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YOUR RESEARCHDoes anyone use Citgo Gasoline?
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dictator similiar
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proven to be a dictator similiar to Castro, the only difference is that
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Voters don't choose the leader, other than in the riding in which they ran (not sure about Germany in this case, but the history books describe him as being "appointed").
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But, I suspect most people will just continue to complain rather than do anything about it.
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Please feel free to humor yourself and check my grammar and spelling.
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Do you know that without changing the mobility of anyone we could save 2/3 fuel/reduce emissions just by replacing e.g.
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Voters don't choose the leader, other than in the riding in which they ran (not sure about Germany in this case, but the history books describe him as being "appointed").
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Well, it tells you where to get it but not much else:
http://toptiergas.com/retailers.html
I think there's more information available at the retailers.
Hmmm...
I read an in depth study done by someone (BMW, I think) that actually weighed engine parts, ran engines for 100,000 miles, tore the engines down and reweighed the parts that would be subject to gasoline deposits. I didn't commit to memory all the fuel sources, but do remember the Exxon and BP were rated at the top and Texaco would not be part of the study.
This list doesn't include Exxon or BP.
Who to believe...
Guess that means I'm a traiter. Does it count that the employees there are not from Venezuala? Luckily I also use gas from the middle east like everyone else here.
lol, Chavez's big crime was not privatizing the most important resource his country has, such as he was "NICELY" asked to by proponents on "Free Trade" ie, America asking for the benefit of multinationals. What if China forced us to sell us something we had as a national resource, if we even had one, so their booming new corporations could make a buck. I wonder what American response would be? Chavez distributed the constitution to all of his people and encouraged them to read and understand it. How many of our population have read the constitution on our own? (Hmm Could Bush even get through the entire thing without help??) lol Our country doesn't want people to understand governement and the law and the peoples rights and power. THe elites in Venezuela actually were able to depose Chavez and take him out of the country, but the people rose up with their little constitutions and demanded him to be reinstalled. A tyrant? I think not, someone giving the finger to Bush, absolutely.
He also sent oil to the US to help people who could not afford home heating oil? Has Exxon, Mobil, any other multinational, or country done that? I think not. There is alot more to say about Chavez, he's not perfect but personally I respect the man a hell of alot more than a guy who in all possibilities rigged a national election to be made president. Who will go down in history as a bad guy. We'll just have to wait and see.
You just reminded me why I move out of Connecticut. Too many naive, misguided people have moved there. You should go down to Chavez's wonderful country for a month or so. You might enjoy the life style.
lol you should stop watching FOX...
BTW Thanks for the move
edit: you are now comparing life in a third world country that has been taken advatage by more powerful 1st world countries since the 16th century to our first world lifestyle. Hmm? Why don't you spend a month in the middle east...lol Bush is actually looking for recruits.
I'm neither a fan of Chavez nor the monarchs in the Middle East. It's just entertaining to see how some people make their decisions as consumers.
To boycott French wine, Venezuelan oil ... this is based on the interpretation of "democracy" of the current US government. It's not my understanding of democracy to redline someone (or even a whole country) just because their political leaders have a different opinion.
Then just how would you try to influence change within a country? The pocketbook of the consumer has brought more positive change to countries than have all the wars have. Greed is very powerful in how it changes people. If the "people" as you call them, cannot sell what they produce, they will force changes from within as necessary. The USA is a perfect example of that.
Watch what happens to Chavez when oil drops below $50.
I actually have first hand knowledge concerning what the people of
Venezuela are going through due to the exchange student who lived
with us. His parents are still in Venezuela and the freedom's are
disapeering more and more, plus they can't get any of their money
out of the country to start a new life in the United States. Chavez has
proven to be a dictator similiar to Castro, the only difference is that
he has yet to jail and murder hundred of thousands... YET............
Mark
Galeriehughie, I can follow your logic, but you've oversimplified Chavez' intentions dramatically. DICTATORS, regardless of their intentions, PERVERT the political process. You may not like the system in the states, but you CAN vote to change it. Try THAT in Venezuela.
Yes you can. Sell your Porsche and start walking. Or invent an alternative way of fueling you car and heating your home. If enough people do that, you will bring them to their knees. But, I suspect most people will just continue to complain rather than do anything about it. Complaining doesn't require then to make sacrafices.
Or, vote to allow drilling in the USA. Experts believe we have as much oil reserves as the Arabs.
Sacrifice is a lost art in the United States! Many want it all without working
for it, and then get mad at those who have sacrificed early and now have it.
The U.S., for all of it's faults, still allows a person to go from rags to riches
which is NOT true in most countries.
Mark
+1
Even while people are chastising others for not boycotting Citgo, they're ignoring that this is nothing more than a "feel good, warm and fuzzy" move that accomplishes nothing.
Besides, you guys keep blaming the Saudis, but their not even the top oil exporter to the US: Canada is. Moreover, as a perentage of our consumption, the US produces more oil than any other country: 8.37MM barrels of crude per day. Here's the
remainder
of the countries from whom we import and by how much.
The problem is that the Saudis produce the
most oil in the world
as a nation: approximately 8.65MM barrels/day for export. They are the marginal producer. Consequently, they and OPEC acting in unison can very easily manipulate global production and pricing. Moreover, their product is a light sweet crude and very very very easily refined into gasoline as opposed to the heavy sour of the Canadian tar sands in Alberta.
As 1999 suggested above, the solution is to let prices skyrocket in order to drive invention and innovation and once and for all ween ourselves off of foreign dependence for the most critical resource in demand by our country. It still blows my mind that we haven't constructed a new nuclear power plant or refinery in over 2 decades.
That's right! Unfortunately it's quite much to expect people to change without changing the system. European countries are much further in their thought process on incentivising change in behavior by setting clear signs (e.g. high tax on fuel, high tax on high emission/fuel consumption vehicles). Do you know that without changing the mobility of anyone we could save 2/3 fuel/reduce emissions just by replacing e.g. the Cayenne turbo with a BMW 320 Diesel.
Chavez is an elected official, not an appointed dictator, and I'd suggest that the "perversion of the political process" starts with telling a country unrelated to ours how they should be handling their political process.
I've got no love for Venezuela, but I've got no hate for them either. I do find it interesting that Chavez was the first to offer aid to the Katrina victims, which we QUICKLY turned down. Clearly, we were better off handling that one ourselves, eh?
I'm not asking everyone to agree with me; I'm asking them to get off their high horse and admit that boycotting a certain brand of gasoline isn't going to do squat to solve our foreign policy concerns, especially while we're still dealing with the Middle East for oil.
My dad is from Venezuela, I lived there for 12 years... Chavez is the most ignorant excuse for human being that has ever existed... you have to live there to understand
Hard to vote the way you really want to vote when one side is holding a gun to your and your family's head.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion.../mb_040820.htm
QUOTE: "Chavez is an ally of Cuba's Fidel Castro and an enemy of the United States, and he has shown no commitment to democratic principles. He sought to block the referendum by extralegal means and, having failed at that, resorted to intimidation to win it."
You're right. The world has never seen a popularly elected leader that was a bad apple. Some of the best that served their people well include:
Hitler
Hussein
Castro
Each of the above were "elected" leaders, not dictators? I sure am glad we didn't interfere with the internal politics of Germany when Hitler was in charge. There might have been a World War!
The better approach would have been to learn to speak German.
Hugo's gun must have been broken the day they voted on term limits, then, as he lost that one.
It's important to note, however, that we're not arguing about whether Chavez is a douchebag, we're arguing about whether avoiding Citgo gasoline does anything more than provide a warm fuzzy feeling to a lot of people.
Hell, IIRC, Citgo is the only place near me that I can buy the 93 octane gas that my 996 recommends. Should I be filling it with 87-octane--you know, just to spite the guy? Where will that get me?
And exactly how much of a difference will this make? More or less than my in-laws boycotting Domino's Pizza, Target, and various other retailers for various reasons?
Anyway, welcome to the global economy, fellas--some of us have been here for years.
On this you and I agree completely. If you don't buy the oil, the Chinese will. The solution is to move from oil to another technology, not to another oil company.
The solution is to actually allow drilling in Anwar, Gulf of Mexico and other
area's of our country. Moving to alternative fuels is a good LONG Term
alternative, but it won't solve anything for 20+ years.
Mark
Hussein's party assumed power in a 1968 coup, not an election. Casto was sworn into power by a revolutionary council, also after a coup. Hitler was appointed chancellor by his party after the party won a parliamentary election (leaders are not personally elected by the nation in a parliamentary system). He then appointed himself Fuhrer, combining the parliamentary powers of the Chancellor and President into one, new role. A bit like Cheney has done with the Executive Branch of your government, actually. Something to think about.
Anyway, facts wrong. I actually agree with your basic position on the subject, but you shouldn't support it with fictions. The fact is, *truly* elected leaders rarely turn into dictating tyrants. Which is something that, setting aside your appointed vice president, I admire about the American system.
I absolutely agree. Part of the reason I'm so passionate about this subject is that some people actually think they're doing something to solve the problem by buying their fuel at Citgo's competition, and I just don't feel that's heading in the right direction.
Isn't it obvious that I was being sarcastic? However, each leader DID win various national elections in their respective countries.
Hitler and the **** party first elected in September 1930.
The most recent National Election in Cuba that Fidel Castro won was just a few weeks ago.
Hussein was first elected President of Iraq in July of 1979.
Each of the above also won other elections in their countries, of which, if anyone cares to research, can be easily verified.
Here you go again. Do your homework. Given the sensitivity of the topic, I did, out of respect for the board members. The 'elections' you talk about these tyrants winning were not how they first came to power. Irrefutable fact. Germany operates a parliamentary system, just like Canada's and Britain's. Voters don't choose the leader, other than in the riding in which they ran (not sure about Germany in this case, but the history books describe him as being "appointed").
So you go right ahead and verify all you want. I'm sure our friends look forward to it. But, unlike you, I respect them and didn't go shooting my mouth off before I confirmed my beliefs with a little Googling. And a son who has a degree in history.
You really need to stop talking out of your ***.
By the way, it's unfortunate you can't actually visit Cuba. You'd see how these 'elections' are really won. You don't know what poverty means until you've had the privilege of seeing this 'democracy' in action.
It is also nominally a parliament, incidentally, so nobody votes for Castro other than the people in his home riding. He is appointed to the job by a council two levels up from municipal voting. Oh, and it's a one-party system.
I wonder what kind of oil HE uses.
Ahhh, as usual, you are trying to revise what I said...just like your history. I said that each was an elected leader. I did not say that they were FIRST elected as President as you seem to be claiming.
By your logic, George Washington was never an "elected" leader of the United States? I mean, he lead a coup against the government in the name of his outlawed congress, using Gorilla warfare (just like Castro). Yes, he was subsequently elected by the States, but so were Castro and Hussein.
BTW: I do not rely on my kid's knowledge to make an argument. Of the 3 degrees I have, History is one of them.
Between your meltdown last night and today, I am getting to believe that you actually have emotional problems. If you are already pursuing treatment, I�m glad for you.
Please feel free to humor yourself and check my grammar and spelling.
Thankfully,most people on this forum are smart enough, if interested to verify the facts. There really is no need for me to continue trying to convince you since you obviously will always respond with personal attacks.
You might be the most unfortunate case I've ever met online. Clinically delusional. Yes, I guess that is a personal comment, but I think I'm entitled after your latest outburst.
Yes, in fact, George Washington came to power the same way Castro did. Fortunately, your people made their revolution a noble one rather than a repressive one. The Cuban's was, too, in the beginning. Batista had it coming worse than George III did. Too bad about the communism...
My reference to how these guys first came to power was a logical rebuttal to your characterizing them as elected officials. The point being that I question the legitimacy of their subsequent 'elections', as would you if you did some homework. (I truly question your academic credentials, I have to confess). Unlike you, I'm actually willing to consult experts, whether related to me or not.
As for meltdowns, I'll let the record speak for itself. I'll take the same position on the matter of who needs help. I would be very grateful if you would put me on your Ignore list so that I don't need to put up with any more of this Lord of the Flies crap.
I am sorry I called you out on your original comments. They were incorrect, but it wasn't worth the trouble.
And this is a Porsche 996 forum......
from the start. Religion and politics do not belong in this site. Hey, my 99 996 with a 2001 motor runs great!!!!!! Should try some Citgo to see if it'll blow the head gasket in this motor....
It really surprises me how misinformed some people are. Chavez was only truly elected the first time. I watched the second election live on cable and it was anything but fair.
My Grandfather was jailed for 28 days because he didnt agree with Castros politics. Everyday he and a group of prisoners were taken to a wall and told they were going to be excecuted. He was also nude the entire time. Chavez, Castro they are scum bags.
They dont believe their own retoric. They talk about helping the poor while they themselves live very lavishly. Last year I was at one of the finest restaurants in Venise. This place was about 125 euros per person without wine. The waiter told me that once a month they close the restaurant for a monthly gathering of cuban and venezuelan polititions.
Say, what happened to "Isn't it obvious that I was being sarcastic?" And actually, no, it wasn't obvious. You shot your mouth off and got called on it...simple as that.
Hasn't worked too well for Cuba... isolation is a horrific way to get things done... Expose people to our life style, so they see what they miss. If we would have done that with Cuba 25 years ago, Fidel would be pushing up daisy's now and Cuba would have a much better place by now!
That type of ignorant thinking is exactly the problem with the US energy policy. 20% of Germany's electricity comes from renewables (wind and solar)... and it is neither a very windy, nor a very sunny place. The government and the people of Germany have decided that they want to be more energy independent and greener, and they committed to that with long term thinking and policy. We can't seem to do that in this country.
Same for the French... 80+% of energy comes from nuclear plants... we have been debating nuclear waste storage at Yacca mountain for a decade plus, and will continue to debate it until the 996 is an oldtimer... no VISION at all in this country/Washington when it comes to energy policy!
Dutchie:
I have no problem with the move to nuclear, wind &/ or solar power, but
this won't happen overnight. We have plenty of oil in the U.S territories
but are prevented from drilling for it by the left. It's the same left that
won't allow Nuclear Plants to be built in this country, nor wind mills near
Ted Kennedy's home etc....
As far as Germany and France, they also don't have the potential oil
reserves we have so their move to alternative sources is a smart one.
Our energy use is so much larger than both of their's combined that any
move away from oil will only be a drop in the bucket for some time in
regards to percentage of total useage. The return on investment is very
low in regards to solar / wind power at the current technological level
and until that changes, they will only be marginal alternatives.
Mark
