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YOUR RESEARCHToo stupid to own a Prius?
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Check posts--i'm responding
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Check my posts--I'm responding to what you said here:
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The Europeans made a mess of things with diesel engines for a few decades, but because of that then got very, very good at building strong, quiet, efficient and clean ones.
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The driver said as soon as the tank was re-fill he would re-investigate the problem on the same wide open stretch of highway
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Does Toyota recommend a different weight to prevent the accelerator from sticking?
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"Put the f'in thing in neutral!" He was afraid it would flip if he put it in neutral but he had the guts to call 911 while barreling down the freeway at 90mph, swerving and changing lanes to avoid hitting other cars.
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The Europeans made a mess of things with diesel engines for a few decades, but because of that then got very, very good at building strong, quiet, efficient and clean ones.
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"Put the f'in thing in neutral!" He was afraid it would flip if he put it in neutral but he had the guts to call 911 while barreling down the freeway at 90mph, swerving and changing lanes to avoid hitting other cars.
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It's not a huge step to have biofuel diesel engines running from recycled materials, but no, the government isn't interested in pushing those, despite them being the most practical and logical alternatives to gasoline engines.
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The first diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil, but the oil companies quickly got in there and tinkered to produce fossil fuel versions and these were the ones that gained traction.
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Sorry for being off topic, but thought you guys would like this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...tions_business
Some dude's Prius unintentionally sped up to 90 MPH... It took him 20 minutes AND a call to 911 to get it slowed down.
WTF? People can't just put it in neutral? Or turn off the engine?
saw on the news last night - he said all he wants is a new car... **** I wish we had that trouble...The entire free world is "investigating" GEEZ!!
BTW Prius can run with out a key as long as the key is somewhere like in your pocket.... so in order to shut the car off from 90mph you have to jump out.... some folks are just not that commited to safe driving I guess
Can a Prius transmission be put into NEUTRAL when you are moving?
DUH!
When I heard the interview last night on the news, someone asked him why he didn't put the car into NEUTRAL. His response was that he was afraid the car would flip over over something if he did that.
YES! He is definately too stupid to drive a Prius. My guess is his new car will be a Camry.
LMAO @ flip over.. I missed that
OMG what an idiot
Yea, I thunked if I stoppeded the motor the batttrie would just go KABLEWY, and shot da car all the ways ta outta space with me in it... I was scared - thank the lord the poleese was able to stop me...
I'm going to Disneyland
+1
Saw this in the news:
"Neibert told Sikes after the highway patrol caught up with him to shift to neutral but
the driver shook his head no
. Sikes told reporters he didn't go into neutral because he worried the car would flip."
If I was the CHP officer who was driving alongside him when he did that, I'd have just pulled out my weapon and shot him just for being such a dumbass.
What is strange is that the puny Prius engine could ever overpower the brakes.
And if the key must be in the car- throw it out the window.
Also notice that this guy is wearing a "Corvette" jacket. (driving a Prius?)
During the interview he seemed unsure and evasive.
Something smells rather fishy here.
Time to throw down the "BS� flag on this one.
Yep, even the CHP officer who unfortunately lost his life with the Lexus loaner, also in San Diego, didn't put it in neutral.
The first thing that came to mind also is... "Put the f'in thing in neutral!" He was afraid it would flip if he put it in neutral but he had the guts to call 911 while barreling down the freeway at 90mph, swerving and changing lanes to avoid hitting other cars.
WTF? Stupid is as stupid does.
CAN'T
PUSH
BUTTON
MUST
CALL
911 !
OH and reach down and play with the gas pedal going 90mph while on the phone
a Prius goes 90? I think he did some mods to it!!
This is how deal with Prius issues on the East Coast:
http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/ar...ash-399415.php
HARRISON, N.Y. (AP) — The driver of a Toyota Prius told police in suburban New York that the car accelerated on its own, then lurched down a driveway, across a road and into a stone wall.
Harrison police are investigating the cause, but Capt. Anthony Marraccini said the floor mat issue that figured in a huge Toyota recall did not appear to be a factor.
"Apparently this particular vehicle had been serviced previously by Toyota and the mats were secured," he said.
On Monday, California police stopped a runaway Prius going nearly 85 mph. The driver said the pedal jammed.
In New York, the 2005 Prius' air bags deployed when the car hit the wall on Tuesday, toppling boulders. The driver, a 56-year-old woman, escaped serious injury, Marraccini said.
"The impact with the wall was pretty substantial," he said, adding that some stones from the wall were found 10 feet away.
"The driver reported to us that the car accelerated while she was exiting her driveway and she lost control of the car," he said. He said she was lucky not to collide with traffic as the car crossed Purchase Street.
Police kept the vehicle for investigation. Toyota said it's not yet known whether the company will also investigate.
Toyota has recalled more than 8 million vehicles worldwide. In some cases, floor mats can cause the accelerator to stick.
Yeah, if there was ever a situation of RTFM (beforehand), this would be it.
And what's the deal with his braking attempts? Did he not initially try STANDING on the brakes before the CHP caught up to him?
Or maybe it's because he ordered the car with the "Marshmallow Brake Pad" upgrade option.
Here's a theory:
He was speeding to begin with. When he saw CHP on his ***, he called 911 as if his gas pedal was stuck, playing THAT card. The rest is history.
Too funny.
Next time I get pulled over, I'm going to use that excuse.... "Sir, I pulled you over for doing 120 in a 65."
"I know you did officer - I didn't want to go that fast, this stupid 911 just accelerated, practically by itself, to that speed. I didn't know what to do, so I just carefully held the wheel with both hands and tried to avoid the slower cars. Thank goodness you came along to save me!"
Think the guy called 911 at 90 MPH with his "hands free" phone?
The story was suspicious from the start.
How far did he travel at that speed during that amount of time? Can you really fly down the freeway, even out east of San Diego, for all that distance, at that speed, in a car with poor handling? No traffic? No trucks passing each other? For 40 or 50 miles? Please.
This is clearly a scam.
Reporters say the driver was "all smiles" as the tow truck loaded the car onto the flatbed. The driver said as soon as the tank was re-fill he would re-investigate the problem on the same wide open stretch of highway
I don't drive cars with automatic transmissions, so forgive me if this question sounds silly:
Can an automatic transmission actually be shifted into neutral while the car is travelling at 94 MPH? Please don't jump to a conclusion and answer "yes" unless you really know. Don't make assumptions.
I'm thinking that MAYBE there could be an interlock that prevents an "accidental" shift into neutral in a car with automatic transmission while the car is being driven at high speed. Such an accidental shift, without a concurrent lifting of the drver's foot from the gas pedal, would suddenly increase RPMs to the point of harming the engine; hence, the interlock.
Does anyone here know for sure?
We all laugh at this but it happened to me....in a way more powerful car......my 500hp 911!
I drove straight from work to the drag strip which is about 30 minutes away because I put in a new clutch and wanted to see how it would do. I teched the car and went straight into the staging lanes.
I quickly got to run and did. When I got to the traps (the end where the light/sensors are at) I let off......but the car kept pulling like a freight train.
BTW, you have to know my car has a HUGE turbo on it built for top speeds, it wasn't close to being done with 4th gear.
Anyways, when I let of and the car kept pulling, I panicked and smashed the clutch in and the brakes. My car doenst have ABS anymore (different calipers and rotors)......the car violently took a different direction as all 4 tires locked up!
I was clocked at 118MPH.
Right after I **** myself, I reached for the keys on the right side of the steering column. Well guess what? I'm driving a Porsche!
I found the key on the left side, turned off the motor, and coasted off the track.
What I discovered is the throttle pedal has a bellcrank behind it that had is worn out and would snag the sheetmetal on the floor board!
I bent the **** out of the sheetmetal so it would never happen again.
Don't laugh, it was freakin' scary!!!
No. The Prius guy had his problem on the same stretch as a different asian guy who was in a Lexus RX loaner that ended up rolling and bursting into flames. If only he had known a simple flick of your wrist into neutral would have saved his family's life.
The media accords him great credibility...they love anyone who can "testify" to a death-defying problem with a Toyota. Everything he said seemed to be accepted unconditionally and without question.
Sorry to hijack the thread but...
http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-p...-42-mph-3.html
The guy is a f#$^#in' idiot.. and is making this whole runaway Prius thing credibility it doesn't deserve. People just can't drive their own cars.. or at the very least, don't read the owners manual.
Same highway. Highway 8.
To read the owners manual when you first buy a car is a given for those with common sense; seems like this guy doesn't have any.
Why is this issue only happening in America? These cars are sold all over the world - yet I haven't seen any reports that other countries have their knickers in a twist over this?
Generally, Americans are a rather provincial/parochial people, not tuned in to the rest of the world. We don't listen to the BBC, but instead listen to our home-based news organizations, which are local/national in their orientation, rather than international.
So....any problems that car manufacturers may be having in other parts of the world are not likely to come up on our radar screens.
^^^ Note the percentage of lawyers in the US vs. the rest of the world.
Now where can I find a lawyer to represent me in my 911 when I have "acceleration problems"?
"In Southern California, James Sikes, 61, called 911 Monday after he tried to loosen his accelerator with his hand."
I know, I know...several people have analyzed his behavior, which seems suspect in some ways. And...I keep reading the above quote from Mr. Sikes with complete disbelief. I wouldn't bend down to reach the accelerator with my hand while the car was moving at ANY speed. I don't think he did it.
You may be correct about the motivation of Mr. Sikes and others; however, it appears that exaggeration and maybe even a degree of hysteria are at work here, too.
You guys are too funny.
He is a dufus, but did you consider that maybe it's the road that's defective. I think that they should petition to rip up the road and install one that doesn't cause sudden uncontrolled acceleration.
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Actually, Toyota eliminated using friction brakes of any kind on the Prius, instead loading the generators to varying degrees to slow the car. And it starts by command which eliminates the direct ignition switch other cars have, as well as a conventional transmission. So the computer froze, sending full power from the generators and engine to the wheels. The emergency brake cable broke, too. It is a little known fact that a Prius can lay waste to a 2010 997 Turbo at the strip.
Californian
This comment does not reflect the view point of Rennlist and or its members. This comment especially does not reflect the view of people that think a high majority of californians are full of it.
Hes a member of the corvette club too.....and yes auto trans can be put into nuetral at any speed.
Another wild ride on the "LEFT COAST".......with the "LEFT" media in tow...
on an unrelated topic (like thats a surprise from me)
yesterday I had to take the truck for a few errands and on the way home we were along side a nice Mercedes - but then something caught my eye and we started driving at the same spped to watch the dash of this car... (sure its old at this point but I had never seen it)
It had what I would best call improved vision screen with a large forward vies right in the middle of the steering wheel. We could see it plain as day and the enhanced view was specatular! I drove along side of it for several miles in poor lighting, almost dark, slightly rainy conditions and the screen showed a clear view of the road ahead...
really cool!! maybe a little distracting because of location, I suggested to the kids that if it had a heads up display and overlayed it to the real view, then you would have something really hot... all in all though it looked like a great system and a great way to see the road when conditions are poor (or eyes are old)
Yah some strange news there. Worse yet the news panders to the chases. I think they are trying to sell that criminal acts don't go unpunished in california. That's a joke,
I'm sure the main sell is a class acton suite out of california where the lawyers making the bucks are going to be using clowns like this guy as their star. Worse yet the dealer who played the turn him away saying no fix for his car. Real funny charicters down there.
I remember when a guy in a new E90 330i was outrunning the police in houston for several hours. The chase was all over the news.
The local Houston BMW dealer then got calls within the hour to setup 15 test drives. lol
So a chase scene is positive unintentional marketing I guess.
Some background information on the Prius driver. Bankrupt in 2008. $700,000 in debt. 5 months behind on his Prius payments. Starting to smell like Balloon Boy in here...
http://jalopnik.com/5491101/
man this just gets better and better. I wonder what will ultimately happen to toyota's reputation after all this. Guess Honda will be happy with all the new customers they are getting.
Glad to see somebody is doing something with their graphics programs. Had me laughing pretty good too.
Same here. Really good relief from the being waterboarded daily by the networks and friends to believe their crap.
Oh man aint it a shame. The way he managed his car driving kind of shows in his business ethics and free time adventures.
This was too confusing. I think I'd kick back and enjoy the ride.
You know worse yet I wonder if joe blow driving was out of his niche being in an area where the hwys are clear. I guess now a lot of people are figuring he staged the affair. Seems last time I was in california, finding a stretch of road not jammed was kind of tough. How he ever found one I don't know.
Is there a remote control hack other drivers can use to get those slow boats out of the way? Maybe this exposure is more to get people to think these cars are fast. Kind of funny.
When I had a Prius rental I realized it was a PITA to maintain speed. Like I would be maintaining speed, then suddenly the engine kicks in and bam I accelerate 5mph without moving my foot. So then you backoff and car decelerates 10mph. It was annoying as hell. Not to mention its slow than molasses in January.
That said, getting 50mpg was interesting because I'm used to getting only 16.
I like cutting off Prius drivers here. They take up the fast lane with a smug face while they save the environment. I make sure that they see my dual pipes as I create more CO2 than their Prius saves trees.
actually there is a study somewhere that shows them making of the Prius actually damages the enviornment more than the car will save over its life span
gee... no kidding!
and 50 mpg.... yea, OK in 1985 I drove a Dodge Colt that got 45mpg in the city and 55 hwy....25 years ago people!! this is nothing hard to do, its just the focus is all wrong....
where is my soap box
No kidding. I think about the BS everyone puts out too because in 74 the dodge colt marketed in australia was giving me the same mileage and I wasn't much into light footing it. The little hemi engine was great. And then we get the big sale of buy the new and improved green garbage.
Manufacturers could put the old style engines in and be better for the enviroment. It's the old petroleum industry taking its cut of the american market pie like usual. Funny how what ever the market will bear doesn't sound like take every last penny the public has if possible.
The car concerned in this thread I have seen as a traffic hazard way too many times with the way they move so slow. Not mentioning how onramps get plugged by the drivers or the hwy traffic getting a thrill when the nut pull out going too slow.
Well, yes and no. What you said is part of it, but you have to remember that cars have gotten heavier because of all the junk they're put in them, plus they now tune them for performance rather than economy.
I also find it sad that my wife's '95 Civic gets better gas mileage than a modern Civic and most other cars on the road... when they were running Cash for Clunckers my 911 was classified as a clunker, but her Civic was not.
Yup, I saw that study. Pretty sad. That helped convince me that people that buy those pieces of junk are more about making a statement than actually making a difference to the environment. Misguided, misinformed, and pretentious.
Yep electric cars have become a fashion statement. Just look at hollywood.
I just hoped we are not all forced into getting hyrids or electric cars in the future. At least bring diesels over if I can't have a gasoline engine.
I wrote about it awhile back. The data is very straightforward, and for that reason incredibly compelling. It's based on lifetime fuel cost, including the cost of manufacture and disposal. Using that math, the first Prius consumed twice as much of the world's resources as a Hummer H2, believe it or not. They use less fuel once they're in the driveway, but they rape the planet to get there.
The principle determinant in that math is actually service life (after that, in the case of the Prius, it's the brutal fuel cost of mining and shipping nickel etc. for the batteries). So, consider your Porsche: 70% of the Porsches ever built are still in service, so that's a few hundred thousand cars that didn't need to get built to replace them. They're also built in the most strict manufacturing economy in the world for environmental laws, so there's no solvent based paint used, and in the home market more than 80% of the car has to be recylable, and marked and assembled with reclamation in mind at the end of its service life.
If society could look at the issue with any common sense, a guy who drives an immaculately maintained ten-year-old Porsche is actually about as green as it gets, assuming responsible use. I'm not trying to be funny, either. We won't save the planet by buying more stuff. We'll do it by figuring out how not to.
Agree 100%!!
And, if you really try, these 10 year old cars can yield high MPG, too.
I drove like a granny on a 160 mile trip - just to see how high I could get (Tim, pardon the green sundial...).
+1
Most people don't get it when I say that I'm happy to keep my 10 year old Porsche rather than trade it in for a newer model that really won't give me much more in terms of features and performance.
The data is far from being straightforward and any number of studies have debunked the "Prius vs. Hummer" lifecycle myth.
Sure, not making new things is the "greenest" way, but it's not very realistic for a planet full of people that desire new things.
Personally, I've never understood why so many people seem to think the only reason anyone buys a Prius is to project a green image. It completely ignores the usefulness and utility provided by a $20k car that's got the space of a Camry inside and gets 50 mpg.
I have seen articles arguing with it, but not debunking it. Most disagreement surrounds the validity of including manufacturing related fuel use, not the math itself. I'm extremely familiar with the material because I'm citing it in my next book.
The business of 'desiring new things' is how I've made my living over the last 30 years. I'm well aware of the dynamic. My personal belief is that our best hope is to figure out how to make that habit sustainable, since stopping isn't realistic and neither is continuing without making any changes. Your point is kind of an unproductive discussion-killer. My own belief is that if everybody bought the best they could afford and just did it less often, and then took care of it so that it lasted, the world would be better off and capitalism would still prosper. Exhibit A is Germany, which until 2009 was the biggest manufacturing economy in the world until China finally overtook it. The capitalist system can very easily and profitably support a more discriminating style of consumerism, and has done so in the past.
I don't dispute the charms of the Prius, but I'm very confident that the same benefits can be achieved in ways that don't involve the the sacrifices that car asks us to make.
.... or maybe those Prius owners installed an aftermarket CAI, which caused too much air to be forced into the engine, which forced the throttle to run wide open!
I wonder if they even make CAI's for priuses... lol
But the nice Euro companies are bringing some good diesels to the market. The BMW 335d is a beast. 425 ft-lb tq!!
Yeah, but the sad thing is that these cars have been available for 20 years and the US market wasn't available.
It always amazed me that we were messing around with ethanol and hybrids when a diesel could outperform all of them.
335d: 0-60 in 5.2-5.5 and gets 45mpg on the highway. Economical and still relatively powerful enough.
The reason they didn't bring them to the market is because not enough people would buy them. When people think of diesel they think of old, loud, smelly cars. American's just don't like that. Not to mention it's a PITA around me to find a gas station that carries diesel. Last thing people want is to be running low on gas and then not be able to find a gas station that carries diesel.
I personally wouldn't buy a diesel currently either. But in the future, if I can't buy a regular powerful gas powered car, I'd much prefer diesel over electric/hybrid cars.
I know the reasons that americans won't buy diesel cars and I don't think that's a good excuse - it just shows ignorance.
It makes no sense that people should not buy a modern diesel based on the memory of engines from the 70's - Tell me one other product where you would do the same? Would you do the same for a computer?
It also makes no sense to invest in ethanol and hybrids which are less efficient when existing technology is available.
I agree that diesel is not commonly available in gas stations - that's not an excuse either when you consider that they're prepared to invest in ethanol tanks, or new electrical infrastructure to power electric cars - it all goes to show the lobbyists trump common sense when it's easy to put diesel into existing tanks at every gas station in the country and it would cost next to nothing.
Modern diesel engines are very very good and perform better than a hybrid. It's only lack of education that prevents adoption. Sadly the ones with vested interest in touting their new alternatives would prefer that the american public doesn't learn that diesels are superior, greener and cheaper than the alternatives that are being shoved down their throats.
On the way back from dropping the wheels off to FLY996 I saw a prius witha Porsche turbo logo on the rear hatch.....what are these people thinking?? He did have two hands on the wheel and had a nervous look to him....
OK, that's great, so where are these cars at? When better solutions than the Prius are available, that's when it will make sense to give the Prius owners a hard time about their choice.
Well, the point is that diesels have been and continue to be a better alternative to hybrids.
Diesels proliferated in Europe because they are more efficient and many governments gave tax breaks diesel fuel to encourage people to buy cars with diesel engines. All it would take is a similar tax break here and the fuel and the cars would become more common.
The sad truth is that diesel fuel in Europe is still cleaner than diesel fuel in the US - that really doesn't help adoption of the technology.
I'm not going to do your homework for you, because the list of alternatives is far too long.
For a start, the benefits of a hybrid are principally in urban driving. They don't participate much on the highway, and are dead weight to lug around. So let's start by telling every highway driving Prius owner that he would save money and the planet by choosing a high mileage gasoline or diesel (even better) powered conventional car.
Now, let's look at those urban drivers. Can you say with certainty that the net cost of operating a Prius is less than, say, a Yaris, even in urban driving? No, because it isn't. The gas savings are real but marginal in the scheme of things, as are tailpipe emissions in real world drivng. Meanwhile, depreciation and service life for the Prius is far worse than you'd get by putting a decent effort into taking care of that Yaris. All for a $10,000 delta in price. Cost wise, the benefit is extremely dubious.
Now, let's consider the environmental benefit. Me, I'm sticking to my guns that the total impact of the Prius, while less during its service life, is greater over all. Come on up to Sudbury if you'd like to see how your battery pack begins its life. Unfortunately, I can't really tell you where that battery pack goes at the
end
of its life, but I wouldn't want to live nearby.
Which leaves us with oil. The Prius' main benefit is that it makes a political statement about the nation's dependency on foreign oil. Okay, fair enough. Except that I think it's a better act of citizenship to actually use less oil than it is to strut around preaching about it. If you want to be a good citizen, use oil judiciously and take care of your car. Hybrids aren't some convenient pill to take to ease our consciences. And plug-ins will be even worse, what with something like nearly 2/3 of greenhouse gases produced in North America already being tied to hydro electric power generation, IIRC.
For someone who drives almost exclusively in the city, a hybrid can be a good call if the math works out. But that's not all of us, or even most of us. For a lot of real world use, the Prius owner has many, many superior options if the health of the planet and/or low cost personal transportation is really his concern.
I agree about diesels. And it's all the more confusing when you realize that diesel engines are natural torque monsters, which Americans love. The Europeans made a mess of things with diesel engines for a few decades, but because of that then got very, very good at building strong, quiet, efficient and clean ones. Drive a BlueTec sometime. Just amazing.
But the oil companies don't seem to want any part of it, at least around here. My country place is in an agricultural area, so every station carries diesel. And the price is as high or higher than for regular gasoline. I know the farmers get tax breaks on their fuel costs, but still... it seems like opportunistic gouging. I'm afraid I can't see much common sense in either energy policy or marketing practice on this issue...
+1
I shudder when I think of how ethanol and electric vehicles are being pushed - idiocy at it's best and only a manifestation of a lobbyist driven government where money and lobbying drive public policy rather than science and common sense.
EVs are NOT an alternative and are only pushing the pollution to a different place in the energy life cycle. It amazes me that this hasn't occurred to the general public yet.
Yup - diesels were the original ecofriendly engine and they have remarkable performance. I love driving European diesels during my visits - talk about a car that sips fuel, but performs like crazy.
The first diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil, but the oil companies quickly got in there and tinkered to produce fossil fuel versions and these were the ones that gained traction. It's not a huge step to have biofuel diesel engines running from recycled materials, but no, the government isn't interested in pushing those, despite them being the most practical and logical alternatives to gasoline engines.
As for fuel supply and cost - I've always wondered about that also. Here in the Philly area diesel supply is hit and miss. Any place that has decent truck traffic nearby will usually have one diesel pump, but most gas stations do not carry the fuel. I continue to be amazed by that.
As for cost - I have no explanation as to why diesel is priced higher, other than as a method of gaining more tax revenue from commerce. Even in Europe where diesel got tax breaks for along time and the fuel used to be cheaper than gas, the subsidies have now been removed and diesel costs more than gas. The way that it was justified to me was that the subsidies were to encourage adoption, then once the use of diesel was widespread they removed the subsidies to encourage less fuel use. Go figure.
I think diesels are great, but the models available in the US don't pencil out, and I'm not in favor of tax breaks for anyone choosing to buy a specific car.
You don't have to do any homework Bruce--just tell me what model of new car makes more economical sense than a Prius that's available right now.
The Prius and the Yaris are not comparable cars. The Yaris is 100% subcompact econobox, while the Prius is the size of a Camry inside and offers better amenities. The Prius is more realistically compared to the base Camry models.
Wow, really? Its MAIN benefit is making a political statement? That's exactly my point--I'd say its main benefit is the fact that it gets 50 mpg while costing less than any diesels available in the US and getting more MPGs out of a fuel that costs less.
OK, it should be pretty easy to name some comparable cars that haul as much as a Prius for less money, so what are they?
The Prius is everyone's favorite car to hate and the reasons are just silly. I agree that diesels are great and even used one as a daily driver for the last few years, but where are all of these reasonably priced diesels at?
No, it wasn't a case of tax breaks on cars, but more a case of less tax on diesel than on gas. That was enough to encourage diesel use. Plus, it had the added advantage of helping commercial users of diesel - a win-win.
As for car availability in the US - you would be safe choosing any of the german diesels, as they will all perform well (edit: despite being de-tuned for fuel economy in the US market).
Uh, yeah. I'll get right on that.
I find this schoolyard "show me the proof" game tiresome. I think that burden is on you, now. I've actually made my case. You, on the other hand, appear to have turned this suddenly into a debate about load capacity (!?)
Instead, let's do this: Here is the original data source that sparked the 2008 New York Times article on the debate. Scroll down, and you'll see documents including the lifetime fuel cost rankings and some articles defending the methodology (the Hidden Cost of Driving a Prius piece is interesting, and does propose a specific alternative from Toyota's product line). Read this material, and then you can make an informed decision about whether you find their work valid.
http://www.cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/
And if your passion for the Prius remains undimmed, maybe we can take it to Off Topic. I'd rather be discussing my sweet new sport seats and what kind of oil I should use on them.
associated press this morning:
The memo said technicians with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Toyota could not duplicate the sudden, unintended acceleration that James Sikes said he experienced March 8 when he reached 94 mph on a California freeway. Investigators tried during a two-hour test drive Thursday.
The memo was based on a congressional staffer's observations of a two-day inspection last week at a dealership in suburban San Diego. A Toyota official who was at the inspection explained that an electric motor would "completely seize" if a system to shut off the gas when the brake is pressed fails, and there was no evidence to support that happened, according to the memo.
"In this case, knowing that we are able to push the car around the shop, it does not appear to be feasibly possible, both electronically and mechanically that his gas pedal was stuck to the floor and he was slamming on the brake at the same time," according to the report for the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.
Kurt Bardella, a spokesman for the committee's top Republican, Darrell Issa of California, said Sunday that the findings "certainly raise new questions surrounding the veracity of the sequence of events" reported by Sikes.
"We're not saying Mr. Sikes is wrong or that he lied, we're saying that questions have arisen in the investigation," Bardella said.
Also released: the brake and accellerator pedal were pressed alternately over 250 times during the event. The brake was pushed lightly enough not to disengage the motor. This according to the onboard computer.
Looks like someone has some 'splaining to do.
Pretty funny!
Although, I am confused as to how he managed to wear down his pads and rotors if he was only applying the brakes lightly and intermittently.
Yes there are a lot of people full of it. In the motorcycle world the 2005 and 2006 model of the GSX-R1000 had a big gathering of big abusers and looser acusing Suzuki of a faulty frame. Of course the fools had crashed their bikes at high speeds or wheelied the bike to death till the frame cracked. Some even tried reporting the bike fell apart acting like they never slammed the bike back to the ground.
All these people are proving is that they shouldn't be allowed on the road due to not knowing how to operate machinery on the road. But get rid of the factor on the road and tax fees for vehicle registrations would drop by 3/4.
The OP of this thread reported that the length of the incident was 20 minutes. If that's true, then in that 1,200 seconds, Sikes was alternating an accelerator/brake "back and forth" every 4.8 seconds. This, too, is hard to believe.
On the other hand, I'd like to see Sikes take a lie detector test.
You made the claim that many Prius owners would be better served by driving a Yaris or one of many better alternatives to the Prius. I pointed out that the Yaris isn't a comparable vehicle and asked you to name any other comparable new vehicle that was more economical than the Prius.
Sorry, but that has nothing to do with your claims. Check my posts--I'm responding to what you said here:
I don't care about lifecycles and stats from "design to junkyard". I've only asked which vehicles you're talking about that offer the same benefits of the Prius without the sacrifices it apparently asks us to make.
I don't like the Prius and would not buy one, but I also won't tell anyone else that they shouldn't either. I take issue with the claim that there are better choices out there for economical driving, and all anyone has given me are "diesels", the few models of which that are available to the US are more expensive to buy and more expensive at the pump.
As for the off topic lecture, spare me. We were already eight pages into a Prius thread in the 996 forum; don't act like it was somehow my actions that got us here.
Once again, you conveniently change the subject. Or perhaps you should read more slowly.
My principal point has been that there are many alternatives that impact the
planet
less in terms of fuel use, not that impact the owner less. Your entire argument appears to be based on a misunderstanding of what I've been saying, and your dismissal of data because you don't like it shows real intellectual immaturity.
Your hostility about this completely mystifies me. Makes me nostalgic for Ben.
Look at what the improved toaster with wheels has done to the porsche humanity. It's discusting.
Funny how instead of improving mechanical performance for better economy it's more garbage electronics.
