RoW M030 or Bilstein PSS-9

OK, I think I'm leaning to PSS-9 because it has adjustablity, RoW doesn't. Does anybody else have an opionion? I am moving from by current set up of H&R springs and stock dampers. Thanks, Brad 02 Coupe

This is not a snotty reply, but you really should search. This topic has been covered extensively. I vote for PSS9s exactly for the adjustability.

I like PSS9's

OK, sorry. I have done quite a bit of research, but this board has some really good inputs. I'll go with PSS-9's. Cheers.

I think what TD was saying is, to do a "search" of the forum's threads using the search function. You'll find quite a few threads about suspensions, lot's of opinions regarding PSS-9, Row 030, H&R, etc. Lot's of good info. I chose ROW 030. Best bang for the buck, IMHO.

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say. Neither is a bad option, but this topic has been covered so extensively that most people with detailed knowledge probably will not respond.

Bford100, The archives at rennlist are a wealth of knowledge,...I spend a lot of time reading through those, and I chose to go with porsche's X73 for mine. By doing a search you can find who has them and may be even send them a p.m., I've found that very useful. I've helped other's via p.m. and e-mail and others were more than willing to help me. Obviously if you have further questions you could start a new thread,....and may mention that you ahve done an archive search. Hope this help, happy hunti'n.

Why do you want to adjust the chassis and alignment all the time? RoW 030, half the price. Then again, what do the porsche engineers know? Unless you go to multiple different tracks, pss9's are a waste of time IMO, 90% of the guys who have 'em, don't really need 'em, if they do they otta have Motons anyway. JMO guys, adjust away if you want, just be sure and give me an early pass signal at the track.

Chris, you are bad.....

Really? You got yours for $800? Where?

You can get row 030 for $930 from Sunset.

You are right that adjusting can be a little of a pain. I don't adjust mine all of the time. BUT, I like the fact that I can lower or raise, and play around with the suspension to the point that I like it, and then I can leave it alone. When I sell it, if the new owner thinks it is too low for the city, it is very low, then he can raise it without buying another kit. I don't take that car to the track anymore, but I passed a 996 C4S this past weekend, so maybe you should start practicing your point by

TD, that' s with your 944 and the first time with the car, was it with the tach working or before,...WOW! that is awesome.

It feels good BUT putting all smack talk aside, it was after the tach was working AND Shenandoah Circuit heavily favors cars like the 944. I am sure that Chris would show me what's for at Watkins Glen or VIR (or maybe most other places as well). It is still fun to talk smack Now, if he comes down for Shenandoah, he can bring it!

Here is a good read about the ROW suspension kit. http://www.pca.org/panorama/sample_article_3.html

PSS9's are excellent. Not hard to adjust at all. After some practice, one can do it without looking or jacking the car up. Be mindful though that some clubs will add 'points' or even bump you to the next class with PSS9's as they are considered adjustable suspension (which they are).

After a great deal of research, including a long talk with Gert at Carnewal, I had decided to go with X74 (but I traded the car before installing). It really depends upon your needs, but unless you truly need adjustability, do yourself a favor and check out X74 carefully before you make a decision.

I spent hours looking for this link a few wks. back, all in vain. I remember reading it and had forgotten where the piece was,...so, thanks for the link.

If I had spare cash I'd go with PSS9s. Since I don't, ROW030 it is For the money, it can't be beat. Comes with stiffer sways, shocks, struts, and springs...

That's heavily weighing into my decision since I plan on doing some TT events. The ROW is only 15 mod points and coilovers and sways is 50 or 60 which would bump me to the next class. Hmmm....

FWIW, I had the RoW M030 on my C2. A couple of observations: 1.) I was only able to get about a degree of neg. camber up front with this suspension. I assume since the PSS9s can be lowered, you can get more camber? (TD, is that true?) 2.) On the roads around here, I found the M030 to be a harsher ride than a friends' PSS9s. In fact, the RoW M030 is actually a little harsher on certain roads I know than the GT3 is. 3.) The sways on the M030 are stiffer than the stock ones, but not as stiff (or adjustable) as the GT3 sways (which can be installed on other 996s). TD, correct me if I'm wrong, but you do have the GT3 sways, right? Personally I think those do a lot for the poise of the car on track. Certainly being able to fine tune with the sways is nice. 4.) The PSS9s do allow you to corner balance your car. Don't know if that's a big deal, because my last car couldn't be balanced, and my present car was balanced before I took it to the track. So I honestly don't know. If I were doing it again on the C2, I would def go for the GT3 sways, and probably the PSS9s if not the new, less expensive, integrated JRZ units. Which I think are pretty compelling and are a definite cut above the PSS9s. Anyway, FWIW.

In all seriousness adjustments are a pain and 90% of guys leave them set one way, so why bother? I'm a simple country boy and like one less variable to have to mess with at the track. Just do the RoW030/X74/X73 route, you'll handle great, be plenty low, preserve your warranty and have all the factory RD behind your decision. They really put alot into suspension designs that I think tuners, with off the shelf coil overs/ one size fits all, just can't match. I wonder, how many pss9 guys really adjust their suspensions , and how often? Not many and very rarely I bet. Ask Yetis how he likes his, or Ken.

hahahah that was funny..

Eli, need help with the install?

I have a TT. I tried the X73, and it was way too stiff for me. Every tar stripe or expansion joint felt like I was being hit on the head with a rubber hammer. I took them off and went back to stock until I found a better solution. I went with the PSS9's, not because they're adjustable for street / track, but because I could select a shock setting that I like for every day driving. I have done one track event, and No, I did not reset the shocks for the track. For the street, I have a car that looks great, rides and handles better than stock and doesn't require me to keep aspirin in the glove box. YMMV Cheers,

I have the JIC's on my car right now. If it were a weekend/track car, they would stay. However, with a recent job change, I now have a 45-55 minute commute on what could quite possible be the worst roads in North America and they are killing me. On the track it was amazing, the car was so planted, stable and jut a joy to drive with the coil overs and GT3 sways. So, I cannot say enough about the abilities of the JIC's and their ability on the track. Moving to the road, it�s a bit of different story. The ride can be very harsh, and definitely will not win you any awards with the other sex. It was fine for the weekend but everyday has proved too much. I have had 4 alignments in the last 5 months. I should mention that I have put 15K miles on the car in the last couple months. You can corner balance, but as a novice tracker and without a garage, I have not adjusted the height once. I have adjusted the rebound/compression, but that only goes so far in terms of ride quality. I notice the original post is from someone in California. I would say that location will make a huge difference as the roads are in better shape and there is no corrosion to the suspension in the winter or height adjustments required. I am going to move to ROW30 as I want something that I can leave on the car if and when I sell it.

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Hummm... I adjust mine (as with most guys, if there is a **** I like to fiddle with it) and I'm a statistician. It takes ...oh...about 5 minutes to change all four settings (boy that is tough). The ride on the PSS9 is much better than stock at any setting. No affect on warranty to my knowledge (my dealer has no issues with it).

If you never track your car, playing with the ***** is not that big a deal on the street. Whenever you change the ride ht, you need to check the alignment, now that's a pain . Significant changes in ride ht will induce bumpsteer during high speed cornering if not done just right. I think you're probably in the minority, as most guys never adjust their suspension with those setups IMO. Go Jayhawks

Ride height? The settings are for compression and rebound...not ride height. The ride height is set at install. What are you talking about? You can change the settings without alignment!

Stat, ride ht is what I'm talking about re alignment, and that can be changed after install. Adjust away.

Surgeon, Yes the PSS9 can be set-up with different ride heights (at install or reinstall), but once the ride height is set I don't mess with it (if that is what you are saying I agree!). I am talking about the adjustments 1-9 on the shocks. I play around with those and there is no need to re-align. Think we're talking about different things. Sorry for the confusion.

The ride height can be adjusted anytime on a coilover with the turn of a wrench. The problem with PSS9s and the like, in most hands the adjustability is useless, granted there are quite a few guys on Rennlist with track experience and they know what they are doing. The vast majority of the bling crowd has no clue, that's why their cars cough and sputter trying to get down the track in one piece, and some have learned there is more to a GT2 than the ride height alone. With PSS9s you have 9 adjustments, then add the variations in ride height, then if you have GT 3 sway bars- thats another 3-4 adjustments on each end, not to mention tire pressures...the combinations are almost endless. Most guys don't need it IMO, keep it as simple as possible on the street/track. I'll stick with the Porsche engineers on this point, unless it's all out racing then that's totally different.

I will say that the ride with PSS9s is very comfortable for a lowered suspension. This may be the most comfortable coilover I have experienced, but I like a tighter sportier feel. Mine is set at 4 and it seems little soft at low speeds, but tightens at higher speeds. On my TT, the progression rate of the PSS9s seem like redbound and compression are softer or same as stock at low speeds, but tighter than stock at very high speed when piston speed increases. Will setting at 1 increase compression and rebound at lower speed without much of an increase in compression in rebound at higher speeds. I am hoping that the spring progression rates are not uniform for each setting and that lower the number below 4 will mainly effect low speed driving. I don't want the car to get twitchy feeling at very high speeds. Anyone know for sure.

DJ, I certainly don't want to create any hard feelings (I'm one of the BLING losers incapable of understanding the physics of suspension systems). I'm sure you have driven a P-car with PSS9s. And you know that even without any adjustments, the ride is way better than stock (street or track). I have not driven a car with ROW30 so I can not compare. I have certainly heard good things (and bad) about both suspension systems. IMHO the PSS9 suspension is very nice.

Dude, chill out. As I said in my post the guys on Rennlist, you included, are the exception. My observation comes from years of experience, in a misguided youth racing cars all over the country as Chris can attest to, I have driven and raced with various coilover systems- mostly Koni- and weight jack systems. I'm not condeming PSS9s, I just think most guys couldn't tell you the difference between loose and tight in a corner, and they don't need them IMO of course. I have not driven a PSS9 Porsche, maybe it's better maybe not, I like my RoW M030. No hard feelings. Cheers.

Doug, No worries...I'm actually quite cool for a change as the damn heat wave here in Colorado finally broke. The ROW looks great on your car and I'm glad you like it. It seems that neither one of us is actually capable of commenting on the other since we haven't driven it. You like yours and I like mine...all settled. Salute.

some interesting observations... although most are happy with their ROW 030 systems I've heard a few people comment about low speed harshness.... hmmm,, didn't think there would be any with the ROW 030 but I guess there is some... I've also heard a p-car salesman tell me the same thing and I wasn't able to confirm it until reading comments on this forum.

My initial impression was of some harshness at low speed on patched city streets, but I seem to be getting acclimated to it. In my drive last night, I was noticing how well the shocks handle the low speed stiffness. The row 030 is damped very well.