VIR & LVDell

Hey LV Dell here is a link of the off track event which occurred in front of you two weekends ago. Good save for all of us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTaxxxetHVA I hope this link works. If not, go to youtube and type vb996 and search

What the hell was that thing passing you at ~1:31?

+1 It looked like a Nascar

Nascars were running with us and one guy is probably one of the fastest on the track with 1:58s..... goes up the S's sliding!!!!!!! Cup cars have a handfull running with him.

HOLY ****!!!!! That's the first I saw of the video. I was trying to explain this to my wife and told her that the three of us (Mac leading, the Synergy conversion second and me) were literally running nose to tail and I hit the plume of smoke when the Synergy conversion locked em up and I hit that plume of smoke at over 150mph! My entry speed into the brakezone (Traqmate) was 153 and my brakes don't light up until AFTER I go through the 007 smoke screen. I was not a happy camper as I thought I was going into a Cole Trickle moment. Further, I thought he was going to t-bone Mac! That guy was overdriving the car the previous 2 laps and lit up the tires in T1 on that lap as well. You just knew something was going to happen. Thanks for posting up Alex!

Nice, smooth driving , Dell. I was actually enjoying the calm "drive by the countryside" ambiance, which belied the probable fast pace you were setting. It was so calm going with the flow, I actually jumped when that car blasted by you on the left by the esses. Indeed, what followed was one thick smoke screen, right at the end of the fastest segment, just when you needed to know exactly where you are. Was he OK?

Palting, I think Dell was in the yellow GT3 at the end of the group of three, right behind the guy causing the problem. The video was shot from another car behind them. That is a very dangerous place to have that happen. As Dell said, it's about the fastest place on the track, and you're going right into a tight series of turns leading down a decent sized hill. It can be tricky *without* smoke, if you don't handle it right. There was a fair amount of good luck involved for all concerned, it seems to me. =Carlos=

I'm glad to hear you and the others made it through that without a scratch, Dell. So, now that I've seen a sample of what you do at VIR, I am certain that I'll take your advice to do my DE there - hopefully with you as an instructor! That being said, I'll never track my car - I simply lack those kind of reflexes. But, I can't wait to do DE. Will we see you on Sat. at the B&B? Bob

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I like.

wow, lots of race cars in your region!

The original poster was the in car video and by the way he is VERY fast as well (it's the seal grey 996 track car in TRJ's avatar). The three cars that passed him at the crest on the back stretch included me (yellow GT3) and another good friend leading (black/white/gold GT3). The Synergy conversion car, while fast, was driven by somebody that was driving outside their abilities. For the previous two laps while when we all hooked up there were several instances of running out of talent which had already put me in a cautious mode. I really wish I had my camera rolling as you can imagine what it would have been like viewing from my cockpit. When we went into the brake zone he tried to brake past the "*" marker which is just insane. I brake between the 1 and * (order of marker is 5,4,3,2,1,*) and that is bordering on the edge. I knew when he tried to go that deep it wasn't going to be pretty. Sure enough, when he lit 'em up, there was NO track left for him to recover and he went STRAIGHT. When he did and started off-road he hit a compression and went airborne (a few feet in the air) to where I could see the underside as parts where flying off the car. Plastic, CF, etc, where shattered and flying off the underside like something exploded. Here is a crappy quality video I posted on Google Video of me and Chris L. (seal grey GT3) running last year so you can see the area that you go into at the back straight. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...89751193732288 Bob....I'd be happy to take you around anytime. If you want to come up to a member day let me know and you can run "touring lights" which runs with NO PASSING and a pace car lead session at a brisk pace. John....plenty of fantastic cars. Always have a blast running with some of the fantastic cars in the region. At VIR Club member days though there is a good bit of stock cars with several running 2:00 laps! They can't hang with me in the climbing esses, etc, but when they get on the straights, dear Lord, look out! Alex....thanks for posting up. This reminds me to get off my butt and get the camera installed in the car and make sure I have it on at all times! I set my fast lap time that day (2:04.8) and don't have it on video ....at least i have the Traqmate data which is the more important stuff for getting faster next time! By the way, what are you running for a camera? See you at Zone2!

That must have been entertaining. They should have a wall to keep him from crossing the track between Dell and the lead car. That's scary. BTW, how did he lock the tires up that much. The car has ABS doesn't it?

Jim.....I have no idea but he had lit them up 3 times prior to his off. I thought the cars had ABS and can't imagine they would remove the ABS from these conversions. My guess is he got on the brakes so far past threshold that even ABS couldn't help. The only other 2 explanations I can come up with is that the ABS sensor wasn't hooked up in the rear or they have dialed out a brake bias that would allow for braking limits past traditional ABS slip?

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That guy was from South Boston and the name on the back is Antigues Z. He was an interesting guy and he is not afraid to drive that car. He says he gets his Hoosiers free from race teams who discard used tires. He was running with a couple of similar cars in better shape, but it was a nice setup for that type of car.

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WTF!!!! Why the need to publicly flame a fellow driver and VIR club member Dell? First of all I take offense to the flaming because he's a friend and that could have just as easily been me...would I be getting the same public flaming from you? AND as YOU look for time on the track you may find YOURSELF going off somewhere...It happens. Gilbert (that's his name) is a squared away guy and a damn good driver that I met years ago at a Panoz SCCA licensing school at Road Atlanta. He's a licensed NASA and PCA club racer...not the "in over his head driver" portrayed. He has TONS of seat time at VIR and lots of it with personal coaching from Price Cobb. Let's cut the BS public flaming and remember as we watch someone go of the track...at any given time that could be you for some reason.

Dell I have the Chase Cam which I bought from MacKenzie at CDOC. I bought the mount which hangs from the roll bar. My business computer person recommended Adobe Premier Elements 4 which I bought at Best Buy for $99 to use for uploading flash drive video to YouTube. It works well and even I can figure it out. Of course YouTube quality is not great. The ChaseCam allows you to choose the recording quality based on your Flash Card memory etc. Anyway, I try to remember to turn it on always and just keep the interesting stuff for postings like this! I am glad everyone enjoyed it.

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John, sorry you feel that way. I realize he may be a friend of yours but when a driver consistently makes the same mistake OVER AND OVER on series of laps and does not correct for it to only make the mistake he did in the braking zone is a clear indication he drove past his abilities or more specifically in this case the cars ability. He put the car in a position to fail. He may be the best driver in the world but when you put a car in that situation that it CANNOT recover from, that is not a smart move. I don't bias my statements based on friendships (or not) with fellow drivers. The post was not a public flaming but rather a simple observation of what the driver did with his car......drivng outside the limits. I would not have to give the same treatment to you John b/c 1) you are fellow track friend of mine of which I know your abilities and 2) I have never seen you push a position like that nor would I expect you to do that. I do not know Gilbert from Adam and couldn't pick him out of a lineup and I am sure he is a great guy and a good driver but in that instance while on the track with him, his attitude during that time we ran together was somebody that was trying to push a car to do things it wasn't capable of and put 2 others cars in danger. That is something I do take offense to. I continued to run with him leading up to that knowing he was bordering on the edge waiting to see if he was going to let me by. That wasn't apparent so I just put myself in cautious mode and when he went off I wasn't surprised. For crying out loud, he almost T-Boned Mac! I wish I had the camera rolling so I could illustrate his actions leading up to that.

Dell, looks like you're sleeping alright at night...

Finally The little one just turned 4 mos old and sleeps 5-6 of 7 nights of the week straight through

The driver in the video (the seal grey car as reported) is a very nicely smooth driver. I'm going for my first DE in April at Pocono so I'm itching to get the bug. It looks like a ton of fun, but that airborne car and the resulting smoke was damned SCARY!

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It's nice to see hardware like that being driven with some sense of passion. Thanks for the video! It reminds me of how much I enjoy the uphill esses and the downhill complex coming onto the front straight there.

Dell, The point isn�t that you shouldn�t flame Gilbert because he�s my friend, it�s that �you don�t know Gilbert from Adam�. If you did actually know Gilbert you would know that there must have been something else going on and consider it isolated. Who knows maybe it was brain fade on his part but maybe he was just trying to find the next second off his lap time we all seek; maybe it was equipment. What it wasn�t was what you said and that�s what got me irritated. To say that he�s driving past his abilities or the cars might be your opinion, but I certainly don�t agree. The facts are that he�s an experienced driver driving a RACECAR built but one of the best teams in Motorsports. I�m not asking you not to call it like you see it but I am asking you to be more diplomatic about your assessments of fellow drivers in public forums. Your guns blazing approach could end up giving someone an unfounded bad reputation. The one thing that�s definitely faster than a racecar is a rumor�.

C'mon, guys. Settle down. While I admire John for sticking up for a friend, I don't believe Dell was "flaming" the friend. Dell called it the way he saw it, and you obviously disagree. There are certainly a lot of reasons for "offs", and lessons to be learned all around. Leave it at that. Best way to kill a rumor is to stop spreading it. VIR is one of my favorite tracks, next to Mid-O and Watkins. It would probably be higher on my list, if it wasn't for the distance from home. Wore out my left front bearing trying to trail brake into sharp turn one after that long front straight. I just love those esses. Get a rhythm going, and it feels like dancing to a hip-hop beat. Fair warning to those contemplating going to the track/DE for the first time. It is very addicting!! "That being said, I'll never track my car - I simply lack those kind of reflexes. But, I can't wait to do DE." Famous last words. I know. I said them not too long ago. I am now several sets of tires and brakes, dedicated track wheels, track seats, harness, roll bar, $$$$ since I said it. But, I don't really consider myself addicted until I get a tow vehicle and trailer. Or, at least I keep telling myself that .

Awesome video and great reactions Dell. I can only imagine if the conversation between the drivers was done at the track, what would it be like? I think that what has been said by Dell is what he experienced and has the right to say that on a 'public' forum. John, you have every right to defend your friend, but you were not in your friends car at the time and you are going to be biased towards your friend. So lets drop this issue.

Hey Steven! Wasn't it you that had the beautiful yellow car that had the accident a couple of months ago? If so, I thought you had your eyes on another 996. Where is it man!!?? Pat

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Pat, yep that was me. I have put my 'next car purchase' on hold until I sell the Mustang (orders given to me by my wife). I will let everyone know what I get when I get it, but it maybe a few months before that happens.

�Friends�, for clarification, Gilbert is a fellow VIR Club Member and someone I would consider a track buddy, we do not socialize outside of the track or even paddock together for that matter so there is no bias there. My issue with this post is that its criticism rather than critique. Critiquing driver errors from video footage happens every Sunday, saying publicly that someone is driving above their ability when you don�t even know what that might be is wrong. Additionally, unless you�ve gone off or spun at some point , you have no clue where the limit of your car or your ability is.

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Unless he had a mechanical problem, the driver of the car made a small mistake, locking up the tires, followed by a huge mistake, not easing off the brakes to get the wheels turning again. In doing that he put the safety of the other cars and drivers at risk. I don't see how that has anything to do with finding the limits of the car. He screwed up. From that perspective, I don't think Dell was being overly critical. Having said that, I live in a big old glass house so I'll shut my mouth. The one time I raced at VIR I went so far off turn one I had to fire up the nav system to find my way back. I swear I saw a welcome to North Carolina sign. Jim p.s. we still won the race!

John, there was no flaming from my side. It's a shame that you see it that way as you know me from the track and you know that's not my style. I wouldn't have run nose to tail with him had I not been confident in his skills behind the wheel. But in that session, he obviously exceeded them and put Mac's life at risk. Had Mac made it into roller coaster any quicker (a split second) and been t-boned this could be a very different thread where we are talking about the resulting injuries to a fellow track friend.....that could have been VERY UGLY. That is where my thought is coming from and my disgust for what happened. You should have seen Mac's expression when he got out of the car....it was as though he saw a ghost. That shook him up pretty good (and me as well). Remember, Mac could NOT see your friend as he was behind him and next thing he knows, he shoots across his nose at triple digit speeds. If he wants to to overshoot the landing in T1 then more power to him as he will go straight off and only endanger himself but at the backstretch where speeds are pushing 160mph that is unacceptable. Finding that extra second is not what you, me, and the other faster cars are looking for....we are looking for tenths and that comes with VERY LITTLE bites at a time. That wasn't going to net him more time. If anything, going in that deep and that hot will LOSE time as the Roller Coaster will be compromised. Driving these cars we often forget the speeds and danger that are present. We wouldn't do this if we didn't have the ability to block that out. With that said, it is VERY EASY to discount it when you have the level of safety a car like the Synergy conversion has. You will feel much more invincible that others and might just take that risk that you shouldn't. As far as spinning or going off to find the limit, that is a school I don't subscribe to but that is a whole 'nother debate. Car control is a beautiful skill to have. You should be able to take the car on a trip just to the edge and not cross over. Knowing the limit is priceless. We aren't sponsored by anybody and don't win a purse or a trophy so crossing the over the line serves no purpose here. I agree with others that there is no need to continue this part of the discussion. I sincerely apologize if I have offended you John as I consider you a good track friend. Please feel free to email or call me and I'd be happy to chat.

To quote the infamous Rodney King..."Can't we all just get along?!"

Dell, I’m not suggesting we all take our cars out and spin them or go off to find the limit. It’s certainly not something I advocate or teach to my new students, my point was sometimes when we’re looking for “tenths” we inadvertently find an eleventh….I believe this was the case with Gilbert. Again, Gilbert is a successful squared away dude in his fifties and a damn good driver with a lot of seat time. I know he would not have intentionally put you, Mac or anyone for that matter at risk. It was a mistake. Maybe next time a chat with the driver about your disapproval of his driving…especially at a VIR Club event as we see each other once a month and we are a pretty tight group of friends.

John, I have no desire to talk to him nor did I at the time. Especially after I heard HIS account of the event with everybody gathered around his car (I knew people down there when he gave his account). He was VERY cavalier about it and brushed it off as merely just quick off and back on the track. No big deal. That couldn't be further from the truth. I honestly don't see how I flamed him publicly and I don't understand your coming so aggressively to his defense. If I feel somebody wronged me I will talk to them and I in fact did at the member weekend which I think I talked to you about (the guy in the Mustang). Obviously we see this from 2 different angles and I respect your stance. Again, as I have already said, if I offended you I apologize. See you at Zone 2.

Checking my new Avatar?

Loving it!

WOW! I just viewed the video, it took me a few times to catch the car shooting across. Thankfully there was no collision and that everyone is safe. For the record I've read Dell's initial and subsequent messages and at no time is he flaming the other driver. In fact I think he's gone out of his way to be fair. If anything John seems to be going pretty hard at Dell which is curious as he wasn't one of the 4 participants in the incident. Dell glad you and the others are safe and that no P Cars were harmed! Cheers, Stan

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Insurance logo on a track car...Is Nationwide track-friendly or writing Track insurance now? Andy

looks like fun

typical Dell-shoots his mouth off then backpeddles.

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Stirring the pot??? What Dell is doing is providing his view of the incident, and being a gentleman, he offered his apologies if he inadvertently offended anyone with his account. I believe that is neither backpeddling nor shoorting off his mouth.

Was this event an actual race?

Stirring the pot? Have a look at his form here overtime-numerous occasions he comes in with his big opinions as though he is the last word on the matter and it always ends in "oh I'm sorry I didn't think it would offend you".Suffers from relevance deprivation syndrome no doubt.

As Sgt Schultz would say "I know Nothing!!" Insurance is governed by state law and so every state is different. I am licensed in Virginia. Some insurers have endorsements for high performance cars which clearly exclude any track driving. Others do not, but I am sure it will only be a matter of time before all of the major players figure this out. The only way to be sure of protection is through the purchase of track insurance. I do not endorse anyone market at this point.

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No it was a member weekend at VIR. Typicla DE format really.

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Once again, a typical post by munro. Another post by a non-member with never anything constructive to add, nothing but attacks and worthless diatribe. Typical diarrhea of the mouth by somebody that obvious has nothing to contribute here. Attack and run mantra. Explain to me once again how my posts were backpedaling? I made my statements, stood by them, and stated that I respected John's stance and that if my posts offended him that I apologized for them. John and I are track friends and I respect him as another great driver I see quite often and enjoy chatting with in the paddock. Yet you mister munro feel the need to try and get something going here? Nice display of jealousy and insecurity. If you actually knew me you would know that I am not even close to the person you think I am. Sure, I will tell it like I see it and very often will wear my emotions on my sleeve if something really chaps my ***. And if in the process I am out of line and am called out on it I will be the first person to admit my fault. In this case, there was NO FAULT coming from me. I have no idea how you would react to the situation described here but think about it and then post your comments in a rational way as to how you would feel if you were in my shoes. In the future be apart of the conversation or contribute to it but lobbing grenades in random threads is not the way to live around here. Just relax.

Dell, don't even fall for this cr@p. Your commentary seemed spot on and was INFORMED as YOU were there. I didn't think you were lombasting anyone other than just recounting the situation as it transpired. Wow, there are definitely some very sensitive people out there.

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yea tell me about it

Ah, my good buddy Ben. How's the car? IIRC, you were thinking of moving from your C4S to something else?

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car's good, Dell. i remember how you helped out when i was in the buying process - won't ever forget that. i'm going to keep it around for a while. i'm trying to get myself to move down to LA so want to focus on that than dropping more dough on cars. i'm quite happy with it still which is a feat unto itself.

Saw that you drove an F-Car recently. Could that be in the cars soon as the replacement???

i'm mucho tempted, but i gotta get to LA first.

totally understand.

Okay, it is now my turn. I rarely post, read alot and as I continue this all of you will realize why. I frequent the GT3/GT2 as well as Racing forums and this is the first time that I have read these posts. I am "MAC" the person in the video that was almost T-boned. My race footage shows exactly how close we came to hitting each other, (just a few feet). I am, like Gilbert, a 50 something driver with several thousand laps around around my beloved VIR and I am also a VIR CLub Member. As all of you know "stuff happens" on the track. Rarely if ever at our level is it intentional and I am confident that Gilbert had no intension in any way. I have never met this gentleman but look forward to meeting him in the future. After the run session I immediatley went to Gilbert's padock location to find out if he was okay. From my vantage point it appeared that he went all the way to the trees and I was sure that his car was seriously damaged and I was very concerned that he may have been also. I stayed at Gilbert's paddock location for more than ten minutes, only to find out if he was okay, but he never came back during that timeframe. It was explained to me, in no uncertain terms by the rep from Synergy, that it was no big deal. He shared with me that Gilbert was okay, (which I am greatful) but that he had viewed the entire event from their location in the paddock (some 1000 yard away) and that it was not close nor even something to discuss. ( I am sure that Gilbert was as puckered as I was at the moment and we will have a fun conversation about that in the future when we meet.) Others that were involved or were witnesses were turned off by the response they got. Noone was present when I was at Gilbert's paddock locatin other than myself and the Synergy Rep. I believe this is what generated the responses that they had. Quite frankly, I was suprised that Gilbert never chose to seek me out for a gentlemenly, I'm sorry, but that is okay, sometimes humble pie is difficult to chew as I well know. I hold no ill will towards Gilbert and will go out of my way at our next VIR Club event to meet him and have a nervous chuckle about our near meeting. If you have an opportunity to become a member and enjoy these events, they a well worth your money and effort. (To run with Nascar cars is a blast.) Stay safe Rennlisters and have fun, I know I will try very hard at both. Jim

Jim, Nice note. If I were you guys I would be on VIR's case to put a wall there. The other guy screwed up but drivers do that. There is no way you should be able to come cross the track after going off the way he did. Glad everything worked out. Jim

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The only problem with that is the speeds that the car was traveling would have almost certainly killed the driver. Maybe water barrels and kitty litter? Something other than a wall. I realize that flip side of that is that Jim (Mac) was almost the "wall" and most would default to one serious injury (or worse) than two. Not sure what they can do there but something surely needs to be done.

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That was well put. I think I saw you at Zone 2 this weekend. As the poster of the video, I would have sought you out to say hello. I only posted to show the video to Dell and had no intention of causing any problems. I spoke to Dell a couple of times at the track this weekend. I guess postings can sometimes take on a life of their own! I am just getting to know some other VIR members, I joined three months ago, so I will look for you in the future. My car has that Blue square!

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Dell, By wall I really meant something to stop the car. Pavement or kittylitter with a wall or tires would sure be better than the way it is. Tracks should never have spots where cars can hit each other while traveling in different directions. That's crazy. Jim

That makes perfect sense. Definitely something to run by the "powers that be" at VIR next time.

bella1, I have seen you at several events and will make it a point to seek you out and introduce myself at the next event. I am sure it will be my honor.

Dell. great insticts.........!! keep up the good work!! I watch that piece and think......he must have had his "FLIR" gear working or you rabbit's foot in yer pocket was on it's game. Damn you guy! be careful out there!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am still shoveling white gold up here! Steve

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Whoa

I heard about this video two weekends ago at Zone2 while sharing a beer with Jim, Del, my wife and another lovely couple... Jim's a class act and handled this very well. Things happen, and that's part of the attraction we have for this activity we call HPDE. Make no bones about it, the potential risk is there. I think Del's assessment of the situation, although unpopular, has merit. Afterall, he did have a prime view to watch it unfold. Hopefully everyone involved can learn from this situation, as it would truly be wasted bandwidth if we didn't take something of value from it... Jim, I'd like to see your in-car of this at some point. Still chewing on the thought of Joining Club VIR. Mike