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YOUR RESEARCHLooking into a 2000 911 Carrera
Leading reported evidence
Replace about 1 1/2 years ago
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
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0
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Apparently, the car had its clutch, RMS, and IMS bearing replaced about 1 1/2 years ago.
Leading evidence: 'Replace about 1 1/2 years ago' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'same money' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check by at least a compression' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
i just get this feeling that people are scared of this bearing because of the cost to get the thing replaced by the dealer/shop.
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Suspected cause
I'm not current on the market prices but I think you could find a better car, an unmolested car for probably the same money.
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Suggestion
Make sure they include engine check by at least a compression check if not full leakdown.
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I'm considering buying a 2000 911 with 97k miles on it. High Mileage as never scared me. The car is in great condition with no leaks of any kind. I'm new to the Porsche world, any common issues with these cars that i should keep my eye out for?
I'm very mechanically inclined so i can handle any maintenance. I did a quick inspection of the car and didnt note anything wrong. Any input or advice welcome....
how is the 3.4 engine anyway? reliable?
..........That is a big question for your first post.
Do a search on the site. There is a ton of info........good stuff and bad but don't let that scare you away. Good Luck
hahaha, i know i need to dig around in this site for a bit.... im coming from AUDI's. just looking for some general direction.
ONE big question: how the hell do you guys work on these engines when they are tucked in the car so far? do you have to drop the motor down or what? does the rear bumper come apart?
for my audi's, they have a service position that requires you to pull off the front end to access the front of the engine.. THANKS!
Learn from the mistakes of guys like me. What did'nt I do that I wish I had? Get a PPI, pre purchase inspection at a porsche dealer, or reputable porsche only shop. They can find things that need attention that a mechanically inclined guy with no porsche experience will miss. I bought mine without having it and spent over $5k shortly after getting mine in shape. Its a long story, but it seemed fine when I bought it. There were no oil leaks that I could find. There are a couple guys who have worse stories. I love my car , but if I had to do it over again, I would have taken my time and looked at several before pulling the trigger. Had I found this site prior to the purchase, I probably would have read for a few days too.
In my case, emotion won over reason. Easy to do on such a vehicle. I bought a 2000 C2 cab with 68k miles.
Yup - PPI
No matter how sharp you are on cars, Porsches require Porsche experiance - nothing less.
I had a 996 with 116k on the clock, and it was a great car, still driving fine. That said, not knowing a few things prior to buying it caused me a great many sleepless nights. No kidding. Read up and ask around. Don't be scared, be smart
IMHO, the 996 is a really great car. It's lighter feeling than the newer models and has that "seat of your pants" feel that has been refined out to a great degree. There are plenty of spare parts and indy mechanics who are very familiar with them as well. The 996 is really light and nimble on the street and with a few add on's you can awaken the beast within. Airbox, Chip, Clutch, Headers, Cat's, Mufflers, Rim's, ect... It's just a great classic Porsche with plenty of mod options. It's a 9 outta 10 for value and performance.
The engines sometimes get the idea in their heads that they'd be better off blowing up. I mean it's obviously a bad idea I guess they're just at that age where they're easily influenced by the "cool" crowd.
Yes and PPI is a MUST - do not buy a car without getting one. Make sure they include engine check by at least a compression check if not full leakdown. In my experience the PPI done by a dealer is not that great. I always do it at a trusted independent shop.
As for the motor issues - do a search on this forum. Try "engine failure" and carve out about 4 hours for reading time. Your absolute best bet is to buy a car that has good records and already has the motor replaced.
Welcome to Rennlist!
Since you are coming out of Audi's you know this but I will saw it anyways.
Whatever you pay for the car remember you still are maintaining a 70K + car so nothing is cheap.
and the PPI is worth every dime. I bought my car from a Porsche dealer and still had a PPI done elsewhere. (call me Captain paranoid)
nothing says a car w/o a replaced motor is not worth owning - there are very few things that "typically" go wrong with these motors, but all 3 of them cost the same amount to fix
IMS we hear alot about these days since there is a "fix" now
intermix - we less about and seems to be less of a problem on motor with some miles (not a 99' with 22k miles - caused by cracked heads in the valve area with pin point precision. Those in the know.. can tell you right where it is cracked without even seeing it....
large portions of cylinder walls falling off and playing tag with the piston and valves plus helping Mr water into areas not allowed
any one of these will cost about as much to fix as a 99' base is worth - no PPI can tell you if one is about to have this happen either... though I highly reccomend the PPI - it is NOT a save all / know all and to quote Marc... this is more like a $98k car so things are priced in accordance with that even though you can buy one under $20k
AND for the record, the only thing differant about the newer ones as far as the list of issues... is the issue date, a little more power and options - same basic 3 problems...........
I am not trying to freak you out - its just something you have to be mentaly prepared for and if you find out AFTER you buy it, I swear you wont sleep a wink for months!
I agree. Find a middle aged to older mechanic who specializes in Porsche/Audi who has worked on these cars for years and years.
That is who you want to do your PPI.
Most of the techs at the dealers were in High school when these cars first hit the street.
Too true about the PPI telling you little about whether or not the motor is going to pop. If you are going high mileage get one where you know the motor is fresh. That 4-8k more will save you almost $20k. Buy the best one you can afford.
Welcome r1de23! the experienced members have spoken and to answer your quote above..yes...car is best worked on from below and in order to save nicks/scrapes to the rear bumper..
sometimes
it's better to remove it.
PPI & a Documented history from previous owners is uber valuable, even if they state the motor was replaced without you having to investigate for yourself.
I paid a decent price for my 00 C2 Cab. If I would have negotiated due to a few
minor
hidden issues I found after I purchased...
maybe
I could have knocked at most 1-1.5K off the price.
I was determined to get this car due to low miles and Carfax alone, which was a
HUGE
gamble in retrospect... but the car was straight and true and I couldn't be happier today because it's mine.
If I had not gotten the deal due to the seller not knocking off a few thoudue to the hidden items, the seller may have just sold it to another unsuspecting, inexperienced buyer based on it's outer appearance alone...
Post pics!!
Maybe I'm an oddball but at this point I'd be happier with a 100k motor than a 40k motor on a MY 2000. I recall someone who had worked on the IMS solutions (Raby?) saying that major failures in motors over 70k or so were less common than in motors with lower miles--something to do with low mileage motors spending too much time sitting.
Anyone else remember hearing that? Because it's what I'm sticking with now that my motor's over 70k. :P
nice comment , but I think that if the RMS leaks / IMS issues have occurred to all range of miles, it's a problem regardless and the only solution is to inspect and replace as needed; which means time and/or money on the owners part. I am satisfied that I purchased my 00 with 9458 on the odo and did the iMS/RMS right away even tho there was no evidence of leaks when my indie dropped the transmission; it was actually spotless, I kept my original dual row bearing as a memento. I saw first-hand the inherent problem with spring-type RMS seal.
I have been thinking that the cold start / operating temperature actions of these engines may play in the part of the failures; i.e. .....hi revs when cold and / or sitting too long between oil changes which I would say
some
of the wealthy owners may have done with these cars back when new...that is to say..they neglected maintenance on them....
my .02
I have a friend that is also Porsche hunting and I am filling him in on what to look for... r1de23, where are you located?
yes, but the IMS bearing should be replaced ASAP as it is a "wear item" the failures of intermix are much less on the higher cars as stated because the motor has "proven itself" thru use that it is a good one - the bearing however is a bearing and can/will fail when it is ready... more time doesnt "prove" it is a good bearing....replace it
Just an observation, but any precision machine will quickly degrade, dry up, and generally become less reliable if it isn't used regularly. Porsche engines are made to be run hard, and require a weekly workout at minimum to maintain integrity. In short it's a cardinal sin to let your P car sit undriven. It's not a Picasso, drive it or get a family car.
2 things come to mind when you mention Audi:
1. If you can work on an Audi, you can easily work on the 996.
2. If you can afford the maintenance on an Audi past 100k miles, you will easily afford the 996 cost.
I genuinely could not figure out how to change the alternator on my A6 I had without removing hard lines or raising the motor.....ridiculous.
Oh and btw, I pulled the front end off twice for the timing belt/water pump. This was a 6 hour job even after knowing what to do ahead of time.
I agree about bearing wear, but I swear I remember Raby or someone saying they see more failures around 40k than they do 70-100k. Please someone confirm seeing that so I know I'm not going crazy.
I would not be concerned about the miles of the Porsche IF it has been maintained properly. Yes, with a doubt, a GOOD PPI is very very important. Due diligence here is what I would consider paramount. In other words, don't take the dealers advise as to whom should perform the PPI. Looking for a new Porsche is a great experience that I hope you will thoroughly enjoy. Please keep us posted.
Mine went at 85k and I have records almost all the way back to new. It was fastidiously maintained and I have over an inch thick of documentation to prove it.
Thanks for all the responses....
UPDATE:
I spoke to the previous owner on the phone and tracked down some records at an out-of-state porsche dealership. Apparently, the car had its clutch, RMS, and IMS bearing replaced about 1 1/2 years ago. Along with some valve work (lifters). Total cost was $5k+. Also, the car has numerous upgrades from Evolution Motorsports (exhaust, intake, chip). This is all great news to me. So far the private dealer is asking $19k for the car. What do you all think?
I'd say go for it, those EVO upgrades alone are worth several thousand. 600 for a new windshield and seal. 2000 for a short shifter, shift ****, pedal kit (Techart), 3,500 for a nice wheel / tire / offset package, rennsport is the crack. Shock/Spring/Sway Bar upgrade is a few thousand. Maybe another 4500 for headers, cat's and exhaust. 3800 or so for a paint job and it will look incredible (I recommend the clear coat anti chip additive). Brembo big brakes are about 4000. Looks like you need a replacement rear window seal ($200 or so installed) Remember to find a reputable indy mechanic that will give you a good deal. The dealership is NOT the place to get this car modified. I'll have some pictures of my 2000 midnight metallic blue 996 with all of the above upgrades as soon as it gets out of the paint shop. It sounds like a lot of $ all at once, but if you chip away at if for a few years it will magically get done. You end up with a car you have invested 60,000 bucks in thats worth about 25k.. but holy @#$% it is a blast to drive after that.
It's part of the P car sickness i'm afraid. I get giddy thinking about upgrading them lol. All my money = bye bye
My mechanic is like a drug dealer to me. I'm currently planning on a complete engine/tranny turnkey swapout from Motormeister with the cams and porting. Their racing transmission is geared for American roads and highways and really increases the low and midrange torque. Only about $18,000.
You sound a lot like myself, I just did this same thing. The thing is, becasue we can and do work on our cars. the concerns for you and I are not that of people that dont work on thier cars. Ya knwo what I mean....
When I loook for a car I look for something that doesnt have anything catastrophic wrong with it. Leaks, horns, trouble lights.... I dont worry about.
But I want to check compression and intermix. Other than that... Im good.
The egines have issues... look up "cracked heads" "IMS".
I just bought a 99 with 103K on it.. Nice areo for 17K. dropped another 3 into it making it to my standards of "right" and have put 4000 miles on it in a few months....
Nice.....i like the aero kit on it, yea i cant wait to get her (if i do). Cars are definitely my weakness. i like wrenching and driving them. i just sold my 2001 Nogaro Audi S4 (my baby). I think a 911 is a decent "upgrade".
where is NW PA do you live? My home town is in PA.
I haven't read the whole thread but I don't like it based on the info in this post.
IMS bearing is not a serviceable item and I know of no dealer that has replaced one. Sounds like salesman BS. Have you copies of the work receipts?
Afterthought is perhaps the IMS end plate and the 3 bolts were replaced. This is rather common when the RMS done to upgrade the end plate and its seal (and the bolts are treated with sealer as well) cause many RMS leaks are in fact from a leaking IMS end plate seal or oil seeping past the end plate bolt threads.
Likely car was tracked with the mods.
I'm not current on the market prices but I think you could find a better car, an unmolested car for probably the same money. Any mods in my book cheapen the car rather than add to its value. Then the usage the car received implied by the mods turns me off on the condition of the car.
Sincerely,
Macster.
As far as records, the previous owner had them with the vehicle and between the dealer i'm looking at and the dealer he bought the car from , the records were thrown out by a previous employee. Thats why i've been contacting the owners and dealerships where service was done.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I would bet the fort that the IMS bearing has not been replaced.
Hell, we have only been talking about the LN/Flat 6 IMS bearing for a year.
well, here are my thoughts on it... regardless if the bearing was replaced or not replaced... there is not leak at the rms and today i will listen for excessive bearing noise in the area. also, if i do end up needing a bearing. im not worried about, ill just pull the tranny off and change it, it looks pretty easy to me.
i just get this feeling that people are scared of this bearing because of the cost to get the thing replaced by the dealer/shop.
The bearing starts to make a noise a few seconds before the engine falls apart, and then it's a new engine, maybe just a rebuild if you're lucky.
The actual switch to the upgraded bearing isn't that difficult though, you're right.
well, if i get this 911, im going to go out and buy that upgraded bearing and once i have some down time, i will swap the bearing out and i should be good to go.. im all about preventative maintenance dont get me wrong. i work on airplanes for heaven sakes...
I don't think anyone is afraid of the IMS (and if you are calm down), but for me personally I'm just flat out tired of hearing about it. I have to agree with Macster and soverystout on this one.
Good luck whatever you decide though.
The bearing doesnt start to make noise until it is usually too late.
Do what I did.... Just do it... It is a walk in park job.. But its a BIG park.
Trust me, I was all over this IMS thing before I bought my car. I have to have atleast 60hrs of solid time invested just in looking in to it and talking to people about it.
My whole logic was , ok 1000 to replace the bearing or 14K for an engine MAYBE.... I paid my 1000 now instead of MAYBE spending 14K. I thought it was a good bet. I took it.
hey shark attack, what parts/tools did you get to replace the bearing? i saw that LN kit, did you just get the IMS retro kit with the puller tool? single or dual bearing?
you wont know if its single or double row till you see the cover (depth of center) or look at the bearing itself...
the tool must be rented/bought to pull it... check out the huge thread Shark (Kyle) posted with videos and lots of pics - its a winner!!
CLICK on LINK
not yet, i put a little cash down to hold the car while i get my S4 sold.
That IMS bearing is cake. that write-up is helpful. i just wonder how you determine which bearing you need, because id like to have the bearing on-hand before i pull the tranny off, so that i can finish it in a weekend.
after looking under the car yesterday, i was checking out (in my Head) how to pull that tranny. from experience do you drop that cross member brace that is right below the tranny/engine? exhaust?
How could we know that, you dont have a location noted? My point is you should really expand your search and take your time. A high mileage car that you have to hunt all the info down for is perhaps not your best choice. It may be expedient and exciting, but take a step back and look at it rationally. I could care less at the end of the day what you do exactly, but take some collective wisdom from the board and expand your search out. You seem like you just want people to validate your decisions that you have already made and not actually consider that this may not be the right car. I am on my third porsche and 12th car so have been around the block.
Whatever you do - take the car to get a thorough PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection) as noted several times on this thread.
Look for a very short thread I did called "im going in alone" by me, Shark Attack. watch the videos near the end. It is a duel and yes I bought the retro kit with the puller
Sure
I would be more concerned with a possible intermix than IMS failures. 1999 and 2000 cars seem to be the main years affected - it sure did me in at 68,000 miles despite meticulous care. No PPI is going to reveal that time bomb. Good luck!
