Used 996 Prices

There seems to be a lot more people than usual showing up asking questions about this car or that car, and whether or not the seller's asking price is fair. More often than not, the answers lean towards "too high; the market sucks". Every once in a while someone will weigh in with facts (actual market data, or numbers from reputable sources/registries), but they are in the minority. Now I don't know what's really going on here, but I suspect that Rennlist is little too parochial and insulated to have a very objective view. After all, Rennlist does not equate to everything there is to know about the Porsche market; not even close (go ahead, do the math on 996's sold in the US vs. Rennlist membership numbers). I'm just speculating and could be wrong, but my personal experience runs counter to the opinions often expressed here re: the market... I listed my 2002 C4 cab for sale in the Rennlist classifieds in May for 35K. To this day, I've received not a single lead. Nothing. Nada. During that time, I've seen lesser optioned cars with higher mileage and nowhere near the condition of mine going for thousands of dollars less get bashed by this forum as being overpriced. And during that time, I've watched similar cars come and go on autotrader at prices much closer to mine. I hadn't been in a hurry to sell mine, but was intrigued by the figures I was noticing outside of Rennlist. So last Wednesday, I listed mine on autotrader. Same car. Same mileage. Same condition, etc. Same wording in my ad. And same asking price. Different audience. 20 phone calls, 10 emails, 3 offers and 5 days later... it's sold. For my original asking price. And I didn't sell it to an uneducated buyer, etiher (sold it to a owner of an older Porsche). Had two other offers lined up at $500 increments less if that one had fallen through. Yes, there are all kind of details that made those other cars much less attractive, or maybe mine was just easier to sell to a local market willing to look at in person vs. spend maybe 20 seconds passing judgement on a link from Rennlist in order to weigh in on a post. But still, I'm just saying.... It doesn't explain the gap between this board's common wisdom and my specific experience. Hope this helps both buyers and sellers out there. Maybe my case was unique. Maybe not. Do your homework. The wisdom of the crowd may not work in all situations.

Congrats on the sale. I've always believed that it's the enthusiasts themselves that bring down the prices of their own toys, quite inexplicably.

hard to sell here cuz we already have cars WTG on the sale

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Well you only need 1 buyer obviously, but most people listing cars on autotrader are getting 20 calls from brokers saying they would "help sell the car."

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I had 3 offers from individuals, not brokers.

A well-taken care of 99 with LSD and m030 as well as sport seats recently went on autotrader with 69k miles for 18k. I would have bought it (he was asking 19.5k) for that price but someone got to it first. But then you have people asking twice that much for a similar car with a few less miles.... I've also seen a 32k mile car asking 25k. A lot of the overpriced cars come from people trying to get the $10k in mods they put into the car back out in the selling price...to me at least mods don't add a single penny to the car's worth. It's usually the opposite.

Congrats on the sale. As for your observations, I think you have to consider that the opinion(s) on Rennlist only represent one data source. People post on this site asking for the opinions of the members, and that's what they get. I don't think anyone on Rennlist claims to be the absolute authority on pricing, they only share the experiences and knowledge that they have. The market also changes rapidly, so today's opinion may not reflect tomorrow's pricing accurately. Buying or selling a used Porsche isn't something to be taken lightly. I think it's always a good idea to check multiple sources for market and pricing information. I wouldn't expect the people on Rennlist to produce the facts that you mention above - that should be the responsibility of the buyer and/or seller. The people on Rennlist are just giving their opinions, as requested.

I still contend it's a soft market. Porsche made an awful lot of 996's, so they're not collectible. And the 997 market is falling hard as well, which makes our cars even less valuable. If you got $35K for an '02 cab, you did absolutely great. I got a solid buyer in less than a week for my car. Did I get what I thought it was worth or what I might have gotten if I held out? No. But, when I decided to sell it, I negotiated the price at a couple of thousand below what I wanted to get. In the long run, no big deal. Plus, it sold very quickly. And yes, I got a ton of calls from brokers wanting to sell my car.

As I said, mine is just one case, and I don't imagine myself as a qualified appraiser (been on Rennlist for 6 years, but have never answered a post re: the fairness of a given car's asking price with "too high" or "too low"). Just saying... I'm glad that I didn't let the wisdom of this forum influence me to reduce my asking price in moving from RL classifieds to autotrader. By paying attention to the other sources instead, I figure I avoided settling for thousands of dollars less (by some accounts, up to 10 grand). Just a data point, that's all. And all I'm saying re: the factors involved is that a casual look by a RL member at an online ad in order to offer an opinion in this forum is going to be just that (a hastily offered opinion). Contrast that to an actual buyer looking at the car in person, asking tons of questions, reviewing repair history, making comparisons to dozens of other like cars, and making a decision to spend thousands of dollars of their hard-earned money. Different skin in the game and vetted against the larger market. (not everyone is comparing used 996's against other 996's alone). IMHO, passion for the make does not necessarily equate to knowledge of the market. I could be wrong, but for buyers and sellers out there, something to consider.... Good luck to all who are active in the market....

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Totally agree with you. In doing searches in Autotrader, there are not that many 996s in the teens like most on here are calling the "market" value. It is unfortunate for sellers and in the future I would not list my car here for sale as I really fo not want to deal with all of the negativity and price experts here.

I think it depends on the car. If you're trying to find a buyer who appreciates perfect maintenance (and will pay for a properly kept up car), forums are a great place to sell. Also, for a low mileage car, what better place to find the sort of obsessives who value that? But if you have a car with issues that would be revealed in a PPI, but shows well and has good paint, you'll get a much better price among the ignorant masses.

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That would have been my expectation as well. But what actually happened was mostly just the opposite, which is why I made my original post. Mine was an '02 w only 33K miles. No accidents, one owner, always garaged, had EVERY maintenance and repair receipt for the 7 year period, all from the same Porsche dealership. Had all of the basic mods that most people here list as their priority mods once they buy a 996, plus others that you would especially expect to be appreciated here on RL, yet not a single lead. Mine did show well and had outstanding paint, but all three offers that came through autotrader were from people who already owned a Porsche. Buyer was not one from the ignorant masses. Knew all the right questions to ask; spoke personally to my mechanic to verify some of my answers. Was upgrading from an older 911. Drove the car aggressively in the test drive and loved it. Educated and savvy buyer with cash made an over night decision to keep it out of the hands of the ignorant masses. Sure, there are lots of ways to explain away this one case to justify a belief that this forum knows better. I'll concede that I could have just gotten unlucky for 4 months on RL, and lucky in one week on autotrader. I can also appreciate that it's easier for one person to concede such a possibility than it is for the entire forum to concede that maybe, just maybe, our obsessiveness makes us the ignorant masses. No agenda here btw; I just think it's an fascinating paradox - for those who like to wrestle with such things.

I agree. I think posters here can be too negative on prices

I agree with Ed - most here are not looking to buy, just here to BS, and most people on the forums think they know everything about every market.

For a low mileage car, I was thinking more of Phil G. One factor where Autotrader, Cars.com (as evolutions of the local newspaper classified) really shine, is that most people prefer to buy a car nearby. When I was looking for mine, at one point I was ready to skip a few days of work, get on a plane, fly halfway across the country to see and drive a car, then have money wired and drive back. Then I realized that an extra $k or two locally more than makes up for that insanity. But that's what advertising is--trying to be visible in the right place when the right person is looking. I sold a car in 2004, advertised it everywhere, but the buyer saw it in the newspaper. A printed newspaper! There were still a few left in 2004. Then again, my boss had a car listed on Autotrader for months (better part of a year by now) at a very reasonable price, and few calls, no serious interest, like no one ever saw the ad. But the bottom line is that you managed to locate the seller's dream: a person who's ready to buy, wallet full of money, and able to make quick decisions.

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I believe the buyer of my car found it on Autotrader - not a local buyer, and had it shipped to Michigan. Interestingly, I've had several calls since the sale from locals asking if they can come to see the car. Getting a reasonable price quickly from a very bright and nice guy seemed like the right thing to do. I have no regrets. BTW, got my motorcycle permit today!!! Going to take a training course in October and if it feels right, will buy a bike in the Spring. The guy at DMV thanked me for being an organ donor (no sh-t, he really did!!!). My wife will be looking into a cemetery plot for me in the late Spring.

It is brutal in here...horrible place to sell a car. Worth a shot if an enthusiast is looking, but most everyone here is looking to mug someone in the transaction (I would be one of the muggers if I was looking to buy..not bashing). I was holding off on autotrader, but I am going to post mine up there-this post gave me some inspiration. I can only hope to have the same luck!

If you want to see some high priced 996s, look in the classified section of Panorama. They seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum.

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I've been looking for a 996 and the best deals seem to be in California. This is likely simply a matter of supply as California has in the past accounted for up to one-half of Porsche sales in the US. Unfortunately, I'm over 2000 miles away.

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Interesting. I only have a few anecdotes, but the few that I have would indicate that in contrast, ebay does not exhibit that same regional geography dynamic. Seems as though ebay autos are regularly purchased over long distances. Perhaps ebay is the place to be for reaching a national market and autotrader and cars.com is the place to be for reaching a local market. I wonder what that says about the relative degree of buying/selling savvy on one vs. the other. BTW, I did not intend to suggest that all valuation errors on RL might be towards the negative. Plenty of examples here of people happily celebrating a sale they were pleased with. A myopic perspective on the market could produce errors in either direction. If all of a sudden, 996's fell into favor with the masses and started selling like hot cakes, we might find RL biases working in the opposite direction! I can imagine the posts being very different... " he offered you what ? you've got to be kidding. you should raise your price just to let him know how insulting his offer was! " Yeah, in your dreams !

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They're high priced, but I'll bet they didn't get anywhere near some of those asking prices. For example, asking $60K for a 2003-2004 4S when you can get a virtually new 997S for near that figure, or slightly above. It's truly a buyers' market right now.

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Greetings all! Will post pics shortly of my new 99, but thought I'd add my experience since I looked for quite a long time before pulling the trigger. The best deals are definitely in CA, probably due to supply and the recession hitting CA the hardest. It was cheaper for me to buy in CA, fly out there, and ship the car back then buy one locally in Atlanta. That is how big the price difference was. I even had a broker friend looking at auctions for me regionally -- prices on auction cars nowhere near as inexpensive as private sellers and even dealers on the West Coast. The market is way down, and actually much more so even now than when I bought in early July. I took a look at Autotrader yesterday for kicks, and there are about double the amount of cars for sale than just 2 months ago. Not sure why, but the market is absolutely flooded right now with 996s. Having looked for many months, it seems that while prices are way down, most cars still sell at higher than the individual anecdotes indicate. The deal mentioned in this thread is an absolute steal IMO, and those crop up but I don't aren't the norm. They go fast. For what it's worth, I was also shopping M3 cabs, and those prices have been clobbered too, so it's not just the 911 market. Both still do better than used high end Mercedes are doing right now. Anyway, so glad I found this forum, and will have a pic up of the new ride shortly

[QUOTE=ivangene;6868606]hard to sell here cuz we already have cars what he said, already have 2..

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I bought my 996 from a private seller in the LA area and drove it back to Indiana, just over 2,000 miles. It was a blast!

I'm in Ohio the guy that bought my car is in AZ. E-bay, one day, second go around of auction.

I did not find Phil's car on autotrader. I was looking for a garage queen on Rennlist and the PCA web site. I did look at autotrader because the volume of cars made it more entertaining. Ultimately, I decided to outsource the Porsche shopping to someone more knowledgeable and experienced than myself and I believe he found it on Rennlist. Autotrader will bring more eyeballs, but the percentage of qualified responses is probably lower. I would guess that if two identical cars used as daily drivers from the same geographic location were listed at both autotrader and Rennlist, the seller would get better results from autotrader. However, if they were low milage queens, the same dollars would be achieved from both sites but it would be quicker on Rennlist. Rennlist might bring more because the buyer already knows that the car was more than just transportation to the seller and that the condition should reflect it. I think that excellent condition on Rennlist and PCA is not as liberally used at it might be on autotrader. That said, I’m a first time Porsche owner on crutches who can’t even drive the car so my opinion is just about worthless.

Congrats,great write up.

I didn't go to California to get my car because of price, but because there were more to choose from in that part of the country. By the time I found the color I wanted and the options I wanted, there simply weren't that many to choose from overall. The guy who sold me my car only advertised it on the PCA website and in Panorama. And yes, I did end up settling on a price lower than he had advertised there.

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Hugh, I wasn't aware that the car was initially found on RL. Good to hear. The responses I received from Autotrader were pretty much from brokers who wanted to "help" me sell my car. Knowing the shape the car's in, it didn't need a broker's assistance to sell. I'm sure that once you're off your crutches, and are able to actually drive your car, you'll fall in love with it. Hell, I just looked at it for over four years and I didn't even need crutches!! RL is an exellent source of high quality cars for knowledgable buyers. If a car's less than advertised, other owners will call out the seller on it, as they should.

Hugh, With Phil's car you found the QUEEN of Garage Queens! Phil, Did you include the "giant squirrel tail" and the optional "duck tail snow plow attachment" when you shipped the car off to Hugh?

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Tim, I know the pic - do you have it to post? I can't find my copy of it anywhere. It was priceless!!

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Now THAT sucks at any price! Like a old heinz ketchup commercial.... hope you turn that around soon.

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Same here - bought in Chicago, drove back to Vancouver

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Sorry about your ankle. Hope it heals well and you can get in that new toy before winter sets in... just dont leave her unattendended - several of us are in a nation wide search to find her and put some miles on her

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Not to worry - he has the part number for the Tequipment Battery Maintainer.

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That might be a longer drive than I had! How many miles was your trip?

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Phil, I have it on the PC at home, but I am in Greenville this week. I'll see if I can post both of those pics this weekend when I get back to Dallas.

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WHAT ? you didnt give it to him

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Nope. I'm saving it for my next toy. I see that it has a setting for motorcycles!!!

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Yea, it has that setting but in your case when you translate it from Greman to English it means....... DIVORCE!

OK Hugh here are the "options" that you should ask Phil to send to you if he didn't include them witht eh car. Squirrel tale - keeps the flies off of your car's **** Duck Tail snow plow - 4-wheel drive works perfectly for plowing your driveway.

Damn you, Tim! I told Hugh that the car was NEVER used in the winter. Now you've gone and made a complete liar out of me. I do, however, really miss having the squirrel tail on the car. It raised itself up when the car hit 74MPH.

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I told my Allstate rep that I might be getting a motorcycle. His first question was "how much life insurance do you have? I think we have to talk." And the guy at the DMV who issued me the cycle permit told me how pleased he was I'd checked the organ donor box on my driver's license!!! You can't make this stuff up. I swear this is all true. Is there a message in all of this??

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OK, OK, I'll 'fess up. Hugh, I photo shopped Phil's... er... your car in to the winter background by combining the first two photos. Hell, not only didn't Phil's car see snow, it hardly ever saw the light of day! OK Phil, you're off the hook. However, your wife is still going to kick your *** of you get a motorcycle!

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This one would have caused quite a commotion in the "splitter design" thread over in the racing forum!

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That's if I have an *** left to kick. Another word of wisdom from my friendly Allstate agent (a cyclist, by the way): "There are two kinds of motorcyclists; those who have fallen, and those who will fall." This is not encouraging me. And he actually wants my business!! Should I tell him I will buy a perfect BMW bike and never use it either??

Any experienced Porshce owner realizes that the true price of the car is the perfect price less the necessary maintenance costs. With a Porsche it's never just a stop at JifflyLube. Your buyer probably felt he was avoiding a lot of thiose costs with your car.