OT: Honda NSX article by Gordon Murray

http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dggtsppm_6cgtnscht To this day, the NSX is still a car that is near and dear to my heart. I put 75,000 Km on my NSX over the course of six or seven years. It's very difficult to discuss the NSX using current values and sensibilities. When the NSX debuted, the word "supercar" was still a relatively new idea in Europe. There are some who would say the Lamborghini Miura from the late 1960s was the first supercar. However, the truth is the explosion of modern supercars really started at the end of the 1980s. At the end of the 80s was the time when McLaren Cars was conceiving the idea for the McLaren F1. To that end, I was concentrating on coming up with what I wanted in a road car. To my thinking, the ideal car is one in which I could get in the driver's seat and be out for a drive in downtown London, and then want to continue straight on to southern France. A car that you can trust, with functional air conditioning, and retains daily drivability. No offset pedals allowed. No high dashboards restricting your view either. Having a low roof hitting your head every time you go over a bump in the name of aerodynamics and styling is out of the question. It is essential that a supercar be a pleasure to drive, and anything detracting from that must be excised. I started by driving the cars known then as "supercars." The Porsche 959, Bugatti EB110, Ferrari F40, Jaguar XJ220. Unfortunately, none of these fit the pattern of the supercar we were trying to build. What we wanted was a relatively compact, usable driver's car. The Porsche 911 had the usability, but with the engine packed in the back, it had a weakness in its handling stability. During this time, we were able to visit with Ayrton Senna (the late F1 Champion) and Honda's Tochigi Research Center. The visit related to the fact that at the time, McLaren's F1 Grand Prix cars were using Honda engines. Coincidentally, I spotted an NSX prototype parked near the course. I also learned at the time that Ayrton was assisting in the development of the NSX. And that Honda rear mid-engined sports car--the NSX--was the friendly supercar that we had been looking for. This car had perfectly functional air conditioning, a reasonably roomy trunk, and of course, it was a Honda, with the high levels of quality and reliability that implies. Then I had the opportunity to drive it. Along with Ron Dennis (President, McLaren Cars) and Mansour Ojjeh (Tag McLaren Group Representative), we drove the prototype on the Tochigi Research Center test course. I remember being moved, thinking, "It is remarkable how our vision comes through in this car." Of course as you know, the engine has only six cylinders; however, the NSX's very rigid chassis is excellent and would easily be capable of handling more power. Although it's true I had thought it would have been better to put a larger engine, the moment I drove the "little" NSX, all the benchmark cars--Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini--I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX's ride quality and handling would become our new design target. When working on the development of a new car for years, it's easy to be caught in certain pitfalls. When you drive the car under development for testing every day (in truth, I was responsible for two-thirds of the testing for the McLaren F1), in that time, you can unknowingly convince yourself you are making progress when in fact you are not. For example, it's human nature that at the end of a long day you may want to think that your efforts to reduce low speed harshness are working better than they are. It is at times like this when you need a car to compare with. In those situations, the NSX time and again showed us the path in the areas of ride quality and handling, and also helped us recognize when we weren't making as much progress as we thought. In my opinion, the NSX's most special quality has long been overlooked. That could be summarized with the words, "The NSX's suspension is amazing." Both the body and suspension are aluminum, and it probably couldn't be helped that journalists' attention has been focused on praising the aluminum body. However, the suspension is the much more impressive use of aluminum. It's lightweight, tough, yet compliant. Also contributing to the refined NSX's handling and ride quality are 17 inch wheels and tires that are not overly large. The NSX's suspension is truly an ingenious system, and back then I imagined the development costs must have been enormous. To achieve that unparalleled accuracy and superior ride quality, longitudinal wheel movement is allowed via the use of a compliance pivot. （※） （※） Compliance refers to when you travel over a bump, the tire experiences a longitudinal force, which the tire and suspension must move with and absorb the shock. The pivot couples the upper and lower arms. It is connected to the arms via ball joints so that they move as a unit. When encountering input, the pivot rotates, keeping alignment changes to near zero while retaining compliance (see diagram). The inspiration obtained from this NSX suspension system would later influence the development of the McLaren F1's suspension. The NSX was also the first car to use DBW (Drive By Wire). It felt very pleasing. DBW is when instead of using a mechanical cable, an electronic signal is used to communicate throttle position. It achieved a very natural, linear feeling throttle, and I can now hide my embarrassment and confess that I copied the idea during the development of the McLaren F1 (laughs). The low-slung NSX's driver's seat position also provided just the right head clearance and an amazing field of view. The NSX development team moved the air conditioning unit away from the dash and deep into the NSX's nose in order to obtain more space. That air conditioning unit is an excellent one, and normally, you don't notice whether it's on or not. On the day I bought the NSX, I pressed the "Auto" button and since then until selling it, I never had to touch it. It was that perfect. Ah, I also remember the audio system as being very good. However, the media wrote up the aluminum body, and the many merits and advantages I perceived in the NSX have largely been overlooked. In my opinion, the NSX, while being such a great sports car, had two large flaws in it's marketing. First, at the time, the public was not ready to accept a Japanese car that was this expensive. The second is that for supercar customers, the power figures were not quite high enough. Of course, the prototype's engine was not bad, and soon the VTEC engine was added. Whenever I hear that VTEC sound it's amazing. I am repeating myself, but the NSX's excellent chassis would have been capable of handling much more power. With just a slightly lower price, or possibly selling it with a different brand name and a different badge, or perhaps endowing it with a touch flashier and more aggressive styling and additional power, there is no question the NSX would have reigned as a cult star of the supercars. However, during that time, in Honda's philosophy there was a resistance to large engines with many cylinders. I am not certain, but probably at the time, the voluntary restraint on power limits was a factor. Being a fan of Honda engines, I later went to Honda's Tochigi Research Center on two occasions and requested that they consider building for the McLaren F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up equipped with a BMW engine. The NSX's development costs must have been enormous. Everything on it is unique. The chassis, powertrain, even the air conditioning are peerless. That aluminum body was very expensive. The numerous hurdles overcome by the NSX to reach production in areas such as spot welding, corrosion, and repairability make it a monumental work in automotive history. The philosophy of creating a car for human beings is apparent throughout. If it were me, I probably would not have obsessed over the aluminum and would have settled for a steel structure with aluminum panels to try to achieve a similar weight reduction. But what I really want to emphasize is the suspension. It is a a groundbreaking use of aluminum. There are a few things that could be improved on the NSX. First, the tires are too soft. Over the seven years I ran mine, I went through 14 sets of tires. After changing over to harder-compound Michelins in the rear, my tire life increased. As a result, rear grip was decreased slightly, but driving became more fun. The NSX's traction control and ABS are first generation systems and as a result are somewhat slow-acting. I also missed having more storage space in the interior. However, such things hardly seem significant in a sports car of this caliber. The NSX is a landmark car. It awoke not only a lazy Ferrari, but Porsche as well and sparked advances in usability, ergonomics, and handling. It may not have achieved success from a marketing standpoint, but many influential and important people have owned them. The NSX is also unusual in that it continued to be on sale for so long. If I were to looking for that type of car now, I would--without a doubt--gladly own an NSX

The NSX: Awesome car! Wanted one for years but can't afford the one I would like to owne since I like them in great shape. I hope they build the replacement even better! 99C2

I'll never sell mine. It still puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. Remarkable how advanced it was when it first came out. Thanks for the article. I'll need to keep it.

I'm the type of person who isn't easily amused/wowed and tend to frown on those who talk too much without verified credibility behind x subject matter being discussed & shared. Having walked the talk and you have my ears all day. Gordon's been there, done that, all that very well. The Mclaren F1 still stands as one of the, if not, greatest sports cars ever built to this day. Two things that I found supremely interesting: 1) Gordon approached Honda first and then Honda said no thus the BMW unit nestled underneath all that gold foil 2) The aluminum suspension being the hallmark more so than even that superb chassis I'm really into these insider insights which makes the achievement all the more real and special. I respect the NSX and am glad to have some friends who own one and enjoy them as much as I am enjoying my first 911. P.S. I also got a chuckle out of that 911 reference

I would love to get a NSX but there were concerns as a DD: 1. I would hate to wrestle no power steering all the time. Do later model years have them? If so, how did it affect the steering? 2. It is difficult to get parts, including body and not just mechanical, with the car out of production. I have heard people bidding up part prices just to have spares. That being said, it would be great to own one that is a collectible with low miles as a 4th or 5th car in the stable.

too bad honda didn't have the resource to develop a V8.

The NSX has always had a special spot for me. I highly considered an NSX after the M3 but for some reason opted to go with the 911. I still find myself thinking what if LOL, esp from the scene in Pulp Fiction with Winston 'The Wolf' Wolfe racing off.... Great car by any standards!

1991 Acura NSX - 270 BHP and 210 Lb-ft -Pretty weak for a 1991 "Supercar" (and it gets smoked by everything in it's class, but it handles great and looks cool, the owners claimed...) 2005 Acura NSX - 290 BHP and 224 Lb-ft -Uhm... 14 years and 20hp later...not sure what you call it, but DEFINITELY NOT a supercar!! 2000 Honda S2000 - 240 BHP and 153 Lb-ft -Great horsepower for this class as well as it having such a small engine, but that torque??? Terrible!! 2008 Honda S2000 - 237 BHP and 162 Lb-ft -8 years later and 3HP less! Noticing a pattern? Now WAY outpowered by EVERYTHING in its class (except Miata) Honda never does anything to their engines, they simply let them become obsolete! These cars were once great. They are now underpowered compared to even modestly powered cars. I'm sure some of you have fond memories of these cars, aren't memories great? Honda's a joke when it comes to sports cars.

The NSX is an incredibly fun car to drive and own. I'd purchase another one if I could find one in great shape (nice mods would be a bonus!) and if I had more garage space The handling is very controllable and predictable, very light in the front end though to the point where pavement changes you can feel hops on the front end through corners. Power for that car wasn't it's selling point for sure but the driving feel and sound (had some hks mods) are unforgetable. The 91 MY was ahead of its time for production car technology and style, can't wait to see what's next to come. IMO the R8 for style is what the NSX was for style back in 91 - ahead of it's time.

Quotes source post: 5184990

Honda has a history of creating some great cars and letting them "die on the vine". You just gave two great examples of that (the current S2000 CR is a great example). Unfortunately for Honda enthusiasts, I suspect it is far more profitable for the company to pump out Civics, Accords, Pilots, and Odesseys than it ever will be to make NSX's and S2k's. So I'd bet their development $$ will continue to go to the minivans and ecomony cars (with the occasional performance car thrown in the mix so the dad driving the Odessey can feel special and the 16 yo kid in the Civic has some new badges to put on his car).

Quotes source post: 5183115

Why? Just seems especially strange coming from someone with a flat-6.

Quotes source post: 5184990

The S2000 might outpower a Miata, but at least it doesn't weigh almost 2900 lbs. I've never been a huge fan of the Honda sports cars, either. I routinely laugh when people talk about a car having a "soul", but if there's a car that definitely doesn't have one, it's a Honda.

Hmmm...decisions decisions decisions ...with all these threads going on in a Porsche 996 Forum, should I get another Porsche, or a GT-R or a NSX. I guess the longer I wait and keep checking back here, I will have more choices soon

Quotes source post: 5182252

Gordon wrote a book on the design and development of the F1, titled "Driving Ambition: The Official Inside Story of the McLaren F1". If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it. One of my favorites -- it's a great story about a great car (I agree -- one of the best of all time, and if I were mega-rich I'd own one). Also provides a great look at the process of designing a car from scratch -- the way it should be done, whether it's a McLaren F1 or a Honda Civic. Gordon is on the short list of the best overall vehicle designers to have been in the business, IMO. His knowledge of overall vehicle design and the complex interaction of attributes and systems that go into them is amazing. Very very very few in the industry are even close (and I design cars for a living, so feel somewhat confident I'm on the mark here). If he says the NSX is a great car.... it's a great car!

NSX is a very nice sports car but not a supercar and could care less. I am starting to wonder when the Toyota Supra "best all around sports car" thread is coming, that one should be next in line...lol

Quotes source post: 5185636

I'll def make a run to the local bookstore and check it out - thx for the recommendation. I'm actually an avid reader of the UK car rags like evo and car. It is of my modest opinion that the Brits publish the best car mags and tailor the best suits (bespoke, baby). Though I couldn't care less (ls911, that's the correct expression of it) about the little mini-editorials in the front 1/4 of evo mag, I do make a note to read up on Gordon's contribution. I like how even though he designed a mega-supercar like the F1, he still breaks it down to the fundamentals and can see brilliance in the very things the avg folk will overlook. Like the figures beyond the easily digestible hp/tq figures that Americans point to saying the NSX is way too meager in these power depts to be considered anything special which, imo, is completely myopic needling the all too common inner-moron. That's why you'll never find me being utterly loyal to X car brand/model such as the 911. There are just too many other great achievements under the sun to huddle up around just one camp fire. And if you'd be so kind as to share your profession here, I think that'd be fantastic; if anything, I'd love a PM from you just so I can associate you to appease my curiosity. Best, Ben

Quotes source post: 5185808

Yea I wouldn't call the NSX a supercar either by my definition. It's just too attainable. To me, a supercar has super everything including a super-high price. No variation of the 911 is a supercar in my books.

[QUOTE=Benjamin Choi;5185967]I'm actually an avid reader of the UK car rags like evo and car. It is of my modest opinion that the Brits publish the best car mags and tailor the best suits (bespoke, baby).QUOTE] Why ofcourse

wait until you see the new NSX it is amazing ....

I disagree that the reason it was not more popular is that people weren't ready for it. It was sold out on release and a premium was charged. People were more than willing. It was a time when Japan was reinventing car enthusiasm. The 1990 Miata was huge - and continued to be for a long time. Lexus was stealing share from MB. Interesting that the LS and MX-5 wen't on to be huge sellers for years and years. LS goes for close to $90K I think. The reason the NSX died on the vine was because it did not have any soul. It was the vision of a super car as seen by a company that maintained QDR as its key, if not sole metric. It didn't inspire. Rationalize all you want. I appreciate British tailoring. Hard to beat a Su Misura Zegna suit, though...

Quotes source post: 5186123

I think the NSX has plenty of soul whatever the fuq that means. Zegna is in the business of fabrics. It's the tailor that's the artist behind it all where the suit becomes what it shall become. I love Ozwald Boateng's style and flair and will one day take a fistful of cash (more like a duffle bag) to the Row and just load up that closet full of his goods. Enjoy your threads in good health, bud.

The NSX never did anything for me. Could have been great (?) but never got there, kind of like a Fiero, ha. I know an oldtimer that has a mint white 1980 BMW M1 in his garage, about 30k miles. Seeing his car made my heart skip a beat: gorgeous Giugiaro design, coachbuilt by Baur, only 455 ever made, just to meet homologation requirements. Also only 6 cylinder, but at least a proper straight 6. Maybe not "supercar" status, but definintely a super car.

You are a funny dude - you and your NSX/GTR deserve each other :>) Ozwald Boeteng? Yikes. You are right about Zegna - but like great wine being made in the vineyard and not the winery...suiting is ALL about the fabrics. And his less is more style in tailoring is as much a statement as is crazy Ozwald Boeteng's brightly colored leathers. That said - hey if you can pull it off... Further and to your original point, the Brits make amazing fabrics too.

The NSX was a great car and a fantastic value when it was introduced. However, by the end of it's run in '05 the rest of the relevant automotive sports car world had caught up with and passed it's performance. Honda had done little to really increase it's performance (compaired to the relevant competition) and they had significantly increased it's price. So in the end the car offered Porsche Boxster S levels of performance for significantly more money. Shame on Honda for not maintaining this car.

Quotes source post: 5186916

Again, you gotta realize the whole bespoke thing. You can make it what you want. You can have your classic black/gray suits if you want. You can go a bit crazy and have the bright orange liner. You can do what you wish, but under the consultation of OB - you're paying for his time and eye for style. It's custom. Get it? He started out with suits and now expanding is line to make $$$$$$$$$$$ as the bespoke market is just too niche. How many dudes even know about the Row let alone can justify dropping $5K per suit? You go to the streets and 99.999% of the dudes out there buy off the rack cuz: 1) they don't got the $; 2) don't got the sense; 3) they got 2 kids and a huge mortgage and the Merc on lease; 4) they don't know better (check #2). Again, the ignorant conservatism is too fuqin funny here! (not picking on you here bucket, but you did pigeon hole OB's style as being crazy) Anyways, back on topic... I'd love to try an NSX and see what the big deal is about. I haven't driven one ever. I think modified right, they still look insanely good and makes the 911 look like a VW bug.

Quotes source post: 5187282

Ben, I agree. They look great, but when they 1st came out, they were stunning and one of the most beautiful cars my eyes had ever seen. It really is too bad they didn't evolve for looks and performance. I mean, just think what could have been...an evolved, current technology, gorgeous $130K NSX with cutting edge beauty and upwards of 400 to 450 BHP. They were simply produced to help the Acura name... You feel me?

To me the NSX now looks dated. I wish they would come out with a new model.

"Anyways, back on topic... I'd love to try an NSX and see what the big deal is about. I haven't driven one ever. I think modified right, they still look insanely good and makes the 911 look like a VW bug." after all that, you have never driven one?! delicious!

I didn't write the article, dude.

Quotes source post: 5187323

Hopefully the next version coming out will be sweet.

Quotes source posts: 5185954, 5185954, 5186198, 5187074, 5187282, 5187576, 5187599

Excellent.........I agree 100%......so many people just look at the HP/TQ numbers and form their whole opinion on a cars performance based on this. There is so much more to the NSX than the HP/TQ numbers. Agree with you on this too...........So many Porsche owners and yes NSX owners claim they are car enthusiats but only talk down about other cars even when faced with facts and articles written by people like Morgan..........Porsches are great cars.......NSX is a great car..........there are so many others....... Yeah I agree with you, whatever that means............unless you have driven the car how can you say it doesnt have a soul?? I Can never understand the people who say, "well its a Honda so it has no soul"..........thats just ignorance or arrogance talking. Yes a BIG shame on Honda for this............. drive it..........you will like it. And come on over to http://nsxprime.com some time if you like Perhaps dated since the design hasn't changed much since the original in 91 but still a classic look............ It will be sweet but I think Audi has beaten Honda to the market............however the new NSX is nothing like the old one......not even an MR anymore....... for your viewing pleasure

andial, i like your brain man.

A friend just bought a super nice '99 nsx with 11k on it and I drove it and loved it. I dont know how anyone cant say its a great car!!

Quotes source post: 5187978

likewise.......... Here is an interesting thread I started a couple years back after I drove my buddy's NSX.........a Lister (d993) really started bad mouthing the car and then another Lister (BBailey) came in and owned him with facts and first hand experience (Post #34)........ https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/287142-drove-an-nsx-tonight.html

Quotes source post: 5188038

Check out my GTR thread. I was hoping rennlist would be a lil' diff, but it's not from the other car forums out there like m3forum, s2ki.com, etc. We all tend to huddle up around one brand (likely the one in the garage), but I tend to notice that those who have been there done that focus less on the brand and more on the actual value of the car. I hope to be one of those types of owners - Jay Leno is a real cool car guy in my book. You will never, ever catch me wearing a Porsche hat or Ferrari jacket, whatever.

BC, donning paraphernalias doesn't mean you're a close-minded zealot. If I saw you with a Porsche hat or Ferrari jacket, all that tells me is you're a fan and appreciate their products -- that and maybe you're a dork. I'm a life-long Rockets fan and I show my support with some logo-gear, but that doesn't mean I don't respect the success and excellence of the other NBA teams. More importantly, I certainly bear no ill feelings about their cities.

My bro had an NSX for many years and loved it. He finally replaced it w/this --

Quotes source post: 5187911

You got to give Honda some credit. The car still looks good today.

I love this article, Gordon Murray is my hero. I've owned my NSX for 2 and a half years, it was my dream car for years before I bought it. Lately I've wanted more power out of it (since my buddy bought his Viper, haha), this is easily fixed with a LoveFab turbo kit that is supposed to be incredibly reliable. I've also been thinking about selling my 964 and my NSX for a 996 TT though, so if anyone in the Calgary, Alberta area wants to drive an NSX and they have a 996 TT, maybe we can work something out.

Quotes source posts: 5188222, 5188222

Interesting read..........lots of haters.............but I expected that........... I LOLD at that one.............

I wanted to point out that this is the 996 Forum on the Rennlist Forum website, not the Rennlist Forum. There are lots of individual forums on this website, primarily around the Porsche. So here on this forum, you are going to find the 996 owners primarily, and of course we are going to bash anything else put on this fourm that is not a 996 that we are told we should respect. So what do you expect to get when you place threads on here that should be located elsewhere (i.e. Off-Topic) So you want to talk big about the NSX and the GT-R and get respect, go to there respective forums, you will love it there As for me. I like the NSX a lot, it is a great design and has been for years. The GT-R, well I do hate the design of the car but the numbers are admirable!

^^^ So true.

have a look at the new NSX ... http://www.vtec.net/news/news-image?...42473/nsx1.jpg

Quotes source post: 5189160

Lets see what it will look like with mirrors on the side. It's amazing how someone can take a great design liek that and stick the wrong side mirrors on and screw it up so quickly. But I do like the design...very edgy

Quotes source post: 5188695

Spot on......

well the pic is from " Fact or Fantasy" on Temple of VTEC, one can only hope ... V10 500 + hp is optional .. V6 380hp standard ..

Quotes source post: 5188695

Wrong. I'm a 996 owner and I do not go around bashing other cars that's not a 911 Porsche. I have things I like about my 911 and things I understand other makes/models do better. For me, the 911 is not the be all and end all, it's not my ultimate dream car (not sure if one exists in fact), and if someone comes in here specifcally calling out OT, it's all good. Let the mods do their job. No one is forcing me to click on the thread and same goes for you and your mouse. Does that make me not passionate about the 911? Not at all. ****, look at the amount of time I spend here writing my thoughts out. I tell ya, 99.9999% of Porsche owners do not spend this much time thinking about, engaging with complete strangers online. I enjoy it. In fact, I love it. I write more here than I write anywhere else. My guards are down and I am how I post. Speedy, if we had gone forward with having a drink when you were in Seattle, I'd tell your **** that your car looks fantastic and that I'm a huge fan. Now post-GTR thread, I'd tell your same face that the word hate is too strong. Hate racism, hate domestic violence, hate injustice, but c'mon... hate a car's design? C'mon. The GTR looks unique. You can not care for it, it may not arouse you like your 911, but hate? C'mon, bud. Now if I happen to visit the other car sites (I won't, I only care to participate in the forums where I actually can directly relate), I'd be that same guy trying to keep it real and candid. As much as I loved my E46 M3, I would tell those guys that truly there is something special about the 911 that the M3 simply cannot and will not ever try to replicate. They're two different vehicles. Through my "controversial" positioning in my threads, I've actually had the good fortune of exchanging some PMs with some high quality individuals. For this reason alone, my OT posts have been totally worth it. Now will I go about looking to continue to post about other cars in this forum? Likely not.

Quotes source post: 5189400

^ Nice solid points BC The words love and hate are frequently used loosely, not always meant with passion. In Spanish, for example one never uses the word love to describe anything material, such as I love my p-car, since it is not possible.

I considered the NSX in 1995 against the 993. It came down to price. Although I thought the NSX was miles ahead in engineering and styling ( and dealer mark-up), the 993 was the better value proposition. Resales of 993 and NSX seem to validate this that the 993 was a better buy.

Quotes source post: 5189870

Likewise in Mandarin. "Loving" an inanimate object in my native language sounds simply unnatural. "Liking" it is as far as it goes, semantically. That's why English is so fun -- there aren't as many rules!

I loved my 91. The manual steering was one of the best aspects. That only lasted 1-2 years as they started the electric power steering on them. By 2005 it was absolutely a dated, overpriced, under powered car. But I still love them. I always explain the NSX this way: "It doesn't do any ONE thing better than other cars out there but what it DOES do is MOST things very very well." If that makes any sense.

When the NSX went away from the pop-up headlights to the integrated headlights, I think that was 2002, I started to not dislike the car anymore. I hate to say this, but I still detest the looks of the GT-R. Now I got to go outside and cut the grass, I hate cutting the grass

Quotes source posts: 5191775, 5191775

Hey, it's OK to not like the way it looks. It's, uh, growing on me yet, but I wouldn't be ashamed to own one. Ha! There IS an advantage to the midwest in winter.

I just really like the way the suspension components look on the NSX.

Before getting my Porsche, I thought seriously about getting NSX instead. However, I have kids and I needed those back seats, so choice was obvious.. Hopefully in the near future, I'd like to own one... or perhaps f-car!

Quotes source post: 5191775

I'd only get the non-pop headlights. The pop-ups are way too 90s. It looks pretty damn dated now. However, the new design with an aerokit and lowering job on 19s... the NSX still looks killer to this very day and I'm sure drives great since it's pretty lightweight. Like so: I'd happily take that yellow one sans stickers, diff wheels, in silver/gray no regrets. You want more power? Supercharge it by Comptech (though I understand they are not out of business).

who's pretty lightweight? from http://www.edmunds.com/used/2003/acu...876/specs.html NSX Curb Weight: 3153 lbs. http://www.edmunds.com/used/2003/por...090/specs.html 03 C2 Curb Weight: 2959 lbs.

Quotes source post: 5194056

I've weighed mine at a truck scale and it was just slightly over 2900lbs. Not super light, but it wasn't 3100lbs.

Quotes source post: 5194102

You must have used my wife's scale.

Quotes source post: 5194342

your killing me

Quotes source post: 5194056

there's no way in hell a carrera weighs less than 3000lbs. they're probably both very similar, too close to call. predictable response. i knew some p-nerd would quote absolute weights without any clue whether it's with fluids or not, full tank or not, etc.

Quotes source post: 5194467

WHAHAHHA good one

Quotes source post: 5194342

Haha, awesome. Do these rims make my car look fat?

ah, the 'ol nsx. before they went to the pug fugly fixed lights with those weird bubbles on them like the toyota celica, they were one of the nicest cars to ever leave a japanese factory. i often contemplated dumping the 996 for one. my friend's NSX pictured here with teitek upgrades and supercharger, he's since added the rest of the teitek kit (rear wing in dry carbon, not the fake wet layup stuff you always see and some other goodies ):

Quotes source post: 5194534

what did u predicate? don't know if u want to call me p-nerd, i am not sure what "p-nerd" mean, i am from ESL class. anyway, i don't have better data. here's another link http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/sp...=911&trimid=-1 C2 Curb Weight - Manual (lb.) 2959 looks like every website is getting the same data feed.

is that with fluids or not? what options because the nsx doesn't really have any real options packages to the best of my knowledge.

Quotes source post: 5195454

What is your primary language?

3 time nsx owner here. Best cars I've ever owned bar none... most refined, balanced and elegant. The only negative thing I can say about the NSX is that it's too refined. You really have to take the car to its limit to feel a rush. When I drive my 355, I always feel like I'm going faster than I actually am.

I have 0 faith in the reliability of the F355 which puts it in a clear do not ever buy list for me. Lovely looking exterior if you never have a need to drive with the headlights on, great sounds, very dated interior.

Quotes source post: 5198050

When I was looking for a car I was thinking about a 348 for a while, I was amazed at how dated the car's interior was for an early 90's car. I still love the exterior and the sound though.

During it's debut, the NSXs power level wasn't low. By today's standards where even a Kia has more than 300hp, yes the NSX's 270/290 is pretty low. As for "supercar". If Gordon Murray calls the NSX one, I'd have to agree with him. During it's debut, it was a better, more reliable, faster, and better handling car than Ferrari's 348, forcing them to make better and faster cars. The NSX can be a daily driver, its seats are really comfortable and supportive, it's a BLAST to drive on a track, and I have to disagree (subjective-personal opinion) about the NSX's "Dated" interior as I personally find it simple, elegant, with all the controls within easy reach of the driver - very driver-oriented with a great seating position. Regardless, it did need 400hp and with a turbo, their are not too many cars that are more fun to drive. With 600whp+ it's ridiculous:

Quotes source post: 5194813

Like squeezing a C2 car cover on a Turbo.