SON DOES NOT WANT THE 03 TARGA :-(

Gents, As I mention in earlier post, I was given my son (Justin) my 03 Targa which I love and Modded the hell out of it (Tastefully done I must say) As of today he informs me he wants a NSX "Because it is better looking and cooler" I can respect his opionion, after all we all have one. My question to you is this: How are the NSX in terms of Performance, Handling, Speed and vaule ? I know there good runner, after all it's a Honda. Any info is much appericated. In regards to my Targa, well I am just going to hold on to it, Once my Turbo comes, I may just make it my track car. Take Care my Brothers.

Boy, you have a picky son! I was happy long ago to only get the old volvo wagon!

How old is your son?

Likewise... But for what it is worth, He is a great kid.. I am lucky... No biggie, he is picky like his DAD :-) I just want to obtain info from someone who has driven the NSX in comparsion to the 996. I have only driven PORSCHES so I do not know....

19

Boy, that seems a bit tough. A 19 year old turns down a Porsche, hoping for an NSX. I wish I'd been there at 19.

wow!!!

I actually was also considering an NSX. After driving it I decided to go 911. The NSX I drove didnt have power steering and I liked that but it was really uncomfortable for me(5-11" 265lbs). Lucky kid, My first car was a mercedes station wagon.

wow....19...i'd be very hesitant. i'm a dad too...my kids are way younger, but when i was 19...i was an idiot. I've wrapped my share of cars around some trees...kind of. they have that gps type unit you can put in the car to track mileage and speeds....something i may consider for my boys when they get older...if they are anything remotely like me when they drive at a young age. on a side note...when i was selling my '85 targa...i had a dad who was going to give me full price, and he was purchasing for his 16 year old kid, who was weeks from turning 17. i turned him down when i found that out. he was not happy. my 2 comments were....I love this car too much to let a young kid beat the living **** out of it...and he's gonna end up wrapping it around a tree....i'm really sorry....this is not an easy car to drive. oh well....good luck with all of that.....sorry if i'm raining on the parade a bit.... j

spoiled.....get him a Civic...and in a year offer him the Porsche Again....when he PAYS he can be selective....Geez...19 year old TURNS DOWN a Porsche because its not cool enough? And the dad wants him to be happy??? Geez....I only thought this kinda stuff happened on TV. Where is B Choi?????

Can you adopt me? I'll take the Targa.

Man, you sure hear some crazy stuff on this forum. All I wanted was a bike when I was 19.

More unsolicited advice - 19 year old with porsche or nsx is trouble; no matter how good he is. Although I've often wondered if my kids could handle the responsiblity when they're older if they participated in track events or DE...

When I asked for a car I was told to get a job.

C'mon guys, the man's looking for an opinion on the NSX, not an opinion on whether his 19 year old should or should not drive a high performance car. The kid's gotta drive something and if the old man can afford to get him something nice, then all the power to him. For all we know the kid is a responsible and safe driver...gawd knows I wasn't, and still aren't...but that's not the point of the post. About the NSX... I see an awful lot of NSX at the track, driven by real gearheads. The only complaint I've ever heard about the NSX is that it has no vices. It's apparently a world class car, and a bargain for what it's worth. I've never even been in one, so can't vouch, but I've heard a lot of chatter. I've passed them on the track, and I've been passed by them on the track. Goofy Porsche handling aside, I'd say it's a comparable car. Now, some personal opinion...I'm still a dyed in the wool Porsche guy, so wouldn't choose a NSX, in fact I only kind of sort of considered one when I bought my 996, never drove one though. I don't like the looks, to swoopy, not functional enough. I like German cars, don't like Japanese car styling. More opinion....sure...the Targa would make a ****ty track car. So..Good luck with it. I hope that whatever the kid gets he doesn't get hurt. You know him better than we do.

I agree with the popular opinions here. Mine is 16 and a very good kid as well. Even though I can buy him a nice car (no 996 or NSX level) I am forcing him to work for one. I will help him if the grades remain good (pay half). At 19, no matter how good, he has limited experienced and maturity. A super high performance car will be pushed by a young man, what else is he supposed to do. This could be a bad combo. I fully understand that it is hard to put "giving" in check when a parent is blessed with so much. With all that said I can't believe he would turn down a P-car offer, that alone speaks loudly.

UH! HELLO, did you read the article about the 18 year old doing top speed runs in his dads M5 that killed himself and his 4 friends. You think that father didnt think his son was responsible and all that yada yada. And sorry, but your son is one spoiled SOB to be telling you the Targa wont cut it.

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I couldn't imagine giving a 19 yo a 911 or NSX (a great car BTW). Think of how you drove when you were that age- too fast, invincible, and irresponsible. +1

Adopt me. I'll take it.

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Exactly, that was a real tragedy. http://www.ocala.com/article/2008012.../BREAKING_NEWS Geez, you are just asking for trouble with any 19 yo. -- Don't give him anything with 300hp or more. If he wants a Honda, get him a whacked-out Civic with a bunch of cheesey add-ons.

A side note/clarification, and believe me I am not the sensitive type at all, my wife can second that. I can handle someone saying my son is spoiled, and this is true to a certain level. But if somebody called my son a spoiled SOB to my face, I would loose my ****. On a post, well...what could I do, write of my anger. I know no insult to that degree was the intention, and do hope RJMDAD996 is understanding of no disrespect intended.

well i got mine when i was 20... so whats the "Hot Fuzz"?

Guy buys his daughter a new car for her 16th birthday. When the girl sees it, she complains to her dad she wanted a black car, not a red car. Dad says, "Oh, that's ok, I can still take it back." Daughter says "You're the best, daddy." Dad returns the car. Moral of the story: When you're 19 and didn't pay for the car, be grateful with what's given to you.

I would tell you and your son to his face. I laugh at kids that are 16, 17, 18, and driving daddy's toys. I get annoyed when you ask how they got it which is an obvious question and they say, oh i work. Sorry, no kid in school works enough to be able to pay for a $50,000 car. The kids dont appreciate it because they didnt have to work for it. Not to pick a fight here, but if i saw a kid in a car he obviously didn't earn and walked around like a punk I wouldn't hold back. Of course if your son is a well mannered kid, respectful of others then thats great. But kids in expensive cars dont act that way, they get cocky and act like ******, then they are racing on onramps and weaving in and out of traffic late at night cause they think they are invincible. There was the kid 2 days ago and the M5, but a year ago there was a girl in So Cal somewhere and she got in a fight with daddy and sped off in dads porsche and then there were pictures of her exploded head all over the net. Did we forget about her as well? Sorry, kids and fast cars DONT MIX! PERIOD! I dont care who you are, who your kid is, how good of a driver you think he is. They dont have enough experience and make rash decisions when it comes to driving, and its not just their lives at stake, its the people they share the roads with that are at risk too. Giving a kid a Porsche is one thing, which i think is stupid in itself. But giving a kid an NSX because he wont take the Porsche, well that sounds like a spoiled kid to me. Whats this now going to cost. You dont need the targa or dont like it so sure keep it in the family so you dont have to take a hit selling it now. But if he cant be bothered to take it, then you have to sell it, advertise it, loose money on that. Then buy some jokers NSX which will probably cost more anyway. Not to mention its a much older car and you will also be stuck with the repair bills, and the tubo or SC that has to be added, cause an NSX aint fast enough as it is of course. yada yada yada Good luck with this one.

judgment aside, I just so happened to spend 30 minutes today comparing service costs and intervals with an NSX owner on santa monica, and while a half an hour is not exhaustive, the following generalizations can be made: 1. They are expensive to insure, comparatively 2. They don't break very often, but... 3. ...when they do, parts are an arm and a leg (including clutches, relevant to sponsor of younger driver) 4. Service intervals are infrequent and inexpensive. Subjectively, I do think the car's styling is dated, although having it next to the 911 does make you realize how much lower those NSXs were, they definitely have a distinct visual impact, and look "special". Their reputation for reliability approaches legend, but I would take that with a grain of salt. Reliability on an older vehicle is more about that car in particular, not the make and model, so a pre purchase inspection is advisable. Don't buy a car thats had a lot of track time, major mods, especially ecu/injectors/nitrous (you'll be surprise at how 'hopped up' these second hand NSXs are as a percentage compared to 911s.) run a carfax, these things don't get right after a crash. Objectively, it's down on power and more neutral, unless he tries to drop in a turbo I think it would be harder to wrap around a tree. They also hold value remarkably well, low volume, same product for years, etc. Should a new body style ever come out you may take a hit, but all these things depreciate. If I were you, I would get him a performance driving school safety course before giving him the keys, so he can explore in a safe environment and get serious instruction in how to stay away from trees, and if you'll be subsidizing maintenance, a good third party honda mechanic and a cheap source of parts. I don't know if i'd put gps/tracking in, but i'd tell him it was there just for laughs later! He'll come around by the time he's done with college and realize he should have taken the 911, but thats just part of growing up!

I would like to hear from your son himself. Could he log on?

Good point about the targa being a ****ty track car. A glass roof aint ideal for a track car where center of gravity is important.

I'm 19, and I would kill for a 911 targa...what is your son thinking?? he wants a Honda so he can be a ricer??

I bought my 79 911SC at age 19 because my dad told me when I was 10 that he wasn't going to buy me a car. I saved, invested, reinvested, and had a nice chunk of change from summer jobs by age 19, and bought a "beater" 911. Was I a punk back then? Absolutely not. However, I did some crazy things in that car as I learned my "driving bounds". Your son will too. Please be careful. That M5 incident in Florida was a reminder to all of us... Now an NSX over a Targa? No way! That is crazy talk! -B

the NSX is a daily drivable kinda sub super car. they are wicked quick for a N/A v6 but exhaust systems tend to be hard to do it it and don't gain you much. can't really do much to make them faster short of a super charger or some kind of turbo system. but they handle amazingly well and i've seen them girl a 911 a run for it's money on the tracks. the NSX is an amazing car as for you're son wanting one over a 911, well that's up to him, i'm sure he has his reasons i just hope it's not an outside influence telling him a porsche can't be modified or that he saw a crazy NSX and thinks he could build one just like it. jsut my 2 cents

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So you don't have any class after all, no big surprise. You don't know **** of him and his son or me and my son for that matter. Spoiled? yes, fine say so, I agreed and stated so myself. But to call a Fathers son a SOB is simply wrong even behind your keyboard. I was giving you the benifit of a doubt, to bad I was mistaken. Apparently it is easy for you to type crap from your home, must make you feel like a big man. You probably don't have kids, even if you do, at 28 you have much to learn and go through yourself. Not all punks are spoiled, there are far worse punks than those young kids who drive das's car, as you have demonstrated so well.

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The boy realizes Porsches attract men's attention quicker than women's.. Smart man.. lol!

My .02 - it's your kid. Buy him whatever the hell you want to. Only you will have to deal with the joys and consequences of your decision, not this board.

I think Jasper's analysis is pretty accurate. But I still think that you should adopt me and give me the Targa. I'll even wash your Turbo for you, as every good kid should do. OTOH, I'd *seriously* think about the crash worthiness of each car before committing to it. It will get crashed.

I have two sons who recently passed through the 19 year old turnstile. The first one was All-American boy but he didn't know (or care to know) anything about how to maintain a car. He neglected his first car and went car-less for fours years until graduating from college (even though he went to school 8 hours away). His graduation gift from college was a 2 yr old Ford Explorer which he now stays on top of. Enter son number 2. By the time he was ready to drive, my STS was already 10 years old. I kept it just because I figured I have two teenage sons. When they have their first accident(s), I want them to be driving a big vehicle. He didn't disappoint. On Sept 3, 2003 while driving to his high school, he hit a telephone pole head on. Very fortunately, he and his passenger (his best friend since kindergarten) had their safety belts on. Also very fortunately, the vehicle struck the pole off center of the middle of the front bumper, causing the car to spin. It ended up 10 yards further than the broken pole, facing the opposite direction. The pole actually saved their lives I believe, because had they not hit the pole they would have gone down a 10-15 foot culvert and face planted the car. At 45 miles per hour they would have had the full impact of that. He said he had just checked the time on his cell phone and when his eyes returned to the road it was too late to avoid the pole (thank God). That pole is less than 1/2 mile from my home. Every time I drive by it I thank God for totaling my car and the pole and giving us my son and his friend. The point of my story? I have no idea what the safety statistics are on the NSX compared to the 911 but since I didn't see any reference to safety after reading all preceding posts on this subject (the subject immediately caught my eye because of the above) I thought I would throw that in. It is not a case of "If he has his first automobile accident..." God Bless you and your families as he has mine. Andy T Ps. A business code of conduct that has worked successfully since the beginning of time is... "Address the issue(s), never attack the individual." Perhaps we can adopt this as our code of conduct when posting on this site.

Apterr: Great idea for that code. Very well put. Thank you for that. The issue at hand: NSX is a great car. Reliable, stylish and a solid platform. The same goes for the NSX as does a Porsche. The newer, the better. There were small updates to the car the design went through its tenure. On another note...Way too much car for 19 year old. Unless that 19 year old has significant car control training, racing experience and responsibility. While terrible, please remember that poor 18yr old girl from California and the Porsche she wrapped around a toll booth. Those horrific photos are forever burned into my mind. I will never forget them. Just my opinion. Each to their own I guess...and yes, I am a Dad too. C.

+1 Viper. It must have taken me more than 7 minutes to write my post!

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If your track mate is Michael Schumacher, don't start with an '03 Targa. If your track mate is a balding dentist alternating behind the driver's seat with his third wife, the Targa will work just fine. While I don't have any figures in front of me, I've been told those carbon fiber roof skins on the BMW M-cars are more for pretty looks than actually lowering the center of gravity much.

nsx is a great car, similar years, it is very comparable to a 996 with the porsche having a very slight advantage on corners... GL luck to you, let us know what you decide to do...

Personally I think if a parent is giving a son/daughter a car, it should be a regular car. That in itself is generous, as is often the most valuable posession a person of that age might own. If this is given rather than earned, it can set a perception of the value of money. Whatever you decide, consider the speed and safety of the vehicle. Read the article on the M5. I say let your son get a job and buy a car for himself, and perhaps put some money towards it if you wish to do so. Good luck in your decision. Plus, I am sure the NSX is reliable, and I hear its an excellent drivers car.

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Hey Zook, No offense....but who paid for your car and what do you do for a living.

It's funny to see folks tell a grown *** man, with a 19 year old son, that basically raised his child in a Porsche to get the boy a Yugo. I guess it is true, opinions are like *** holes because this board certainly has plenty.. lol!

In one of the clubs that I race with, there is this 18 year old (at the time, it was a couple of years ago), that had really proven himself. Great kid, great driver, very respectful of everyone on the track. We ran an enduro and I think it was his first one. They won their class and after the cool down lap he proceeds to do donuts on the front straight (which no one ever does at our events). He ends up clipping one of the retaining walls. He was OK. Car was not hurt to bad. I guess what I'm saying is that even though he had proven him self time and time again on the track as being responsible and very capable, he got caught up in the moment. I had thought about an NSX before I got my Porsche but went with the Porsche because I liked the "class" of the car. If I were 19, I'd probably take the NSX.

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Not always true. I've been tracking and DDing high HP RWD cars since i was 16/17. If the kid respects the car, and understands how much **** he will be in and how much it costs to repair things, it helps keep em smart Having said that though, you're entitled to your opinion as much as I am mine and i will concede that a lot of kids shouldn't be behind the wheel of a high HP RWD car, but some do just fine. to answer the original poster's question regarding the performance of the cars and not his parenting abilities (which are really non of our business): The stock NSX vs. a stock targa: I think it is close. the 996's are more powerful and faster, but handle in that "911" sort of way, which is to say not as good as the NSX. the 996 should be faster overall because of its additional grunt. it shouldn't be too hard finding one to test drive since they have a habit of sitting around on lots. In my opinion, get an older gen one when they still had the flipup headlights, the new style headlights are just Pug Fugly in my opinion.

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A very well written post, and a good point regarding the saftey issue of the two cars. Many board members here have unfortunatly been involved in track/street accidents but fortunatly just about all of them have walked away. The 996 is a VERY safe car, especially with a rear rollbar installed. I'm not so sure about the NSX on the other hand as it was made during that era of 90's japanese sports cars, where aluminium sheeting thin enough to dent when you slammed a door was used for maximum performance. The cars (my experience with RX-7's mostly) crumple like tin, which is good in the sense that it removes the stresses from teh crash away from the body and dissipates them within the car, but if he hits something hard enough or takes a hit to the side square in the door (specifically the door because there's a really huge steel member running across teh dash area), that could be bad news bears. My advice would be to try to avoid having him speed (excessivly) on the road. Drill it into his head. We all do 10-15 over, but re-enforce the point that if he gets a 25 over ticket, you'll yank his keys. Sign up for track days, maybe something you can do as father/son activities? You in the Targa or something, vs. him in the NSX and then you can trash talk each other afterwards about who was fastest thru Turn 3 .

19 year old + high-performance sports car = BIG insurance premium! There are plenty of statistics that show, on average, young men are higher risk behind the wheel of any car ... now put them at the wheel of either of these cars, paticularly when they have a passenger with them .... My 2 boys (19 and 22) share a Ford Escape .... imho, safer than one of the small rockets out there or an NSX or 911, oh and we have to fight with the snow in Toronto as well. ... just my $.02

Buy him a GTI and tell him he's damned lucky to get that.

i totaled my s2000 when i was 22 outta college, i drove like crazy it was great

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wow its people like you that have no class and your stupid, an ******* and just jelous... get a life... Jelousy kills from the inside get some help... just because you wernt born into a rich family, dont be jelous of what other people have.... honestly grow up and open your eyes plus your an iggnorant *******, shows your class again, you dont belong here

wtf

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lol hahahahahah +1

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im Middle Eastern (Kuwaiti), everything is given to us on a silver platter by our native government, benifits of Oil Money

Agree with Jasper....a lot of time spent sidestepping the guy's question. I considered an NSX back when I was first looking to buy something to replace my motorcycle...I'm getting older and at 64 decided that I needed four wheels under me. My good friend has an NSX he offered up...immaculate....in a sort of seal grey color. The car drives like a Lexus....very smooth, low maintenance, pretty bulletproof according to my friend. It appeals to the younger set due to the wedge shape and spoiler. It performs well due to the mid engine configuration so its popular at the Auto-X events. My X50 outpeformed it when we went out for a day, but in the twisties, it's right there. What turned me off was that it has absolutely no room in it to carry much more than a briefcase or a good looking girl in the passenger seat. I guess for a young man, there's no need for much else. After all is said and done, I'm so glad I turned to the Porsche, but then again, I'm now 66 and am looking for more comfort, room, and amenities. My friend is glad I didnt' buy it, although he seldom drives it anymore.

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In Ontario, Canada yes, in teh USA no... My friend 20 in Washington DC drives a 2003 F-Car 360 Spider, pays $550 for 6 Months and that includes both is younger Sisters on the Car PS: $550 was 2 years back when he 18...

There are too many pages to read right now, but if you do a search on youtube, I believe top gear reviewed the NSX in an "old supercar" show , Against old ferrari, Jaguar, Porsche, etc. Jeremy Clarkson was not too keen on it if I remember.

I could care less what other people have. I am not motivated by money. As for the kid, i dont know him and i dont really care to know him. But the one thing I do know which was shared by the father is that a kid turned down a targa because it wasnt cool enough for him at 19. Sorry but that is a spoiled kid. Simple enough, thats my opinion and I know i am not alone in it. I am perhaps the only one willing to say it though. But that being said, if you want to give them the car of their dreams as a first or second car, go for it. (What will they then have to look forward to in the future though? Wont this sap motivation though? Perhaps?) The issue of kids driving sports cars is potential problem for all people driving on the roads. Sure giving a kid a Porsche dosent mean that he is going to wreck or potentially kill himself or someone else. But you give a kid the tool to something like that and its only increasing the chances that something will happen. Its been proven by history, I am not making this up, its a very real thing. Zookie I can picture exactly what you look like and how you act based on your replies. You've told me enough about you. Born with a silver spoon, good for you. Sure it would be cool to have cars thrown at you, but I'm not jealous of you friend.

"So you don't have any class after all, no big surprise. You don't know **** of him and his son or me and my son for that matter. Spoiled? yes, fine say so, I agreed and stated so myself. But to call a Fathers son a SOB is simply wrong even behind your keyboard. I was giving you the benifit of a doubt, to bad I was mistaken. Apparently it is easy for you to type crap from your home, must make you feel like a big man. You probably don't have kids, even if you do, at 28 you have much to learn and go through yourself. Not all punks are spoiled, there are far worse punks than those young kids who drive das's car, as you have demonstrated so well." ls911 I said the kid was spoiled, you yourself have admitted the same thing? So why are you mad? You share the same opinion I do, whats the problem? And as for SOB, it was said tongue in cheek, relax, it wasnt even directed at you. It also wasnt meant as an insult. I stand by what i said and you too seem to agree with me. So is there really any issue here? cheers

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Zoookie, Your above post reeks with class, I'm so glad you are here. To the OP, the NSX and the S2000 for that matter are excellent cars. Well built, reliable and perform well. (mostly had built in Japan on their own assembly line) For your son's sake I hope he has a respect for powerful cars, I know at 19 I didn't, but you would know him better than anyone here.

C'mon, guys. This is not about the kid. This is not about parenting. This is about a choice the kid was given. We have made it ample clear that this is not a choice we would let our kids make. Now, lets answer the question. Neither the NSX nor the targa would be my first choice. Having said that, you can't go wrong with either car. The NSX does seem to appeal more to the younger crowd, seems to look more like a supercar to the uninformed, and has performance relatively on par with the targa. If you gave him a choice, his choosing the NSX is not a bad one. This being a Porsche board, it's the wrong choice, but still not a bad one.

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awwwwwwww... Acceptance is one of teh stages of Denial

PS. I think we are all afraid your son may be like Zookie. I hope your son is nothing at all like Zookie, RJMDAD996. Just see my previous post.

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lol i guess then he wont have that car for very long, probely wrapped up around a tree...

Tough choice, but they're different cars for sure. I've driven both and own a 996. The NSX I have driven is one of the older models, so I cannot speak about a later model, but I don't think they have changed much over the years. In my experience, the 996 is faster, the NSX is easier to drive. NSX is very neutral, more like a Boxster. If he's going to AX, get the NSX. For DEs, I think the Targa is a good start, but the NSX would be fine. The 996 is more practical; there's room for more than your briefcase. Routine maintenance should be about the same cost, but the earlier comments about NSX spare parts are telling and accurate. Regarding his age, it's your call about giving him a nice car (I have teenagers and am often faced with decisions like this, too). There's a father/son pair that frequents our local Porsche club DEs. The father drives a 3-series BMW, the son (19 years old) drives a new Lotus Elise. The son is mature, respectful, and one heck of a driver. He has told me he likes the track because it makes him realize that driving fast on the street is for stooges, while driving on the track is safer and more fun. So if I could give you any advice, it's to get him some high performance driving experience. If he spends time at the track, perhaps he'll be bored with speed on the street.

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What?! ... Acceptance is the final of 4 stages of overcoming grief or any other major change thrown at you. Denial is one of the first stages.

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The issue is simple. The opinions and advice given were all meant in good intentions with no disrespect in mind with the exception of your SOB comment. When I attempted to "smooth" things out so the OP does not take the SOB remark wrong, you came back with "I would tell you and your son to his face" Your points made of being spoiled were quickly discredited with this show of a personal attack. I happen to grow up in a very poor/rough neighborhood just outside Mexico City. I have unfortunately seen and been through much worse than "spoiled kids" and hold no "strong" opinions against them or their parents. The big mistakes made were passing judgment without knowing the individuals and doing so by insulting ones family/son (son of a bitch is not taken lightly by all). Were I am from and raised, you simply would not last long if you did so to ones face. Claiming you would do so from the comfort of your home is a display of cowardly ignorance.

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wow dont you watch Dr. Phil?

I predict this will be one of the longest post in Rennlist history. It will also identify the 2 different kind of P car owners out there....the passionate ones and the rest. I'm pretty sure you know who you are...its is emotionally challenging to be passionate about something that is given to you. So now that we are clear, the question is why do we have members that are not passionate about their P cars on this forum? And some wonder why I don't bother attending any get togethers. Back to the original post...I don't know or care but it is obvious that this member doesn't realize that his post is disturbing. If he had rephrased his question, he would have gotten his answers without any flag. Ingorance is bliss because it's easier to support something blindly than exploring all the options. It's also easier to act on instinct and learned behaviors rather than to think about what they're saying/doing.

If you are prepared to see this at least 2x write the bigger insurance check for all the cars in your family... by all means go ahead My son bashed his learner vehicle, a Chevy s10 twice, blew the head gasket once. Each time we parked it, I paid for the parts and we spent weekends in the garage putting on new parts and fixing the engine together. A sweat equity position helped him learn what the value of money and time and the cost of his carelessness are. There is a lot of life�s lessons to be learned using sweat equity some better than a checkbook. I still will not let this older son drive the Pcar because he does not did not care about his. My youngest, works with me, washes the pcar reads about it understands and respects her. Him at 18 I let drive Your son has to learn...and you are doing the right thing by giving him choices So help him but please set him up to be successful in whatever you choose.

oh jesus ls, now your calling me a coward? What would you propose we fight in the parking lot? over what? because i think a kid is spoiled. You need to set your priorities, you would want to fight over this? is that your proposal? I have nothing more to say on this matter, i said it clearly and stand by it. As for Zookie, well i dont think i need to say anymore, the more you speak the deeper the hole you dig. I would bet that your mouth has gotten you into trouble more then once in your life. Have fun spending Kuwait's money on whatever you see fit.

Hulk Hogan's son - nuff said. C.

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hey atleast im not the Jelous/Iggnorant type, i love life...

Also, Ive already mentioned the 18 year old and the M5. I also mentioned the 18 year old girl in OC whose pictures were all over the web. (INCREDIBLY GRAPHIC!) But does the 996 board not remember the 17 ear old who taped a video of himself going 173 on the interstate some 6 months or 1 year back? Do we not remember him? He posted on Rennlist and got allot of **** for it. Sorry but young kids and cars dont match well says history. They are poor decision makers from lack of experience. If you insist on giving a kid a car like that, then be prepared for the consequences, wether it be high insurance (who cares really) to possibly the worst case scenario. Thats your decision, but I know from history how i would choose. I suggest you just take a look at the past, maybe that can sway your decision as well.

and why do you think i am jealous? Do you have anything else to contribute zookie? I'm glad your enjoying your life, keep at it dear boy

Gents - You are missing my point - Disregard Justin Age - I am looking for any input on the NSX as a compare to the 996 - My son is to much of a careful person to be aggresive - If he puts 500 miles in three months that would be allot. Also to be clear - I am not buying the NSX for him, I just wanted info on the NSX. If he dose not want the targa, Hello GTI.. Lastly - In regards to the Targa being a bad track car - I couldn't disagree more - after modifications to the platform and suspension she handles awesome Two of the professional drivers at Porsche Road Atlanta were completly impressed.

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[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/burnout.gif

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You said.... "As of today he informs me he wants a NSX "Because it is better looking and cooler" I can respect his opionion, after all we all have one." If your son only dirves 500miles in 2 months, he doesn't need a car...he wants a car. LOL

Hey Ryan P., I feel ya, you just had the ***** to say it......... I got pissed at this post but bit my tongue.

Thanks Cory

RJMDAD996 no one knows your son better then you do. If you feel thats the right thing, then go for it. I appreciate the way you took whats been said. Nothing is personal here. Good luck

Guys I am truly not sure how or why this posting got overboard, the question was simple, "What is the compare of 996 and NSX" not about my son or how spoiled he is or is not, is not about fatherhood or his racing fast in either car and what happens to other kids at a early age in fast cars - For what it is worth, Justin has attended three driving schools with me- two in the states and one in Germany. I thought this forum was about technical information and experience sharing, not judging other man's decision and of the way he may treat his children. Who are we to judge one another? Thank you to the ones who posted valued information - ( 67FJ45 & IS911) Memebers if you’re not going to be helpful go back to your XBOX and let the grownups communicate. It’s adult swim time.

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I'd agree with all - if it was not for your sensational topic title... You get what you ask for. NSX in the tile woud of set the stage better.

Thanks to the following for your possitive feedback - Seeu911 - Ryan - Vrinner - Palting - Dead-Eye. My aplogies regarding the way this post went, it was not my intent..

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Your welcome.......I was just hatin' but man, what a lucky kid to have the option and a Father who will allow it. My Father would of punished me and made me drive a beater for even questioning him. haha

Hey RJMDAD996, need another son?

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Your post have help identify some real interesting characters on this forum. So I have to thank you. :-)

Amazing To type "Your son is a spoiled SOB, I would tell it to your face" That is big *****? What is wrong with that? whets the big deal? Then to follow with Nothing is personal? Look, I joke around and do my fair share of pocking fun, which is different. I am not calling you out to a fight, THAT IS a joke. I am calling out your ignorance and disrespect for a Father and his son, period. My definition of ***** is very different. I will not threaten you or talk **** of a fight, not my way. I was not raised that way and come from a different culture, that is obvious to me. It is sad that you don't recognize the issue/insult at hand. I am finished with this. RJMDAD, I am sure you have a good son and close relationship with him, I know first hand how that is If I came across as judging, my apologies to you. I did (as others) what you to think about the potential of a bad accident and expressed my thoughts on a son growing up appreciating the value of things. This, as I said, can be difficult to do for a Parent that is blessed with wealth. I hope you understand the intentions from my original post. I did have a strong reaction to Ryan’s remark. Turns out it was a failed attempt towards damage control and a waste of time. Ludwig

Sorry, Buy him a 1982 Ford Escort and tell him he can walk or drive. Never kick a gift horse and never miss the opportunity to show that things in life require a price. Agree way too spoiled and yes I would say this to you in person if you asked my opinion and better yet would talk with your son. I am sure he is a good kid but he expects too much IMHO. Good Luck

^^^rountreed, wow that front end looks good

Roundtreed great mention of a very famous saying "never look a gift horse in the mouth" Its been around for probably 100 years or more and for good reason. I think thats exactly what the situation looks like from the outside. Ludwig, your incredibly defensive over a topic that had nothing to do with you and whom i only addressed when you challenged me personally. If you dont care what I think why are you so interested in trying to show me the light that you apparently see? I dont agree with you, simple as that. And because i am outspoken here that dosent mean i keep shut when out and about. I speak my mind, i try not to go out of my way to insult someone but with this i have very strong belief based on past experience. Best to just leave it at that, we have differing opinions, this is not personal, its a difference of opinion.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth Meaning Don't be ungrateful when you receive a gift. Origin This comes into the category of phrases called proverbs, that is, 'short and expressive sayings, in common use, which are recognized as conveying some accepted truth or useful advice'. As horses age their teeth begin to project further forward each year and so their age can be estimated by checking how prominent the teeth are. This incidentally is also the source of another teeth/age related phrase - long in the tooth. The advice given in the 'don't look...' proverb is: when given a present, be grateful for your good fortune and don't look for more by examining it to assess its value. As with most proverbs the origin is ancient and unknown. We have some clues with this one however. The phrase was originally "don't look a given horse in the mouth" and first appears in print in 1546 in John Heywood's A dialogue conteinyng the nomber in effect of all the prouerbes in the Englishe tongue, where he gives it as: "No man ought to looke a geuen hors in the mouth." Me? I'm staying away from geuen hors and keeping the Targa.

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So is this the attack on you? Come on now. I am sensitive and so is my son IF anybody calls his mother, my wife, a bitch. GET IT? IS THIS NOT CLEAR? If you are outspoken enough to call out strangers on the street throwing out insults, such as "your boy is a spoiled SOB" cause you feel strongly about this, you would not walk the streets for long. This I know as I also know you doing this is just BS talk.

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I was referring to the above, specifically "Were I am from and raised, you simply would not last long if you did so to ones face. Claiming you would do so from the comfort of your home is a display of cowardly ignorance." Now you tell me what you meant by that?

AND AGAIN! I WASNT TALKING ABOUT YOUR DAMN SON! Why are you even continuing on with this! The post was about the original poster, not you! Only after making my mention did you start with you thinking your son was spoiled so you take offense to me telling someone else i think their kid is spoiled. I wasnt talking to you and this is getting stupid now, i wont comment on it further. Cheers

In comparing the NSX and the 996, remember that the handling is significantly different. Any mid engine platform will typically handle very well up to the limit. Similarly, it is 'easy' to drive to the limit. The problem comes up when you start exceeding the limits of the car. There is no polar momentum in the car and recovery can be very difficult for an inexperienced driver. With the 996, most of the P-car's bad habits have been excised almost to the point of being a little boring. When things get a little out of control, there is still an opportunity to recover or correct (normally because the limits are a little lower). Personally, the NSX doesn't do it for me. I like something a little more raw and a little less refined. On the safety topic I think you're going in the right direction by *not* buying him an SUV or multi-passenger vehicle. Statistically, kids are safer when driving by themselves in cars. Limiting his passenger count significantly reduces his distractions. Also, whatever you get him, take him to DE so he can learn to drive either of the cars at a higher level than insert key push pedal.

"these cars are amazing Just got back from a little run with my friend. We were just crusing on the highway and i was wondering what my car with 111K miles and a leaky engine was capable of... so we whipped out the camera and had some fun... the thing got to 160 pretty quickly and the it seemed to just jump up to 170 and me finally letting go of the gas pedal at 174mph.... i was so damn impressed that the car with that much milage still had it in it... i have a video and im trying to post it on utube so u can all see... o and don't mind the language its an inside joke between my friend and i because he is half black so im really sorry if i hurt or offended someone with what was said i don't mean it offensivly and im just used to saying to him.... i tried to bleep it out but i have no video editing skills." Please someone post a link to the thread under the title "these cars are amazing" ( I cant figure out how to do that) This is about the 17 year old kid from this forum going 170 on the highway.

I am depressed by this thread. I had an idea where it would go and thought it might be amusing but the vitriolic slop being slung just isn't right. I have a request of the mods; can you please institute some bare minimum behavior standards on the board? Opinions are great, but personal attacks should simply not be a part of things.

It strikes me that for as much as I don't like the judgments people make about me for owning a Porsche (sexual inadequacy, rich) and a Miata (gay), you can't judge someone or their kid for what they have in this world. These are the things that fathers and sons bond over; I can't respect someone that's willing to tell a guy what he should or should not do with his money or his family. That said, I took some heat for once mentioning that my 996 would probably be handed down to my daughter when she gets her license. AWD, PSM, ABS, SRS, great safety record, no room in the back seat? And I should put her in an '82 Escort? Yeah, right... Half or more of the posters in this thread should MYOFB...

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RJMDAD, please, don't apologize, you have nothing to apologize for. Another suggestion is: give him the targa, and tell him if he wants an NSX, he can sell it and haggle with someone for his NSX. His style and taste differ from ours, we like the 911 lines, he prefers the NSX - it is considered the japanese ferrari afterall. Anyhow, if he still thinks he wants an NSX after rollin up to school in a 911, let him sell it for as much as he can squeeze out of someone, and get an NSX, he'll come away with the car he wants and a hands on lesson in negotiating.

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Longer than the "I'D Hit It Thread"? i Think NOT! besides..i think the award for king **** disturber is a toss-up between: RedUFO, GhettoRacer and NOBLEGT3 Zook, we're gonna have to try better to make that top 3 list

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This is a great idea. Also, I've noticed that people seem more upset over the kid simply being offered a choice than anything else. If he'd have just shown up on RL with pictures of his Targa, everyone would have been all high-fives and asking for pictures.

My first car was a 1971 VW Super Beetle it was sunkist orange. It had a Porsche exhaust on it. PS I was adopted I think I am your biological son. I am 35 now. So Dad, Can I have the Targa?

When I was 17 I was offered my moms 1989 Targa. I said no I wanted a newer car and went with the Supra TT. To this day I regret my decision. It took 12 years and my wife’s money to get me back to my real dream car. Sounds like he just wants something different, but as I found out it doesn't mean it will be better.

I, like so many others, am also baffled by the degree to which this child seems to be spoiled. However, to adress the actual "issue" of the thread, from what I know, Nsx's are great cars. They eat through rear tires but are very reliable.

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what supra generation was out at that time? 3rd or 4th?

Knowing how I would have driven at 19 had I had a Porsche to play with (or NSX) I'd fear my kid would 'find out what the car could do' and get into serious trouble, either killing himself or somebody else in the process. Whatever your decision hope it works out for you.

Case in point, http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/08/26/hogan.crash/ Read his interview. Talk about spoiled! The kid needs to take an English class. What a tool! http://www.rides-mag.com/online/?p=770

What a dip**** the hulks kid is He brags about getting pulled over once going over 100 then pulled over a second time and then a third all within 30 minutes. What an *******. Come on Hulk, leg drop that punk!

I can't marry Brooke now. I don't want Nick being an Uncle to our children... -B

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He may be a tool, but I sure hope that I'm not judged by the actions of my peers.

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Nope. Has nothing to do with you bub. Nick Hogan is a tool. LOL!!! There is nothing wrong with spoiling your child as long as they are taught honesty, integrity and respect.

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4th Its was in 93-94

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+1!! I mean, what kinda car does this kid drive now that he'd turn down a Porsche? Cmon, the kid is 19. He should happily take the 911 and realize it's a great gift and it's from you, his dad and show you SO much appreciation. He has the nerve to turn it down and say he wants something better (in his mind)? Cmon, your kid has NO gratitude. I think it's sad. Reminds me of the girl, violet from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Daddy, I want it, get it for me!! If the kid accepted the car and showed his appreciation, then drove the car for 6 months and said dad, I LOVE the porsche and thanks SO much, but I might wanna sell it and get an Acura NSX, will you help me? I'll pay the diff if there is any, that would be different. Then you could say, i will or won't help and I will or won't help pay the diff. But, for him to just turn it down and say, sorry, not good enough? Your kid has SOME nerve!!! Remember, this is just my opinion, and just cause you may not have wanted to hear it upon your post, this is what happens on message boards.

The OP has been tolerant and a class act say the least. So the kid might be spoiled to a level some judged to be wrong. Is that such a big deal or problem that some feel the need to strongly point this out to the Father and son. Even worse, some do so with insults. Do you even know them or who they are? Only a fraction of the whole story was posted. Why did the OP not disclose the rest of his story with all the facts and details that lead up to his question? Because it is his family business and none of ours. The fact is most Americans are spoiled, including kids. A 16 year old kid with any kind of car is spoiled. To what degree do people judge it to be such a big problem or crime? When food is wasted? When we do not eat because we don't like the taste? The same message has been said to the OP over and over again. Yea....I'll even tell them how messed up and wrong they are to their face" ha...as if you were their close friend or family. What a joke

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It's amazing what people are willing to say to other people when they have the Internet to shield them. As I've said, it seems that most people are more upset that the kid was given a choice than anything else. If he'd have just shown up on RL with a Porsche, nobody would have thought much of it--they'd have just asked for pictures.

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Read through almost all this thread and then stopped, realizing I am just going to try and help with the question... NSX is an amazing car, in fact my top choice over the 05 997 I just bought last night.... very strong repair record and reliablity, IMO exotic looks, and known to be the japenese ferrari! The car has undergone little change over the years so yes technology is starting to pass it by a bit and with the HP war going on you can get cars with much more hp for less $ but overall this car is great.... people like it for daily driving and track use as well. Its fairly lightweight, has decent power, well balanced and has a touch of something when you see it as they are not all that common. I like the 02+ upgradeded front end with the non flip up lights but pre-02 are still very nice. If you get your son a NSX he will surely love the car..... it is a car that over the years still held it's own. Why I bought my 997, also amzing vehicle + has room for others with back seats...not going to track with my little guy in the back seat but nothing wrong with a nice sunday drive wioth teh wife and child in the Carerra.... I would rather have an amazing son, that had good values, was honest, did well in school, didn't get in trouble etc. maybe spoiled with an NSX then a stuck up, terror teen, in trouble, slacker, running with a bad crown, defiant and a bad kid with no NSX ....

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Read through almost all this thread and then stopped, realizing I am just going to try and help with the question... NSX is an amazing car, in fact my top choice over the 05 997 I just bought last night.... very strong repair record and reliablity, IMO exotic looks, and known to be the japenese ferrari! The car has undergone little change over the year so yes technology is starting to pass it by a bit and with the HP war going on you can get cars with much more hp for less $ but overall this car is great.... people like it for daily driving and track use as well. Its fairly lightweight, has decent power, well balanced and has a touch of something when you see it as they are not all that popular. I like the 02+ upgradeded front end with the non slip up lights but pre-02 are still very nice. If you get your son a NSX he will surely love the car..... it is a car that over the years still held it's own. Why I bought my 997, also an amazing vehicle + has room for others with back seats...not going to track with my little guy in the back seat but nothing wrong with a nice sunday drive with the wife and child in the Carerra.... I would rather have an amazing son, that had good values, was honest, did well in school, didn't get in trouble etc. maybe spoiled with an NSX then a stuck up, terror teen, in trouble, slacker, running with a bad crown, defiant and a bad kid with no NSX ....

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agreed agreed

I think most ppl come on RL looking for friendly advice, and input from a trusted circle of guys they consider 'on the inside'- I couldn't agree with Jake OK more about ppl buying these cars with passion, or simply because of what they are. While I agree that 99% of the comments direct towards both you as a father, and your son have been completely out of line, I'm still not shocked to see them posted. Most RLers are passionate about these cars and can't fathom being in your shoes...having to make this decision, and even further-more as a site based on guys that truely LOVE and are Passionate about P-cars, they find it offensive that your son would turn up his nose at such a gesture. So take it with a grain of salt, however to all the guys that have worked their entire lives to purchase their dream-car, this DOES strike a nerve regardless of intent. I have extensive seat time in both cars and hands down, the 996 would be my choice. The German build quality is far better and the car has a much more solid feel. I would certainly be more concerned with safety issues, maintinance and service as it sounds like ultimately this is all comming out of your pocket. Whatever the decision is, keep your son safe and teach him to respect any car, especially those capible of 150+ mph. It would truely be tragic to look back on this thread one day and know you could have made a different choice.

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Nope, you're totally wrong as far as "my" comment goes. It has nothing to do with how hard I had to work for my car, OR has nothing to do with how much money the OP has or not being able to fathom being in "his"shoes. or how i'm insulted because he didn't want a Porsche. I simply find it sad that a 19 year old would reject a Porshce as a gift, his fathers pride and joy. Instead, he asks for more, cause that's not good enough. So, you're definitely not speaking for me.

arrOgant finds it "sad." ... Noted.

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Hah!! It IS sad! Probably hurt his dads feelings, too! Nonetheless, thanks for noting it.

I wrapped my first Porsche around a tree at the age of 17 and 10 months.....luckily it was a P and not a Japanese piece of crap..because I probably would have been dead! I don't know anything about the NSX (besides that I never really liked them...but that is personal and I am not 19)....if you got the cash to get your kid a sports car...why the hell not!! Make sure you keep on telling him everyday to be careful (he will tell you : yeah yeah yeah.....) but in the back of his head he will think about your words when his right foot gets itchy. Damn saying no to a Porsche 911 Targa.....WOW.....for a Japanese piece of crap (sorry) ..maybe he watched the fast and the furious Tokyo drift too many times!! Tell a girl I got a 911 and he will have a 3rd base date....tell her I got a honda and she will give him a peck on the cheek!!

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I'll put my bets on the Japanese for build quality over the Germans any day of the week. Driving dynamics is still squarely in the German court, though.

japanese build quality??? you got to be ****ting me???? I had a Honda and the seat didn't even last for 24K miles...and I am not overweight! I had to replace brakepads and calipers within 20K miles and I didn't drive that fast or brake that hard. The paint started to go after 18K miles here in SOCAL...but the car was sitting in the shadow most of the times.....mileage sucked and the interior rattled as loud as my 8 year old 996 cab does....and the Honda wasn't a cab or convertable......japanese build quality....yeah maybe a Lexus! or a NSX, but overal Japanese cars suck as much as the build quality of american cars!

When I was 17 I wanted a Mustang and my Dad gave me his 74 sun bug that he had as a winter beater so his targa stayed warm. I was more than happy driving down the road. After that I got a 280zx. I just bought an 88 944 garden variety completely stock for the teenager learning to drive in our house...if the cars survives him than the next boy(12 now ) will get to drive it....160 horses at best...people think you are crazt giving a kid a porsche....you must teach them to respect it and the road....of course a high performance driving school will be attended and some car control and autox's to teach. New freakin hondas have more hp and torque, also good idea to teach them how to work on their own wheels.

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<shrug> ...and I've got a '95 Mazda, a '96 Nissan, and an '03 Infiniti that have required exactly $93 in unexpected work (clutch slave cylinder on the Miata) over the course of 283k miles. OTOH, the German needed $223 to regain access to the stuck trunk and...$12k worth of new motor at 43k miles. I'll stick with the Japanese on the reliability thing, and I'm not sure that many would disagree. They sure don't feel like a P-car, though...

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I bet this is what he said to all his friends - ya, my dad was gonna give me his 2003 911 Targa, with all the mods, his pride 'n joy, I turned him down. I'm holdin' out for something better, maybe a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but I'd settle for an NSX! Oh, and Jeremy, one more thing, from the looks of the name of the thread, his dad doesn't seem real thrilled about the fact his son DOES NOT even want his car!!!! SON DOES NOT WANT THE 03 TARGA :-(

Mods....just close this damn thread already...or move it to off-topic.

Wow!! Just reading this waiting for my flight back to the States. Rick, who I have met, is a great guy and an excellent dad. I will support whichever decision you make. Your son has been driving a GTI for a few years and probably understands fast cars. He is now going to be driving a faster car. He should understand that driving is a privilage.

Buy him a ferrari 360.....if for no other reason than to prove a point. it's torqueless and slow so he'll be pretty safe too

wow, i cant belive this is still going on, unsubscribe....

osama bin laden drives an NSX....if your son gets one, he'll be supporting terrorism Fight terrorism, buy 996's.

the only thing osama would be driving would be a toyota hi-lux with an optional maching gun in the bed. I dont think NSX's work so well in the caves where that guy lives

Your son is young so his ignorance can be forgiven. jk Hell, I'd take a Boxster or a Cayman over an NSX. That being said I'm sure among a younger Fast and Furious type of crowd the NSX may very well win the popularity contest.

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cayman vs and NSX would be interesting. they have VERY similar specs. do you know what the cayman weighs off the top of your head by any chance?

2910 or there abouts

NSX is lighter, but less powerful i believe. would be a damn good race...i'd pay to see that one.