To Drive or Not to Drive

All, How common is it that a buyer never sees their car , except in pictures/videos, before they buy. I have been looking for a 996 with some decent options for the pat 6-8 weeks and have found quite a few but they are 600-700 miles from me. I have read some threads in here that people have made the deal over the phone after a PPI and either had the car shipped to them or fly to the car's location and drive it back home. I know this is not the optimum way, but I dont have the time to fly/drive all over to test drive every car that I'm interested in, so I will probably use the aforementioned way. What are some of the things I need to watch out for? Thanks Joe

Joe, it's not uncommon as long as you have two things: 1. A Rennfax performed 2. A through PPI by an independent shop that you can trust and doesn't have a relationship with the seller

As usual, LVDell is absoultely correct. You are one step ahead of me when I was in a similar position, because I didn't know Rennlist existed until after I acquired my P-car. Mine was 2,000 miles away in PA, but I had a customer in the area who agreeed to see and test drive the car for me. I then followed up w/ a call to the local Porsche dealership and spoke w/ the service advisor that had just performed a service on the vehicle. Negotiated price over the phone, put it on a truck and a week later it was in my garage. No regrets on the vehicle itself, and while I didn't "steal it" I do believe I paid a fair price. Take your time and find the one w/ the options and color you want - this is one market where time can be your friend, so don't rush into a purchase. My $0.02.....

PCA can be a big assist here. Usually someone in a local region is willing to take a look at the car and offer an independent opinion. This is also a good way to get a local shop recommendation. As for shipping... flying and driving from anywhere on the east coast is going to be much faster, and probably cheaper, than shipping. This also gives you a look and drive of the car before you hand over the final check. Of course you need the weather to cooperate. If the car is east of the Mississippi figure $800-1000 for shipping. I bought my car out of Boston, had it inspected by a PCA member and ppi'd by an independent shop that I chose, and then fedex'd the bank paperwork and arranged for shipping. It helps to be working with a dealer in these situations as they are usually available during business hours and with some googling you can usually figure out if they are trustworthy. Individual sellers are a trickier proposition.

Thanks, All. The majority of cars I've been looking at are dealerships. I am going to join the PCA this week to get them on my side! I will most certainly post any prospects here also. J

Here's one I'm looking at in PA. I haven't called to see if it is still available. Thanks RPM's for bird-******* this one! http://websites.dealershipids.com/lw...ehicle_id=MTIx

It has PSM, Litronic and 18"SportDesign wheels. I Like the look of the black wheels on the gray car.

Way overpriced for a 2001 with 62K miles. 26K? If you want to spend 26K then move to a 02+ so you get the benefits of the facelift. I'd be curious how the used car lot knows the car has been garaged it's entirely life, never smoked in, etc, etc, etc, when it has 3 owners over 10 years??? **looks like they have had a few price drops now into the 23's but still overpriced**

I agree with Dell... The car being an 01 with 62k is over priced...

I find it funny when everyone dumps on a dealer-listed sportscar as 'over priced.' Of course it is over priced... it's at a dealership! The listed prices are always high because some idiots just walk in, fall in love with a shiny toy, and write a check. There is a local independent dealership where the window prices are sometimes hilarious. When I chide the owner about them he just laughs and says, "somebody might just pay that and I'm not stupid." He also does a lot of internet sales. Those buyers really haggle and so he makes sure to start high. These guys are in business to make money, not provide a public service. The key is to know roughly what a car is actually worth (in this case probably around 20-22k), and perhaps more importantly when it comes to cars a bit more rare than an Accord, what you are willing to pay. The car may be too much money, but if it is exactly what you want and the only one you have found then it is probably worth more to you. And I'm not sure that 62k is actually high mileage on what is now a 10 year old car - less than 7k/year is about right for a Porsche.

dont drive it,.... send me an airline ticket and I will drive it for you

Thanks..I have never payed any attention to what the starting price is. I try to educate myself as what the market is doing and how bad I want the car/truck. Have I over payed? Hell yes! It usually is when I let my heart in the equation and also limited local inventory available. I feel doing the deal remotely and not having any geographic restrictions, I can take those two hindrances out. I am trying to stay within my 23-25K budget. The '02's I have seen have been a bit above that, but I am still looking. Thanks for all the feedback! Joe

OK dude, you didnt buy that car did you ?

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Nobody is dumping on the dealer. Rather, it's showing that the car is is fact overpriced. To help those searching for a car that might not know the proper pricing it helps to have the information so you don't become the idiot that pays the dealer that price they are asking that claims to be the deal of the century.

Buying a car over the internet/phone sight unseen is not unusual. That's because people in the know are looking for THE right car for themselves. They want a particular color package, certain options, number of owners, mileage etc, etc. In their local market, there may be only 5 - 6 cars to choose from, and they want to cast a wider net. Don't be afraid of buying a car long distance, as long as you do it right. As others have said, find an independent shop to do the PPI. Negotiate with the dealer long distance. I had 3 or 4 PPI's done on various cars before I decided to buy the 996 I currently drive. At $250 - $350 each, that may seem like tossing a lot of money down the toilet, but I found out a lot of things that made me decide to NOT buy any of those other cars - and to buy this one. BTW, the 2001 996 had a 3.4 L engine in it, not the 3.6 L. The 3.6 was introduced in 2002. There were a lot of changes between the MK1 and MK2 of these cars. You might want to consider moving up to the 2002 with the larger engine and the changes that applied. In spite of the various complaints about the price of this car - from what I've seen, paying $23.5 for a 2001 with 62K miles isn't terrible - but it's not a steal either. Make sure that this is the car (options) that you're looking for. Do a search in this forum for "PPI". There are a lot of threads about getting a PPI done long distance that will be a big help for you. larry

Hey, I bought a few vehicles over the phone / internet / etc. All were sight unseen (except for pictures) until I arrived to pay / test drive / drive home. In each case I have an inspection done on the car. I haven't been burned yet. Lets see: in 1995 I bought my 1989 944 turbo (found in Autoweek, negotiated over the phone). Car was in FL in 1998 I bought my 1995 RV (to tow the 944) in Toronto Canada. in 2003 I bought my 1999 Audi A8 from a dealer in south New Jersey in 2009 I bought my 2000 911 Cabriolet that I found on Ebay (deal not done on Ebay). Car in Kansas. It can be done and you can find the car you want for the price you want to pay. BTW, that car you referred to is now listed at $23,400, which is a good place to start the dealing. It has the 3 spoke steering wheel with the crest, which is a nice option. I don't know why the brake calipers are red, but that's OK. Good luck, Barry

FWIW, I have sold two 993s over the phone. In both cases, I provided many photos and offered to return the prospective buyer's money 100% if they, upon seeing the car, decided they didn't want it. Oh, in both cases, I required the full amount to be in my bank account BEFORE I would release the car and title to them. In one case, the buyer insisted on my including language in the sales agreement that if he discovered any paint repairs (using a digital paint gauge), I would return his money. I said no problem; and there wasn't. In other words, consider the risks from the seller's point of view, too. relinuca

I have purchased the last two cars (both Porsches) over the internet. I bought a Cayenne Turbo about three years ago and an 02 C4S in November. I will never buy a car another way. Why? The power moves decisively to the buyer when the entire country is your shopping mall. If you educate yourself around pricing online (not KBB or the like--but what cars are actually selling for) you will see there is some consensus regionally around what to pay for a car in any given condition. Sites like this one and a few others are great for understanding the potential issues--not so great for buying a car. imho most folks on these boards overvalue their own vehicles. A few simple tips (that you probably already know)-- 1. be sure to include cost of transport in your buying math. (500 mile test drives home can be great opportunities to learn about your car.) 2. Between Carfax and other services--including Porsche--you can get a very accurate history on almost any car. As a matter of fact, if you do the research you will probably end up knowing more about the car youre looking to buy than the seller does by the time you're done. 3. Patience is a virtue. Pick a reasonable number to pay for the car you want and then wait until you find that car. Regardless of what anybody tells you, buyers set the market for cars. If you pay attention you will very quickly understand the real pricing on cars and the differences between model yrs etc... BTW--private party cars should sell for less than dealer cars but often are not listed lower--initially. Wait around and eventually most folks who really want to sell their cars will sell for a rational number. But many P-car owenrs have their cars "for sale" but don't really want to sell them. 4. Ebay gives you the most recourse if you feel you have been defrauded or the car misrepresented but also can be a total pain in the **** 5. Other than a deposit--money should never change hands until you drive it, or, if it is being delivered, someone you can trust inspects and drives it. 6. If you find what you want, buy it asap--Don't mess around asking for more pics etc..get an inspection or go see the car yourself. The good ones will go quickly when priced right. 7. have fun! The chase is part of the joy of it all. There are lots of decent 996s out there, Porsche sold a boatload of these cars--I would worry less about MY and more about a finding a car with a clear and traceable history and maintenence.

Flew out and picked my car 1200 miles away with a ppi and tons of pictures I felt confident!

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One of them is named Bruce.

I'd do it, most of my cars have been from places that are not local. Especially if you're particular about what colors/options you want on a more rare type of car, you often have little choice. Good luck!

I bought my 996C2 from a dealer 450 miles away 4 years ago sight unseen. I was nervous about it, but the salesman was superb and the dealer was known to me by reputation. When I asked what happens if the transport shows up and I find something wrong with the car, they told me "you put it back on the transport and the driver brings it back here - no questions asked". Well, I made a small deposit on the car, car shows up 4 days later, looks great, I have a PPI done at my local dealer and he finds a couple things that need attention. I call the salesman, he gets approval to do the work and my local dealer charges them and they pay. I get a great car, current on all maintenance with all issues resolved. I looked at ~500 cars on the internet before I found this one over about a 6 month span. I agree with others on this post - the buyer is in control with the internet driving sales for these cars. Plenty of fish in the sea - go out and hook one and don't be afraid to negotiate.

Thanks, All for the responses..It's nice to have so much knowledge in one spot! Just got back from a few days on the Outer Banks...The hunt continues! J

Joe, I am also in the Raleigh area. I have also started a search for a 996. A co-worker owns one, he is also a member of the Raleigh area Porsche club. I have asked him to take me and introduce me to the club members at the next gathering. He recommended I spend some time talking to members and familiarizing myself with the cars, the DIY's, what to look for, pitfalls, prices, etc... After this divorce, I will finally be able to afford one, do not have the ex's debt on my back anymore...LOL If you are interested send me a PM, may be we can search together....I want a silver convertible....

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After I told my wife I wanted a divorce, there was nothing holding me back from buying the Porsche that I wanted. I don't recommend that you get a divorce - and end up trading your wife for a Porsche, but some women are just incompatible with Porsches. larry

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It happens to the best of us, Bruce!

I believe the PPI will tell you lots about the car. I walked away from 2 potential purchases due to poor PPIs. It was worth the money spent! Patience is the key. Keep looking and when the time is right and your gut tells you then pull the trigger! Happy 2011 hunting!