Biting off more than I can chew with used 996 ?

Hello folks, I realized a couple weeks ago I could afford a high mileage 996. I was blown away and shocked that I could afford my absolute dream car...I'm talking around 23k and I could have a beautiful carrera !!!!! I was soooo excited and ready to start saving. But I believe, unfortunately, that dream may be silly. Trying to learn everything I can about the 996 c2 02-04...I have read that possibly when someone like my self spending 23k on a 996 may be a lot more expensive than I think. I have read some comments referencing a 20k 996 will require replacement items of such large cost which would have a guy like me spending 15k-20k on replacement parts and labor. (Not talking about ims) This was the quote..... more than that - i actually spoke with my mechanic a lot of what options he can offer as i keep beating my car on a track, and he is under opinion that any of modern 996/997 street cars should be treated as disposables because as they get used up they accumulate such list of issues that total 'proper' repair price get astronomical and you have to replace half car to keep it working - axles, bearings, gearbox, steering - all has its limit and when it`s reached it has to be carefully assessed what to do next, financially. So my question is, if I spend 25k on a c2, do I need an additional 15k laying around to keep her running. I don't want to buy one and it fall apart on me and I can't fix it. Maybe that is why the higher mileage 996's are so cheap. No one in the right mind would buy one. Please help.

Plan on spending $2-$3K per year on repairs and maintenance. If you can afford that on a year to year basis, then you should be ok. This will cover clutch, RMS, brakes, AOS, starter, water pump, thermostat, tires, CV joints, etc. over a several year period. Of course, eventually something expensive WILL fail. Replacement (eBay) engines are $6K-$8K + $2k installation. Custom rebuilt engines are $12K and up. 6-spd trans are $3K + $2K install. Never think that maintaining and repairing a $70,000+ car will be like owning a Honda or a Toyota. If you have to take the car to a shop, every repair will be more than $500. The best way to save money during Porsche ownership is to learn to do all of the maintenance and most of the repairs yourself. Remember that there are no cheap Porsche's.

All Porsche watered cooled car depreciate more and quicker then Air-cooled (except GT3). Many of us have only had to do routine maintenance + consumables to keep our cars running well at 100k+ miles. That said if you buy a car that has deferred maintenance or been abused you will have to pay to bring it up to date. There are many things that a competent DIY'er can do to save $$$ on labor. There are also suppliers that sell parts at a discount. For example SAI pump- Bosch in Porsche box = ~ $1200, Bosch pump in Bosch box = $300 ETC... Pick a well cared for car, get a PPI, have fun enjoying an incredible deal on a "Super Car" I have averaged ~$700 per year over the last 5 yrs.

...but you're the Sausage King of Chicago. I'm not sure where the $15-20k number came from but that seems kind of high to me. That's basically the cost of a new engine. If you plan on replacing the IMSB early on then I wouldn't think that should be a high risk item. That said, a 996 is not unlike any other used car in that the closer it gets to 100k miles, the more likely expensive parts are to break. Unless you plan on doing work yourself you're looking at the cost of expensive parts and labor. Hopefully you won't have to spend $2k per year on maintenance but if you can set that much aside as insurance for when or if something does go wrong you should be in pretty good shape. Of course, as with any car, there are no guarantees. Do your diligence, find the bet 996 you can afford, be patient (don't let your heart get the best of you), get a PPI and be smart about maintenance. Or, if the time isn't right, don't rush into something that will turn into a financial nightmare for you. Wait a little longer, save some more and then pick up your Porsche. These cars aren't going anywhere. Only you know your financial circumstances and what is right for your budget. Best of luck! -Eric

Sigh,,,,,,, Hey I have an idea. Tell your "mechanic" hes fired and you will be repairing the car yourself. Dont believe it. I spend more than this per year on oil.

And this is why I sold my 996 The fear of needing $15k sitting there "in case" The reality of it is, I may have spent $500-1000 on basic keep it running costs/year 2 months after I sold it the cam solenoids went and cost the owner $5k to have fixed, and the car still has the original ims So either learn to fix things Have cash available Have a second car so you can spend large amount of time if needed with the car down Get a newer car Find a bumper to bumper warranty All of the above A the end of the day.... I may spend even more on my current ride...so learn to NOT add up the receipts....best plan

I was told when I purchased my 996 to have $5K in reserve that repairs can easy add up to that. Now that being said I don't think I've ever spent $4K in a year (and that was the year I replaced all 4 tires). Last year I think was my cheapest year at around $1,100. So far this year nothing...but I need breaks soon.

Two basic Porsche ownership rules: 1. Keep the key in your left pocket 2. Never total maintenance and repair receipts

"Affordable high mileage Porsche"...get serious, folks. No such thing exists in the real world. Its the "pay me now" (high purchase price/low maintenance) vs. "pay me later" (low purchase price/high maintenance) trade-off that applies to nearly all used automobiles, especially complex German luxury cars. relinuca

Read this until you can recite it from memory.

I'd love to get an early 2000s Aston Martin, but I know that I'd never be able to afford the maintenance for this very reason. In fact, this is why I spent a little bit more for a CPO Porsche.

I'm not sure from your post whether you plan to drive the car or track it. As a driver the 996 is no different from any other 10 to 15 year old car of this level of technology (mercs, jags, bimmers, etc.) Yes they are expensive but the costs are manageable. If, for example, you budget 20k for the purchase and another 10k for maintenance for the first few years then you are still well under the cost of a new Camry. If you intend to track, well, your in for a different kind of ride cowboy! As a general rule of thumb you can afford to track one level down. If you can afford to drive a Ferrari then you can prolly afford to track a Porsche. If you can afford to drive a Porsche then you can prolly track a Miata.

how will you use this car? regular daily drive, weekend fun car, or track car? depending on your usage, the main. cost varies a lot. but if you don't mind get your hands dirty, 996s are easy to work on, and parts are not *that* expensive.

My 2004 is DD and in 3 years I have spent maybe $800 in non schedualed maintinance and $200 of that was a battery. Sure, clutch and 60K were expensive but most reliable car I have ever owned and absoloute blast to drive. So, my suggestions are as follows: 1. Take your time and find a good one 2. Do a PPI 3. Do a PPI 4. Do a PPI 5. stay up to date on maininance and oil changes and enjoy

Quotes source post: 10462949

I've bolded the key phrase in that quote. A normal, street-driven 996 won't see most of these major repairs needed. How many of you guys have had to replace the gear box or axles on your street cars?

I have been extremely lucky in my ~8yrs. of ownership, currently at 110,000 miles. This is my DD (except during inclement weather) & I have had no unusual expenditures as of yet. Keep up the maintenance & drive the dang thing, garage queens seem to have more problems than most daily drivers (that I have seen). Still, don't spend every last dime to purchase it, have something in reserve just in case.

Cheap to buy, expensive to own. A good, 3 year after market warranty will cost around $3k. It won't cover maintenance items (oil changes, clutch, brakes, etc), but most cover the expensive things. As has already been said, there is never a cheap trip to the shop. Worrying about the cost of repairs + the dreaded failures will most certainly lessen your enjoyment of owning a 996. If you are really worried about the cost now, don't buy a Porsche.

I'm sorry, the post that I quoted caught my attention with the word disposable. This car would be a weekend car and not a track car. I am some what mechanically inclined. My plan is to find one on this site for sale, buy one from a real porsche lover. I see the ones on Craigslist in Southern California, where I reside, but those seem more of a risky buy. Thank you very much for the feedback, it helps me tremendously. I will probably take my time and find the right fit c2 for me and have some extra cash on the side for the inevitable repairs. I believe if I take my time and hopefully find a high mileage but well maintained c2 I should be ok. I am super paranoid and already factored in that when I find her I most likely will immediately change the clutch and do ims upgrade. Peace of mind is huge in my eyes. If you we're in my shoes looking for a higher mileage 996, what would be some automatic disqualifies or good things to look for regarding the care of the vehicle and stuff. I am not picky with options so that's a plus. Thanks again.

My car is for sale (see sig) and I have already addressed all of the normal 996 issues and maintenance items that tend to come up on these cars. I can even deliver to SoCal since I'll be down there in two weeks.

Also, regardless of if you are interested in my specific car or not, a car like mine is exactly what I would recommend you look for in a used car: - Receipts for maintenance and repairs since the car was new - Regular oil/filter changes (5-8k mile intervals) - When modifications have been performed, they are high quality parts - Big-ticket maintenance items like clutch, RMS, water pump, brakes have been performed recently - Very low Range 2 over rev count (like, only a couple at most and it should have happened many hours ago so you know it didn't hurt anything internally) - Range 1 over revs aren't a huge deal, but a car with a very high count (like in the tens of thousands) suggests a car that was tracked or beat on. - If you divide the mileage of the car by total number of engine operating hours, the result should usually be somewhere around 30 (lifetime average speed of 30mph). Higher than 30 suggests a car that saw a lot of highway time, a number lower than 30 suggests a car that was used for commuting and spent more time in slow driving conditions. Interpret that as you will.

This should be in all 996 posts signature line. To "enjoy" ownership of a 996, you will need: 1. Well funded account for parts. 2. Fully equipped shop. 3. All Porsche specialty tools. 4. 996 salvage yard nearby for parts you cant buy new. 5. Lifetime supply of JG DT40 oil. 6. Jakes "hot line" number for problems you cant solve.

Good lord, it's not THAT bad owning one of these. They're not a Camry by any means, but owning and maintaining these cars is not that big of a deal. At the end of the day it's a glorified VW/Audi.

As a weekend toy, 996s are great. check out this DYI list, http://www.renntech.org/forums/tutor...6-carrera-diy/ and http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/...aintenance.htm you will have a better idea of main. cost. Again, the key is DYI.

I bought mine when it had around 70k miles. I now has just under 130k miles. I still take it to the track and drive it each and every day. I have spent close to $10k in total repairs in 4 years but most of that was because I proactively replaced the IMS, clutch, and upgraded the suspension. Other than that I did have the AOS crack and the alternator go out. I could say both of those were caused by the heat of track events so that leaves just oil changes, brakes, and tires. It's been a great car and even with these costs I'm still in for less than a 997.1 or a plain-jane BMW 3 series that I see on every corner. Do it but just make sure you are either willing to work on it yourself or have a decent cushion of money to take care of issues as they come up. If you defer maintenance on these cars it will haunt you in a very expensive way.

Quotes source post: 10464179

Yeah that's not too extreme of an opinion... Lol I've owned 2 996s over the course of about 75k miles daily driving in NY/NJ/PA and have never spent more than brakes, oil, clutch, etc. I actually don't know *anyone* who has owned one (off forums in real life I mean) whose experience was any different. I suppose KK here has had to rebuild multiple ones, keep a mechanic living in the spare room, and build a machine shop to manufacture parts. If that were common no one would own these cars at all. Of course it's possible to have catastrophic luck and/or start with a bad example, but needing to make sacrifices to the gods and pray for mercy is obviously not normal.

I bought my 2002 C2 Targa after almost 11 years of enjoying the Timex watch reliability of my 2001 Honda S2000 which cost me $200(MAF Sensor) in unscheduled maintainance in 125,000 miles. I bought the Honda after dumping about $7k into a Porsche 944 Turbo over a 18 month period. (my 3rd 944) Had a 2005 Corvette C6 (hated it)for about 8 months after I traded the S2000 then came to my senses and returned to the Porsche fold. I'm praying I don't incur more than a $4,500 total over about a 3 year ownership period averaging maybe 8k miles a year. I paid a premium price($27k) for a car with 62k miles but the dealer I dealt with has a stellar reputation, excellent mechanics, and this is the 4th car I've bought from them over the past 20 years.

If you're doing your own work and look to places besides the dealership for parts, a 911 is no more expensive to own than any other German car. Caveat: IMSB failure, headgasket, cracked cylinder walls are not cheap to repair. If you want a performance car with downright cheap maintenance, look at a Viper. Over 20k miles I had a few hundred dollars in maintenance and repairs.

Quotes source post: 10462949

actually you have it backwards. They are so cheap because so many bought one. Pre 996: as few as ~200 993 cars sold per month in all of North America.. Post 993: 2,300 cars sold per month in North America. More 996's were sold in 2002 alone to NA than all the 993's during a boom 1990's economy. Builidng 100+K cars of any model series tends to over-saturate the market of a car that is meant for a specific type of driver. Now add in another series (997) that sold incredibly well for another 7 years and you have to be nuts to touch a Porsche that hasn't had all its repairs taken care of. Simply find one of the many that has been looked after well. As far as repairs costs. The Porsche problem is not unique to Porsche. The rule that cost of repairs do not scale down with time is true of every Audi, BMW, Merc and VW you see on the road built within the last 10 years. No one's really sure why German cars are so expensive to fix, its not like they're Lexus reliable...

Don't forget Jaguar, lol....

Quotes source post: 10464948

Funny you mention that. I started a thread awhile back, https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...intenance.html that dealt with my experience on the Jaguar Forums dealing with a maintenance issue with the S-type I gave to one of my kids. They considered a $400 repair to be expensive. Regarding my 996, if that was the final bill leaving my Indy, I would likey be doing a jig in the parking lot! If you are used to $29.99 oil changes at Jiffy Lube, $300 window regulators and $800 clutch jobs, you simply have to be realistic about the maintenance and repair costs (I know KK, but not everyone is as mechanically inclined as you are). With some 996 prices now in the high teens and low $20K's there are many new owners that can afford the car, but not the maintenance. I think back to my younger days and if an oil change for my new car was 6 times the price of an oil change on my old car, I don't think I would have changed the oil every 5K miles simply due to economics. I'm not the first to observe that in many cases, these lower priced cars may already have been in the hands of owners that could not afford regular maintenance and likely took short cuts. I would be increasingly worried about buying a "cheap" 996. Both for the maintenance you have to do, and the maintenance that hasn't been done.

My mom's XKR coupe has had zero issues (aside from a saggy headliner and crappy floor mats).

Aberfoman, There is a pristine 996 for sale. https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...l#post10454461

Mileage with these cars does not scare me at all. I'd rather have a well used 100K car than a hardly driven 25K miles car. Because I know what populates my storage area right now awaiting our magic... Not a single one of those cars have more than 73K miles and the majority have less than 50K, and some even have less than 40K. I have driven 53 different 996s this year in excess of 100 miles each, (doing my pre and post procedure evaluations and product development) these have all different mileage points and of those I don't see any issues at all with higher mileage cars. The one I drove home tonight has 47K and has more rattles and gripes than the one I drove last night with 97K. Both of these have my big bore engine :-)

Yup - I just told my wife tonight that if I had to choose one to keep it would be my 2004 C2 touching 80K miles and I'd let go of the 2004 C4S with 38k miles. It doesn't make any sense to her, but it does to me. Of course I have no intention of choosing at this point, and if I could have a JR big bore, well, then I'd have to choose which car I'd have that dropped in. (but since I don't play the lottery there isn't much of a chance that I will get to make that choice either)

Have owned two BMW 7 series and two Audi's before current p-car. (Still have a bmw and mercedes). ALL of these can be expensive to maintain, not just the Porsche. Good luck w decision.

Quotes source post: 10465086

I paid $26,500 for my 1999 W/55k miles 8 yrs. ago.....

Quotes source post: 10465920

Thank Dog, a voice of reason. I'll take a well-cared for higher mileage car over a low mileage car that has sat around most of it's life any day. My C4S has 104k on it now and it has needed pretty much only regular maintenance.

Quotes source post: 10465920

But what about all the non-engine related major maintenance and unexpected repairs (to include wear items like clutch/ims)? I think the case is very strong for lower mileage water-cooled on that front.

Would you rather replace a starter/alternator or need an engine tear down because all the seals are dried out and leaking?

Quotes source post: 10466979

Neither. That's the point. There are two considerations. IMS/RMS/Flywheel $3K upgrade, twice a year Castrol Edge oil changes, at least weekly driving, no short-shifting, etc. didn't hold off $9K in maintenance and unexpected repairs on a water-cooled Porsche that was well under 100K miles. Probably $12K at this point and it's still under 100K miles. Engine issues aside, Porsche is not Lexus. More miles, the closer you are to very costly non-engine maintenance. If you don't have the cash to write a $3K check you better be handy with a wrench if you buy a water-cooled Porsche with moderate to high mileage. A few non-engine related trips to the shop back to back can easily set you back that much and you're far from being done with that 100K mile check list.

I've been driving Audi quattro's for over 25 years and I've had my 996 for over 6 years now. It has - by far - been the most reliable and least costly car for me to own and maintain. Knock on wood...

99 C2 purchased 2010 with 65K. 92000.00 miles current I've spent less than 3 grand on all repairs and routine maintenance. Previous owner had several known items replaced under CPO and had the 60K service performed before she sold. You can find a solid car that won't break your pocketbook with repairs.

My 996 IS my DD and I bought t in the summer of '06 with 37,000 miles on it. It now has 147,000+ miles on it and has been rock solid. It's had mostly but minor maintenance done to it, along with a few more expensive procedures over the years, but nothing I would consider back breaking. It's had the IMS and RMS replaced, ONE clutch replaced over those years, the AOS was replaced by yours truly, as were the brake pads, disks, alternator, serpentine, belt, engine mounts, coil packs, and spark plugs. It's an easy car to work on.

Quotes source post: 10466364

And I paid $5000 for mine with 200K miles last year but the engine wasn't running. These cars are getting cheaper by the minute and the 928 owners will start buying them soon.

Quotes source post: 10469600

Yep, I followed your re-build....

The problem with a Porsche that has a cheap purchase price is the buyers generally learn that they can't afford to own the car. Thats when cars are "bankrupt" when they just need a set of tires, or anything more than an oil change.

Quotes source post: 10468087

I said the same thing up until ~70-80K miles. Only one repair (throttle body). The Porsche bested every Volvo, Honda, VW, GM car I'd ever driven before on reliability. Then it was like as if all of these parts were engineered to all start going at the same time. And repairs that were under $500 stick out in my mind because there have been so few of them. I'm not sure about the air-cooled, but with these cars it seems that if you drive the car in wintery conditions you really cut the longevity of the original parts significantly and they are very expensive to replace (some of are of very questionable durability for such prices). But at the same time parking the car for half the year, every year, is not a good practice for the engine.

I bought mine with 85k miles this year. The ppi and past maintenance was excellent and so far, knock on wood, things are still well. I knew i had to replace the tires and top at some point so i did it immediately. The fluids will continue to be replaced on schedule going off of the po's indy records. There are a lot of ****pots out there and people want kbb retail for some reason. It is a porsche but it's still a used car.

Quotes source post: 10469796

basically a case of a seller who is not familiar with the simple laws of supply and demmand. The number of people interested/brave enough to buy second hand Porsches will soon, if not already, become overwhelmed with hundreds of thousands of water-cooled Porsche 996/ 997/ 991/ 986/ 987/ 981/ Cayenne/ Pana.... lots of cars in every shape and flavor for each series. I like that Excellene Magazine report the prices of what cars have actually sold for in that one section.

Bought my 99 C4 with all maintanance records.

Bought our 2004 C4S Cab with 106,000 miles. Had deferred maintenance issues right off the bat. Tires $1,000, water pump went out the first week, $450.00 with serpentine belt replacement and a few pulleys ) now it's in the shop for the AOS. Still have to get the top replaced soon. I budgeted for this, it's painful, but plan on driving this car for a long time. All the other maintenance, such as plugs, oil change, brakes etc I do myself. Just either way DIY or be prepared to spend bucks to keep it on the road or don't get one. Like many have said here you will rarely leave the shop without a $500.00 bill. Just my .02

I am right with you Bernard. Bought my 02 C2 with 28,000 miles last August. I researched all of the issues prior to the purchase and knew that a car that had not been driven much could be an issue. Low mileage, but still a 12 year old car. Plastic gets brittle, rubber seals dry and crack, and on and on. With the price paid I factored in the follow up preventative maintenance that I was going to do to head off some of the major expenses. I am also aware of the price of the tires. Soft, performance tires are not going to last as long as the ones on a 4 door sedan used for family outings. I have also owned American made cars in the past that had strange things (power seat motors, transmissions etc.) go out with low mileage but after the warranty had expired. Response was I should have bought an extended warranty. I went into this with my eyes wide open and I cannot put a price yet on the sheer joy this car brings. It is unfortunate if people get into these because the initial price is affordable and have no idea that things do break and they are not cheap to repair.

I bought an '02 C4 Cab with 32k miles on it in Feb 2012 with great records from the PO. Car now has 62k miles on it and I've replaced (RMS, brakes, rear shocks and springs - PO put wrong springs in to lower the car, clutch and flywheel, 6 oil changes, tires with 4wheel alignment, motor mounts, 60k service) - fun items - anodized racing pedals, 2din head unit and FisterD exhaust). I'm currently in at Jakes for the long term items (AOS, IMS, RMS, Water Pump). This list might seem long but outside the springs/shocks and the fun items, it's standard maintenance stuff. As for cost......$10k ish....but I gotta tell you my car is in great condition and runs extremely well.

my 996 2002 was bulelt proof, for peace of mind i did the IMS and RMS when i did the clutch, i wasn't in a rush either, waited till clutch needed to be done & did them all, cost was around 3k....dont' believe the hype that these cars need TONS of $$