Why does Boxster S have big reds

Same for upcoming Cayman. If the cars have less horsepower / performance than a standard 911 Carrera, then why are they fitted with bigger and heavier brakes? Are the big reds fitted to the boxster different to those fitted to the 911? A recent thread argued that it was pointless to fit big reds to a car that is normally fitted with standard brakes as the additional braking power is not needed and they come with a weight penalty.

I dont think they are "Big Reds" . same size as the 911..just painted red.

The 986S brakes are indeed the same brakes as the 996 (however, I am not as sure about the 987/997). The 986S is almost as fast (and almost as heavy) as the 996 around most tracks so it does make sense to give it the same brakes.

correct!!!! and that is whay the calipers are interchangables!!!!

Ray, I'm still confused. If the Boxster S is almost as fast as the Carrera then I understand why it would get the 911 standard black brakes, but why the reds which I thought were standard on the turbo and other upgraded models of the 911?

The BoxsterS is fitted with the "red" because like all of the other "special edition" Porsche models which sport color calipers. This differentiates these higher end models from the "regular" edition models. My BoxsterS weighed about 2975 v. 996 about 3075 or more. So, it's somewhat lighter, but about 100lbs lighter can be significant. On its own merit, it has marvelous driving characteristics on the track, etc.

It really makes no sense at all. I am of the camp that thinks that ALL of the brakes should be either red (signifying Porsche's partnership with Brembo and their massive racing brakes that we all have regardless of model) and yellow (only fitted on those with PCCB). Can't stand when they tie the identity of a trim level with brakes on that model by color regardless of size or stopping power. Really stupid. For example, the 986S brakes are the same as the 996C2 brakes (front and rear). Just painted red. Yet the 996 line paints the C2 model ones black, the C4 silver, and the C4S/TT red. Silver brakes? Come on, that is just dumb. That is what the model designator on the rear lid is for...not the choice of brake epoxy. To add onto the 986S v. 996C2 comment from above, yes the 986S is great on the track but is in no way, shape, or form better in any aspect than a C2. If they want to get technical then paint Boxster line brakes black, 911 lines red, and GT lines yellow. That is a CLEAR seperation.

The S versions have red painted calipers to distinguish from the standard version. This is a styling and marketing thing. S buyers want some way to look different than the starndard version. So the red paint is not indicative of the brake power needed.

They are the same brakes as the 996, except that they are painted red. The Turbo gets the real Big Red's.

I just looked at my 987S and 996 C4S. Both red, both 4 piston monoblock, both vented and cross-drilled rotors. The C4S rotors appear larger and thicker, though, especially for the rear. And the calipers look bigger on the C4S. I thought at first they were the same, but they obviously are not. I also looked at the Porsche web site. The 987S and the base 987 share the same brakes, and it's only the color that changes. Can't comment on whether they would be the same as the basic brakes on a 997.

Woa buddy. Obviously either you don't track both cars or you are not a very accomplished driver. To make such an ignorant statement really detracts from your credibility.

Mitch, you really are a jerk off. Tired of seing posts from you when all you do is attack people. Other than the location of the engine (which is still highly debateable) I have no idea where your attack is aimed. Hmmmmm, let's see, I stated the 986S was great on the track and followed that up with the obvious that it is not better than a 911 (996C2) in any way. All things being equal (driver, conditions, etc.) the 986S would still come up in 2nd. Nonetheless, still a great car. So not sure where you attack is aimed once again. Maybe just in your nature to behave that way. Off to the ignore list for you. Have a great time attacking others on the board. And by the way, a little advice. I would tone down the attacks on others when you are just asking to be attacked with darn near 1000 posts and not a hint of contributing to this board. Enjoy the free ride.

Well now, I would ask you to show me all these "attacks". I have been posting here quite a while and have always enjoyed the banter and information that I have recieved. If I have hurt your feelings, I appologize. I have never resorted to personal name calling as you have so easilly. Please enlighten me to all my attacks. Now on to why I was debating your comment that the 986S is "in no way" better than the 996. First, the 986S is lighter and lighter is better Second, it has better balance and better balance is better I wasn't attacking you but you can't make a blanket statement about such a comparison. The 996 is an awesome car but so is the 986S

Since I made the original statement about the two cars I will comment. First, I didn't say "better" I said "almost as fast"......big difference. However, I own both cars and the Boxster does have better balance and is a little more forgiving (IMHO). Honestly, the thing that makes a 996 faster (than a 986) around most circuits is horsepower. If you put the same motor in the Boxster it is pretty clear (to me at least) that lower vehicle weight and superior balance would allow the Boxster to walk away from a 996 C2 in most situations (the rear weight bias of the 996 is always going to allow it to brake harder). I love both cars (obviously as I own both), but if you drive them both regularly (as I do) their respective strenghts and weaknesses show through. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. They are different.....and I love them both for (and in spite of) their differences.

People here are tossing around the phrases 'same brakes', 'identical calipers except for color' etc etc. I really don't think that's the case. There's so much more to brakes besides the approximate size of calipers and rotors. For one, the diameters of the pistons inside the calipers affect brake bias a great deal. I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me (a lay person with no formal knowledge of sportscar physics) to put the EXACT same brakes on a mid-engined car (Boxster) and a rear-engined car (911). It's like when people put Porsche-branded brakes on their Audis - just because the calipers are big, it doesn't mean you're going to have all the advantages of the bigger caliper, and what advantages you may get, you'll get at the cost of ruining the brake bias which is built in to the car when you get it. Look at Stoptech: their ST40 caliper is all over the place, front and rear of all types of cars. But the internals - the piston diameters - of the caliper is different for practically every application. Maybe this is the case with Porsche brakes? I know a guy with a 928, and he has 'Big Reds' (what the heck does that phrase mean anyway? Porsche makes at least three different calipers which are 'big' and 'red') up front and 928 front calipers on the rear. Does that combination a good-braking car make? I'd argue no.

Excellent point nkhalidi.....but for reference to the current thread, the 986S and 996C2 share IDENTICAL brakes. The only difference is the red or black paint repspectively. It is just a marketing thing. People want something that says my model is more expensive/better/etc. than yours (ie, the 986S costs more and is faster than the base model 986). Heck, the brakes on the 996 C4 were silver and those are INDENTICAL as well. Same brakes on three different cars: 986S Red 996C2 Black 996C4 Silver

Dell, since you are still following this thread, should we just kiss and make up?! Sorry if I came on too strong, I just don't like to see the Boxter not given its due respect.

Having owned both a 2002 Boxster S and a 2002 996, I think I can chime in here. I loved my Boxster S. It felt more like a real sports car right out of the box. By comparison, the 996 felt more like a great GT car than a real sports car. After I installed PSS9s on the 996, it felt a lot better, but the 996 "feels" a lot heavier than the Boxster S. The Boxster S is better balanced BUT, and it is a really big BUT, it is very, very difficult to reign back in when it starts to spin (think polar moment). In other words, it holds on far longer, but when it goes, it goes. By contrast, the 996 will start to come around sooner, but you can catch it much easier. That is one of the reasons why the rear-engined oversteer happy 911s have been so popular with track rats for over 40 years. In short, I think that it may be easier for a novice driver to be fast in a Boxster S than in a 996. I think that it may be easier for an intermediate-expert driver to be fast in a 996. Of course, I am talking stock out of the box for these gross overgeneralizations. The bottom line is that I love both. Back on topic, the calipers on the Boxster S are the same as on the C2 996. The brakes on the C4S and Turbo 996 are bigger and will not work without adaptors on the Boxster S or the C2 996. Brakes aren't a problem on any of these models so for the vast majority of us, no modifications apart from pads are necessary.

Td, I totally agree with you in every point mentioned about 996 Vs Bxtr S. the fact that you mentioned "but when it goes, it goes (for the S), and "By contrast, the 996 will start to come around sooner, but you can catch it much easier.(for the 996 of course)".... this comes to point where we compare mid-engine cars Vs rear-engine cars.... on the other point mentioned: "Back on topic, the calipers on the Boxster S are the same as on the C2 996. The brakes on the C4S and Turbo 996 are bigger and will not work without adaptors on the Boxster S or the C2 996. Brakes aren't a problem on any of these models so for the vast majority of us, no modifications apart from pads are necessary.[/QUOTE]" that's totally true again. 1rst: adapting turbo calipers on a C2 and Bxtr is a nightmare since your need exept from the GT3 rotors , several other bits and parts which unfortunetelly they do not all come from the same donor car, and exept from time consuming is far expensive even to consider buyind second hand parts.... in this case complete kits such as 6-pot caliper kits from RUF, as well as Fr & Rr 4piston caliper kits from Cargraphic and others.....do cost around 4.500 euros and do the job, wich in the end of the day (this has been verified from people that have done it) do not improve that much the braking power of the car, since the unsprung weight is much bigger than stock calipers..... carnewal.com offers a nice set of four brand new red calipers that direct replace the stock black 996 C2 calipers at a very competitive price. they do the job (in fact they do the looks.....) i am saying that because 6 months ago i bought 4 big reds from a 996 4S 03 to use on my 996 C2 01. rears were direct replacement. fronts were a nightmare......!!!!! I eneded up sending back the set, and buying Front GT3 bumper + GT� sideskirts.......!!!

Not sure about kissing but how 'bout a beer? No biggie, apparently you have the same level (if not more sometimes) of passion that I have as well and we just happened to collide at the wrong time. My intent was not to knock the Boxster but to clearly state that the 911 was not its' equal...but that is the fault of PAG to keep heirearchy intact. Listen, I will be the first to buy a Boxster Coupe'...oops I mean Cayman if they are in fact everything that us 911 guys have been after (performance AND balance). Water under the bridge........ ......And now back to our regualarly scheduled programming

ppl somehow thinks that boxster is "below" 997 996 993 etc? i had a 02 box S and it's one of the most amazing cars from porsche. this comes from a owner of 5 996's two of which are gt3. i would still have it if i had a bigger garage. give it a chance drive the box hard and you will really appreciate it. now if i can find a used GT3 motor to stuff into a 986 987 ;-)

John, thanks for giving Boxsters some credit. Now if only Porsche would put a 3.8L or a GT3 motor in the Boxster/Cayman. I'd be willing to pay 911 prices if that's enough to keep peace in the family Back on the subject of caliper colors. It's marketing. Caliper color, twin tip muffler, and 3rd radiator are about the only ways to tell an S vs non-S to an astute observer. Even then, most people can't tell them apart. Bigger brakes get you more heat dissipation--not necessarily better braking. 330mm vs 318mm is less than a 4% difference. The bigger pistons account for about 12%. So, total you're looking at 16% more brake torque. Changing to 0.45u pads from 0.35u pads is 29% more without any increase in unsprung weight. Note that most cars have a front brake bias, so with bigger front brakes alone, you actually lose braking. The reason to go for bigger brakes is a) bragging rights or b) greater heat dissipation under road racing conditions. Semi-related, I was actually tempted to paint my calipers black. With red or yellow calipers, you HAVE to clean them. Nobody cares about dirty black calipers...

back off topic i loved my '97 boxster, all 2.5 litres of it! despite it's numerous squeaks and rattles, despite having to do the "chop" when dropping the top, and despite it being under powered, i miss it a lot! it was much more aw and visceral (especially with the evo intake behind your left ear) and was so tossable. the 996 feels much heavier and slower in the corners. i sometimes wish i had kept it and dropped in a 3.6 and blow everyone away at the track but still the main thing for me (track wise/safety wise) was the lack of the tin top. my biggest regret is never taking the boxster to the track