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YOUR RESEARCH996 C4 spanking a 335CI twin turbo
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Fill with snorting bulls (proud p
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I think It's almost the opposite, ya know more like a yuppie (BMW) walking into a Bullpen filled with snorting bulls (proud P.
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It's far from underpowered, but it's being tested against a car in a different class.
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For the price of a new M3 you can buy a very good condition used 996 GT3...so when you say people who buy bimmmers can't afford a Porsche is BS.
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Granted, he spent a great deal of money for that power (about as much as used high-mileage 996 Turbo), but you know what, he preys on your type to see the look on your face.
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The Mahindra, used when you want to appear that you are a good green global citizen or actually working, your Dad's Chrysler, which he lets you use when you are going out on a date, I know it has a very spacious back seat.
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i have to, several at the 1/4 track.. 2 and 4 doors, some even with mods... they think they are sooooo fast out the box, untill i show them its not...
lol "close call, bit quicker, not by much" im preety sure that was like 3 car length atleast, its close when its half a car...
That BMW is only putting out 300hp stock, and I would assume is heavier.
I just can't understand why almost every BMW is underpowered. They use the same 300hp engine in the 535i which is even heavier. And of course the prior M3 had all of 333hp, which always seemed anemic to me.
They had a rolling start. If it were standing start 0-60, the 335 should take it and I bet it would be
very
close at that turning point at the end of the track. Also, they didn't say how much each of the people weighed. Obviously, that should be taken into account...
ALSO, the CI is the heaver convertible, no? At 3946 lbs, I'm more impressed that it kept up that close to the 3300ish lbs C4S... So although I love my X51 C4S, "spanking a 335CI" is a bit overstated... quite a
bit
overstated...
300 hp and 300 ftlb is underpowered? This is a sub $50K use every day four seater here. My wife has a 335 coupe. It does feel a bit slower than my 996 c2, but not much.
It is a bigger car and about 500 lbs heavier. I'd say it does really well.
Ah yes,.... different forum same stuff. You see the same type of comments with similar experiences and generalizations on the BMW forums except from the alternate point of view. I kinda of chuckle at both.
300 or 333 hp is not exactly anemic...especially considering our 996s are in that power range too, albeit lighter then the E9X variant 3s. (How about 420hp???) I will say the new 3s kinda are pigs, but with 420hp (in the M3), I can assure you not all are "anemic". Even despite needing to be on a diet, they are well balanced and handle very well. ... Since I frequent both this and the BMW forums (and as an owner of each), I always find myself defending one or the other. They are both great cars. (I will say there are more fanbois on the BMW sites, however).
Underpowered? The Bimmer gets to 60 in less than five seconds. It's far from underpowered, but it's being tested against a car in a different class. Honestly, it's like complaining that the rear seats in the Porsche aren't as big as the Bimmer's.
...and five years ago it cost about twice what the 335 does now.
Were there even two people in the Porsche like there were in the Bimmer?
+1
lol, with the exception of the last few posts, the posts in this thread are retarded.
The 535i is a mid sized quasi luxury sedan that runs pretty well. If you want more power, you get a 550 or M5.
BMWs are not underpowered.
I don't get it, this is something that teenagers do. Let's be honest, I can get my 85 yr old grandma to do this. Where is the skill? What's the point? Take it on the track with curves, braking points and such and see what each respective driver can do in their respective cars.
sush i dont wanna hear excuses... always the excuses...
1/4 Track is just as much skill as a curcuit... just because you own a porsche does not make you any better, so dont act like you can track like a pro, coz you are not... and your 85 year old grandma cant do it, trust me... the point is straight line power, are you dumb?
+1
Push pedal to floor, hold wheel straight (no need to shift if auto/tip)
I always thought this when I autocrossed my '88 VW Jetta back in the early 90's and would beat people who would show up in Trans Am's or something similar.
I spent some time at a 1/4 mile track with a car club and there were several v8 M3's , vettes, Mustang cobras, TT's, even a Lambo. 1 99 996 bone stock consistently beat every Bmw, and most of the BMW's had programing and exhaust work but the drivers could not put the power to the ground . Porsche consistenly did 13.2,3 with no tire spin, Porsche TT,s were doing mid 12,s. There was a supercharged 997 only got 13.2 once, mostly did 13.5 or worse due to tire spin.
But those v8 bmw,s did sound sweet.
That was a pretty close race. The bimmer having more torque(turbo spool)should have done better from a rolling start than the P car. Standing start the C4 will have a better launch. Don't forget to take aero dynamics into the equation. At high speed it make a difference and the P car is sleek.
OK I see a few posts stating it was a C4S...it's not an S but a stock C4.
I'm surprised to find so many RL's defending the BMW.
As far as I'm concerned the 2 brands attract a total opposite type of person, BMW drivers are yuppies with Porsche envy
A BMW is the Volks Wagon version of a Porsche (and don't even get me started on Audi...)
Having lived in Holland for 21 years I can give you the European perspective... the only reason you buy a BMW is because you can't afford to buy a Porsche
And if it's the size, comfort, power etc. package you're after then you'd get a Mercedes, although now with the Panamera that's also covered by Porsche.
I see kids on the track with 500hp Honda's who beat anything on the clock but they would trade it for a slower Porsche in a heart beat!
In the end Porsche falls in the category of dream machines with the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini etc, just more practical and without the debilitating maintenance cost
Porsche...there is no substitute!
My fellow Canadian...you are obvioulsy passionate about Porsche based on your comments. I love my P car too and bought a C2 instead of the M3 but your comments are a little bias.
1. For the price of a new M3 you can buy a very good condition used 996 GT3...so when you say people who buy bimmmers can't afford a Porsche is BS.
2. Porsches aren't in the same league as the Lambos anb Ferraris. If they are in the same league, would you trade your P car for a Lambo? I would in a heart beat.
Your Porsche cab is no more practical than a Lambo or Ferrari...just more affordable. Bimmer fans can say the same about you buying a Porsche because you can't afford a Lambo.
Peace out.
Jake, your absolutely right!
That said, I am lucky enough to have several nice toys one of the is a Ferrari Modena 360.
Trust me the Porsche is more practical... as to the BMW versus Porsche when I grew up (not having much money) everyone and their dog had a BMW (me included) but only those with a certain income and age had a Porsche.
However like you said (if you've got money) there's some nice BMW like the 6 series or even for it's time the 8.
cheers,
Sid.
the 335i puts out *more* than 300hp... as documented by car and driver... so the 300hp is underrated...
I'm afraid the original poster is right... cause if you own a 996 GT3 you probably own another daily and/or winter car..
m3 owners buy the car cause its a better combo/daily than a 911... there is *some* truth to affordability...
1/4 track skill applies when you are on a real track with real muscle cars. I hardly qualify a 996 or BMW a muscle car. The funny thing is that the one who will look dumb is obviously yourself when the cops catch you for drag racing at a stop light. The typical teenage behavior that you seem to be into. You are an obvious expert at this; as a matter of fact, I would be willing to bet you that your first time out at a DE event you would quickly realize the amount of skill required to navigate a car at full speed. I would recommend you take your little Mahindra so that you don't permanently wound your pompous little pride.
No way!!!!
Man I feel so eehhhrr what's the word... stupid!
I really thought that the C4S was more powerful than a C4...
How come that in the owners manul the C4S is listed separately from the C4, C2 etc. or for that matter why is there 2 designations if they are both the same
Are you absolutely sure about this Zookie?
Thanks for the heads up.
Cheers,
Sid.
Are you serious?? This is the silliest post I have read on RL. I must be schizophrenic, since opposite types of people buy either BMW or Porsches....... I would venture to say the reason, so many Rennlister's are defending BMWs is because they have a BMW in their garage in addition to a Porsche and realizie, it is a fine marque also.
My 335i was almost as fast as my C2. It was better in some ways, but worse in others. Which is expected as they are completely different cars with different purposes.
As for the C4 and C4S: in the 996 variety, there are no engine differences between the two. The difference is that the C4S is a Turbo look car, whereas the C4 is not. C4S also has Turbo suspension and brakes. Otherwise there are no major differences. [as noted many times, there was no "S" version of the 996 where "S" means more power, and that includes the C4 variety. You could get more power, just not an "S"
e.g., X51]
-td
ok ok okkkkk i happen to be the Fastest in my Group at Mosport, a track you could not handle... and im preety sure i happen to also have more skills than you at a DE event... and i would recommend you cheak your Texan attitude hillbilly before you hurt you self typing, trust me bubba... and dont talk **** about my Mahindra :P with that typical old fart behaviour you seem to be into... I know you cant drive at a drag strip or a DE event thats why you starting to throw a hissy fit... go home with your Silver
aww thats cute, feel good about yourself now? you must be the baddest E-Thug, arent you...
Sid,
Within the 996 family, the C4 is a narrow body like the C2. The C4S is a wide body like the Turbo and the GT2.
There are a total of 15 variants of the 997 911 and only 5 of them are N/B cars.
In the 997.... only the C2, C2S and the GT3 are narrow body cars.
The C4, C4S, Targa 4, Targa 4S, Turbo, GT3 RS and the GT2 are all wide body cars.
Wow - "slay" videos and p*ssing matches.... This reminds me of those dodge neon forums where they brag about beating carerras. I thought Rennlist was different.
Judging by the stable of vehicles you possess I would be very surprised if you were not the fastest. Let's see, a C4, probably the fastest 911 around any track, especially Mosport, which I am sure you have seen in post cards. The Mahindra, used when you want to appear that you are a good green global citizen or actually working, your Dad's Chrysler, which he lets you use when you are going out on a date, I know it has a very spacious back seat. Your Mom's Passat when she sends you to the grocery store, and your Sister's VW bug, which I am sure suits your persona to the tee. Have I missed anything? Please continue to enlighten us Rennlisters to the majesty of your talents in street drag racing.
lol haha i could care less, you are just entertainment for me, helps my post count go up... besides those are mine, bubba... this is jokes... sooo easy to intemidate you guys down there
and since you judge people on their stable of cars... im glad you made it to a Porsche after all these years working so hard in yoru life
, better enjoy it...
im excited for your reply in the AM, looking forward to it... g nite
PS: how old are you? talking about Mom's and Dad's... must make you feel real badass, eh bubba?
Hey...what happened, you found someone else to play with?
If we're going to judge people by their stable... why don't you do it with someone like me.
That (stable) would be in my toys gallery, since it sounds like you're "a good old boy" I should probably stipulate that the women in the other photo galleries are not considered rides...
well at least not transportation and for that matter neither am I...OK eehhr, that may actually depend on which of the women you ask, I might be considered a stud or a donkey, hey maybe I do fall under "transportation".
Lets not put others down to raise ourselves up shall we (except for BMW's comparing themselves to Porsche's, they're free game!).
Sid.
Actually yes at 16:37
http://www.moon-phases.net/calendar/...th=2&year=2010
http://www.life-cycles-destiny.com/dw/20012010.htm
My car is faster than all your cars ha ha
And if that's not good enough I'll whop up on ya'll with my 8+ second 1/4 mile GSX-R1000 that'll do 60-100mph in 4 seconds lugged down in 6th gear. It goes to 100mph in 1st gear LOL so 4 seconds is the slowest offering the bike has. I'm dirty chuckling because it does hehehe. Hell of a ride. I feel like I've had sex for a week straight getting off the bike some times hehehe.
Come on, Tony the Beetle is "highly modified"!!!!
Don't be a bully, pick on someone your age. It's not fair fighting
a 16 year-old
.
Even if he can drive real fast in a straight line.
Look at me, my car can give your car a real big spanking. As a matter of fact, I think I will take this bragging right to my local bank and see if they will give me some money. Or better yet, why not buy myself a badass trophy and glue it to my dash and inscribe something profound like "Baddest of the Baddest in stop light racing". Yeah, I think that's what I am going to do.
remind me not to buy your bike.... ewe
LOL
Yea, I knew about the moon, my wife is Chinese so I am always aware of the moon phases. How did you survice the tsunami? any signs at all?
BTW I am sure my car is slower than yours.... it taks me WAY longer to go around my island than it take you on yours
on my way to work this a.m. from a stop light.... a ford festiva - bone stock, missing one lug nut out of 4 on both wheels I could see.... beat me to the next light............
I'm simply amazed how grown men, let alone educated and seemingly well-off grown men, can get into d!ck measuring contests when they sit anonymously behind a computer under an alias.
I mean, is this what we're all REALLY thinking when we do engage each other face-to-face at meets? I hope not.
In all seriousness, just imagine you two are sitting in a cafe together in front of your wives, girlfriends, buddies, mom/dad, etc. Hold yourself accountable at this level and give the other some semblance of respect and then let it go from there.
Suffice to say... this is entertainment.
P.S. The expression is "couldn't care less" not "could care less" to tell another how little you care about something. A little English language pet peeve of mine.
The tsunami was luckily a dud. Hilo Bay had the water slightly rushing out and back in. Luckily no big waves coming in after the bay half emptied. Lots of people died there in a previous tsunami.
We actually can't navigate the island since the west tip from Dilligham to Yokahama doesn't have a connecting road anymore. Nobody ever figures to fix the road after waves took it out a long time ago. Hawaiian time for sure.
We need to sell cheap nitrous kits so we can see more jack rabbit cars smoking tires and sporting coffee can exhausts.
mmm let me see what Tony Russo is going to do this morning... "First im going to call my buddy up and ask him to post on Rennlist to back me up on the thread, who is goign to edit his post after an hour... Then im goign to post right after him... Then im goign to make another point less refrence about a Bank and Brag about my car and look real bad ***"...
Hey I'm still waiting for Rowdy Russo to start picking on me!
I didn't even know the C4 and C4S had the same engine...
Ill whip my thing out anytime!
Hey lets make it a party...hahahahaa
Don't really know what you did to **** him off (look at him the wrong way?) but I hate arrogant, condescending, "I'm better than you" people!
I got your back Zookie.
Sid.
Hey Pac996, want to trade bikes?
Mine is fasssst (2 stage NOS)
However... my ********* go numb after 30 minutes and I have a soar @ss for a week!
But what a ride!!!
I guess you could say she's a real ball buster.
Sid.
This post has done ONE thing: and that it has helped raise the page view counts for Rennlist so that they can up their advertising rates :-)
Ok folks here's the real intent behind this post.
I am a BMW and MB driver. This is my first Pcar. I live in the city of Boston and BMW 335i and ci's are more common here than Chevy's in Detroit. The thing I have noticed is that every other 335ci driver literally harasses me on the road. They go WOT at stop lights, cut me off on roads, tail gate me on the highway - I mean it is FRIGGIN CRAZY. I do not even bother playing with them.
But it was gratifying to see in this video that if I ever did 'play' I could spank them if I chose to do so.
I'll say this Zookie:
1.Tony didn't ask me to do ****.
2.He was just making the point that it's dumb (and dangerous) to "race" each other like this.
3.Your original response to his post (which BTW, was not directed at you) was a bit exagerated and way too defensive.
4.As far as going fast in a straight line, well any monkey can do that.
5.1/4 mile at competitive (read: pro) level does take considerable skill, I'll admit that much.
6.DE/Autocross/Roadracing takes significantly more skill.
Just chill, bro.
Or go ahead and "race" a BMW, if it makes you feel better.
Would you please stop with correcting everyone all the time!!!
It doesn't make you look intellectual or well educated it just of stinks superiority.
If you've got an opinion, by all means but perpetually correcting our spelling is just plain irritating.
Yeeezzzzzzz give it a rest already!
OMG! WTF - this is a private joke between me and ROK!
He corrected someone earlier and I was doing it in kind to him as a joke for chrissake. Let us be
And not that I need to justify it to you but when else have I been "correcting everyone all the time"
Psycho, thx for having my back, but yea it's in reference to the whole couldn't v. could care less misuse.
My mistake was simply a typo, but was getting grilled for it fraternity brother style.
All right, regarding your exchange I stand corrected.
However there is a few RL's floating around that use this forum to compulsively correct the grammar/spelling and it is my contention that this gentleman is one of those that subject many (including myself) to this.
So if you will, take it as an overall observation.
What was the thread about again... oh yeah right trash talk on BMW's
Dude I'm so confused I don't know if I'm coming or going...
I don't know what the hell anyone is talking about anymore or to whom!
Bartender, I'll take a double of whatever they're having!
"this thered"......are you making fun of my red 966. It's arena red bubbah. Roman arena red for gladiators blood. Not some candy apple red, guards red or other whimpy red
Ahhhh, all is well in the 996 forum when we're bench racing BMW's.
I see nothing shocking in the video. Most BMW owners consider the E46 M3 to be slightly quicker than the 335i and most testing puts the 996 C2 to be titch quicker than the E46 M3.
So why should anyone be shocked that a C4 slightly out accelerates a 335? It's an apples and oranges comparison anyway with a sports car against a sports sedan.
I can't say that I've experienced any of that w/ BMW owners here, but, wow, I'd hate to see the look on your face when a modded 335i runs, not walk, away from you.
There's no replacement for displacement... except
boooooost
! $2200 gets you Dinan Stage 2 software and you've got 384hp/
421tq
and your BMW will still be under the 4yr/50k warranty. And w/o any other visual or audible cues, you would never know a bone stock 335i from a 335i w/ ECU software/increased boost. If I had the funds, I would love to add one of these as a stealthy Qship DD.
If you want to less conservative (i.e. more power) and cheaper routes, there are ECU software options out there that will produce more power for less than Dinan's software.
Anyway, sorry for the sharp digression that's going to happen, but some people are delusional when they want to race you, but some are not, especially the ones that have forced induction.
One of the local guys here has a s/c C6 Vette. When the exhaust flap is open, it sounds like a freaking NASCAR w/ a belt slipping (it's actually the s/c whine). When the exhaust flap closed, it sounds like a bone stock Corvette w/ a belt slipping. It puts down over 700hp to the wheels and it's a REAL sleeper. Any unsuspecting Turbo owner will immediately have a frown when they see a lowly Vette rape them like Donkey Kong.
Another local guy here has a
twin turbo
E46 M3 w/ meth injection. If you didn't see the FMIC, then you would have thought it was just another E46 M3 w/ basic bolt-ons (i.e. exhaust). I believe he is putting down
well
over 600hp to the wheels. Granted, he spent a great deal of money for that power (about as much as used high-mileage 996 Turbo), but you know what, he preys on your type to see the look on your face.
How about a highway pull between that turbo M3 and a
modified
Ford GT[40]:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8um9m...eature=related
It doesn't beat the
modified
GT, but it keeps up pretty well for a BMW, huh...?
Now how about a run w/ something more it's size, like a Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC3Ot_oxbe0
Anyway, simply put, don't be that type -- don't street race. Just smile, wave, ignore, and drive on.
///Michael
Well, I've seen a Volkswagen GTI smoke a Ferrari (on a track)...doesn't mean I want one.
Sorry, no BMW sympathy here. I think some of them are nice looking sedans, but I don't like the way they drive. The interiors don't seem to wear well either.
It's not about money or prestige b/c I'm not into Ferrari or Lambo either. Too high maint. Too fragile.
Porsche is the perfect balance...there is no substitute...for me.
hey... I've raced a 335ci with VISHNU tuning @ mosport... up the back strait @ Mosport we are equal... that's right... equal... I have a 99 C2 with exhaust and GIAC flash... and that's it.... you know what? the incline really punishes the 335ci's portliness... and after a few laps the BWM engine is so hot its not able to make hp in its efficiency range....
335ci are great for the street with the chip... but on the track... game over.
Why are some of you making comparisons to the 335i. Its a great car, but some of you, IMHO, are coming off like playground bullies. Pick on someone your own size! The M3 is a better comparison.
Or maybe the M3 vs the GT3 might be a better comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl...eature=related
No, looks like something in between. Well maybe that's not a fair comparison and perhaps the M3 vs the 996 or 997 Carrera isn't either. Nor is the 335i vs the 996, I think its been said, some of you are comparing apples and oranges.
Don't get me wrong I love Porsches, but there are other very capable cars out there also.
Hypothetically speaking, what if... you can't find somebody your size
I think It's almost the opposite, ya know more like a yuppie (BMW) walking into a Bullpen filled with snorting bulls (proud P. owners, always ready to go) and start slapping some bulls while waving a red flag... RUN YUPPIE RUNNNN
Ooooh come on!!! really!? now we're throwing the station wagon in the mix!!! on the track!!??
I guess we're going from the silly (apples and oranges) to the ridicules (potato's and....) I can't even think of a snappy comparison to appropriately reflect the multitude of levels this is wrong on, eeehr uuuuhm pffeeew... somebody help me before I hurt myself
cause that what this thread is about... !!
go drive a new M3... tell me how you like the uncommunicative steering... the portly weight around the corners and the ****ty brakes that fade (just like in that video)... also the under steer in the M3 sucks as well... how many corners do you think you can take like the guy in the vid while smoking the tires... your tires will last for.. umm ONE whole day on the track...
for feel and composure there is nothing like a 911.. past or present... the GTR? exception to the rule I guess...
I just put the guy in his place...
Thanks but i got this covered, i come across people like him all the time... I feel sorry for them...
1. Yea Sure buddy...
2. How so? its a Air Strip and how is it any diffrent than a Stright at a Track?
3. I just put the guy talking **** in his place... How is that defensive?
4. I wanna see this, put a monkey in one and show me
5. No ones a Pro in this thread, not me, not you and not bubba... so your comment is pointless
6. Compare to what?
Im chilled like a Mocafrap, like i said this is all entertainment to me...
Peace Out
You really are way too caught up in this whole yuppie/bmw thing rather then talking about the capabilities of the cars. Do you have some sort of yuppie complex thing? I would venture to say that the demographics of Porsche owners are not a lot different then BMWs. In fact since Porsches cost a bit more, maybe more yuppie-ish. After all, we can't all be rock stars or star athletes.
wow, how did I miss this thread, three days six pages, wow.
Porsche for me, every second car here seems to be a beemer of some sort, mostly driven by elderly Oriental folks...
I have almost everyday, except when I drive my 996. The M3 is more composed and obviously better balanced. As far as road feel and driver feedback, the 996 is better. Acceleration, power, comfort, fit and finish, the M3 is significantly better. As far as driving pleasure, they are equal, and yet different. Thats why I am a fan of both.
To each his own. Not only that, but I am quite proud of it!
For your viewing pleasure. Looks closely at the second pic. - oops looks like I just passed it. Does not matter. It is only DE, not a race. Please go hang yourself... slowly.
Sorry, I could not resist. All in good spirit. The wagon did an outstanding job but reached its limits. I'll try the C2 this season and give you a fair comparison.
FM
Agreed the M3 is a better comparison. However, you're on the 996 board and comparing the 996 to the E92 M3 is about as fair as comparing the E36 M3 to the 996.
They are different generation vehicles.
On acceleration, braking, handling ,weight, top speed, track times, etc the 996 can best the E46 M3 plain and simple.
How's that joke go.....
What do fat chicks and mopeds have in common? They're pretty cool until your friends catch you on them.
Dude, it may be fast and carry a ton of groceries but it's still a station wagon.
To make matters worse you going to brag about passing an 80's 944 in your wagon?
I'm pretty sure that's a man card violation......
(jk and all in good fun
, I'm sure that wagon is pretty fast)
Agreed, its apples and oranges as I said before. Note, the C&D video clip was a comparison to the 997 Carrera, anyway. Whether you agree with the review or not, BMW offers some excellent vehicles. So enough with the BMW hate fest. If you see the other the video, the Nissan GTR, won the comparison. I personally would rather have the BMW or the Porsche. But that does not mean I going to waste my time slamming the GTR or why it really isn't better then the GT3. Its still an excellent car that many would prefer.
Its okay to debate the cars, even if your point concerning the cars is unfounded, its just that you make it personal when you stereotype the drivers. There are just as many lawyers, Drs. and stockbrokers driving Porsches as BMWs. Are you implying there is something wrong with professional people or their ability to drive performance cars or to enjoy them for the pure sake of driving? When you equate BMWs with yuppies, you do it in a very pejorative manner. I surmise from your pics in your profile, that you are not exactly a professional person working in an office, which is fine, perhaps you are a rock star, fine, we can't all be rock stars or athletes. On the other hand, for those of us who are professionals, work in an office, great, I am proud of what I do too. I suspect I am not alone on this point.
Yes, I noticed. I also noticed that they tested a 345 hp base Carrera against the 420 hp M3 and it almost equaled the heavier BMW's performance (think about how the the 385hp 997S would have fared).
Instead, BMW has proven that if you put a big enough engine in a brick it will fly.....who would have guessed that? Sorry I am a massive fan of the E30 and the E36 M3's, but I think that BMW diluted the e46 and e92 by corrupting the formula with tons of extra weight and luxury features (and they saddled the E46 with mediocre brakes and tons of understeer at the limit). Furthermore, the visual differences between the newer M3's and the plain vanila 3 series are not as dramatic as say the e30 with just makes the newer cars blend in as just another 3 series.
Let's hope BMW will pare at least 500 lbs and return some visual excitement to the next generation M3.
More this;
and less regular 3;
Do I sense a bit of insecurity here...
FYI, I grew up in Europe. To me, wagons and 5 door cars are the standard more than sedans. Actually pretty manly since you can carry a lot of gear in there (we had no pick-ups and few SUVs).
Forget the US wood-paneled cruise boats of the 80s. I'll sign you up for
http://velocityresource.com/default.aspx
FM
A well thought out response +1, the M3 does need to lose weight and get better brake Calibers, but I wouldn't call it a brick. The handling is excellent. More road feel would be nice, which is where my 996 excels. Styling, that is a subjective personal taste matter.
So I take it that indeed this is somewhat an apples to apples comparison as BMW owners seem to assert that BMW is indeed a 'race car' of sorts and so is the 996 - which means in this race the 996 OWNED the 335 - which makes the Porsche much better
Each make has their strong points. I came from the BMW camp before my Porsche. IMHO, BMW's are great starter/learning cars before going to a dedicated performance car. They are fairly well balanced (although newer BMW's are set up to understeer), forgiving and easy to live with cars.
After 6 years autocrossing and tracking my E36, I longed for something a bit more challenging. The Porsche offers much more of the same driving pleasure, tactile response than the BMWs and just brings it to a much higher/enjoyable level. Add the dynamics of the rear engine and you have a car that challenges you to drive your best to extract it's performance. It's actually funny, as I used to think that you couldn't have a more fun car than an M3 until I drove the 996. The sensitivity, feedback and dynamics are just several levels better.
As for status of each make, etc... I don't think about it much. I actually don't like the stigma that a lot of people get when they find out you have a Porsche. Many times, peoples perspective of you change to think your are rich and/or stuck up, to me driving a car this much fun merely due to status is missing the boat.
If BMW would make a car like the E30 or 36 M3 again, I would go back to the brand. It's just that the latest offerings from them are larger and heavier cars which in my eyes, diminish the dynamic fun you can have with them. I have very little desire to drive a 400+hp car that weighs 3600 lbs or more and is a full size car. Just not my cup of tea. A friend of mine has the E92 M3 and it's fast but it's not nearly as fun to drive as the older M3's and no where near as fun as my car.
You will find a large proportion of 996 and 997 drivers upgraded from previously owned M3's
As for the number of M3 owners that came from Porsche.....nah !
Of course you won't find a Porsche owner that upgrades to an M3, because he will eventually upgrade to a minivan.
If I could only have one car, then it would be an M3.
///Michael
So true, an SUV followed my last Porsche.
However an M3 followed after the SUV, my last Porsche was a turd, '75 911S, enough said.
"If I could only have one car, then it would be an M3", absolutely!
But If I have a toy/weekend car, it will be a Porsche.
I went from 3 cars to 1 car at one point and it was a bmw e39.
I find BMW's to be perfect compromise car.
But with a second car available - I think there is no substitute to a Porsche (except now everyone has me worried dealer put in the wrong engine oil).
For all you M3 critics, I probably would still take a GT3RS.....but this is rather compelling, and answers some of your critical points weight, brakes etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7wh2...eature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCzDOpVasHM
Good post. I've had eight BMWs and four Porsches...I agree that sports sedans (BMW variety) and high performance sports cars (Porsche variety) yield different performance and ownership experiences. How satisfied you'll be depends on your needs and expectations.
Dare I say the obvious: the clips on YouTube don't prove anything about BMWs vs. Porsche, nor do they validate or invalidate the performance of either marque.
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/11...e-version.html
See the link for more info, 450Hp and it weigh 3,285 lbs, quite a bit lighter then the regular M3. The main criticism of the M3 has been the weight and brakes, both have been addressed in this GTS version, plus 30Hp to boot. Aesthetics, subjective as always.
997 GT3 RS also is 450 and weighs just over 3000lbs, GT3 is 435hp and 3100lbs. A pretty good matchup. I think I would still take the GT3.
Since this thread seems to be dying, I will troll it up a bit!
I currently own a 996tt, and a 335xi as my DD, so I am in a pretty good spot to comment on the abilities of the 335 with a mild tune and bolt-ons.
Its pretty simple 335 + $2.5k > NA 997 (not s, not gt3),NA 996(not gt3),NA 993,NA 911 at a drag strip. Don't even think about a stoplight pull its not even close. If you throw a curve at the 335 it is another story tho....that is where any 911 variant will take over.
Downpipes, tune, meth and dci put the 335 at or just over 400whp/420tq.
Add some upgraded turbos and you can run with 996tt's, 997tt's, and tuned GTR's. Really.
Here is some nice footage of a 135 (same engine and drive train, but -175lbs) running with a full bolt on 997tt, and a full bolt on GTR
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/gtb...asr-997tt.html
Ha! You're a bit old, perhaps, but I'd guess that I'm older. I think Porsche has always marketed it's car as the 'Turbo,' not as the 'Twin Turbo' or 'TT.' The rear of today's 911 says "Turbo."
And...they've been consistent in badging and marketing their cars as 911s - not 964s. 993s, 996s, etc. You can call today's turbo model a 997tt or anything you want, but in the showroom and on the street, it's a 911 Turbo.
that thing costs $170K USD... a GT3 costs about $125-$130 USD... why would you pay more for a brand new M3 that is unproven when GT3 is king of the road... ?
Didn't look like a spanking to me
I'm stuck on TT meaning Tourist Trophy. Ut's good races especially when you concide the Isle of Mann TT. Man what a race......oops rambling. Anyway yah sure twin turbos but it not like it does much good. Just flogging an under performanced engine. I prefer natural aspirated with truely good performance parts. Turbos are cool but for some of those twin turbos it might as well have a double meaning where tourist trophy is the main name since its a great car for making a tourist think he is great on the road. Yep just another rambling
We are getting bonus points for making this thread longer right?
It was a silly thread from the beginning, as these kinds of threads usually are.
The silliest such threads are those where someone with a video camera (the passenger) in one car films how his car is keeping up with or passing a superior car on a highway. And he talks to his driver about how the other car can't get away as if this is a real competition that means something. It's simply useless drivel and a waste of the internet.
Really? Silly thread? Useless thread? Are you the rennlist police? What threads would you want to keep on this forum?
This thread has created some entertainment, lots of page views (which surely helps Rennlist with advertisers), and some pretty interesting and thought provoking sub topics.
If it's that useless and silly to you, why are you participating in it?
Jeez - the arrogance of some people.
It's a mistake to think everyone will/should like your posts and/or will agree with you. Just read all of the posts in this thread to find other, dissenting views (there are several; for example, post #162).
I'm entitled to my opinion as much as you are entitled to yours. My post #139 is a common sense observation about your post. In it, you're not attacked nor have I reverted to calling you names. I'd appreciate the same kind of courtesy. Thanks.
Wow - you really think that I'm delusional or self centered enough to think that "everyone will/should like your posts and/or will agree with you."
OF COURSE I know that.
I've always believed winning an argument on a forum is a fools errand.
Why don't you constrain your advice on this forum to just things about the car.
