996 Turbo buying advice

Hi guys - I've been lurking for a while but just got around to posting as I'm looking to buy my first P-car. I've looked at loads online over the past 3 months, run numerous Carfax and Autocheck reports and have consistently found issues with all the cars I�ve looked at (interestingly, the many of the cars that have not been serviced properly seem to come from Florida). Now I�ve found one that I think might be worth considering� I�ve found a 2003 996 Turbo, tiptronic with 41,000 miles on the clock for $49,500 from a private seller, almost perfect paint (minor swirl marks from polishing but no scratches, chips or dents) and a great interior. The notable options listed are full leather, Bose stereo, on-board computer (not sure what this is as it doesn�t have nav), PSM, tinted windows and auto-mirror with rain sensors. It doesn�t have nav or heated seats -- I don�t care about the nav but I�ll have to retrofit heated seats as I�ll use it in the winter in Vermont. The seller bought it as a Porsche certified car and it has just under 1 year left on the CPO warranty. As far as service history goes, the current owner had the big 30,000 service carried out at a main dealer which I have the paperwork for. I have tracked down the previous service history and spoken to the garages that carried out the work and the car had its 7,500 service in 2005 and then there is no record of any servicing until early 2010 when the current owner bought the car under the CPO scheme and had the 30k service carried out. I�ll have my Porsche garage run a PPI on it of course, but I obviously like the fact that the car has 1 year left of its Porsche warranty and that it was certified only last year, as well as the fact that I know the 30,000 service was properly carried out. It also started its life well being cared for by a Porsche garage up to the 7,500 mile service, but is the gap in the service record between 2005 and 2010 (7,500 and 30,000 miles) a concern enough to walk away, and if not what do you think a fair price would be for the car? I was thinking of asking the garage running the PPI to also include a compression and leak test as I don�t think Porsche include this in the PPI -- would you recommend this? Finally, are there any other options you would expect to see that I haven�t listed and which I might be able to use as bargaining power if I decide to make an offer? Many thanks in advance! Cheers Simon

Also, I meant to ask what should I expect to see in the way of service manual, warranty book etc that should come with P-cars. I assume it should also come with two keys? Cheers Simon

It should come with 2 keys, as well as all the manuals. Service records are hit or miss, but I like to have them when I buy used cars. The PPI should tell you quite a bit too. Most of what you listed as optional equipment is actually standard on the turbo. The only exception would be the rain sensing wipers and auto dim mirrors, as well as the tiptronic transmission. The transmission, however, may work in your favor. They are generally considered to be less desirable than the manual transmissions, and they go for slightly less money on the used car market. They are harder for sellers to move. How's the general condition of the car? Are there curbed wheels or wear and tear to the seats? These are other signs you can spot that sometimes tell you how a car was treated.

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The options read about 'standard'. These cars came pretty well optioned from the factory. Remember they sold for around $120K (or more) in '03. My 03 came with everything but the NAV system and heated seats. The gap in servicing is a bit troubling but the current condition of the car counts for something. If you can verify to a high level of confidence the car's condition and the engine's condition is acceptable then that gap means nothing. A compression test is an expensive and probably an unnecessary expense. The DME constantly measures the output of each cylinder during its power stroke (misfire monitoring) and if the DME detects a sub-par (or above par) performing cylinder it will turn on the check engine light. My advice is to visit/view the car with the engine cold. Turn off the A/C. Turn on the key and verify that all the warning lights -- including the very important MIL -- come on then go off. Start the engine. It should sound ok from the start though at cold start it might idle a bit rough with the rpms a bit over 1K but the rpms should drop as the engine idles and gains some heat. The idle speed should drop and get smoother as the idle speed approached the hot idle speed. Continue to let the engine idle and pay close attention to the engine's sounds. After the engine has idled long enough you can do an oil level check have the seller take you out in the car with you as a passenger. The test ride route should cover about 15 miles and involve all types of driving. You want the test driver to demo all aspects of the car. Its acceleration, but also, its braking, turning, ability to idle and take off from idle smoothly and upshift and downshift smoothly. If you like the car back at the starting point take the car out again on the same route this time with you driving the car. Drive the car the same way. This in total about 30 miles of driving gets the engine/drivetrain hot and if the engine is noisy it will be noisy after the test drive. If you still like the car give it a thorough used car checkout. Assume nothing works until you have checked it. Even though my 03 was a CPO car and had only about 10K miles on the car the battery vent hose was not present and the alignment sucked. If you still like the car after you have inspected it and verified *everything* works, and believe you can buy the car for a price that is agreeable to you and the seller, then have the car PPI'd. Have the DME overrev counts read and post here for analysis. Sincerely, Macster.

Look under the front boot, there should be a paper sticker with 3 or 4 character codes. You can decode the options with them. Or send Suncoast Porsche parts the VIN and they can email you the options. Michael.

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Thanks Dennis. Car is in great shape with no curbed wheels, good condition seats - the edges aren't worn at all. It does look like it's been well looked after.

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Thanks Macster. I'll definitely test the car in the way you describe. On the face of it there is nothing wrong with the engine, but a good listen/observation and a nice test drive should tell me alot. One of the Porsche techs I spoke to said that the tiptronics don't suffer from overrev because the computer prevents it from happening. Is that right? Thanks for the tip on the compression test. Some $$$ saved there already Simon

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Hey Michael - Thanks - this is the options list as derived from the VIN: Do you see anything obviously missing other than NAV and heated seats? BTW, I used this website to decode the VIN: http://www.autoatlanta.com/life/vin/vin.php?vin= Thanks Simon

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Unless the engine is dripping vital fluids through a hole in its block almost every engine on the face of it looks just fine. Most are (save those that obviously aren't). But you want to be sure, or surer. The natural state of these engines is running. They are useless lumps of metal when they are not running. Give the car and the engine and well everything a longish test ride/drive just to be sure. Better safe than sorry. All it takes is a few extra minutes of your time and all the time you're either riding in or even driving a Turbo. Poor baby. Might point out that the Tip is a very complex piece of hardware and you want to give it time to manifest any problems. While the Tip is immune from the money shift you still want to see the overrev counts to well make sure nothing untoward is present. Also, you want to see (possibly) how much the rev limiter has been hit. And last of all you want to see the engine run time and use this along with the car's odometer to help you get a feel the odometer value is real. Take the engine run time and divide this into the odometer reading. This gives you the car's average speed. The average speed should be around 30mph. It may be higher if the car has been driven on long trips at high speeds. The average will be lower if the car has been used for short hauls say in town. If the average speed gets too low though this raises the possibility of odometer tamper. It is just another way to gain more knowledge about the car that relates to its condition. Basically, this is where a buyer of a used car is at a disadvantage. He doesn 't know anything (usually) about the car. In a short time he must learn as much as he can about the car to the point he can make an informed decision about the car, whether to buy it because it is a good car or to turn it down because it is not a good car. OTOH, you want to avoid if possible turning down a good car. There is always another car so this is not as bad as buying a car you shouldn't have bought, but still you don't want to let a good car slip through your fingers too many times. This gives you another chance to buy the wrong car. Also keep in mind that even though the car is a CPO car, that if something is found that would be covered by CPO do not delay in getting it taken care of. While the repair/work is done under the CPO warranty the warranty on the work runs out when the CPO warranty ends. To make max use of the CPO warranty you want the repair/work done ASAP so you have the remaining CPO warranty time to protect you should the repair/work prove to not be up to par. Sincerely, Macster.

Might add it would be a good idea for you to visit the Turbo forum here and check out this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=46040 There's some mod stuff there which I'm not a fan of but there's some other info you might find of value. The more you know about these cars the better you'll do. Sincerely, Macster.

It's basically a stock Turbo. Other than tip, there are no extra cost options on the car. Good advice on the PPI. Other than that, the asking price is a little high (to be expected). If everything checks out shoot for 45 to 46, and you'l have a great car at a fair price. Good luck

My car only came with one key. The dealer said they would pick up the reprogram of both keys(250.) But my part would be 250. for the hardware. I'm somewhat miffed. Should I be pissed and demand a 2nd key at no charge?

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You could try to get them to pay for the key head , cutting the new key and reprogram, or in order to not be so demanding, buy the key head new at Suncoast, and have the dealer cut and reprogram, which is a bit involved, since they have to retrieve code numbers, and input thru the car's computer based on the new keyhead codes. Cutting a key is best left to knowledgeable individuals, local key smiths may not have the equipt for Pcar keys. OP, the car sounds very nice esp for an 03. I concur that for 45-46K, it'd be a fair deal; any less would leave some room for minor repairs. Any pics??

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Thanks again Macster. I ended up not buying the car as it had some electrical issues -- the stereo and air would cut out periodically and then one of the windows wouldn't always close fully. The owner said the issue hadn't come up before but the service records show he took it in to a garage complaining that the sounds would cut out on the stereo.I decided I have better things to do with my time than to diagnose electrical faults, so I passed. It was a shame because in all other respects it was a good car. On to the next one! Simon