Dealerships

This is my first post, but I've been reading this forum for the last few weeks now. I have an observation to make... most of the owners here seem to rely on their dealership... for diagnostics, repairs, general information etc. I'm wondering if there aren't more choices for p-car owners. I ask because I work in the car industry and have very little faith in dealerships. I speak to parts and service managers on a routine basis and find that they know very little about cars.. any cars. When I read that people pay in excess of 150.00 for an oil change, it makes me think that the people on this forum are being taken advantage of. When people have engine problems, a good tech will be able to diagnose what's happened... not just a blanket, "you need a new engine" statement. I've been reading that some people feel the 996 engine has design problems, but no one seems to know what they are... except for RMS... but even that has a lot of opinions. Has anyone ever taken apart a 996 engine that has failed to see what actually went wrong? Were the heads warped, were the rods bent, spun bearings? I'd be very skeptical to replace an engine because a dealership told me I needed one. My cousin worked for a luxury car dealership, I'd prefer not to mention what make, but they have a very good reputation. Anyway, after spending many hours there and having long conversations with him, I wouldn't let them check the air in my tires, let alone change my oil. There have been cars that have gone out on test drives without oil... when the tech returns, they fill the car up, but in a few weeks when the poor guy is having engine problems, they aren't going to say anything, not that anyone would, but most dealership techs are nothing but parts changers. Just giving my 02 cents. Be careful out there. It seems like these dealerships know you guys have money and they are gouging you...

If you had been reading this forum for a few weeks then you would know the rule......Introduction and PICS!!!!!!!! Bob.....is that you???

Well i don't have time to be a part time tech , and thats what warranty is for. And don't assume people here don't know, I have many many cars I have wrenched on including my 9 second 1/4 car.With that being said I will agree with you about most techs not knowing the cars they service.We are smarted then what you are implying.and if I am reading your post wrong I am sorry, it just seems your coming off the wrong way...

Dell so right!

no, but i just posted a new topic, which should prove interesting to you.. i'd like to see your response to it :>

maybe Bob's car does not like the blinders

I apologize kilrgt if I offended you, that was not my intention. Please don't take my post the wrong way. I did not mean to imply that everyone or anyone on the forum is mechanically challenged. I just noticed that the dealerships seem to be the first choice when problems arise... which is great when you have a warranty, but if you don't, I would think many people would be better off with independent shops... maybe someone or someplace recommended by a fellow enthusiast. I'd be very interested to see one of these "blown" engines taken apart and inspected...

I agree with airbarrel's view. However, most of 996 and 997 owners usually sell when warranty expires. Therefore, most don't wrench since maint cost of $300-600 every year is very reasonable for most of us. Sure, you can still do a 15k service for $75 in parts yourself. However, newer car owners typically want to have the dealer inspect and service the car since they can often find warranty repairs too (most of time actually not required). Typically, owners tend to DYI or take it to an indept shop after warranty expires.

OK as I said I am sorry if I read your post the wrong way, and at the same time I did agree with you. For some the dealer is the best option, as for others like you and I DO NOT trust the techs at the dealers. We good?

I use the stealer for warranty items only. I have a very good independent that I use for everything else. I think it is wise to spend time to get to know who is touching the car.

There have been few M96 blown motors. There some issues with the early Boxster motors, but they were fixed. Where do people get this stuff? The RMS and intermediate shaft seal leaks don't result in a blown engine unless the owner is a bone head and lets the engine run dry of motor oil. Porsche now has a fourth generation RMS that seems to be much better than the previous editions. The issue will not go away as some 997 owners now have had RMS leaks. This has been extensively covered on this and just about every Porsche BBS. It's a design flaw in the M96 family of engines. That said, the M96 is very reliable. It has been raced in Grand Am (3.4 and 3.6L) without any engine failures that I know of. It is doing well in PCA Club Racing. It does not deserve the "it's not a dry sump motor therefore it must be fragile" lunacy that is repeated over and over again by the misinformed or by owners of the "true Porsche dry sump powered cars". Autofarm, a very well respected Porsche shop in the UK, has indeed taken apart an early M96 motor than had been purposefully mistreated and found the internals to be pristine. They contaminated the fuel to result in a cracked cylinder. Autofarm was trying to develop a cylinder sleeve to fix cracked cylinders. This was a high milage motor and surprisingly the internals looked great. The varioram had some wear. There are very few shops opening up the M96 motor because until recently Porsche has not allowed even the dealerships to do this. Any bad M96's were simply sent back to Porsche. The air cooled community has decried Porsche for taking the ritual of dropping an engine to fix something away and this has been one of the reasons for the bad rap on the M96. It's actually a simple good business decision as Porsche spends a lot of money to train a fully certified Porsche mechanic and they have seen many of them go off to start their own shops. It is much more economical to have Porsche technicians at the dealerships and have a strong core of mechanics in Germany do the work. So there you have my assessment. The M96 is a great motor. It has great torque and hp and reliability. It's proven itself in racing where it has won it class in Grand Am. It does not blow up. Ask some of the S54 BMW owners about engines going boom! Porsche sought to build a motor for all countries regardless of their regulations and yet maintain reliability and performance. They have been successful. The RMS issue is relatively minor when you compare it to the previous Porsche motors that had some very expensive issues that needed attention. So do your reading and if you still like the 996 go out and by one. You won't be disappointed. Cheers.

kilrgt... were absolutely good...

I used the dealer while the car was under Warranty. Since then I do everything myself. I don't trust any of the knuckle draggers. I have worked on cars for over 50 years. I have all the manuals and an engineering degree. If necessary I have been known to redesign parts. There is nothing I will not tackle. If it requires a machine shop I will be there to supervise. Maybe I'm not typical but I thought you should know we are all not mechanically challenged.

agree... I dropped off my car last week at the dealer (under warranty) to have some metal vibrating noice looked at, it's from the engine when in 1st and 2nd gear around 2800-3000 rpm, next day they said it's fixed, drove the car home and the exact same noise is loud and clear... brought the car back to the dealer again the next day, met the mechanic, he told me not to drop off the car and maybe the noise would go away later ????

I have had pretty good experiences with dealer service with Porsche, and with Saturn too in the past, but not with any others. On the other hand, every independant shop I've taken my 996 to has done something wrong...so... I am still under warranty, and while Porsche continues to give me good service, I will give them my business. When I finally have a place where I can do some work on my car myself, I will most definitely do that, but that isn't the case right now. Before I take my car to the dealer, I call about four or five dealerships to compare prices. It's amazing how different pricing can be for the same service.

Eric i agree with you 1000%, the m96 is an excellent, bulletproof racing engine! I only go to the dealer for scheduled maintenance and warranty issues, need to have a good rap with these guys in case you have a track mishap, etc. Gotta throw them a bone. Remember these are 100k cars in some cases, need to establish a relationship with the dealer.

Airbarrel-- From what I have been told, Porsche doesn't have any rebuild kits, cylinders, or many of the internal engine parts available to anyone, even their own dealer network. The Transmission--same story. So basically if anything internally fails on these cars, it's complete engine or nothing. I could be wrong but several techs and dealers that I have talked to have told me that this is Porsche's policy with the newer cars...

Me too - verbatim. I do not think this is an Indi' conspiracy - they are just telling us what they hear.