RMS 1999 996

Looking at a 996 that has a rear main seal that has some seepage. Apparently its not leaking very much, but I need to budget for it or ask questions. I've searched the achieves, and threads range from data suggesting to stay away from 996's all together to just driving them with minor leaks and living with it. I have an 86 3.2 Cab for pleasure use and its never leaked a drop, but I guess I'm spoiled. I'm now looking for a daily driver and hope a 996 will not be a costly mistake. The 996 has about 30K miles. Any advice would be appreciated.

Seepage (not dripping, but sweating) of the RMS on any car is not uncommon and many do so for all eternity. It is not necessarily a sign that the seal will give out completely or cause any dripping of oil in the future. Check the history of the car to see if the seal has ever been replaced. It is also very common for the oil that leaks from the cam cover on the front side of bank one will find it's way down the engine and drip from the area where the RMS would. I know of 2 cases where the tranny was pulled to replace the RMS and it was bone dry. Turned out the oil was from the top of the engine. This cover (and the one for bank 2) has a habit of leaking and it has an easy fix too.

An RMS leak isn't too big of a deal. Just wait until you need your clutch replaced, and have the RMS done at the same time - you'll save lots of money.

is a PPI really essential?

The new RMS fix . seems to be working out real well,

Find another 996 without any history of a leaking RMS, there are plenty of them out there. You already know this car has a potentially serious $$$ problem so why make it your own?

well, what if the car in question is priced right? like 10K below private party.

Is that where they change the RMS and the auxilary seal ? That's what's happening to my car this week. Dealership said it wasn't apparent at time of PPI.

I think the latest is the Cayenne seal...

Check RMS history by looking up warranty history and calling local dealers around. If it's a repeat RMS, I'd steer clear. Otherwise, I'd duct 2-3k off of the value. Also, get a PPI to be sure all the leaks are checked out. Other prone failure inclue MAF, coolant tank, manual tranny, rattles.

If it's 10 k below private party value just buy it and put 4k aside for a 4 new rms's!

Any 996 you buy no matter the year might develope a RMS leak. I agree with the guy that said wait till it needs a clutch and replace both at that time. Same labor cost parts are cheap.

Under 10k? I'm thinking it's going to need a lot more than an RMS fix.

I would get a PPI and check the history of the car to see if the RMS is a reoccuring issue. If it checks out then just buy the car and get the RMS fixed. Hope things work out, good luck.

RMS discussions should be against forum rules, seems like we get a post a day..

RMS discussions should be against forum rules, seems like we get a post a day...(writes Eli) AND devalue our cars as a consequence! Seriously, sometimes I do think reading about everyone's failures--car wise, that is--is depressing and creates anxiety. Figure this: how many people do you know personally that have wrecked their car in 2005? How many were in a wreck with their 996 on this list in 2005? See what I am getting at? Geert P.S. For all non-paying members: they treat you differently on this list if you haven't joined! Believe me, I posted 100 times before I did!

Maybe at some point Porsche will put some real engineering talent to work on the problem and fix it. Up to now my guess is they have been giving the issue to the some guy just out of school.

All p-cars at some point in their life leak oil...learn to live with it or buy another car

None of the 5 Corvettes I owned over 30 years ever leaked oil. Of course that was when GM had real engineers like Argus Zundov. Now that they are almost in chapter 11 oil leaks are the least of their worries.

This is an old porsche saying_"if it doesn't leak any oil, then it must not have any."

I checked with the dealer and there is no history with RMS warrranty repair to the car I'm looking at. I assume this is a good thing?

Good thing. Also, do not accept some people's claim that Porsche's all burn or leak oil. This is so far from the truth. Many of those that say so, do so in order to help them sleep at night. You should leak no oil and burn an unmeasurable amount between oil changes.

Unless the true cost of an RMS repair (i.e. engine replacement) is already factored into the price you should walk away. Porsche built 150,000+ model 996s so you have plenty of other trouble-free examples to choose from.

I have a bit of leakage, but don't really care. I have other cars where if it's not leaking oil it's a sign that there is no oil left ;-) I don't really think it's necessary for a car to be perfect. Keith

if it makes you guys feel any better, my car has never had an RMS leak (yeah a couple engine fires, but hey, fire is alot cooler looking than an rms leak ) not to say i don't sympathize with those that have had it.. the fact is.. with the internet now, MANY people do research on the internet and are very aware of RMS.. and because of this, with so many porsches out there to choose from.. having an RMS is like having herpes.. you're stuck with it the rest of yourlife (or as long as you have the car, as herpes as far as i'm aware can't transmit to vehicles) if you had the choice to date and potentially form a relationship with two individuals that had the exact same qualities as eachother, BUT one had herpes, which one would you choose to form a relationship with? of course, one can relate this to potential buyers that see the RMS in the service records and determining if they choose to buy a vehicle WITH or WITHOUT RMS... and from what it seems, cars with RMS are going for less than cars without RMS... so thus, essentially you are indeed paying for porsche's faulty manufacturing.. maybe not more than a few hundred dollars at a time, but when selling it... it can add up to several thousand dollars of having to eat due to not being able to find a buyer that will buy your vehicle at the asking price due to rms... just mho...

I don't see the analogy with Herpes... RMS is not forerver.. it's just until it's fixed. It took me 3 months of hard looking to find the exact spec of car that I wanted in great condition that was accident free. Something like RMS issue isn't a deal breaker. Keith

once rms happens the first time, most all the posts i've seen, continue to indicate that it happens over and over and over again for the life of the engine... then there are those that have never had it, 80,000 miles and probably won't ever have it.. once RMS is diagnosed, it's a forever tainted and future RMS engine.. just look at the stats on the polls... that's how i relate it to herpes.. it may not always be there.. but it does show up every once in awhile once you get it

Oh my gawd...this is just getting worse every day! Now I'm having to read that there are a 150,000 herpes strikken 996's leaking all over the world. Its like the army of pestulent albinos that besieged Charlton Heston in Omega man. It used to be cool to drive a 911. People only bitched about getting frostbite in their car on winter mornings.

WHAT? I can get FROSTBITE in my 911 on a winter morning? This is just going from bad to worse!!!!! ;-) Keith

I'm now leaning towards a 993 or 03-04 M3. What I've read on the 996 RMS issue is all over the map and has really turned me off the car. Funny thing though, a 1999 996 coupe 30000 miles is worth several thousand less than a 1995 993 coupe with 35-40000 miles from what I'm finding.

AHEDAU - if you think the cost of maintaining a 993 is less than a 996, you have a surprise in store for you. The 993 is a BEAUTIFUL car, but it has high maintenance costs of its own. Go onto their forum and read all of the maintenance, rebuild, and repair posts. Another thread killed by RMS paranoia - time to log off and go to bed...

That's unfortunate, all previous model 911s have their own set of issues that can be just as costly to repair. Just like when purchasing the model 996 you have to perform due-diligence or you can end up with a real money-pit. The earlier models are no different.

My 99 996 developed the RMS leak at around 15,000 miles. Dealer replaced the seal. It started leaking again at 25,000; dealer replaced the engine. It now has 55000 miles with no further problems. I would worry more about the transmission. My car has suddenly developed a totally inability to shift into 4th gear. All it will do is grind. My experience tells me that it acts like a synchro failure. Here's the interesting part - the tranny, per Porsche, is not rebuildable - just replaceable. Of course it's out of warranty so too bad for me. So instead of replacing the bad synchro, P wants me to buy a new tranny. They asked me if I was hard on the transmission. I asked, "What's hard?" If you mean do I drive the car in a spirited manner, the answer is heck yeah!" They explained that the transmission wasn't designed for that. Oh - I should have known that I guess - a $80,000+ sports car wasn't designed to ACTUALLY be driven that way. Stupid me...Last Porsche!

This may be true, but what does it really mean? Sure, you can find a less well cared for 996 with higher mileage and compare it to a pristine early 993 with less mileage (per year) and find a similar price. You can also find pristine, low mileage early 996's selling for considerably more than an average condition late model 993. If you plan to actually drive the car, you need to consider the 996 is more comfortable, lighter, faster, handles better, stops quicker, has better climate control, more modern interior, etc., and the list goes on. 993 values are going to always be higher than 996 simply because fewer were built. There were far more 996's sold than 993's. Why does one buy such a car? As an investment ? If so, cars that have seen use as drivers are poor investments. Or to enjoy the experience of owning and driving a very unique high performance sports car? In this case, either car will reward you with many miles of unique pleasure. Sure, you have to budget for maintenance, but that is simply part of the price of admission. There is no such thing as a maintenance free high performance car.

Jason, just wondering what you drive? I don't hear about the 993's grenading randomly as I've read on the 996 board. Maybe I'm wrong.

hey now, i think my herpes analogy makes perfect sense.. i've never had rms, so i have no internal bias.. but once you got it with your engine, you got it forever on that engine... it does show up once in awhile, just like herpes, and then goes into hiding... and just like rms 996s, about 1/4 of people have it..

when buying a used 996, i think we can all agree it comes down to this.. CPO is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to look for in a used vehicle.. infact, i'd pay twice as much as the original dealer cost for the "CPO extended warranty" for a used 996.. as i think many here would as well for the peace of mind... and/or have $15,000 stashed away in the case of a major failuire... engine, tranny, gearbox, etc... not saying it will happen.. BUT this is an expensive car, and these things can happen, and with some reasonable probability, during the ownership of your out of warranty vehicle, over several years, most likely something major will happen.. if you don't have $15,000 handy to cover the costs of a major repair and the porsche is your daily driver, and your credit is shot, and/or you don't have a CPO available, then don't buy one... if you do, then all the power to you, and enjoy the 996, and drive it like ya stole it.. :>

Other than 996's bought at a Ford dealership, I have heard of NO 996's "grenading randomly" Comments like this are stupid, especially when you can't back them up.

when replacing my second engine when the cylinder came out of it's sleeve lining.. the engine didn't come from a ford dealership thank you very much

I've spent hours on this site researching RMS and engine failure, and my interpretation is that the engines can fail at any time on the 99-2002 models. Low mileage or not. Thats unacceptable.

Well, if you read the forum, you must know that there have only been a few claims of engine failure for the 996. If you are claiming that a leak of the RMS is an engine failure, then the numbers increase slightly as it does for all production cars. It hardly means that there is a problem with the 996's. No model car, of any manufacturer has ever been exempt from an occasional car crapping out. If you are that perenoid, you might consider a bicycle. I assume that you found no record of engine failure with the 993? If you didn't, do your research again.

That's extremely overstated. Some cars have RMS issues, but that isn't an engine failure, it's a small oil leak, and it can be fixed. Some people have had engine failures, but it's not epidemic.

So buy a 993. But don't base the decision on what you see on he boards, that's hardly scientific, anecdotal at best. Enjoy the 993 they're great cars.

It is true that 993's have their share share of issues as well. I owned a 1996 993 C4S. When I was shopping for the car, I knew about the potential of getting a CEL resulting from clogged secondary air passages or the possibility of valve guide wear. That being said, when I shopped for a 993 I looked at a bunch (20+) of cars. Not one of them had a replacement engine or any engine work. Many on this board that downplay the engine problems of the 996 are turning a blind eye to the magnitude of the problem. I think that they are relating their own fortunate experience and are not aware of all the problems others are having. I have looked at almost 30 996's over the last three months and 26 of them either had RMS issues or had replacement engines. I could give you links right now to nice cars on ebay that I have inquired about (all with low miles) that have had a replacement engine or RMS issues. I am finding that when it comes to 996's the odds are that it's not a matter of "if" you will have an RMS issue but a matter of "when". The RMS and "grenading" issues should be a big concern for 996 and 997 owners. It is happening. Although there may no official survey (and there never will be since you can bet your *** Porsche would never sanction one) those of us in the market interested in a good 996 see the large number of cars with these issues. Maybe the statement that "I wouldn't own a Porsche without a warranty" (which we hear on this board all the time) says something about the shift in buyer attitudes that will define how Porsche builds cars in the future. Maybe Porsche (and the new generation of buyers) has adopted the old GM attitudes of accepting planned obsolescence.

Either you do not believe a word of what you just said, or you are not the brightest bulb on the tree. Why would someone who is so absolutely sure that a car will someday "grenade" be out looking to buy that exact car? Am I missing something here?

Maybe I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree (but I think you have to PAY for a membership to insult paying members).... I am looking for a newer car that is under warranty and, therefore, I wouldn't be concerned about potential issues. I would beome one of those people who would only own a Porsche unde warranty. My frustration with Porsche comes from the historical trend of many people keeping their P-cars cars for years after the warranty expires. That may not be a good move for 996 and 997 owners. Also, many beginners get into P-cars by buying a used one and moving up. That may be too risky in the future when looking at 996's and 997's. I hope that clears things up.

Your mixing apples and oranges when comparing RMS to engine failure. While RMS may occur on a high percentage of 996s, it truly is not a major repair in expense or problems it may cause. However I haven't seen anything that would demonstrate a high percentage of engine failures. Porsche replaced alot of engines for RMS issues for purposes of "research" and on cars out of spec, or with repeated RMS.

It's true that RMS issues and engines blowing up are different issues. In the cars I looked at, 2 had engines replaced due to catastrophic failure. I'm just saying that the failures seem unusually high. But, it's not my place to say. I don't have a dog in this fight so I'll stay out of this discussion.

So, you looked at 30 cars, 26 of which had RMS problems, and 2 which had catastrophic engine failure? That sampling produces a 87% RMS failure rate, which is over double that of the RMS poll https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/122111-update-poll-for-rms-leaks-please-report-your-status-including-mileage-and-model-year.html on this forum, (279 respondents) which showed 40% RMS failures (which, admittedly IS embarassingly high). Your sampling produces engine replacements for 1 car of every 15, while the poll indicates engine replacements due to RMS for 1 car of every 35. Also, these replacements are not due to "grenading", but rather, out-of-spec RMS issues. I find the results of the poll to reflect more accurately the true percentages of these issues. The number of catastrophic failures for 996 engines that I have seen posted on the various boards over the years is really quite small. (There were quite a few 2.5L Boxster engines that required replacement due to bad castings and slipped cylinder sleeves, but these were limited to a specific production run.) As always, YMMV.

Mike how goes it? Haven't seen you post in quite a while, nice to see a few of the original 996 board members still posting. I agree with you about the tranny, what braniac came up with a non-rebuildable tranny??? But there is some good news, there are places starting to rebuild the 996 trannies, one of them advertises in Excellence frequently. Might be worth a call. Might be my last Porsche too unless the new TT is really special. That new Z06 is looking real good, not to mention the Ford Gt and Hemi Mopars...it's like I'm a teenager all over again.

Kevin, I said I was going to stay out of this but one more time... There is the possibility that these cars are for sale because of the problems they experienced. Maybe people who feel comfortable with the RMS problems are keeping their cars and the people who do not are selling them. Just one take on the situation. Then again, perhaps since I was inquiring about cars with attractive prices the RMS issue was reflected in the asking price. Who knows?

I guess the bottom line is that I want a fairly late model luxury/sports car and expect it to be reliable. At bare minimum, the engine should last with proper servicing and absence of abuse. This is not much to expect is it? My 81 SC cost me nothing but tires and oil changes in the 4 years I owned it. My 86 3.2 has cost me nothing but oil changes and a bushing in 3 years. I have no fear of red-lining it -ever- as an engine replacement is the last thing on my mind. If I were to buy a 95 993, I would have no concerns over engine issues. Same goes for an M3 or an SC430 or several other cars I'm considering that can easily go 200K without causing one to become nervous about an engine overhaul. I don't think I'm the one who is promoting negativity towards the 996. I came to this section looking for advice, and I am greatful for certain feedback. The problem is as I hope you can appreciate, the feedback, and the archieves is quite confusing and conflicting. PS-I already have a bike. (and 4 cars) :-)

I have had my SC'd 996 for 7 years and have not spent a dime on anything but tires. Even my brakes are original. Oh, I put a new clutch in because of my increased power, but that's it. Burn no oil, leak no oil.

You know what? You've convinced me. I'm putting my 996 up for sale tomorrow.

Hi Doug, I haven't posted here since probably '02 sometime! As one of the first members of this site, it seems weird that it's been so long! You are indeed right about the Z06; I've really enjoyed the Porsche but it clearly is way over its head when up against the current version of chevy's sports car - hard as that may be to admit (and I've hated them all my life). Even the standard model will run and hide from my 996. At the track (Lime Rock) last year, a friend at work with the earlier and totally stock (400HP) ZO6 ran off and left me on the straights and continued to pull away in the twisties! But I loved the Porsche overall and it did respectably well with the computer add-on and headers/exhausts that bumped the HP 30 over stock. You may remember that I posted all the dyno and dragstrip timing slips (12.87) right here! Wonder if they're still in the archives? Gosh - seems so long ago! Wonder if that 30HP was the cause of my tranny problems. If so, that's pretty sad. In the old muscle car days we bumped the power by 100HP+ with no tranny mods and none of those detroit trannies ever complained! Why, I remember when... Good info about the tranny - thanks. Hope you're doing well!

Mike, I do remember those 12 second quarters, I was/am very impressed. Headers and exhaust are hot rodding 101. I'll try and find your mods in the archives, might be too long ago , which headers did you use?

I drive a 964 RS-A that had a rear main seal fail at ~60k miles. How often do you see or hear of catastrophic failures with the 996? I've noticed them with about the same frequency as the 964 and 993, i.e. not that often but they do happen. Sooner rather than later the majority of 993s will have problems with premature valve guide failure and clogged SAI ports. Roughly half the 964s were made without head gaskets but they don't all leak and not all 993s will fail their emissions testing at 45k miles. The cost to repair either problem is about what the dealer cost is for a rebuilt 996 (which is only slightly less than what the dealer cost for a rebuilt 964/993 engine was only two years ago). This past summer dealer cost for a rebuilt 996 was ~$5800USD, two years ago the 964/993 engines were ~$7800USD. When you are buying any model of 911 there are certain issues that you need to look out for. And if you do find a problem the price should reflect that, if not look elsewhere. There are plenty of problem free 964s, 993s and 996s to choose from.