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YOUR RESEARCHAging gracefully, or why old Porsches look good
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Use f430 = $200k
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Suggestion · Original poster
And for those of you who were worried about it, the repair/body shop called yesterday to say that things were virtually all healed; all the remains is to make the 'modifications' that I mentioned earlier (plenum, Farnbacher Loles chip, RoW M030 suspension).
Leading evidence: 'Use f430 = $200k' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is '996' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Repair /body shop called' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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It does need an oil change now, but I'll probably do it myself and need to find a bigger used oil bucket before I start.
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Suspected cause
It was the 996 that made me first look at Porsches, before that I thought they were all ugly....
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best looking car of all and i still
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The Testarossa came out when I was very young and I remember that it was the best looking car of all and I still to this day would sport one.
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However, if either proved to be too "delicate" for normal driving I'd be in a 997 Turbo S Cab in a heartbeat.
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Repair /body shop called
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Suggestion · Original poster
And for those of you who were worried about it, the repair/body shop called yesterday to say that things were virtually all healed; all the remains is to make the 'modifications' that I mentioned earlier (plenum, Farnbacher Loles chip, RoW M030 suspension).
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Suggestion
- believe it or not - were in place long before your inimitable writing "style", and no one gives a rat's *** whether or not you change, since your shortcomings reflect only on you.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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There's been some posts recently where guys are 'upgrading' into Ferraris and Lambos and Audis and it gets me thinking. Do they look that much better? Do they drive that much better? I'm getting to the point where I could probably move into a 430 or a Gallardo if the urge bit me, but I'm having trouble seeing the point. My problem is that Porsches just age so well. I see my buddies 993 and I think it looks fantastic. I pass a 964 Targa the other day while visiting family in Florida and it just appears to be such a beautiful classic. Don't even get me started on beauty of even older 911s with the chrome bumpers and swooping fenders.
My point is that I'm driving (well, was driving as it's being repaired presently) a 2000 Cab and every time I walk up to it, my excitement builds, my heart starts to pace a little faster and I'm blown away that it still looks so good after 8 years now and even though the 997 has been out and about for a while. However, when I see an older Ferrari (say the 360 or the Testarossa), they look a little passe the minute the next model is released. We've talked about this before, but it's as though the Italians design for heartstopping looks right now, but don't worry about how it'll age in a few years. Frankly, I just don't have the yen to be motoring around in an Fcar in favor of say, a GT3.
Am I just imagining things?
My neighbor has a Berlinetta, it looks aged to me, but that is just my opinion. Maybe because I'm attracted to the curves of the porsche. It sits in his garage and the only time it sees action is when he starts it up at a cocktail party to wow the guys. Mind you, he never moves it, he just revs the engine. It sounds like a formula one car crackling across the valley. It is a lovely sound and tops my MKII mod by far. I'm like you. I prefer the classic porsche, but would love a 60's 250 GT strictly for the garage. But, can't afford that right now.
Ferrari's have a soul. While Porsches are technically fantastic, they often have a function over form stance. Ferrari has always had a form, then function built in. Their stylistically "rolling sex" and have been for years.
Believe you me, I am a Porsche guy through and through. A Ferrari has always made my heart beat that much faster.
C.
Most F-cars are timeless but there are a few exceptions, The Mondial and Testarossa come to mind..
Actually, the Mondial didn't even look that good when it was new
But 911's to me are timeless, I could stare at my old 86 all day, it may look dated... but it's good dated.
And the early cars just look so perfect
The Testarossa came out when I was very young and I remember that it was the best looking car of all and I still to this day would sport one. It was the 996 that made me first look at Porsches, before that I thought they were all ugly....
. Now I drive one of those "ugly" ones
.
I think your logic is great, just that a Ferrari is not the best example . . . but if you apply your logic to Corvettes (especially Corvettes), Jaguars (compare the E-Type to the latest XK), and "lesser" names than Ferrari, I agree completely! The lineage of 911s has a consistency that I really admire. In fact, we are even considering looking around for a nice 70s vintage 911 for a summer driver. . .
so if you could get into an F430 today, you gotta be an idiot to continue to drive a 2000 cab which is one of the uglier porsches out there. sorry that's just how i see it.
Why would you insult someone and then turnaround and apologize in the same post? Rather insincere and judgmental IMHO. There is no rule that says you have to drive the most expensive car you can afford and beauty is totally subjective.
do u fellas have no sense of reading between the lines?
the dude spouts off he can get himself into a car that's clearly magnitudes superior to the 911 yet he's going to come on here and say his heart goes pitter patter when looking at a rather ugly 911 that is a cab 996?
sure, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but the absolutely awesome F430 spider ... if you can swing it like the author said, wtf he is doing in a 911 drop top let alone one that's nearly a decade old?
it's like saying i could live in hawaii the rest of my life comfortably, but i jus really like detroit's proximity to General Motors so i choose to live on 8 mile road.
at ease, bud. it's not like i'm pointing fingers at him red-faced calling him an idiot. it's more of a i'm baffled type "you idiot" haha thing.
call it what you will, i will do the same.
B Choi...come on...he has a GREAT point. Porsche's all look like classic cars when they age..they all age gracefully. Now a Ferrari in my opinion does not. I saw a Testarossa the other day and I thought, wow...I USED to love that design, a good friend had one and I thought that may have been the most amazing car ever at the time....but now it looks so, well...dated. Same thing with the 308...I have a neighbor with one, and my wife makes Magnum PI jokes all the time. Even the F360 now looks a bit old. I see why guys flip them when they get old. Look at a 456...compare it to a 612...same concept, but the 456 looks so well, old. So if someone was buying a car THEY could like for a long time, and not feel the urge to upgrade, then a F430 may not be the car for them, because the next gen car will look soooo much better....and in theory modern F cars dont age as well as say older F cars. Then add to that the cost of ownership and a new Ferrari may not be the car for them. I do agree that Porches dont have the same problem. Even the ugliest 996 cabs....
It's very difficult to describe why some cars age gracefully and others do not although it will never be unanimous as to which cars pass and which ones do not. I think the 993 and earlier models have accomplished this. Perhaps the newer models just look old and not yet classic and this may change in time. The 355's look great while the 348's not so much (again - just in my opinion). The tail lights might have something to do with it. Ferrari interiors do nothing for me unless you go way way back. 996's in pics have never been my favorite but that is likely because I grew up looking at the earlier and very different styling. In person I think they look smaller and better.
Hey yo slow down 2pacolipse. I was born and lived (after moving back from Mexico City) near beautiful Detroit. Hawaii has nothing over the motor city.
But a 996 or 97 over a 430...NEVER. If I could afford the 430 I don't worry over repairs/maintenance.
That F-car is about as good as it gets.
But to compare apples to apples we would have to talk GT.
Tough decision now, would have to drive them both>As it stands now the GT has the edge in my book.
Just dreaming....
In real life the 996 can not be beat for the $, period
Hell, I wouldn't even get to the point of it breaking. My car fund would go bust just trying to keep the damn thing maintained.
OTOH, I spent $222 total on service/repairs for my 996 over the first year I owned it. It does need an oil change now, but I'll probably do it myself and need to find a bigger used oil bucket before I start.
and affirmative a cgt is at another level above the F430. i'd even take the cgt over the 430 scuderia. that cgt is special and only an enzo tops it in the ferrari line-up.
i mean no ill will. i'd love to see the author pick up the 430 spider and post pics and share his joy with us. but selling us to believe the 996 cab makes him go gah gah everytime he gets in the near vicinity of it.. is comedy esp when an F430 convert is called into discussion!
my 99 cab makes me go gah gah when I look at it. Would I buy a F-car YES....could I yes...could I pay for the maintenance....don't think so!
Benjamin you are a sorry ****.... don't know what gave you internet torrets..but man you got it big time....you must not have a lot of friends with your judgmental ******* behavior, maybe it is because you live in Seattle and are always wet! (like a little bitch!)
Did you like what I just wrote about you?? Exactly!!
I think Ferrari's are great cars. I very much enjoyed my '66 275GTS and at times think about getting another one. I do prefer the Ferrari's from about '65-'67.
On the other hand, Porsches really are timeless because they have consistent styling cues; overall they seem more dependable than other performance cars; and I figure, (unless I do a track day) -- I'm going to get stuck behind a mini-van in traffic anyway -- how much do I need to spend to do that??
For me, Porsches are a nearly perfect combination of price & performance which = value.
Mate, couldn't have said it any better. I think the key is that Porsche is constantly evolving their design so that the 'old' models never look 'tired', they look like descendants. Ferrari is constantly trying to reinvent the wheel and it often goes haywire. Don't get me wrong, I like the 355, but 360s and 430s look like they tried too hard to impress. Indeed, the gaping dual bass mouths on the front of the 430 are tragic. Nevertheless, contrary to what many think, I loved the look of the 996. It created a sleek version of the 911 and clearly, the best selling model in the lineup ever, Porsche must have gotten something right. Yes, it's not the prettiest compared to other racers, but it simply speaks to me from a much different perspective and it's that sense of heritage that gets me excited to drive it.
Ben, one day when you don't the necessity to constantly try and keep up with the Joneses, you'll realize that life is a lot sweeter enjoying those things that bring you pleasure without worrying about those things that you don't have that don't. I could go into a litany of reasons why the 430 doesn't really do it for me, but it's a perspective and not a fact. The real problem with Ferraris ultimately is how most people use them: in the garage and gingerly on the road for fear of nicks and dents. That tells me all about the Long Island type of driver who usually owns one. Ahem, form instead of function. Impress instead of enjoy. There's a reason those cars date over time. You'll see, you'll be trading up for a 450 (or whatever the heck the next generation is) the minute you see one.
Spot on. I recommend everyone here read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Alan Pirsig. Ben in particular could benefit by Pirsig's detailed account of value and 'quality'...and let me tell you, it ain't about flash.
I like Ferraris but will probably never own one, not because I'll never be able to afford one, but because I don't want another child to babysit. I was talking to a friend that's potentially in the market for a Ferrari and I shared the comments from the 2-Ferrari owner in another thread about being slightly afraid every time he drove the car. I sure don't need that, and I sure don't need another expensive toy that's expensive to keep going.
Why can't Ferraris be as reliable as a TT or the new ZR-1? I suspect it's only because Ferrari doesn't want it that way. They're great cars and I'd pat the back of any guy that ever owns one, but as I walk away I'll be chuckling at how difficult they make ownership of one. None for me, thanks.
Ben,
Why do you continue to insult people for things that they love? It's a matter of what you like. In this forum, you make some of the most intelligent comments and then you make the most belligerent ones in your next post. I don't get it.
People buy CABs because they love them.
But that's just me.
Paul
i ask if you guys are going to judge me, be consistent in reading up on my posts as it's rarely black/white but gray matter so to speak.
at first, i dismissed all 911 cabs because people largely agree the 911 is best in coupe form. but over time here on rennlist, reading up on people's love for their cabs, i realized hey, i love the way my car sounds even with a roof over my head, how much more involving it is with the whole damn top off? so now, though i'd still probably stay away from a cab 911, i acknolwedge it as being a desirable trait for the driving experience.
it's all relative. now the comparison is between someone who can afford to drive a 911 cab or a 430 spider. this is what the author stated. i'm willing to bet that the 430 spider driving experience absolutely blows away the 911 cabriolet along with 99.999999% of the cars out there on the road. who in their right mind would have to debate over this if in fact they can afford a ferrari and a modern, new supercar ferrari at that?
see my incredulity? get past your 911 996 blinders and your pre/conceived notions about me and just look at it right on paper and imagine it as real. 430 SPIDER is an insanely awesome car, life is short, go trade in that stud garden horse for the one from maranello/modena now! say for some crazy reason out of guilt or whatever u dont' like it? sell it and make some $ off of it cuz yes, the f-car is THAT desirable so i ain't talkin' crazy.
p.s. and then i get slammed for keeping it real about the husker guy who huffs and puffs posting pics of his dated ferraris and somehow comparing that ownership experience with a 360/430. pls. i'm sure he's got great knowledge of ferraris... then offer that up v. comparing a slow, dated, affordable ferrari to a new supercar that clearly offers up a superior driving/ownership experience.
p.p.s. someone tell me they understand what i'm trying to communicate between the lines without having to explain it all cuz i never will just not patient enough
I see your point B...but his point was this....after the initial love (lust) affair ends..and reality sets in...will he still like it 5-10 years down the road like he likes his aging Porsche. Let me put this analogy up....J Lo was all the rage a few years ago, but the aging Salma Hayek in my opinion is far more attractive....if you had to go for a latin Bombshell, do you go for the younger and hot (at the time) J Lo? or the Classic Salma? In 10 years where will they both be? Thats his point...while the 430 is the flavor of the month...after the 480, 530, etc...where will he be, since he doesnt like the way the F cars age...This is my point, if he is not tracking it, and just driving it...the performance difference for everyday driving will be soooo close....in fact the F Car may be more of a pain to drive normally. So he is saying, he may not see all the extra performance, and the extra cost, upkeep may not be worth it to him because in 8 years he wont like it as much as he likes the looks of his 8 year old 996 Cab....Its a logical and well thought out argument. Your point is buy it and own it because its great NOW...who cares how gracefully it ages....He says, he cares....2 different points of view. You say dont get married, leave the club with the hottest thing in there and if you find one hotter next week, drop the first one and keep it moving....he says, he wants to settle down and grow old with one that will be just as beautiful to him 10 years from now.....Both of you are correct....just depends on what you are looking for...short term fling, or long term commitment.
Oprah has a sweet set on her.
I see Ben as opinionated, a bit blunt, somewhat raw with a touch of judgmental on top. Personally I'm good with it, adds a bit of salsa to this site.
He agrees or likes and puts it out there, disagrees or hates it and he spits it out just as fast, he is not fake, like him or not.
Rennlist offers way more than I could have ever imagined. It is not just a top technical site (that would have already been more than enough for me).
Speaking Latinas, I take Shakira. She can MOVE like no other.
newp, but my point is it's not salma v. j-lo. not even close.
it's like gettin your groove on with salma the 50 year old 400 pound phone sex operator v. salma the 21 year old 5'5" w/ dimples bikini clad maxim mag local beauty USA contest winner.
you take your pick.
game over, thank you, good nite. if u can swing it, do it.
I think you are exagerrating...a 996 is NOT a 400 pound phone sex operator....Thats a Scion Xa. Plus if you are gonna ask me do I want a Ferrari 308, or a Porshe 930...no brainer, gimme the 930....What I am saying is that in 10 years, what are you gonna like more...the 10 year old Porsche or 10 year old Ferrari. MY choice would be the 10 year old Porsche for LOTS of reasons and if money were NO object then maybe I'd do both...lol...or like you say, drive the F car now and when I am tired of it ditch it....and get a newer Ferrari, or whatever...If I was to pick ONE car that I loved and was planning on keeping for a LONG time, and some people do exactly this...it would probably be a Porsche.
who knows wtf will happen in 10 yrs time let alone the next hour? the F430 is more of a classic than the 996 carrera will EVER be even in the next decade dude.
look man visualize this: you got your 996 cab and then this F430 spider in teh driveway and you can afford the 430. you gonna seriously be happy with the 996 because in 10 years you prognosticate you'll be happier with the 996 cuz somehow by some miracle 911s age better? this ain't no more aircooled low production numbers game. ferrari still kills it and they've made vast improvements since the MAGNUM PI days (looked it up).
LOLLOLOLOLLLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLO c'mon dog c'mon go drive around the block in your lexo to clear your head.
Normally I'm real laid back and to each there own, but I agree with Ben on this. I'm calling BS. I get giddy every time I see my car too. But if I had the $1/4 million+ laying around to buy that Ferrari, do you think I just MIGHT be at least driving the new 911 Turbo version??
Sorry, but DUH!
I agree on not spending the money just because you can. I could have squeeked into a high mileage Turbo or waited a few years for the Turbo Cab, but got mine and loved it because the horendous cost difference wasn't worth it to me. I LOVE my car (01 C4 Cab). If I could easily swing over twice the money of a brand new turbo cab I'd at least have the 05 996 TT Cab, not a 2000 C2 (which BTW is a fine car!)
This, I think, is what Ben means.
I think the Porsche is more "timeless", but he would at least get a new/newer GT2/GT3/ or TT. So let's try to understand why Ben said it.
p.s. I will trade my timeless car for a F430 if anyone feels I'm wrong....
Back to the original post--The funny thing about this thread is that if the Ferrari comparison had not been brought up, it might have went a different direction. I agree with the original post, that the 911 legacy has kept styling cues from previous models very well up from the 356 to the 997. A gradual evolution rather than a look that says "well, let's hire another new styling department."
Actually thinking about a cab from the 70s or early 80s as a fun summer driver.
I really like the 911 history. Can't say the same for the Corvette history, the Jaguar XK history, etc.
Different opinions do add diversity to life however respect for others opinions keeps the peace. IMHO true car lovers can appreciate many different cars and can understand how someone can adore a car that they do not. Only the young and naive can't realize that there are perspectives other than their own.
I can sure appreciate how someone with the means would want to own a Ferrari or Lambo or upgrade to a GT3 or Turbo. With the limited opportunity to test any of our cars limits driving an older lower powered car on the street might even yield more fun than with a supercar!
I am new too!
Just thinking back to the original post, and there are VERY few lines that I could happily have a car from every era. Wow, if I could afford a 356 and an early 911 too. I saw a great poster at the Porshce dealer, with a 356, 911, and 997 superimposed from front to back. Really highlighted the styling cues over the years . . .
While it's not my place (the providence of more senior members than I) welcome to Rennlist! I have had more useful advice here than in any other P-car forum. Useful and FAST.
Bill,
Welcome to Rennlist and Congrats on getting back into a Porsche again!
I see you let Ben "yank your chain" a little. Don't take it, or him, too seriously. After you have been here a while you will learn to ignore most of what he says.
You have the ability to delete your own post(s) if you wish, but my personal opinion is that you don't need to do so in this case.
If you want to edit or delete a post, simply click on the "white piece of paper & pencil" (a.k.a. Edit/Delete) icon at the bottom right on that particular post. For obvious reasons, you will see that icon only on your own posts.
To Edit your message:
1) go to the Text box and make your changes.
2) click in the the Save button to save the changes.
To Delete your message, scroll down toward the bottom and:
1) click on the
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2) Then click on the
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3) Click on the
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The only two Ferraris I would ever dare own before my 911 would be the 360, and most certainly the 430. Both are sex on wheels...
However, if either proved to be too "delicate" for normal driving I'd be in a 997 Turbo S Cab in a heartbeat.
Ah Grasshopper
Bens Kung fu is strong, his 140 pds can not be underestimated. I am impressed with the picture of the real gun, although 2 guns would have been even more effective. Got a tripod?.
Either way, nobody has sh*t on me. As a matter of fact if any of you Rennlist scumbags even thinks of saying something ignorant .......
Oh yeah. Sex on wheels. This beauty from 1989 looks like a Toyota Supra or the Pontiac Fiero's older brother. Mark my words, the Testarossa and 348 are already starting to look this way. I'm wondering when the 430 will for you.
I'll take any 911 from the 80s. It's not always horsepower and speed, that's all.
UPDATE: it just came to me; the black one looks like Knight Rider.
Ah, come on Bill, it is very entertaining and I am sick so I need something to energize me............btw, I like your F-cars, they are kick @$$ in my book. Your "doesnt need this on it" line, that is all part of RL's reputation......"one big dysfunctional family", as I have heard it called......
I did notice the "guns" but I an sure that had nothing to do with my decision not to ask him to post a pic.
In fact, I had already typed my "usual" newbie initation "Pretty please, with sugar on it, woud you mind posting a pic of your car? If you don't want to, that's OK with me!" Then I remembered that Wayne wasn't here so I erased my stern phrase just so Wayne could share in the fun!
rennlist needs to pay me for my services w/ the entertainment value i bring out in some of the worst ways case in point above WAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH he a grown **** man dude relegated to high school freshman status but now with $ to buy them 'roids
see fellas? see how husker's posts now make complete sense? WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hey bud, for all the old ferraris you got, try getting some jeans not from walmart, but then usually the fancier brands don't make 'roid thigh sizing.
WHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA awwwwww jeaaaaah hook line sinker anyways man it ain't nothin personal and i'm guessing you're going to wanna take that pic down is my best recommendation ever given on rennlist.
you're welcome guys you're welcome
I know a few millionaires that dont drive either ferraris or pcars, just pickup trucks, not the biggest or baddest either, just plain old vanilla pickups.
just because you can dosent mean you have to.
Warren Buffett drives a Lincoln Town Car, or at least he did until he auctioned it off for charity. If you get trapped in a horsepower war, you'll never win. Or, you just may find yourself driving a Corvette.
Huskerbill:
I grew up across the street from a retired mink farmer who drove a pick-up
and was worth + eight figures back in the 70's. He and his wife were the
nicest down to earth couple around and I wish more people were like them.
Mark
I know a guy that drives a used, slightly modified Aero 996, walks with a slight Brady like limp due to his super sized d... and has a sweet custom home. He is completely broke ***.
All the neighbors think he's a filthy rich stud.
Poor bastard.
I'm glad not many people are like him.
hey husker, you should submit that pic of yours into the next ferrari club newsletter front page with your VP status region style or whatever .
actually you could even submit that for the corvette newsletter, dog. your boy barry bonds would appreciate.
Well, let's not be too hasty with that nomination. There is still a lot of year left, and these threads seem to embrace their own form of oneupmanship.
Yeah, I got a good laugh out of the coincidence... and now the image is burned on my brain... oh no!!!
...that will teach me not to sit here listening to music with my son and surfing rennlist.
Wow,... Took a couple of days off and this place goes to hell... ahhh, lets see a 996 vs a 430 in 10yrs... guys, every once in awhile people have thoughts of having a fling, its just normal. Thats what a Ferrari is... nothing wrong with that...
Redridge, I was starting to loose it. For a moment I thought I was strong enough to crack open walnuts with my azz, next thing you know I'm ready to take on big the big H and showing him how I will take him out.
It was just a fling thing, normal. I feel better, no more wine for a while...
Thanks redridge, I'm back to normal now
hey pi, read
my
posts and see where i was speaking out of touch with reality. you got your insecurities bunched up and went so far as to post a pic of yourself on the net showing off the 'roid assisted guns and you're how old cuz you def ain't in hs anymore given your love for a "dated" show.
you don't even begin to have a clue where i come from or what i've experienced so let's focus on what's at hand. you brought up your ferraris comparing them to another dude's ferrari that's much newer and much better designed from scratch and somehow say the experience is thesame. that's like me saying to a guy with a 1970s 911 let's go compare crib notes on maintenance. pls. whole diff ball game.
period. then **** got crazy and yes i played right in line to expose your insecurities w/ you volunteering up a lot of extra info that's completely irrevelant to the point i was bringing up such as your VP ferrari regional super status, your blueprints for your next house, your typical ez to get huge but not ripped and looks awkward throwing a football physique highschool kid weight training program themed as such: "Get swoll at all costs." u think any one of us except those still in hs actually give a flying whatever about the what you got material-wise?
pls dude. go grab a coke and a smile. i'll respect you rennlist style more if you kept it real honest and not hype yourself up. i even gave u credit that you prob know a whole damn bunch about older ferraris and that we could prob talk cars all day. i could stand to learn a thing or two or more from you cuz i do love ferraris, but you blew all that by showing all your cards and showing us exactly how weak a hand you hold by your playing style. i got you figured out.
but hey believe it or not, i like making friends more so than not friends so if you wanna agree that you want to be cool on the common bond that we both own and love 911s (cars in general)... well let's git 'er done.
yup, that was a cool show - what 10 year old didn't want to be Magnum? That car was it for me... I grew up with photos of Ferraris and Porsches on my bedroom walls.
BTW, Huskerblll, you do realize that there's an ignore user function on rennlist don't you?
I get what you're saying, Ben. I've been at that age and stage in my life before, as have many others here, I'm sure. When you're young and impulsive, you want to be seen, you seek flattery, and you crave self-importance. It's a tremendous source of pleasure, no doubt, and what better way to accomplish all this than with an F-car? Such motivations wane, however, as you get older, and you gradually learn to better manage your id desires. You start paying more attention to driveability, usefulness, reliability, etc., all aspects of the ownership experience your young self is more than willing to overlook for its pure sex appeal.
I also love Ferraris, and I don't think they age poorly at all. Despite that, until Maranello can put out a "bullet-proof" F-car rivaling a 911, I would never own one. With material goods, it isn't all about affordability. Just because you have the money, it doesn't mean you don't value it.
Oh heck, when you get a wife and kids, then we'll talk again!
No, but I am going to find it.
I just went back and deleted every post of mine. People are reaching out and telling me he is everything from "a troll" to "clueless" to "a waste of your time". One guy even said he thinks the Porsche may not even be his (thinks it is his friend's).
All good. Thanks for the advice. But Magnum was a sweet show. They are coming out with a movie remake of it in '09 with Matthew McConaghy playing Magnum. Probably will butcher it though....
hate it,or love it. as many haters there of me, i get just as much if not more showing me rennlist love.
at least i can say i tried and didn't weaksauce out. peace.
and i know what you're saying but it doesn't peg me to the guy in your message. to begin to render the modern day ferrari as a lever that gets you fulfillment (wanting to be seen, seeking flattery, craving self importance)... that it is a tool to get these things and that's it... is a complete understatement of the year.
bottom line, they make fantastic, ultra-desireable cars to own (which includes driving with peace of mind) and the 911 just falls short ceteris peribus. the 911 has a definite ego-fulfilling aspect of it as well and anyone here to pretends it doesn't and that they love it just cuz it's a great drive is completely BSing themselves. it's just that there's something better and it's from italy, not germany.
Another way is to click on his username, click "show public profile", then on the right side of screen you'll see "add to ignore list" click on that and confirm the selection.
No no, Ben, I'm not pegging the F-car as simply a means to a superficial end. Like all enthusiasts of other marques, a Ferrari afficionado loves it for all that it represents, and with tremendous passion. They aren't the ones being discussed here. If the OP were one of those, then he certainly wouldn't have started this thread -- there wouldn't even be a question.
This is more about the Porschephiles who have the means for an F-car, pondering the incremental value of the leap. It's about what's ultimately more important in the driving experience
as well as
the overall ownership experience. To many folks, an F-car's "sex-on-wheels" allure can't compensate for all of its shortcomings, and that's where the 911 shines. Just because one may value the 911 over the F-car doesn't mean they have no appreciation for the Italian marque and its rich heritage, or that it means the 911 is superior in every way. For everything you love about the modern Ferrari, would/can you use it as a DD? Not that you would have to, of course. Some love it just being in their garage, and with good reasons.
The point is, a 911 is a much more capable DD than any F-car ever will be. To many (especially the more seasoned folks
), that makes all the difference. If I'm not mistaken, the OP uses his 996 as a DD. Keep in mind, Benjamin, personal choices are
always
subjective.
I can aver that my car is a daily driver. Well, more specifically, I drive it whenever I want as I walk to work here in Manhattan. But the little guy comes out every weekend and any night I'm driving downtown for dinner. It handles the New York streets with aplomb. And for those of you who were worried about it, the repair/body shop called yesterday to say that things were virtually all healed; all the remains is to make the 'modifications' that I mentioned earlier (plenum, Farnbacher Loles chip, RoW M030 suspension). Oh I am getting excited again.
As for Ferraris: mates, I definitely think they are sweet cars. This thread wasn't really intended to denigrate them. It's just that some of them just look a bit too over styled. But that's a personal thing. What's NOT a personal thing is that you generally see the cars polished up in the garage instead of on the road (and this list includes my father's 355 spider...he uses his C4S cab as a daily driver...which essentially speaks louder than words). Humourously, every time we go to take the 355 out, there's a clutch issue, the top won't go down properly, etc. These may be symptomatic of it sitting around on a trickle charger all day, but again, to me it's part and parcel of the problem: Ferraris need to be treated gingerly. My C2 cab has NEVER failed me and it's pushing 8 years old. I mean, that's Honda territory!
But again, agreed, I'm only talking about model heritage and your general Fcar driver. For speed and flash, they smoke a lot of cars. It's just a question of priority. One need only watch Charlie Sheen in "No Man's Land" to know how I feel.
i understand, but what i'm saying is, the modern ferrari has caught up and is now much more reliable than ever and is close enough in the reliability dept to be a dd from the mechanical standpoint. now whether you feel comfy parking that thing given the magnitudes more attn it receives than a 911... is a choice u gotta make as the owner. u knwo where i stand as i wouldn't even have my 911 as a dd.
and again i clearly said f360 and above... the F355 was still built under the mediocre qc/engineering umbrella. the 360 and above ... only need apply for me.
a ferrari is ultimately much more desireable than a porsche period.
There are stupid threads like this over on the 944 & 951 boards all the time, I think mainly because those cars are so cheap any idiot can afford a "Porsch". They then get on Rennlist and start insulting people and acting like a child.
By the way grammar, capitalization, and a general proofread of your post before you submit it, can be a huge asset in the way winning an argument here. When we can't understand what you wrote it's hard for anyone to side with you.
Bravo. I can't take someone seriously when they can't even spell, or observe basic English usage which even my 9 year old understands. The decline & fall of the empire is in full swing...say hello to the lowest common denominator, even in the ranks of Porschephiles.
i gotta type to the level of comprehension of some on this very board.
and your tired argument has been stated many a times before all over blogs on the internet and it gets you absolutely no where. because : 1) it's not going to change my car forum writing style ; 2) it's not a doctoral thesis; 3) you fully understand what i'm saying yet trying to undercut the fundamental truths i'm trying to express because you have no good argument against.
ranks of porschephiles? what else you d!ck measuring now that your Webster idolatry is spent? LOL goodness gracious. r u like the 4 star porsche internet general now reigning over pretending to be carrera owners like me? LOL
Wow. Man, you should relax a little bit. It's a valid point that it would help if you wrote a touch more grammatically correct. However, you also make a valid point that your opinions are nevertheless generally understood. But I have to admit, you do have a certain aggressiveness in responding to relative strangers that can be a little grating. A little tact would more effectively help you convince others of your thoughts.
I leave the country for a week and this happens... Welcome Husker Bill. We would love to see pics of your car when available.
This picture above is classic Ben.
Note: He is more proud of that tatoo. The way his hands are tucked behind reminds me of the reason why some girls wear padded bras; its all bark no bite/false advertisement.
Thanks man. Yeah, I will post a pic of it when I have a chance to clean it properly. The 400 mile trip from LA and the two days worth of driving it to work in the rain make for a car that is not worthy of pics. I will though.
Ben, arguing with you is like boxing a quadriplegic.
In order of you assertions, 1) standards of spelling, grammar, usage, etc. - believe it or not - were in place long before your inimitable writing "style", and no one gives a rat's *** whether or not you change, since your shortcomings reflect only on you. 2) Doctoral thesis or not, one's everyday writing skills - in any endeavor - often say as much about the author as the words themselves; people give credence to those who can artfully & skillfully advance their position, no matter how casual the forum. It's the mark of someone who appreciates quality, no matter the particular activity at hand; you should read the Pirsig book alluded to previously by another poster, it's right on point. 3) You are assuming facts not in evidence, e.g. that you indeed expressed any "fundamental truths" - in this thread or any other. Was it a "fundamental truth", for example, when you called a member's wife a "transvestite" in a previous post?
And finally, as far as any "dick measuring" goes, you are the only one here who continually brings up this concept...an issue there, perhaps?
So long as you insult people online, they will respond in kind, or ignore your "contributions" - that is, of course, unless they're seeking a laugh or futher evidence of the decline of polite society, in which case they'll read the latest installment just for grins.
I am retiring from this thread. Peace.
yea go play in your own sandbox. cool move.
again, y'all try to muddy up the main point that i am trying to make by again referring to my infamous avatar, dig at my grammar like you guys are English teachers, bring up padded bras... it's weak, but hey i ain't responsible for it.
it's many of you that cannot handle truth. you take it personally and then try to bite back and it's pretty funny ****.
the herd mentality in this forum should be studied. LOL y'all pile on top of each other and enjoy it.
When are y'all going to realize that Ben's main purpose here is to yank people's chains to see if they will say ouch. Ben is all about the "too cool for school" bling bling image.
He has an opinion on every topic but displays very little knowledge on any topic. Go back and read some of his posts and you will notice they are all about his "opinion" but contain very little, if any, concrete technical advice or facts. Just do what I do, scan his posts and skip over the BS. The only time I even respond to Ben anymore is if he is giving someone bad or incomplete information on a topic. Then, and only then, do I step up and refute what his is saying.
I disagree with a lot of what Ben writes, but I respect his right to post those opinions here. I just don't let him get under my skin. If you ignore the trolls, they will eventually go away.
Well said.
Porsches have appealed to me because of their legendary durability and endurance racing success. I don't know of any other mass produced marque that can be taken to the track and driven without modification. Ferraris sure can't.
The 911 design is timeless. Hell I like 928s, 944s, 968s ... all of them.
Ferraris are beautiful but no recent Ferrari approaches the beauty of a 60s 250SWB, 275GTS etc. although I do reallly like the 288 GTO. As for modern Ferraris I like the 550 and 575.
Just because somebody CAN afford a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti etc. doesn't mean they will buy one. I know of a number of people who can afford one who have other interests.
Porsche ... there is no substitute.
