Crashed 996 - What to do?

Hello - I'm 25 and I recently purchased my first car nearly two months ago... a black 2001 Porsche 911 (no financing). I talked it over with some friends and they suggested that I get higher liability insurance and not get any personal coverage for the car (I was going to get personal insurance previous to this). Anyway, a few days ago it rained in Las Vegas for the first time in several months and I accelerated onto an onramp, going about 30 MPH in 2nd gear when the car fishtails on me. Not knowing what to do I took my foot off of the gas and brake and tried to steer my way out of it. The problem exacerbated and it eventually swung around clockwise and hit the outside divider having me facing traffic - damaging the driver side rear corner, suspension and bending the car slightly in the appropriate direction. It looked fairly minor to me at the time, I figured a few thousand and I I'd try to learn from my mistake. The repair estimate came a couple days ago at $16.6k which blew me back. I put about $23k into getting this car up and running after everything was said and done. I'm planning on getting a third estimate soon. It seems like I have a few options (that I have think of) A: Pay the repair bill out of pocket B: Sell the car for parts and figure something out later. C: Buy a busted Porsche and merge them into one functional Porsche. D: Buy the parts myself and supply them to an autobody shop to reduce the cost of the repair bill (it looks like this route could be confusing to an amateur but could save me a few thousand). E. Anything else? Recommendations? I'm completely confused and I've tried to do as much research and thinking about this as I possibly could to arrive at those above options, all of which seem reasonable lines at the moment. Pictures provided below of car and repair estimate ----------- The car was bent slightly from the impact - hard to see in this picture --------

Looking at what they want I'd figure buying another car would be easier. Could turn that one into a track car. If police showed up you'll probably get a bill in the mail for the guard rail repair. I'm thinking you might have a bent rear axle besides the rim. Sorry to hear you lost it.

I just glanced at the estimate and noticed leather armrest for $589? I think this shop is padding a bit, no?

An estimate is exactly that. You can guarantee there will be surprises along the way. In the end you will spend the best part of the price of an unbroken one. Sell it for what you can get and move on. Tough to swallow but that's what I would do.

Sorry about the mishap. Didn't insure the car??? I am speechless...........

Did any door airbags deploy? The shop seems to want to replace some expensive interior parts that cover them. You could save a lot of money sourcing some of the major assemblies used. The prices quoted seem to be full price. Check with 20th St or dCAuto... But you are going to have to translate the estimate into part numbers. Also note repairs to the roof. Does the damage extend that far? Another estimate is a good idea.

I would ask those friends to help pay for the damage! JK... Sorry to hear of your accident. At least no one was hurt. The question I always ask myself when it comes to collision insurance is "Do I have the cash on hand to replace the car tomorrow?" If the answer is no, I get collision insurance! Case in point: I bought a Mazda Miata for 2k to fix up, I didn't buy collision on that one, But when I get my 996. I will certainly get it! Joe

First, it is written as an insurance estimate and not a customer pay estimate. In your situation, you need to make sure they know that you would be paying the bill. Second, I don't understand why they need to repair the Right Rear Quarter panel (6 hours worth) or why they need to replace the roof covering ($1500 in parts and 8 hour labor). Those 2 items alone add up to over $2K. Third, over $1000 for one wheel? There are plenty of lower cost options to consider here. Just out of curiosity, did the body shop offer to buy your car if you decide not to get it fixed?

I don't think the car is "Bent" the rear engine cover might be pushed off to the side and need to be re-aligned, but I did not see any frame damage estimated in the quote. I agree with the above poster that the shop seems to be putting a lot of extra parts on the list. I can see suspension, wheel, quarter panel, bumper repair and engine cover repairs. But some of that stuff seems excessive.

Everybody here has given you great advice. Now that the shock is wearing off, I would strngly suggest that you get at least two more estimates from reputable places, then compare note. Either way the "lesson" will be expensive, but when you can compare the estimates, you will better be able to determine what needs to be replaced. Informed decisions will make the fixing process easier, should you choose to go that route. Since you might be paying for the repairs, find a decent shop that you can trust and talk with....then you can determine what is really needed to get the car back on the road, even if it is not cosmetically perfect, it will be safe and enjoyable to drive. As you get more money, you can fix the cosmetic issues, later. It seems right now, the shop that gave you the estimate sees you as a gulible (sp) you guy who might be trying to bend you over a bit...don't let them do that to you. Sorry for the mishap, glad you're not hurt.....good luck with moving forward. r\ scott

It's difficult to tell for sure from the photos, but I'm very doubtful that you could have done as much damage as the estimate suggests. And there are some VERY inflated costs listed there. The $1000 wheel for one really jumps out at me. As others have suggested, find a couple of reputable shops, and work with them on making the repairs affordable. I'd check out Oklahoma Foreign as a source for parts at a discount. When I wrecked my race car a few years ago, they were very helpful, and saved me a little dough.

By shopping around and using some used parts I think you could cut the parts cost by 50%. Shoot, for the price they quote for one wheel you can get a complete set, particularly 17" wheels. There are lots of bumper covers floating around, look on eBay. Most if not all of the suspension parts could be sourced on a used basis, check Oklahoma Foreign and some of the other Porsche breakers. You could put on the suspension parts yourself and then have an alignment done. Rear taillight for $523+, buy a used one on eBay for a coupe of hundred, or get a set of LED's on Amazon for about $300. The biggest challenge will be the quarter panel. With a little creativity and some of your own work you should be able to get the repair down to the $8,000-$10,000 range, maybe less. Take some of the savings and buy some collusion insurance!!!

1 Utterly amazing,own a 996 with liability only. 2 Find a private bodyshop,work a deal for cash with owner 3 Get new friends

Sorry to hear about your mishap. However, I hope you have learned that insurance is NOT something you pass on unless you can walk away from the car if it's wrecked. If it's a <5K beater, then sure, but a Porsche? Baffled on that one.

Seems like your user name is accurate......... Where are you located?

He says in post 1 that he is in Las Vegas. BTW, having lived in Vegas I can tell you that the on ramps when it rains that one time a year are brutal. Especially for a new rear-engine owner. All the oils, etc make it a death trap for the rookie. That's where my wife wrecked her 996CAB. She lost the rear at LOW SPEED and lifted as she had always done in her previous front engine car). Wrong decision. We too thought a few grand in damage but it was well over 10K. It's that ONE time you need insurance that all those years of premiums pay off.

I suggest a set of used wheels, a good alignment and get out to your local track for some one-on-one driver training - THEN think about fixing it sorry that was just mean so as other have said, get a couple more estimates - dont cheap out but there seems to be a lot of parts in there I would question because they are suspension parts and an alignment guy would know if those were still OK - IMO also I saw a car come thru the shop the other day that the owner was ni the same boat with... his bill was $48k on his GT3 that hit something in the front..... out of pocket! - rememeber, could be worse. best of luck

About 10 years ago, my youngest daughter (who we affectionately called "crash") took my Lexus SC300 out for a ride with her friends. It was lightly raining. She took a corner, and the rear end started to break loose. She turned the wheel the WRONG WAY, and the car did a 360. At the end of the spin, she hit the curb. Bounced over it, breaking both wheels on the right side, and bending the frame of the car. Sounds similar to what you faced. I never understand why people don't buy insurance. If you want to save money that is NOT the place. I was in the National Guard in Omaha when a tornado came through. Tore up a residential neighborhood really badly. Nearly every home on a 3 block stretch was totaled. It was a mature neighborhood, so nearly everyone had paid off their homes - and then canceled their insurance!!! So, here they were, sitting on their concrete stoop with nothing - no spare clothing, no personal possessions, no house. The insurance was not for the lender, it was for the owner!!! But some people don't get it!! Not to beat a dead horse, but you obviously missed that lesson. Liability insurance is for the GUY that you hit. If he's driving a big mercedes, or bentley, or bmw or whatever, your Liability insurance will pay for the repairs to HIS car. If you get into a bad multi car accident, you could easily outspend your 100K in liability coverage. Which is why you want big coverage. How much depends on the value of the other cars in the area you normally drive. Collision is for YOU. You bump, or wreck your car, it is collision that pays for the repair. If you had a loan on the car, you would have had collision insurance. The bank would have required it. The fact that you don't have a loan doesn't change the requirement. You are now sitting on the stoop with those Omaha homeowners. My advice? If the frame on your car is bent - as it seems - since they have frame straightening time on their estimate, accept the fact that you messed up, sell the car for scrap, and put the money together to buy another that will be properly insured. Repairs to these cars is not the province of the cheapest body shop. You will regret it. No body shop will welcome you coming in for some repairs with a pick-up truck full of spare parts. "Hey, would you install these on my car?" And, you don't want to go cheap in getting the car fixed. Maybe for a Chevy Cavalier, but not a Porsche. That is just not a wise investment. Just accept the fact that you learned your lesson, get some new friends who are mature enough to give you sound advice, and start saving for a new Porsche. Sorry to hear your story, it's a tough problem, and a sad lesson to learn. (Sorry for the lecture - the father in me came out.) larry

Pcars are indeed pricey to fix after a accident. My car got just a little love tap while parked at work. The damage is $8200. That happened 11/24/10. The car has been in the shop since 12/01 and I won't have it back for another 2 weeks. New body parts can take a long time to arrive. I also got rearended 2 years ago and the driver who was texting while she plowed into me took off. My insurance (uninsured motorist) foot the $13,000 bill and I had to pay my deductible. That took 2 1/2 months to get my car back. Needless to say this will be a slow process for you to get it fixed. I would contact a parts wholesaler (Oklahoma for one) and sell it and save up for your next car. I won't comment on the lapse of judgement on insurance. Sorry to hear this.

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Geez you're full of luck aren't you!

Pete do both those show on your carfax now? You are going to be forced into keeping your car and just enjoying the hell outta it... better get shopping for new toys

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No $hit.......just got new snows and I haven't even driven the damn thing in the snow!

Sorry, I have to say it but unless one's "friends" are willing (and able) to financially cover anything, then one should not listen to such "friends" when it comes to financial decisions.

I have a rear bumper and probably almost all the suspension parts you need and would sell them to you for a lot less. Let me know if you are interested,

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+100000000, and wrong 1st car! Sell the car and get yourself something more your skill level. "theskillzdatklls" Yes your skilz killed your car! Find a nice camaro with a 6cyl. Drive it for a little then move to the v8 then come back to the Porsche. You should get out of the porshce enough to pay outright for a nice camaro. I may sound harsh.. I am sorry this has happened.

You could also now go get a loan on the car to fix it. Since you have the title.

Sorry it happened.... As another thought... I have a friend here in Los Angeles who I'll check with who has been restoring wrecked high end cars for years. He has some body guys who do just the labor / paint he wants and he supplies the parts. Los Angeles is a much larger market for these sorts of shops. I spoke with an indie P Car repair shop in Las Vegas last year when I was looking at a car there.... Can't remember the name but he was a real pro and kept me from making a 26k mistake. A mechanic might give you a better perspective on what needs to be done under the skin.....

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Good point but may or maybe not? Depending on the bank, they might require collision/comprehensive coverage and he can't do that now because the insurance company won't add such coverage without taking photos of the car.

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Don't know....how do I check?

Thanks for the very helpful advice everyone I will be sorting through what everyone has said in great detail over the next few hours / couple days when I have some time. I do have cash on hand to replace the car because I am currently saving up to buy a house in August-December of this coming year, but it clearly isn't something I'm thrilled about doing. In the future if I get a car like this or repair this one I'll have some $5k deductible insurance coverage so that I'll be OK in these situations. The other repair estimate that I have lists all the item numbers required so I do have them on hand. Is there a good website that I can enter these numbers into and purchase some parts that I can't find on ebay or other places? Here are some more pictures: Thanks again everyone!

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Huh? 5K deductible? You mean $500 right?

I have mine set at $500 for collision and $0 for everything else. The difference is nominal and in the long run just one repair will have easily covered the low ded. The good news is that you are looking to buy in Vegas correct? In that case you won't need much of a down payment since the market is in the f'in toilet.

Get a better estimate. Get it fixed. Laugh about it years later when your kid wrecks their first car. You learned a lesson...get back in the saddle.

What kind of tires did you have on it. Been thinking of going to summer tires and slowing down in the rain but now............ewwwww

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Kent Moore of Premier Sports Car Service? I strongly recommend you have him look at the car and advise you. He's a straight shooter... Are you telling these shops that this is a cash repair versus a insurance company job? There's just a ton of fat in those estimates. Talk to Kent for the mechanical repairs, have him recommend a local body shop that will work with you for cash and allow you to buy parts, and buy what you can from Viking (another straight shooter). Don't hesitate to take it down here to So Cal, we have a great shop that works cheap for cash and does Porsches all day long.... You have options but if you choose to sell it contact me...

PS: Did your insurance agent explain the idiocy of saving a few hundred bucks on collision/comp. insurance for a Porsche? I can't believe they didn't lecture you....

Could of been a staggering price for him at his age. Not even including any prior record of accidents and tickets. At 25 I was quoted $3,000+ year in 1987 for the first of the sport bikes. That was half the price of the bike. Now its cheap insurance and $500 for a ticket Must of cost extra for bottle necking the hwy traffic to talk to me.

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Kids don't listen when strangers lecture them about the obvious consequences of something that already happened after the fact....

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Hmmm do you have contact info for that guy?....

I work in the insurance industry and we distribute through independent agents - problem these days is that most 20ish folks just go on-line and when you have competitors like Progressive out there saying you can "name your price" for insurance, you normally end up with something like this!! Rarely is any of this really explained well, but like the other posts have recommended - just chalk it us as an expensive lesson and get the car fixed and back in the saddle!!!

Sorry. Real bummer. You made a good decision already by asking for help/ideas. You've got several options. First, don't be in a big hurry to solve everything immediately. This can be a real learning experience if you let it. What others have said about getting an "I'm paying" estimate is good advice. Don't know why it's true but it is. When you're paying you will frequently find that the estimate will be lower. There are body shops and then there are body shops. You'll have to ask a lot of people to find the "right" one. Ask local PCA/BMWCCA members for suggestions. Guys that race frequently know a lot about body shops. Good mechanical repair shops know a LOT about local body shops. The two earlier suggestions about using the shop in LA sound like a course worth exploring. Maybe there's a shop like that nearer to you. Porsches are expensive. Yours was probably $70+ new. Parts can be unbelievable. Sourcing stuff yourself will save you a ton if you can find a body shop willing to work with you. And your car doesn't have a "frame"; it's a unibody chassis. IF it's bent, a shop with the right jig equipment can straighten it without a lot of work/time. Anyway, first thoroughly explore the fix-it option before moving on to the others you've identified. Good luck.

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Tough situation. The shop quoted you prices it did cause it uses the estimate tool most other shops use. Also, the estimate's rough cause a good (better) estimate requires what the body shop will refer to as a 'teardown'. This means the body shop will want to remove at least the bumper cover or covers at the damaged end of the car. The rear fender/quarter panel is not removeable (without cutting sheet metal) but other body panels can be removed. Anyhow, most of the time the desire is to put the car back into its pre-collision condition and new/factory parts the way to go. To ensure the car retains any warranty Porsche requires parts be bought from PCNA, and ordered through an authorized dealer and all mechanical parts installed by a Porsche tech. Lastly, Porsche wants the tech to inspect the car and road test it before the car is deemed ready to put back into service. I do not know what you are capable of in the way of car repair. First I'd take the car to a qualified shop in your area. I can't remember the name of the shop now but there's a body shop in Las Vegas that has a very good rep repairing Porsches (and other similar makes of cars). Speak with the owner and explain your situation. Ask him what he advises, can do for you. For some parts -- interior parts for instance -- you can source same from a salvaged vehicle. But you have to know the business you're using. You want to have some expectation of getting parts that are in better shape than the parts you are replacing. Also, wheels. It shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement wheel and mount a new tire. The shop owner I bet will almost certainly advise you to bring in the car -- and have his guy check the car's chassis/tub for any damage, bending, twisting, etc. To do this requires removing some running gear -- front and rear bumper covers maybe headlights/taillight assemblies, front and rear wheels/tires and so on -- then the car is placed on a Celette Bench. The tech will use the proper jigs/fixtures -- generally these are rented from Celette which believe it or not is the right way to do this cause it is Celette that ensures the jigs/fixtures are kept in tip top shape -- to check the location of all hardpoints. These hardpoints must be in proper location or panels/etc will not fit right. Porsche doesn't provide much leeway, if any, in these locations. You want the tub/chassis straight and everything in its proper location so the final wheel alignment does not require the Porsche tech use all the suspension/steering adjustment to bring the car into a proper alignment. This is the sign of a bad repair and the car will almost certainly not drive right and its steering, suspension and drivetrain can suffer accelerated wear if the car is 'straightened' on the alignment rack rather than where it should have been straightened: on the Celette Bench. If the chassis/tub not too bad the shop can pull the thing straight for you. If the chassis/tub too bad then at least you know. But if the shop deems the car's basic structure sound and suitable for repairs, then you move forward. Provided you can reach an understanding and agreement (in writing...) with the body shop on how to proceed. You want a good repair - which almost certainly means no straightening of damaged body parts, no bondo, etc., and no aftermarket/3rd part mechanical parts like radiators, A/C condensors, etc., but you can accept some salvaged parts. The body shop has experience in this area and can reject any that are unsuitable. Sincerely, Macster.

I just purchased my P and looked very hard at insurance. I decided to insure mine for slightly more than I paid for the car through a collectors policy. I have my P on a stand alone policy. I'm not as concerned about me wrecking it (although that is possible - crazy fast and more ***** than brains) as I am about some dipS*%t hitting me. Since I got this car I find changing lanes is hard since people like to pull up next to me and look at it. That's when the power helps out. I'm practicing this for when a CHP gets me for excessive speed!

I think he meant $5k so its cheap as hell and you only use it when you absolutely have to just to save yur *** though I could be wrong

Yeah..I think he meant 5k also. I had forgotten how high insurance was when we were younger until this post. When I was younger, I did the math and could afford a nice '79 Trans Am...but when I got the insurance costs there was no way. I ended up with a F^&% Ford Tempo! Oh the regrets!!!!

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$5k is still too high, IMO. The difference between levels is almost negligible on a yearly premium. Since the OP is in Vegas, just go to the strip clubs and casinos less, it should cover the yearly premium.

The way I see it, the motor is worth $10K and the transaxle another $5K. Some other miscellanous bits and you see that the parts are worth more than the cost of the (outrageous) repair quote, and possibly even the car tself before you crashed it. My advice, which is worth exactly what you paid for it, is to part the wreck out. You'll be rid of the headache and have enough cash to buy yourself another 996. Maybe the new one won't be a black cab with chrome 17" wheels, but you know what...that's not necessarily a bad thing. Do not pay $1K for a chromed 17" twist wheel by the way...Worth $200 *tops*. As far as insurance goes...you take your chances and sometime you get burned. I carry a high deductable myself, $1K on collision. That woudl be fine and all if my &^$% wife would stop running into things. So far the cost repairing her little indiscretions has been less than the deductable, but at least I'm covered for when she (or me) has a big off. Tough luck chap. How sexy does (rear engine) Porsche mystique seem now?

The motor is not worth $10k, not when you can get a used one for ~$5k from a junkyard. I say the same thing when people talk about the "cost of a broken motor".

I had a brand new Mustang GT, back in '87, when I was 19. I couldn't afford the collission so just had liability. I lucked out and survived without any accidents. I guess I am just saying you aren't the only young guy making a bad choice... you just got unlucky. In the future you probably should buy a car you can afford full coverage insurance on. Get $1,000 deductible. When you are old, and rich, then you can go with out comprehensive if you want as you can self insure. However, when a youngster gets a fast car they should have full coverage! Shifting gears slightly I think it's great you bought a cool car when you were young. Maybe you couldn't quite afford it but that's a lesson learned. I almost bought a 911 at 25, 30, 40... and keep waiting. You are smart to just plunge in. Good luck!

what kinf of insurance do you guy carry for your 996 ? for example what amount to you carry for value of car replacement for uninsured motorist ? I think most our car worth +- 20 - 25k but repair cost might be higher than vehicle cost let's say if the engine is wrecked, so what value do you cover for ? 25k or 50k ?

You live and you learn, but if you couldn't afford full coverage on your 996 which you paid Cash for, then you couldn't afford the car! this sucks man so sorry to hear

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totally agreed. when i had "records" my ins was high and i was in my 20's. i did some progressive and other off the wall cheap stuff. luckily i never had mishaps. now i have a real "agent" with state farm. it's not that i care about state farm but i love my agent. they really know their product and some claims i made they really help to get me everythign i can. wife car got hit. i called to get paid out. then they asked did i baby seat in there? i said yes why. they said they will pay out on those seats too. i have some rather expensive recaro baby seats, they didn't blink. follow up was great. paper work was great. kept calling me to make sure everything and everyone was ok. find an agent who will work FOR you. b/c when **** hits the fans, u have plenty to worry about and this is not something you want to stress over at that time. off my soap box.

Wow that was one hell of a first post... As usual, lots of great advice, take a step back, talk to some recommended repairers, and go look at the numbers. Sounds like a good way to go. Good luck.

Eventhough the value of the early years cars are the low 20's or even below it now but in my mind, mine worth a lot more as I have put in countless of hours babying it, modding it and so much love to this thing. I am sure many of you have done the same thing too. So now I do enjoy my P as much as possible and at the same time being super careful and adopt a defensive driving style in heavy traffic area Would hate anything to happen to it either due to my fault or someone else. I feel bad for the OP but I am sure he will come out stronger than ever from this. Cheers.

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You guys are well off track by blaming any part of this kind of thing on Progressive or thinking that they're some fly-by-night insurance company. Almost everyone I know of that uses them (including myself for over ten years now) speaks very highly of them. The best experiences I've ever had in dealing with a car insurance company have been with these guys.

If you don't or can't fix the car give Oklahoma Foreign a call. When my 08 Cayman S was hit (and afterwards declared a total loss) and I retained salvage rights to the vehicle (complete with a salvage title) I called around and OF offered me a bit over $17K for the car as it where is. The car as in Livermore CA and of course OF was located in IIRC Oklahoma City OK. Before the offer though I had to send an email with high res pics attached. Pics were views of the front, sides, rear, interior of the car, intended to show the extent of the damage and confirm the options and odometer reading. A few days later the offer was made. The way I was told it worked as I would get half the offer via an electronic transfer to whatever account I specified right away and the other half would follow as soon as the truck driver called the OF office to let the office know the car was on the truck. Very tempting considering at various times I had been told the car was worth from a low of around $6K to a high of around $13K. (Oh, car just under 4 weeks old with from new miles of 2240 and had cost me $50.6K (marked down from a sticker of $62.6K.) However, through a contact I managed to offer the car for sale at a very large auto auction facility in its weekly wrecked/salvaged cars auctions. The car sold at auction for $20.7K and my offer to pay the usual seller's fee (I forget how much this was but roughy guess it was a few hundred dollars) was declined. Give OF a call and see what you might be offered. Oh, I called another business that advertised offers to buy wrecked Porsches located in Florida. But OF closer to you than Florida. There are probably others around -- Parts Heaven maybe here in Hayward CA. Check the ads in PCA's Panorama magazine or in the Excellence magazine for businesses that deal in buying and parting out wrecked Porsches and give each one a call. You never know which one might have a nice interest in your car. Sincerely, Macster.

Get insurance on the house!

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That's a big roll of the dice, must be in the air out there. Good learning experience. I'd recommend he fix the car at local shop that is willing to search for used components to keep the price down. Additionally he should make the friend who offered the poor advice drive him around while it's getting fixed.

Maybe just settle the suspension problems then crusie with the porsche club guys once in a while till they come up with a good deal to fix the body so that they don't have to cruise with a ragged 996 Not joking too much but I have seen some very ugly body conversions to cover trashed bodies of prosches. Like I mentioned in my first post. If the police know the accident happened then it takes some time till you receive a bill for the damaged guard rails and possibly responding ambulance. An aunt hit a guard rail back in 73 driving one of our family cars and that rail repair cost 5k to my Dad the owner of the car. Don't expect any mercy these days since prices are way higher and jurisdictions are money hungry.

I have three daughters in their 30's who are all married with kids. So, I'm a happy grandfather. But it never ceased to amaze me while they were growing up that they - even up until this past year - felt so indestructible, that they never bought insurance unless it was mandated by law. One daughter went 4 years without health insurance, in spite of the fact that earlier tests had shown that there "might" have been a problem with her liver. It all passed without incident, and now she has health insurance for herself, husband and 1 year old boy, but never felt it necessary to have any health insurance on herself while she was single. Another daughter, whose husband owns a restaurant, went 5 years in their condo without any insurance on its contents. The association paid for insurance for the building at large, but they had no insurance on their jewelry, musical instruments, electronics, etc. Of course, the son-in-law wouldn't run his business without insurance, but personal insurance - - - - Naaaaah. These young kids somehow think that they're indestructible. They will never get sick, never have a fire or theft in their house, never have an auto accident. It is only after they pass the trial by fire, as OP has, that they realize the wisdom of their elders. My kids said to me - "Look, I am my own person. Why can't you just let me make my own mistakes." My response was always, "I have already made these mistakes, can't you think of some NEW ONES to make?" Sorry for your pain. It's an expensive lesson that is probably taking as much a toll on your emotions as your pocketbook. larry

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LOL! +1 on that!

Sorry to hear about the mishap. One option is to consider contacting Los Angeles Porsche Dismantler and see how they price your car. Here's the website: http://www.ladismantler.com/index.php?page=staff good luck.

Back in 1989 when I was 20 years old, lived in NY, bought my first Porsche ('77 924), when my parents were on vacation. I could only afford liability insurance - I think it was $800 a year. I think bought the car for $2,400. Kept it for about 3 years before I sold it - luckily never had an accident. Public transportation would have been the only option if I did. Best of luck - I would get additional estimates and look at seeing if they will let you supply the parts - you could easily save thousands online and on E-bay. Not sure if you are mechanically inclined, if so, see if a shop will let you work they as a laborer or assistant to help pay off the bill and learn how to work on the car yourself.

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Poor form dude....you need to pay your $15 and go to the 'Off Topic' section with a post like this. Revision: Don't need to be a member for OT.....ooops

Actually you need to be a paid member to view OT and For Sale. So yes, very poor form and I imagine deleted by the mods here shortly so this thread does not end up in OT.

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Great information, Macster. I'll archive this for future reference. When I got my pcar, my insurance man said that I should go with a lower deductible, which was only $50/yr to go from $2K to $0.5K. Mine is not a DD. After reading this thread, it certainly makes sense to revisit my policy for the unimaginable. Case in point, I was at the gas station the other day, and some idiot in a black Honda decided he passed by the "good gas pump" and threw his vehicle in reverse and floored it. Came about a foot from hitting my pcar (I was laying on the horn when I saw him coming.) It could have been another photo series for "wreckedexotics.com". Good luck with the repairs SDK. Life is short. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Tire Tires Tires ! How many time does someone purchase a Porsche and forget to replace the 6 8 or 10 year old tires on the Low Mileage P car... and then get caught in the rain? Count me as someone who left the old tires on for "one more year". Add a little rain and a little gravel and destracted attention to a new curve... and end up upside down in a ditch. I learned my lesson - but had good a Insurance Co. to "Sell my C2 to". Now the first thing I include in a new purchase is Tires. (and Insurance!)

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Add one. I didn't mention anything when I first saw it since opening wounds isn't........but..........

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I'll say it for you...no tread left on those old tires.

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Well after dad bought him the car for collage grade. He burnt the tires off and still didnt have a job and couldnt afford them... Just busin yo *****. Skilz!

First off, good thing you're okay. That's far and away the most important. Secondly, lots to learn here and it seems like you want too, so that's great too. In my humble opinion, you're not humble enough or knowledgeable enough to drive a rear-engined car yet. Your handle and your bald tires, and yes your subsequent wreck attest to that. 911s have a 40 year record off being a fickle mistress and biting the the hand of the overconfident. Now for the good part, I'm guessing you could sell off your car for parts and buy yourself a good condition base 986 without spending a dime or if you want to spend a couple extra dollars you could get a Boxster S. They are still great cars, the mid-engine will be an easier platform to learn on, and you will be surprised at how soon you come to realize the cars (even humble base boxsters) are far better cars than you are a driver (or me, or many of us, for that matter). These cars have 50 some odd years off racing technology bred into them. At your age, we usually have a pitiful drivers ed class and a couple donuts in a parking lot by comparison...

Sorry to hear that... But the good news is that you are OK. My advise, SELL THE CAR 15years ago, I bought my first Porsche (944) with my school tuition (without my parents knowledge), drove it home from Switzerland, long story short, a deer ran out in front of me just next to the danish border.... No full coverage, just like you. I fixed the car, but I never stop hating it, it cost me all my money, and heaps of trouble (follow up problems occurred).... Too this day I hate the 944 model... Good luck with what ever you do.. PS. ever since that incident I have always been over insured

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Losing $5k isn't a devastating amount of money to me so I don't mind paying this out of pocket if it came down to it. I don't go to strip clubs and I base my income around gambling - I'm a professional poker player, but I've never put even $1 towards any pit game or slots since the day that I've been here and I plan on keeping it that way. My original thoughts on insurance were as follows (this comes from in part being a poker player and advice from poker player friends): -Insurance companies are looking to make money -Giving insurance companies money must be a -EV (negative expected value) investment. I.E. You give an insurance company 1k, you can expect to see (hypothetically), in the long run, $500 returned to you so they can keep their $500 profit. -I'm trying to limit the amount of money I put towards -EV investments since that undoes what I do for a living. -Only liability insurance is required and I have the financial means to keep going in the event of an accident. My original plan was to go for the maximum deductible personal and liability insurance but I was told to, if being cheap, go for higher liability and no personal insurance... so I opted out of personal insurance and boosted the liability insurance by two notches I believe. I'm insured under Amica.

You obviously walk to the beat of a different drummer. For many us here $5K is a good chunk of change. What surprises me is that being a professional poker player...you should know what are good bets and bad bets. Total coverage auto insurance is a good bet.

I've read through everything very thoroughly I appreciate the critical and constructive advice here... I'll definitely have some level of personal insurance coverage either on this car if I can figure out a way to get it repaired w/o the extortion they are currently charging or on a new car. Stuff like knowing the wheel is unquestionably being overcharged is very good to know because I would have never known otherwise. I'm having another repair shop look at the car today and I'll have the other repair shop recommended in this thread take a look at it as well. Its also good to know that I should tell them that this is a cash repair. As for the tires, I just had a tire shop look at the tires and they said they were all in good condition a week or two before the accident so I don't know what to say about that other than I tried. The tire in the picture was totally destroyed so it may give a skewed perception of what the others look like I suppose. The car is also pictured in a dirty condition which isn't super fair because I had had the car completely detailed the exact day before the accident ;/

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I definitely didn't want to come across as snobby if thats the way my reply seemed. I'll definitely have insurance to cover any mishaps next time because it would have saved me a ton of time and hassle which is also extremely valuable... but I have learned a lot about cars through this experience so I can't say it has all been for nothing.

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Now every gambler knows, that the secret to survivin' is knowing what to throw away and knowing what to keep. Cause every hand's a winner and every hand's a loser.........

Sorry to hear about the accident. You learned the hard way the Porsche mantra of "never lift." And why you should always carry insurance unless you're driving something like my old '77 Ford. The repair estimate is padded a bit, but with how hard that rear wheel hit, all of the suspension components like the knuckle would need to be replaced for sure. Definitely a part-out at this point.

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Can't make this **** up. I love this forum

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I don't think I'll signing up to be one of his sponsors

All though I'm normally not one to comment on the "should have" or "incredible you didn't....." I think the pro-poker player bet on a pair of 7's. BUT that wasn't what he was asking. In my situation, I'd fix it myself, if I couldn't (won't), I'd part it out. But in all honesty I don't see poker player career and pick-a-part job working out. Worst case, sell it to a junk yard and all in on red.... (and skip the buffet). Live and learn. (And those rear tires were on their last legs BTW.)

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yep

Wow, just wow. Craziest advice from friends ever. A gambler indeed. That being said, sorry to hear about your car. At that level of repairs, it's probably a write-off. I'm pretty sure that at that level of repairs, in my province you would be forced to declare it as a wreck. Even if you get it fixed up, you'll pretty much have to keep it and drive it yourself as a Porsche with an accident seems to draw especially low values. Sorry.

I guess not insuring the car for repair is how totalled cars end up showing a clear car fax. Maybe the worst damage possible an uninsured motorist could do. Especially when some guy down the ownership road figures out his alignment can't be set right because mounting points are torqued out of shape.

It's a mistake to try to apply your poker-playing skills to the decision to buy (or not) insurance. In a given card game with fixed rules, a given hand has a certain probability of winning. You understand the game and know that probability. Let's apply that to your current situation: You didn't understand the game (the car) and the rules change everyday and every mile in this game. Is it raining or snowing? Different rules. New tires or old? Different rules. Has another driver been drinking, talking on the cell phone, etc? Different rules. With insurance you have to ask yourself - am I prepared to walk away from this car as a total loss or am I willing to spend X dollars per year on insurance?

Although in principle, i agree that insurance is a "losing" bet, here is a thought that keeps me sane. We do have a choice who we "loose" to. Since, I do have an aversion to contribution to corporate America bottom line, one can look for other insurance sources. My credit Union (you see, I have opted out of American Big bank system - the vampire squid sitting on our wallets) provides insurance services, too. The reason we need to buy insurance is that we will eventually have to use it. we just dont know when and for how much. S-161 p.s. last week my daughter's car was broken into outside of our health club. they stole her laptop and put me out $3k. turns out, i could have bought laptop insurance for $50. not a bad bet.

What kind of laptop are you buying for your daughter? I just upgraded my office with new thinkpad X201s all around and tried really hard but could not break $2K.

Thinkpad? I thought everyone switched over to Macs by now.

I suggest driving lessons, and perhaps a car more suited to your experience level.

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And what would that be.... a Tip?!?!?!?! Seriously, great to "see" you back here!

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Macs have their own set of problems. Its a decision on which set of problems you want to deal with; one you are familiar with or a new one with a learning curve.

Can you post better pictures of your damage ? Your repair bill should be half that amount.