IMS upgrade in California

My 2001 has 42k miles (Drive about 20k a year- purchased as 2nd owner in 2008 with only 17k) Was thinking of having the IMS bearing replaced or upgraded when I hit 50k this year. 3 questions: 1. If you had the extra money, would you do this? 2. Do you have suggestions for an independent in Northern Calif. to replace the IMS. 3. Would you replace it with: a. new oem bearing b. ceramic hybrid bearings like those used in LN Engineering's IMS Upgrade c. single-row bearing IMS Thanks Scott

1, yes and i am 2 ,Sorry no Im on the worng coast. 3, I am going with the ceramic, becasue the actual cause of the problem has not proven to be identified So we are going to do the "man" thing and over engineer it. I am also hearing people that had the engine replaced with a creat porsche engine with "all the upgrades" are also having failures AGAIN. Now recent I have heard Porsche has made a new chain tensioner for the chain that is on the IMS and it does not put as much pressure on the chain. My car has 103K on it. In a few weeks it is going in for the ceramic bearing, vario cam chains and tensioners, and the guy that is doing the work is trying his hardest to talk me into cracking the case and installing the other bearing on the ims. This will also allow us to change the tensioner you can not get to unless you crack the case. I think this is the route I am going to go.

What did they give for a cost estimate for the whole job?

I was speaking with Beck's Porsche here in Phx and the cost is around $1700.

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thats about right. But you might as well do the clutch too. add another 600 for that kit. No add'l labor.

By spending that money does that eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) the chances of the awful IMS fiasco that so many fear?

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Understand that there are probably not enough "IMS upgrades" that have been completed to be able to answer your question with any amount of certainty. The premise is that it should "greatly reduce" the potential of failures due to the IMS [edit] issue .

There is no "OEM bearing". Porsche does not offer an IMS bearing, just an entirely "updated" IMS shaft that requires full engine disassembly to install. Your 01 engine already has a single row IMS bearing, the majority of 01 engines do.

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Its yet to be proven. But my research tells me the ceramic bearing gives you a lot better chance. If you are over 80K on the clock you should really drop the engine and do the internal bearing and all the tensioners with the upgraded tensioner on the ims chain. Failure of any of the tnesioners can give the same result as the IMS failre. It is my understanding at 100K they are pretty well worn. But I have yet to see this for my self. I will report back

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Thanks Jake. If I was closer to Georgia, there would have been no need for question 2.

Is there any recomendation on who can do the IMS upgrade in Australia? Has any Aussie had the upgrade done? And if so what was the cost in Australia? Thanks

I have a 997 but an early '05 with the 996 single-row bearing. If it were to need a clutch I might consider adding the LN bearing, but I won't spend ~$2K just to put in the bearing, because as has been stated many times, there are several other parts that can fail and result in the need for a new engine. Since I wouldn't own a European car without an extended warranty because of the many other expensive things that go wrong (years of experience with BMW, Volvo and M/B, extended warranties paid me back in some cases 2-3X their cost) I will probably just leave it to chance. If my engine fails I will put in one of Jake's completely remanufactured engines with all the beefed-up internals, even if I have to pay up the difference between what it costs and whatever the warranty authorizes. There's no right or wrong answer to this question, just a matter of each individual's own decision.

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bearing install only - right? (and as stated new clutch if you provide the parts)

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Including the bearing? I recall that is around $600. Can we get pictures of the rebuild and parts so we can all take a look at it?

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the big cost is the flywheel. it'll be more than $600 i believe. nearly double? if you are in there, might as well get it all replaced.

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Of course you are correct. Bad choice of words on my part. Changed original post to read ".... due to IMS issue ."

I think that everyone of us who have not Approved Porsche Warranty, should upgrade the bearing... But there is another important question too: You have to know that you are the one and only responsible person about your engine improvement. What I mean is: You can upgrade the IMS, OK! and... what would happen if your engine blowns 2 months later?? Are you going to kill your mechanic? Are you going to demand LN/Raby ? They give you a warranty only if the IMS upgrade is made by them. Think that a M96 engine could breakdown due to several reasons, not only the IMS bearing. I'm going to do it. My mechanic will be purchasing the retrofit kit from "Flat 6..." just when I'd be able to afford it (in Spain we have a great economic crisis) and them, I know that I'll probably never get my engine blown caused by IMS bearing, but I am one of the most carefully users who change the engine oil every 5.000 miles and all the filters, always use the car till the oil temperature is perfect to work efficiently, and never turn the engine off till It would recover the normal oil temperature. Besides, I never drive it under 2800 rpm, change the coolant every 2 years, never track the car, use an approved 5w50 synthetic oil ... Is my engine go to blown someday? Who knows it... Perhaps It will have a cylinder issue, or an oil/coolant mix.... who knows... What I know is that I believe in Jake Raby, and I'm well informed about M96 engines to be aware what we have. Nevertheless, the point of view of a Porsche Specialist is very different from owners. My mechanic told me: If I do the retrofit work, we need: - oil drain - down engine - check clutch condition, and perhaps change it - install retrofit IMS bearing - new oil filters... All these works are close to 2500-3000$ So, we are spending 1/3 of a new engine cost to reinforced it, but not sure It will be the complete solution. A new engine come with new waperpump, alternator, etc I think that, if your car has more than 60.000 miles it would be better to do the complete upgrade and dismantle the engine to check all the parts and replace all you'd need. Engines with low mileage as mine (23000 miles) are "young enough" to be improved only with retrofit kit M96 engines are not the best porsche creation...

Back to the OP's second question: Any shop recommendations in northern Cal to do this upgrade?

Tillman's Engineering is doing my IMS retrofit right now. I would recommend them as they are very knowledable with all Porsche issues and are very trustworthy. I have been going there for years. They are located in Santa Rosa, Ca

Thanks CAguy I needed a local California wrench for the upgrade

Scott, anyone who can change a clutch on a 996, should be able to handle this upgrade with no issues. It's an extra 10 minutes of their time.

Anyone knows which shop can do a best and good price job for this IMS upgrade in LOS ANGELES area? i just bought a 996, so i want to do it asap, thanks guys.

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Is GMG Racing near you?

thanks garrett, the GMG Racing is only 10 miles away from my location. how much they charge for the IMS upgrade job?

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Not sure what they'll charge you, but in my dealings with them, as well as others I know who race with me, it's been a very positive experience having them do things or buying their products.

sheatley, if you're still open to input on doing the IMS; I wouldn't do it if it were my own car, in fact I didn't when I did a clutch in my last C2 about a year ago. I also find it interesting that IMS failures were almost unheard of a few years ago, before an "upgrade" part was manufactured and marketed. I remember issues of cylinder D chunking and cracked heads (the latter I think is far more common an issue btw), and broken cats and the like being the conversation topics back then, though honestly none of these problems seem common in the real world. Here's my justification for not doing the bearing, you will spend a non trivial amount of money, just to cover your bases for one of the "what if" scenarios. A used engine can be had for $4-6k today, is spending $2k on your engine now really financially smart, just in case? Also, the IMS is not the only part whose failure would result in something very unpleasant. There's the wheel bearings, tie rods, steering coupler(s), so on. I didn't do it on my own car, and I don't plan to advise any customers or friends to do this in the future either, but hey to each his own. If it'll put your mind at ease for whatever reason, that is certainly a very real benefit, and if the ~$1-2k cost is justifiable to you, then it's a simple choice.

Ahmet, After my initial post some weeks ago, I have been moving more into the direction you reference. Playing the odds, my engine will more than likely not blow up soon. With the possibility of wasting money now on buying another warranty or do the IMS replacement, using the engine replacement option is looking like a better choice.