2001 996 Blue Smoke, blown engine?

Hello All! Found out about Rennlist just over one year ago. For my 42nd Birthday my wife purchased a well maintained one owner 2001 996 c4. Dream of mine to own one. After the surprise, blue bow and all and my first drive the car was all I had ever dreamed. Only concern was 96,000 miles. Previous owner told my wife this is a quarter million mile car, just drive it. This is where these forum come in, I learned of RMS and LMS etc. took to heart the 90-95% of cars that do not have problems and proceeded to drive the car on weekends and sunny days "like I stole it". Only other sports car was mid sixties MGB of my youth so I would strongly defend abusing the car, that old MG taught me what a syncro was, drive it hard, like it seems to want... absolutely! On the anniversary of my ownership the car was taken to the independent who had performed regular oil changes for the previous owner and the same shop who change the oil and filter 4,000 miles and 10 months before. New oil filler tube was fitted along with a new alternator mysteriously died after being moved for fitting of new oil filler tube. $1,400 bill not crazy as these forums had me prepared for at least $1,000 annually on good maintenance. Hope I haven't lost too many of you! So the day after I receive the gift with no family wanting to come I took the car by myself for a day long drive through the twisty corners of the Crooked River Hwy outside of Bend Oregon. What a drive! The memory stayed in my mind for the past 11 3/4 months and yesterday with a fresh service and a lot more experience behind the wheel of this incredible car my only concern was sliding her off the road with 1 year too much confidence. (Keep in mind the total engine failures are kept in the back of my mind but always there). ** Here's the meat of the story, running fairly hard around the corners of this beautify stretch of road, 2nd and 3rd gear 45 - 85 mph I was exiting a corner full throttle in second gear and pushed up to 3rd on exit as the road straightened I glanced in my rear view mirror and saw a large plume of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust. Immediately pull it into neutral and idled to the side of the road. No warning lights on, can't remember a loss of power, but I knew I had a problem, was it a blown engine? As I sat at the side of the road I blipped the throttle lightly hoping it was not for real... more blue smoke... off with the ignition. Called AAA had a flat bed deliver the car to the local Porsche dealer. I explained the blue smoke and concern I'd lost the engine and they put it on the hoist. I didn't speak the the mechanic first hand but the service advisor explained that he didn't see any visible oil leaking at first but after some careful examination saw oil leaking at the "heads". He explained the only way to know more was to tear it down and see. Thousands of dollars! Did I want to trade it in? A new engine would be between 12,000 to 15,000 installed. No error lights, no oil on the ground, no marbles in washer sound, the dealer started it and idled it into the shop I started it and idled it out of the shop back on the flat bed to the independent. There was a good plume of blue smoke, I didn't rev it to see how much smoke but it was there! What do you all think? I'm sick my wife is sick, she want's it gone said maybe a newer one in a couple years, I don't want to be without the joy of the drive at my disposal. I don't know what to do, the independent will call me on Monday. Thanks all in advance! 2001996c4

Sorry to hear about your problem, however maybe taking a deep breathe then stepping back to calm down and wait for the Indy to diagnose and take it from there.

Could possibly be your aos. If there is no mixing of oil and water by checking the dip stick and coolant reservoir I would think that your aos might have gone south which will cause alot of smoke. This is only about a $120 part and is a diy but pain in the butt. Had it on my boxster and knew immediately the aos died but on the boxster the aos is much easier to get to. Best of luck and keep us posted.

I would get another opinion. There are many things that it could be and I am not sure it needs as full tear down to figure it out.

Thanks Mom! Not one to take a deep breath. I sure like the sounds of the AOS, I'll share that with my Indy. Any other thoughts are much appreciated, feels good to speculate! At least I'm doing something and the collective knowledge of Internet can't be under valued. Thanks again.

As already suggested, look at the oil dipstick and the inside the coolant tank. If oil and coolant look clear, not milky, could be just the AOS or oil was overfilled during change. Is the oil level too high? Happened to a friend of mine. Too much oil was added during oil change and he had blue smoke when driving hard. Freaked him out totally. Search AOS on this forum. Lots of examples of smoking due to AOS. Good luck!

sounds like classic over fill of oil problem have you checked the oil level...if up at the top and you are driving twisties it can do that.. I never ran my 996 any higher then the 1/2 way mark on the electronic meter or dipstick nice story, no pics?????

I'd hope the air oil seperator AOS is the problem. When going up and down in rpms with shifting that of course is going on the amount of vacume cycles betwen low and high probably exercising the diphram in the AOS which gives it more of a chance to fail in quick order instead of gradually. Doesn't take much oil to smoke things up anyway.

Would AOS be effected by very dusty driving comditions? Part of that road was gravel, car is perfect so I putted along but it was dry and very dusty! Does AOS inhale or vent? I'm starting to get a pulse back.

AOS is at the front top of the engine hard to get at but some I think have done it themselves without removing the engine. The device generally doesn't care what the car is doing when it fails. It sure lets you know its failed by having the engine blowing smoke. Check your intake. Disconnect the top of the plastic air filter box from the intake. I've heard if the AOS is the culprit that the intake will have abundant oil present.

Could also be oil cooler gone bad but lets hope fornthe aos. When mine went bad as I mentioned it was like smoking a blunt... Funny cause when the tow truck driver picked itnup and wanted to see the problem and i started it up and it was just smoking he immediately wanted me get it towed to his buddies shop to fix my blown head gasket. Oil was full and coolant clean so I knew it was the aos...

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...s-failure.html or Vimeo the below is from th video poster after the car was repaired at a dealer. "Definitely AOS failure, ~6 hours to replace, ~$840 total parts+labor. Dropped off the car at 10A, it's ready to pick up now." +1 oil over fill If it continues AOS Air Oil Separator is a fancy $$ positive crankcase ventilation valve, PCV. When they go bad, they can leak: antifreeze, oil, scream like a banshee, cause huge amounts of blue smoke. Do a search for AOS on this 996 site. Also on Renntech.org + http://pedrosgarage.com/Site_3/Repla...Separator.html (mostly Boxster but same type of engine)

AOS (PVC Valve for the Millenium) - Read Excellence Magazine current issue - all is explained.

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+1, oil just changed, start problem solving with the most basic problem, overfill. Then move to the others (AOS, x 51 pan, etc.).

FWIW, I overfilled my oil in March -- next spirited drive days later had a huge plume of smoke while accelerating. No lights, CEL or anything and car continued run fine (I was a mile from home when it plumed). Scared S-less! Took a quart of oil out of the system. The smoke persisted upon start up for the the next two days; that's key. Even after removing the oil, it took awhile to clear up. I just started it and let it idle 2-3 times a day. Then "upon the third day" all was fine. Not a single issue since. I wouldn't tear anything down until you work through the low cost /effort options. I know what you are feeling I went through the same thing. Not fun. I'm hoping that your situation is as "minor" as mine. But You do want to check the coolant tank to ensure you don't have this issue. This is what it looks like if you have an oil/coolant mix. You Tube

Thanks all, keep'em coming think I'll sleep tonight. Rennlist Rocks! Hope to return the favor someday.

Any word yet on the diagnosis?

I would second the overfill. I always look at the last thing that was done, and in your case, the oil change. Hopefully it's an aos at the very most.

Most posts with AOS usually exhibit white smoke and lots of it, but some have blue smoke. Other more expensive reasons for blue smoke can be worn valve guides/seals or worn piston rings. Mine had blue smoke mostly on high RPMs so I removed the heads for a valve job. After 5 totally shot valve guides were replaced and new seals no more blue smoke.

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worn valve seals, is this something where if you are coasting down a hill and then at the bottom get on the gas and some smoke comes out? I have seen a few cars of different makes do this, but i wasn't sure if it was the valve guides. For some reason i thought that the oil leaked down when off the gas and the burned up as you were getting back on it.

Yes, high rpm, then off the gas pedal, then blue smoke out the back.

I don't want you to underestimate your potential problem but... + one on the overfill and blue smoke. I know my car was a touch over the max fill line. Porsche dealer told me to drive it off; these cars do burn off oil. I saw a huge plume on my first lapping day shifting hard from 3rd to 4th, near redline. Car has been fine since. It has burnt off a quart of oil over the season, this incident included. Fingers crossed for my first all-weekend DE on Saturday...

Today's my actual Birthday and I just was given another Porsche! Well figuratively... my car is fine, as many have noted just overfilled with oil during the last oil change. Thank you all for your invaluable help and advice. Feel a little paranoid that I may have over reacted. Maybe too much knowledge about potential engine failures. Couple issues, for several hundred dollars shouldn't I expect a good independent to add the correct amount of oil during the change? Too happy to be upset with them, but want to make sure my expectations aren't too low. Basically ruined a family vacation and the anniversary of my first drive in the car. Bigger issue. Dealer... perhaps should remain nameless but. Had the car towed to the dealership where I asked for a diagnosis, honestly fearing the independent may have done something wrong and also hoped if the engine was blown Porsche and dealer might somehow come to my rescue. They couldn't look at it that night, I explained what had happened during my drive as noted in original post, and told them I feared the engine had blown. They knew my fears and put it up on the hoist the following morning. Service advisor said at first all looked good but then the technician saw oil leaking from around the heads. (No puddles in the parking lot at dealer or at roadside or on flat bed, so must have been very little.) He then explained there would be thousands of dollars invested in tearing the engine down to see full extent of the problem. Hey, we have a nice 2004 C4S out on the lot with just 26,000 miles and 6 months on a new crate engine! (More proof 996 blow engines, and mines just another one of them.) Should we have sales contact you? Numb, I said sure never know maybe they'll give me a ton in trade and I'll get steal on a new lower miles "S"! They offered me $9,500 for my car as it sat. (Taking into account it had a blown engine) My car and another $39,000 and I could have the 04' C4S. Glad I didn't have the money or they would have gotten a beautiful C4 with too much oil for $9,500. Careless I can forgive, that's what my independent is guilty of. (I hope not careless with things like torquing lug bolts or screwing oil drain plugs fully in or ____ or _____ etc.) But I feel exploited by the dealer, really who I should really be able to trust most. They could have made my day. Maybe the dealer and factory trained Technician should do what those on this forum have suggested. Check for oil and water mixing, does the oil look milky? NO. Are there signs of oil in the coolant tanks? NO. Is there a tell tail sign of RMS failure, big puddle of oil 24 hours after they first saw the car. NO. So we have a concerned owner of an expensive car who just had the oil changed who drove the car hard and it puffed a big blue cloud of smoke. He also has a trace amount of oil around his heads after 10 years and 100,500 miles! We won't tell him it might be an AOS or maybe too much oil, we'll sell sell him a new car! What do you all think? And thanks again.

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I think you've just eloquently pointed out the benefits of belonging to, reading and contributing knowledge to RennList! q

Great news! Doesn't get much better. Caveat emptor. Forums like this are priceless.

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great to hear this worked out for you. Shame on your local dealer...you gave him your worst fears and he fed on it. I have no idea where you are located (options on other local PCar dealiers) but I would take a short walk to collect my thoughts then set up a meeting with the store owner or GM. Tell him what happend. Let them make the next step to keep you as a client. Trust your gut on how they respond.

Glad it was not a big problem. You might consider doing your own oil changes. It's very easy, and then you know it was done right.

Whew!!! At MINIMUM, you should become a paying Rennlist Member. Help support the community that helps you and others!

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I would but I do not want to have to sign up for PayPal in order to become a Rennlist Member. If I could just pay by credit card or even mail a check... Sincerely, Macster.

WTF is that dealer thinking? Are you serious? I would have a nice long "chat" with the service manager in a closed office... that's for sure. And definitely change your own oil !!!

Many years ago I tried being a salesman at a new car dealership. Every morning we would watch training films. My favorite showed how to present a full MSRP list price sales contract. When the customer saw the full MSRP price he yells "you must think I'm so kind of idiot to pay full price"! The salesman responds: "No Sir I didn't think you were, but if you were I sure didn't want to miss you!

Great conversation with PCNA. Oddly enough received a survey via email this morning from my recent visit to my dealer. Started to complete the from by selecting the check boxes ranking "poor" to "excellent", gave up after selecting the lowest "poor" 4-5 times then selecting several "excellent" knew I would confuse the results... called the 800 number explained my story received a case# where they'll provide documentation of my disappointing visit to the dealer and myself. Feels a little better and I didn't want to deal with the BS the dealer might throw at me so went more or less to the top. I have one other dealer in Oregon so I'll be trying them next time I need some "professional" help. I will be picking up the car from the independent on Friday. Was informed of a high draw from my starter and recall reading a post on this forum about the routing of the power lead to the starter sometimes weakening and causing a power draw. I told them I just want to get the car home at this point so please make notes and we can address this next time in. (Not certain it will go back there though.) Did ask if I would be charged for the overfilled oil change that has caused me considerable grief. Good news I won't be charged for them to drain and correctly refill (sarcastic) but "YES" I will be expected to pay for the original bad oil change. Not a good answer! During the same original oil change, they also replaced my oil filler downspout as the original was cracked. The alternator was removed for access, then replaced, then failed. $890.00 new Bosch alternator and several hundred dollars to install. The owner asked the tech where he disconnected the power when he disconnected the alternator the tech pointed the the engine bay. Question: Is this an appropriate place to isolate the power so as to not fry the diodes in the alternator? The owner seemed to be expecting he had removed the power lead up front under the hood as the tech reference the power point in engine bay. Just want to confirm the alternator failure was just bad luck not another dumb move by the tech who overfilled my oil. Not sure why someone responded to the rennlist membership apparently on my behalf. I will be purchasing an annual membership and do have a PayPal account. Just need the password from my wife. Can't afford to not have this resource. Thanks again.

Macster, i was worried about pay pal too - but i went thru the membership process and you could choose credit card payment too. try it - i believe it will work, follow prompts. i feel proud being a member. vange

Okay, check that out "member"! Macster, as stated by vange just proceed like you have a paypal and you just plug in your credit card info... Done!

Not to change the subject, but you know I'm fed up with Paypal after being a "subscriber" there since they started. I'm seriously thinking about cancelling. Recently they thought my account had been stolen because I made a purchase while overseas. I went through a seemingly insurmountable number of hoops until finally they restored my account. I appreciate their desire to keep my personal info safe, but some people would be appalled at the amount of private information I had to give up to get my account restored (above and beyond the normal questions and info you would supply - apparently for those that do "international" transactions often). Anyways, I feel whatever concerns Macster has and certainly don't like divulging more than I have to in order to keep my identity safe. Perhaps abstinence would be the safer route.

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Dude, next time PM me or post here before you drop $900 on a new generator!

In my opinion they fried the alternator with the oil tube change.

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Ok. Done. Bring on the girls. Where's the confetti? How come no one's celebrating but me? Sincerely, Macster.

All, what is the correct procedure for power disconnect when servicing? Remove power under hood or in engine bay? Trying to determine if the alternator fry was caused by incorrect power disconnect or just bad luck? I'll be checking the part to determine I was sold a $300-$400 remanufactured Bosch alternator for $900.00. I'll let you know. Really feel I should be asking for my money back for the poor oil change. I'd kick myself if I'd have done it my self but I paid a pro to do it for me, you'd think it would be done correctly. Final thoughts would be appreciated! Then this goes behind me with some lessons learned. ivangene - You asked for some photos! Best one with the bow... the first, some beauty shots then the worst up on the flat bed.

All the times I've watched the techs remove power from one of my cars they disconnect the leads at the battery. I do not recall the order but the order is given in the owners manual and the factory manual. In some cases the tech will connect a shop 12V power source to keep the car's confort settings alive or to provide some other source of power which is known for instance when trouble shooting a fuel pump to ensure the car's 12V system is not the source of a non-functioning fuel pump. If one is going to reach into the engine compartment for anything electrically related the power should already be off. Disconnecting the power inside the engine compartment at the starter or some other location is not right. There's too much risk in those tight quarters accidentally shorting something that one shouldn't. Sincerely, Macster.

They are really f-ing with your car. The proper was to do a starter removal is with step one....... Disconnect the battery. Normally i wouldn't raise hell, but i would since they seem to not have competent mechanics. They ruined your alternator that was probably in perfect working condition. I would threaten with the bbb and to spread the word. About 3 years ago i had a timing belt and water pump replaced at the local toyota stealership. After driving it 5 minutes i smelled something burning. It got my attention, but since they replaced the coolant, i thought that it was that or something left near there that was burning. I got home and looked under the hood and didn't really see anything out of the ordinary. The next morning going to work, the battery light came on. great. I got to work and wiggled all connections to make sure it wasn't something left loose from the mechanic. The culprit was a fried connection at teh alternator. The tech didn't tighten the bolt and it arced and fried the ceramic under the bolt and it was crushed as i was tightening it as i thought he just forgot to tighten it. There wasn't much force required to do it either. I went the polite way for the first day or two and was set up in a loaner car while they looked at it. They told me that the alternator that i replaced 6 months ago wasn't tightened and that was the reason. So they were basically telling that replacing the alternator 6 months ago was my issue where clearly they had to move/remove the alternator to get to the tb/wp. It took me a few days but eventually i got it replaced. I even went as far as faxing a copy of the receipt from advance auto so they could exchange it, but advance auto balked as i didn' take it in to get it replaced. After fighting with them they replaced the alternator and battery for free. I didn't need the battery but they did it anyway. Your mechanics past history tells me they are in a hurry/not experienced/ don't care etc. I would find their diagnosis unacceptable and would go half at the very most of the normal replacement cost (parts) since it seems like they messed it up.

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man, mine did fail last year, i spent $179 for a rebuild one from autozone with life-time warranty.

Sorry to hear you got screwed around by somebody overfilling your oil. Same for the dealer being given the symptoms and not knowing or the service department being too connected to the sales department with their greed. At least next time around you know trouble shooting can get real answers instead of mech shops estimates to finance their houses.