Various Suspension Costs

Hey all, My car's suspension, after 150,000 km's, is shot and feels floaty. I don't track it, just want it to feel like a 911 again. I didn't really notice until I drove a friend's 2000 911 last weekend (his suspension was stock, but his car only had 20,000 km's). Anyhow, I've decided to try price out a replacement suspension and have narrowed down the following 3 alternatives: 1) H&R Springs and Bilstein Shocks. $299 USD for springs and $699 USD for shocks. Total is about $1000 USD and install is ____ ? (Anyone know how much it costs for shocks and springs installation?) 2) Euro M030. ~1250 USD , 800 USD for installation. 3) PSS9's ~ 2200 USD for parts and 800 USD for installation. I'm thinking option 1 for the price/value factor since I'll never track the car, but does anyone know how much it costs to install shocks/springs? Is this something I can do myself (without risk of killing myself)? Thanks in advance. MT

I wouldn't recommend installing them yourself if your not mechanically enclined. Labour is something like 1 hr per corner i believe. I'm not sure what your shop charges for labour but you're probably looking at 4hrs, plus some alignment and what not (someone correct me if i'm wrong). As for which option to go with, PSS9's will have somewhat harsher ride but you do get adjustable ride height and dampning, which is cool because i think my 996 looks like a damned suv right now. If you don't want to kill you're ride quality or don't care about lowering, you can go with option 1 of course (or throw on some lowering springs as well ). I'm not familiar with the M030 option so i won't comment on it. What come in the package, do u kno?

hey.i just noticed you're in toronto, where abouts are you located? also..how's ur engine running with a 150,000 kms on it..i don't think i've ever seen a p-car with that many k on it.

Installation on the suspension will run you $400-500 US including alignment/corner balancing. If you want to do it yourself, here's the instructions (I got these from somebody else): The Front is the hard part. Jack up the car and remove the wheel. You may nee a spring compressor to remove the old spring but not the new ones. 1. Remove the shorud on the trunk with a torx screwdriver. t-20 2. Loosen the 18mm sway bar bolt that is in strut and remove 3. Loosen and remove the nuts that connect abs wires and brake line so you can move the arm more up and down. You might have to take out the caliper off the hub. 4. remove the 3 13mm bolts from the top of the trunk that holds the strut to the body. 5. Push down the arm and the strut will be in the wheel well. 6. this is the hard part push down the strut and pull it towards you to pull out of the wheel well. Becareful not to hit your fender`. You might need to remove the 18 mm blot that conects the cross arm in the front to the main A arm so the arm has more movement. I did not need to. 7. once cleared you can slide out the strut from the spindle assembly and prepare the new one. 8. Remove the 21mm nut on top of the strut. Becareful I used a impact air wrench and push your weight down so the spring dosenot pop up in your face. The stock spring are not that strong so you can do this. Pay attention to how it comes appart. Put all the necessary parts on the new strut( bumpstop washer housing) and assemeble back wards. The new springs are shorter so the assemble may not have any tension. 9. If your car has Xenon lights remove the little sensor nuts that is hook up to the A arm. This is in the driver side. Rear easy 1. Remove the long 18mm bolt connecting the strut to the arm. 2. Disconnect both sides of the sway bar. 17mm open end and 15mm nut the bar should swing easy on the mounts. 3.Use pry bar, screwdriver to force the shock of its mount. 4. Go in the car remove the pannel behind the rear seat. It has no clips. 5. Remove the 3 15mm nuts to drop the strut. Once the strut is droped you can prepare the new one. It is similar to preparing the front. Use the new bump stops. The nut on top is 18MM. 6. install the strut back in the housing and don't tighten yet. 7. place a jack under the shock to compress it so you can put it on the arm. It kind of hard. You need to be a little strong. Once on the arm the bolt wont align. Use a screw driver to lift up the shock just a little on the arm so you can push the bolt through. Once through assemble every thing back. Remember you need jack stands, and impact wrench. I use air tools so I could do it faster. I imagine a first timer need about 4-5 hours. The sway bar were done already. The rear is easy, the front is kind of a pain. You have to unbolt a lot to get the bar out. I imagine the bars take at least 1 hour for the front and 15 minutes for the back.

Hi Dead-Eye, Sorry for the (very delayed) response--I didn't notice the questions until now. I'm currently in downtown T.O. The P-car is running well (fingers crossed) considering the mileage. I did some serious thinking before buying it and so far, no major problems. I had to change out the clutch and the flywheel, but other than that, the car is running well. I'm hoping the engine is good for 400,000 km's... (that's what the 993 guys told me a 993 engine will last, i'm hoping the same is true for a 996). Thanks for the instructions, Teflon--I'm going to order the parts, soon, but have been going back and forth on the H&R lowerin + HD shocks vs PSS9 vs. X74... decisions, decision!

You'd love the H&R/Bilstein combo. I'm running that in my car along with GT3 sway bars. I'm in Toronto so let me know if you ever want to check it out. I can help with the install as well.

^ Alon, do you know a shop that sells the GT3 sways in toronto?

Hey Dead-Eye, you have a P.M. from me...

How low does the H&R gets the car compare to the X-74 ??? Can you post any picture of the whell/fender relation ? Cheers...gotta love the temperature today....

Whell is French for Wheel...sould remove my mitts when typing !!!!!

The H&R/Bilstein combo is almost identical to the height of the X74. I don;t have any pictures of my car yet but let me know next time you're in Toronto or I'll try to take some pictures this coming weekend. It is too damn cold here today!

I've heard alot of people weren't happy with their m030.. Would anyone like to explain why? Is it not as stiff as the x74? I'm in the same boat but would substitute your opt3 with the x74 option. The pss9 is to expensive and I dont care for the adjustability..

Do it yourself with a buddys help. Its a straight forward installation with a help of a lift of course. Gives you a chance to bond with the car and see how it works. What the mechanics charge for the installation is a ripoff, adding another 1000.00 bucks to that mod and dont forget the alignment.

If you are capable and you have a place to do it, self-install is not as hard as most people think. I still think that dollar for dollar, the H&R/Bilstein combo can not be beat.

Here's some pics of my C4 after lowering with H&R springs. It dropped about 1.25" front and rear.

MightyTaco, Where did you get your prices for the H&R springs and bilstein shocks? I spoke to H&R this morning and the girl wasn't very knowledgeable nor helpful about the product or spacer related questions I had. She said I needed to go through a dealer. So what's the best price out there for these springs and shocks? Bilstein makes 2 versions on shocks for my car.. the "heavy duty" and the "sport" which one is the preferred? thanks in advance

The shock you choose depends on the feel you're looking for in the car. I called Bilstein and asked about this when I was looking at them for my car. The sport shocks will maintain closer to stock ride in the car. The HD shocks will give you a slightly tighter ride. They're designed for stock springs, so they're already under compression when you put in the shorter springs. The sport shocks are designed to maintain stock handling with shorter springs. Disclaimer: Subsequent calls to Bilstein have both confirmed and denied what I've said above. It depends who you talk to! Most of the time the tech told me the sport shocks were the correct match, but that people prefer the HD because it gives them the ride they're looking for. You'll hear both opinions on this board, though the prevailing opinion is to go with the HD shocks because most people who put in shorter springs want a firmer ride too. I'd recommend getting the HD shocks because the sport shocks allow too much compression of the springs too quickly, and in a car that's so low to the ground, this can be bad when you're on a rough road. The difference isn't really that much, but when you need it, you'll notice it.

redduck996: I was looking on Ebay and found prices for the 996 parts there, however, it appears that those auctions are gone. Does anyone know of a good place to get the H&R Springs/Bilstein Shocks?

I'm shopping for suspension for my car as well. I've been considering Row 030, Sunset has the kit for $974.00 which includes springs, shocks, sways, and bushings. If you're wanting a Lowered Look, Row may not be for you, as the amount of lowering seems to vary. Lizard 1 just put it on his 03 C2 coupe, and his rear is no lower than my worn 99 cab. Factory claims -20mm front, -10mm rear, but apparently this is not always the case. http://www.hrsprings.com/site/frames...lications.html You might try Tire Rack for H&R.

I just did the RoWM030 and couldn't be happier! The ride is much better, body roll is reduced greatly and the lowering was very noticeable. Got mine through Sunset Porsche and had it installed locally. Keeping the car fitted with factory parts was important to me.

Dell, Did you take any measurements before/after to quantify how much your car is lowered?

Like they say: your mileage may vary. You have to remember that the cab is heavier in the rear than the coupe. I know my cab is about a centimeter lower in the rear than my neighbor's coupe.

Sure did. I measured from the ground to the wheel well arch bisecting the center cap for each wheel. I also made sure the tire pressure was the same before and after. The change was as follows: FL: -16mm FR: -17mm RL: -12mm RR: -11mm Keep in mind as well that the new shocks and springs were just installed and have not settled at all yet and the previous shockas and springs were the original one's that came on the car as we bought it (4 years and 3 months old). The diff's of almost 20 in the front and 11/12 follow what Porsche specifies for the RoWM030 (20mm fronts, 10mm rear). I am going to take another measurement in 6 months and 1 year to see what the changes (if any) result.

programmatore is right. The rears in the CABs sit lower than the coupes. That was my only complaint when I got the suspension installed (why is the front appear a bit higher?). Still looks great, but I would prefer a bit morefront slant than the coupe cares to have. Based on my measurements the front sits just under 2cm higher in the front than the rear.

Good point. I didn't think about the Cab's extra rear weight.

I did the RoW M030 about 2 years ago and couldn't be happier. It's the way the car should be from the factory (along w/SSK and PSE). If you drive aggressively after it's installed you can get it to "settle" a little more then if the car just sits. Here's a few pics the show how much mine was lowered (keep in mind it's a cab).

H&R spring and Bilstein shock combo is the way to go. I just did these combo, and it rides great and handles much much better. It took around 3 hours to do , and was a very simple DIY...lets us know how it turns out.

Just to confuse you more.. My car had USM030 when I got it and I was not very happy with the height or ride. I recently changed to X74 and am very pleased so far. (do a search on X74 and you can find the thread with b4 and after pics.) Car was lowered by about 28mm front and 38mm rear. To me the ride is actually more comfortable than USm030 despite being stiffer. My cost was about $1900 US shipped from Carnewal (I saved a few hundred because having m030 I already had correct sway bars). Installation cost me $1100 including alignment which was probably higher than some have gotten. Good luck. I'm sure you'll be happy with any of these setups.

To confuse you even more, after researching all of the options recommended here, I chose PSS9s and GT3 Adjustable swaybars. I could not be happier . . .

In an effort to add to the confusion... X74 is only available to later MY 996's. Mighty T, I didn't see anywhere in your post the year of your car but if its a < '02 ...X74 isn't an option.

is their any "harshness" or roughness to the H&R/Bilstein combo?... can you keep the stock sway bars or did you upgrade to GT3 sways?

I did exact set up on mine and installed them myself. The only thing I had done by the shop is the allignment. I would say that the cost for a shop install including allignment would be around $650 USD.

No Harshness or roughness ar all, I do have the GT3 sways but not installed yet, still waiting on my drop links. YOU do not need to change the sways, in fact, if the drop links aren't here soon, i might not even use them.The ride is still very nice, and handling is MUCH MUCH better, This combo lowered the car around 1.5 inch.

And a bit more confusion....... Very important. If you decide on M030, make sure you order the RoWM030 because the USM030 is the same height as stock whereas the RoWM030 is considerably lower.

Just like Paul said. No harsh ride at all. It's the same ride as the standard suspension when cruising but cornering is diff since they are progressive(as they get compressed). When I discussed this set up with Carnewal, the H&R spring rates are lower and the Bilstein are more restrictive compared to the U.S./Canada satndard suspension, so they equate to same ride as stock, but lowered by at least 1.25 inch. No need for shorter bump stops by the way.

Can those with the various suspension variants give me a brief idea of what level of scraping they experience with their choice? How cautious do you have to be? What do you have to avoid? Have you actually damaged anything?

thx for the info guys... looks like its the way to go... 1.5" drop is very aggressive... you really have to watch your front air-dam.!!! I"m sure the handling is awesome though.

wow this is both informative and confusing! As summer approaches, I've been thinking about suspension mods too. I am leaning towards PSS9s but they are the most expensive and I would have to get them corner balanced as well. Anyone have suggestions where to get a good install and corner balance done in Toronto or GTA? My 2nd choice would be x74 but now this talk of Bilstein/H&R combo has given me another choice. Isn't the x74 essentially a Bilstein/H&R combo as well? What are the differences? Lastly, does anyone in Toronto have PSS9s or x74 or any other suspension setup that I can see and maybe get a ride in? Thanks.

yah... I'd like to get a ride in a car with Bilstein/H&R... maybe we should setup a Toronto meet sometime next weekend... anybody interested? P.

Pete & Porch, That would be the second of my worries. First would be the bottom of the engine. 1.5" is pretty low(thats why I took the 1.25 of the H&R, although not much diff) There has been few reports of cracked oil pan covers and engine itself at PCA Tech Section. Just watch for debri ahead, and those curbs when backing up. The oil pan cover will get hit first before the tires saves it when backing up.

I am in! I am free this Sunday too. It would be great if we can get one of each setup - PSS9, x74 and Bilstein/H&R...

anybody for Saturday?