tips on diagnosing a starter problem?

My 2000 996 C2 seems be developing an odd starter problem. It cold starts fine, but if I'm running short (1-2 mile) errands, it gets harder to start the 2nd and 3rd times. The 2nd and 3rd starts are very "slow" to begin, the starter sounds like the battery is almost dead, but if I keep cranking the starter will get its act together after 5-10 seconds and then I'm fine. All lights are at normal brightness, etc. The problem only occurs after very short drives followed by very short stops. If I let the car cool off more before restarting, there's no problem, and if the drive is longer, there's no problem. The symptoms don't seem to match a battery or alternator problem, which is why I'm thinking starter motor, but I'm puzzled as to what could be wearing out on the starter that's only a problem when the motor's hot. Any suggestions? Thanks, Bob

I would have the battery tested first - especially if it is 4 years old or older.

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I'll give that a try, as I've replaced the battery once but it was 3-4 years ago. It just doesn't "feel" like a battery problem, but I'll get it checked to know for sure.

I won't profess to know more than Loren, but do a search if it's not the battery, I've heard starter problems that started (no pun) this way.

Try the starter with the headlights on and shining on something you can see. If the lights go way down when the starter is engaged, check the battery and connections. If your battery is weak and/or it has a bad connection the starter will drop system voltage way down and the lights dim. Have you noticed if the interior/instrument lights dim when the starter is used? Do check the connections anyway. Don't just wiggle them to see if they are tight. Disconnect and clean with wire brush or some other suitable abrasive. As always DISCONNECT THE NEGATIVE (GROUND) FIRST AND RECONNECT IT LAST. SAFETY FIRST. We don't wan't to see any more rebuilding of post fire Porshes for a while.

Sounds like started to me, as heat build up there are more resistance with electrical circuit. Since you are able to start the car fine when cold.

It sounds like I am having very similar if not the same symptoms you are. I've replaced the battery and nothing changed. Sometimes the starter will come to a complete stop and then roll over again and fire the engine. How hard is it to replace the starter??

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It's an easy DIY. You have to remove the throttle body and the intake plenum to gain access, but once you do that it's all straightforward.

To replace the starter in a 996 is way easier than the older 911s which you have to remove the drive axle and sometime even drop the motor a little just to gain access to the top starter bolt. Like Doug said, removing the intake will allow you to gain access. When I replaced my SAI valve I was able to see the starter once the alternator and SAI valve was removed. You could try to remove the alternator and the SAI valve instead of the intake to gain access.

Anyone have a DYI thread or anything similar? Photos would be a bonus. Thanks

I don't think there is enough room to actually get the starter out without removing the plenum. It is pretty tight as it is:

Thanks Doug! What exactly is the PLENUM? I notice there are Bosch starters on ebay for around $230 Pratt, how do you plan to proceed? Thanks to everyone for the input as always. This site is very good at putting your mind at ease.

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The plenum is the composite (plastic) piece that mounts the throttle body. Paragon Products had the starter (Bosch re-manufactured) for $190.69 + refundable core. Be mindful of the hard plastic vacuum lines, especially the one you can't see that is attached to the intake bridge (the rubber piece connecting the intake halves visible at the top of the last pic I posted), because you'll snap it off when you remove the starter. That's why the hose clamps are loose on that part in my pic - I needed to rotate it around to effect a repair.

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The lights don't dim when the car is starting, which is why I didn't think battery. Even when the starter is "struggling", the lights/radio/etc act normally. Of course, I still haven't gotten the battery tested, so I can't rule that out yet. Bob

Bob, I can pretty much guarantee you that it's the starter. I've had the problem since I bought my car 4 months ago. I just went ahead and changed the battery hoping that was the issue. Wishful thinking on my part. A new battery did nothing and the car acts exactly the same. Mine does the same....no dimming or anything related to a weak battery. It's just the starter and it decides to work better at some times and other times it makes you feel like you may be stranded. However, the starter NEVER really turns the motor like I feel it should, even when it isn't doing the whole "pause" thing.

PS......my volt meter is on par with everyone else's. It stays on or slightly below 14.

Don't rule out the igition switch,

Any idea how to identify whether it's the starter or ignition switch?

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I got the battery tested, and its fine. So from everyone's input here it seems very likely that it's the starter. I've had an ignition switch go bad, and that behaved very differently, so I'm sure that's not it. Until the problem gets worse and/or I have some time on my hands, I'll probably do nothing. If it is a starter/heat problem, I'll have to do something before summer temps arrive, so I'll either replace the starter myself or take it to a local garage (any independent recommendations on the SF Peninsula?). I've got the tech manuals, and it looks like a pretty easy task, its more if I want to spend time or money on the problem. Bob

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It is your starter. I am 100% sure. Don't mess with the battery or the alternator or ignition switch. I had the exact same symptoms for the last 6-12 months, with the exact same car [MY 2000 C2]: cold start (or 1st start) was not really a problem (well it appeared at the time to be ok (see below)). Any other start after the engine was running for more than 5 minutes seemed like a "low" battery. Sometimes it would need a good cranking to get going. I was contemplating whether I would be stranded due to a non-starting car (which didn't seem out of the question - although the symptoms weren't that dramatic). Eh, I tend to get nervous early, lol. Anyway, I had the battery replaced, and this helped, but did not fix the problem. I had a fuel systems diagnostics done and there was no fuel systems issues. Turns out the starter was just old. I had the starter replaced under my aftermarket warranty and all is right as rain. In fact, in retrospect my cold starts were actually a little slow. With the new starter, it fires up almost instantly whether cold, 2nd, 3rd, etc. etc. I believe that a new starter plus all labor would have been around $1000. My out of pocket was $50 under warranty. -td

Just bought a starter off ebay. Hard to believe the price so I hope it's okay. A NEW Bosch for $206, plus shipping. I think I will just give my local mechanic the proper directions and let him take a shot at it. I'm pretty sure he's never worked on a Porsche. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-B...QQcmdZViewItem

That is a very good price for a new unit. Let us know if the problem is fixed.

I thought that price was unbelievable as well. Pelican wanted $250, plus a core charge of $100 for a remanu. starter.

last time I discovered I had a starting problem was when my P didn't start...hope this helps. 1st time I blew (a fuse) had it towed and paid 175 bucks to get the fuse replaced (yes I am an idiot) 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5time I drained the battery, left XM radio charger in lighter and last time I replaced the battery..... Now my P drives like never before......Okay now I am reading your last post and you were referring to a actual starter!!! Anyway just read this for no reason.....