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YOUR RESEARCHWhat's up with the P-Car photos with 3 wheels on the ground?
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controlling and utilizing weight transfer
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The critical issue is controlling and utilizing weight transfer to improve handling under braking / cornering / acceleration.
What's up with the P-Car photos with 3 wheels on the ground?
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What's up with the P-Car photos with 3 wheels on the ground?
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As the title asks, what's up with these photos that show three wheels on the ground and the extra front wheel in the air over the track? Is it highlighting the suspennsion that is so stiff when one rear quarter digs in it lifts the opposing corner's wheel? Is it that the car is so powerful the torque lifts the car? Is the balance really bad? I'm guessing it's a good thing because I see it all the time. Thanks for hipping me to the facts.
There is a lot going on to make that happen and it tells a fairly significant story about what is happening in the drivers seat of the car being photographed. Its not just suspension, but driving skill combined to drive right on the edge of the limits without going over.
IMO
A combination of the tight suspension, but also the extremely tight body structure.
I get that all the time going up driveways at an angle, can tell the front wheel is momentarily dangling.
I think most racecars are getting that when bounding over the corner strips.....
My girlfriend has a picture of her lifting the inside front wheel of her ZHP...yes it takes some driver skill but some huge sticky tires and a BIG SWAYBAR really help.
You ever seen a VW rabbit at an autocross? They usually don't put 4 tires on the ground the whole run if they have race tires on.
Wouldn't suprise me if all of those cars had GT3 front bars.
search for responses from "himself". Lots of info has been discovered on mounting the GT3 bars in the stock 996 and boxster drop link location (pinch bolt) causing issues with wheel lift. Tarret now offers a solution to this which moves the mounting location to where it is on the GT3's (threaded bracket on the coilover).
Andy
That's almost identical to the picture of my girlfriend's BMW...when you've got the car really set-up in a turn and you are rolling on the throttle...well as you can see the car just squats and rolls over and the inside front ceases to do anything.
What types of tires are you running in this picture?
I was an active autocrosser for years & it almost seemed like a badge of honor among drivers to see who got their inside wheel the highest. Then I spent some time with a Solo II national champion who emphasized that through trail braking and smooth driving, he tried to Never get an inside wheel off the ground.
In his mind, it was all about weight transfer. If you turn too suddenly, too much weight transfer, the inside wheel goes up (you can see the exact reverse happen on FWD cars that lift an inside rear tire), and you now have only the traction of 3 tires rather than 4.
He worked to be so smooth that he kept all 4 tires on the ground and enhanced traction--and speed.
It's the result of a too soft suspesion, especially in the rear of a 911, exacerbated by a lack of suspension range (droop) in the front.
Watch Grand-Am or ALMS 911s. They have very stiff springs and you don't see them lifting wheels.
It could be described as good or bad, depending on the setup. On a road course not all corners are identical, and a car might be setup for the majority of corners, resulting in wheel lift in one or two others. In general it is a function of spring rates and antiroll bars. However, as Andy noted, it could also be caused/exacerbated by the setup itself.
When I had this setup (GT3 bars and short drop links), I could lift in virtually any type of corner. Some examples are below. As you can see, the wheel is lifting
a lot
. It looks like 4-5 inches - AND the rear tire is starting to lift also. This was on Hoosier R6s.
Just to clarify this piont, weight transfer is unavoidable, and not necessarily bad. You can't affect the total amount of weight transer with roll bars or springs or dampers since weight transfer is a function of ride height (center of gravity), wheel base (or width), and acceleration (lat or long). But you can affect the rate of weight transfer and the amount of suspension travel. The critical issue is controlling and utilizing weight transfer to improve handling under braking / cornering / acceleration.
That being said, you would typically want all 4 wheels in contact with the road so that the workload is properly shared. But that is not always possible.
-td
