Any 996 owners also own a C5 Z06 or compared the two?

I'm going to be in the market for another car in 4 months or so and am considering either a C5 Z06 or a 996 (or possibly a 964). This would be my first Porsche to own, and my first WC Porsche to work on (have worked on early(ish) 911s and 964s). The IMS, RMS, etc issues aren't a huge concern to me as long as the car has been maintained and I'd probably just replace the IMS bearing during PM. The C5 has it's own issues as well. The car would be used for some street driving, but mostly autocross and track (HPDE, I have a dedicated race car already) use so I'm curious to see the opinions of those that have owned, or driven, both for autocrossing/road course use. I've driven a few C5 Z06's but have yet to drive a 996, I'll find one at a dealer to test drive whenever my next free weekend will be... All maintenance/repairs will be handled by myself, with the assistance of friends who own (or owned) 911's, so while I know the 996 will be more expensive to maintain I doubt it'll be a deal breaker considering it's limited use. The only thing I'll probably go through often would be brakes... Sorry for posting this, I know this thread is mostly useless, but I research things to death and like to get a feel for what owners think of the cars under the same use I'll be using it for. Thanks, -Dave

I could write pages on this. I've had a good bit of seat time obviously in my car and have been fortunate enough to have a good number of laps in my friends '01 Z06 as well. Are you after ultimate lap times despite the fact you've got a dedicated track car. If so the Z06 is where it's at. However, the 996 will teach you quit a bit once you've mastered it (which after 2.5 years tracking mine I can't say I've done yet)...and likely make you even quicker in your dedicated track car. It's a whole different ball park when it comes to feel and feedback to the driver when compared to the C5 Z. The place the 996 falls short is in the motor department, esp if you get an early 3.4l car like mine with 295 hp. My buddy's Z06 had exhaust and intake and was making 120 more hp at the wheels then my car. I have to say in the quest to go quicker I've thought a time or ten about getting a Z06 however they've never really done much for me emotionally so I'll stick with my slightly slower 996

I've driven both on the street -- the power of the Z06 is incredible, as is the sound and overall "muscle" feel of the car. The handling is ok, but every time I jump back into my 4S I notice how much better the steering is. Also, the P-car grip is pretty outstanding, as is the feedback compared to the Chevy. They really give two different driving experiences.

I'm not concerned with having the quickest track times, nor impressing people with it's performance, I'm looking for something that will be an excellent driver's car, something more communicative than the S2000 I just sold a few months ago. While it was a nice car, the S2000 was just a little too refined in my opinion. It was fast, especially for autocrossing, but considering it was only a 240hp car I'm not really after big HP numbers. I loved driving a friends 964 RS America though. I like my cars to have a specific purpose, I have a daily driver, I have a light use tow vehicle (which I autocross for fun also, but it's mainly used for short towing of the lemons car and mtn bike hauling), and the lemons car. So I'm really looking for a car that will be a blast to drive on track (and driving to and from the track) and for autocross use. I'm with a group that runs a track event for Integra Type-R's that includes a two-day HPDE every year, so I will be driving the car for long distances, possibly across the country, so I do want something that's at least bearable on the highway... Thanks.

Reasonable question, although most of us probably have our own reasons for choosing a certain car. You'll wonder if the 996 is sleeping until you get over 4k rpms. If you wander over to the 996 GT2/3 forum, there's a guy "Z06 convert" (Steve) with a GT2 who has apparently compared and contrasted. A couple folks have picked up extremely low mile 996 GT2's in the low '90s or less, which is a steal considering is was originally a $200k car. The other option is bolting on a supercharger, although I'm not sure how that affects your class.

I have found an 01 996 at a local dealer (Porsche dealer that is, plenty at buy-here-pay-here lots but I don't even want to bother with that, I would buy from a private owner only really, but I don't like test driving private owner vehicles unless I'm 100% ready to buy). Unfortunately, they are closed on sundays, and I'll be very hard pressed to get there before they close after I leave work, and this Saturday I'm autocrossing Maybe next week...

hummm..you need to drive one. The 996 is probably more "refined" than the S2000, but as previously stated it's a much more difficult car to get right at the track and thus a much more rewarding experience. You'll also be hard pressed to find another car with the feel and feedback to the driver that you'd get from a 996. Other than the exhaust I found my buddy's Z06 to be pretty civil...esp on the freeway with it's tall 6th gear and big comfy seats

I currently have a 996 and my brother use to own a Z06. You have to ask yourself what kind of car do you like. If you like an all out muscle car the Z06 is it. Its fast, burns rubber and makes great V8 rumble. With that said its still a relatively composed car on the track with lots of grip. What it does lack is the overall refinement and feel of a 996. There is less road feel and a lack of precission in the Z06. Its not bad, but a 996 is better. Also there is a lack of quality feeling in a Z06. The seats don't feel as solid and the plastic in the car looks cheap. What can you expect for a car as fast as a Ferrari at 50K. I think the driving experience is better in a 996, but it is slower. If you really like your S2000 a 996 will be probably the better choice. If you what something different and fast then a Z06. Both cars are fun, but they go about its business in different ways.

From someone who has a 993 no question Z06!!!!

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LOL!!!

I had lunch with a guy the other day having the same conflict in his head. IMO if you are even thinking about it, then get the Chevy. For me there is and never was a question. I wanted the Porsche and have NO desire to ever get the Corvette. - Lotus Elise, well maybe, but only if I can keep the Porsche too. I would hate to drive that thing everyday.... well, hate is such a strong word

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I agree. I went from a C5 Z06 to my 996 C4S, and I had two vettes before that, so this was my first porsche. The Z06 is much faster and has a lot more torque, the 996 will seem very slow by comparison, but the 996 is more fun to drive, steering feel and grip are worlds better than the Z06. Z06 was probably more fun when you're ringing it out, but the 996 is fun at any speed, even in rush hour traffic. The Z06 would make a better auto x car, too much understeer on a 996, esp with all wheel drive. The 996 can easily be used as a daily driver and throw on a pair of snow tires, can be driven all year round and you can easily fit 2 kids in the back. No need to take an SUV for family drives. In a perfect world I would have both, but if I had to only one I would choose a 996C4S. G

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What year was your S2000? I'm looking to pick up one to use as a track car. I've test driven the AP2's 2004 & up and they are refined but the 00-03's are pretty raw. thanks G

I do not own a Z06 but my student drove a 2006 Z06 at Chin VIR in December. That is a lot of horsepower compared to my 2001 3.4L Carrera. As for handling I guess it is a personal preference. If you are looking for flat out speed, the Z06 is a monster. Trouble comes at you much faster in a track environment!

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I don't get your reasoning at all. I want the car that's a better driver's car for track and autocross use, I don't see how you can deduct that I should get the Z06 just because I'm not sure which car that would be.... I'm not someone who cares one bit about the badge on the car, I want the car that will fit my driving style and my preferences more. As for the Elise, coming from someone who has spent a bit of time in one, they are great cars, and piles of crap at the same time. If you only care about the driver's experience when driving (and can catch the rear view mirror falling off randomly..) it's a great car, but if you want to drive it across the country to do track days all over, or care about build quality, then it's not so great

You can't compare a Z06 with a 996 C4. One is a sports car that requires great driver skill and the other is a car that has training wheels capable of being driven by even the most novice of drivers.

Dave, I would recommend looking at a '02 - '04 996. They made some interior and performance refinements (+20 HP and vario-cam plus) beginning in '02. Either way, buy the latest model you can afford and getting one that has CPO warranty would be even better.

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OUCH!!! Feeling a little frisky today, are we?

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Fun at any speed is ideal IMO, and one of the things I felt were a negative with the S2000, it was fun when you beat on it, but when just driving it around it was boring. I've decided to skip the autocross tomorrow, and have setup an appt to go test drive an 01 C4 (it may be a C2, depending on which ad you read...) and an 03 Z06.

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I just want to prevent this thread from becoming a love fest.

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My thought is that if you have been at the track and have most likely seen both cars, I have also seen Vette's run, and if that does something for you, then I think you owe it to yourself to get one. (there is something drawing you to it....not the badge) That's all, They are very different, each will require learning new skills. Get the one that has the most draw for you. (IMO if you are asking, then the Vette holds enough draw that if you dont get it you might wish you had)

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I had an 06. AP1's are more raw, but at least for autocrossing, I always put down faster times in AP2's.. I've toyed with the idea of getting a 2000 or 2001 S2000, throwing a cage in it and using it, but I've been there already, I like switching to different cars. Great cars when they are getting beat on though.

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I really wish I could have driven VIR the two years I was there (running events), but since the S2000 didn't have a rollbar, it wasn't VIR friendly

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By that logic, I would then regret not getting the 996 since I'm drawn to it as well no? To be honest, the Z06 worries me more on track than the 996 does. I'm not used to big horsepower... Both of these cars are performance bargains IMO. And BTW, I'm more drawn to the 996 at the moment... Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll post my impressions after I test drive them tomorrow.

Just wanted to add a few things to the mix, per your discussion on car control. I'm sure you know the 996 is harder to catch once the rear comes out. Most of the mass is in the rear and once it comes out it builds up more rotational inertia faster. This issue is further intensified if the car has an open differential. I cannot compare this to the z06, but compared to my e46 m3 the 996 is MUCH more sensitive to inputs at the limit. Changes in throttle have a bigger effect which forces the driver to be smooth. These make for a much more 'exciting' driving experience in the 996 and is why I switched from the M3 (tho I really regret not finding an LSD car). Aftermarket LSDs for the 996 go for $1500 (torsion) or $2500 (clutch pack) from Guards Transmissions plus install. The z06 comes with LSD standard, this was only an option for the carrera2. If you do have an LSD the car will have traction control only and will not have Porsche Stability Management. In my opinion, the z06 also has a superior stability control system that allows you ample room to play before kicking it. The system's calculated coefficient of friction (tire and road) is is dynamic meaning it works for different tires, wet/dry and has slip, yaw, and steering angle sensors. It is my understanding it will allow some sideways motion given the steering input angle the computer sees will correct the slide. All of this can also be disabled obviously.

No problem, remember.... I dont know you or your driving style, skills or desires. I am just posting an opinion and it has no real evidense that I am making sense or have a clue as to what or why I say what I do.... Therefore, as you already stated, its just poeple talking and use it for what its worth. The decision is yours and I would be happy to hear your results. I hope what ever you get, its a good car and treats you well. Who knows, you might end up in both one day!

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Tim, I think you're buckin' for Moderator status, keepin' it real.

I had a C5, however not a ZO6, so take this with a grain of salt. I would take a 996 over a C5 any day of the week. The balance of the 996 is just second to none in my book. Also, driveabilty is something to look at too. C5s are a bit low, very wide, and only 2 seats. As a daily driver, I much rather drive a 996.

ivangene: Fission: Thanks for the input. The cost of the LSDs is something to consider since the LSD will help with autocrossing quite a bit.

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Dave, Oh jeez, if that were to transpire, then I would have to become respectable, and we all know that ain't gonna happen!

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That or just find a '99 or '04 that already has it. Mine's still in good working order at 50K miles though some have had issues with the stock unit not lasting very long for them. The '04 anniversary cars have both LSD and the X-51 power package (345hp). LiveNupe has a great examle for sale here right now for only $36K.

I have driven both and have to say that if this car is going to be your DD, you should go with the Pcar. Z06 is like driving a buckboard. I'm sure it's fun on a track, but daily driving on the streets, no. I would also suggest Carmax. You'll get a better deal than the Stealership. Plus you might be able to dirve both cars in one day.

Yeah I did give up on the whole 996 water cooled Porsche thing. It was just costing me too much to use as a daily driver and it was pretty bad on reliability as well. I understand the first one being a salvage and all but the second I paid a good dollar for and was not very rewarding. I went with one of these instead. It is a workin progress and needs some TLC though!! Also managed to pick up a 07 Corvette Z06 off a client who was unable to pay my bill before Christmas!!! Will get some pics when it warms up. I cant even open my garage door too much damn ice and snow out side!!! OH yeah!!! But what can I say times and attitudes change!!!!

Drove both yesterday, here's my thoughts on them.. 2001 996: This car was in decent shape as far as the body is concerned, and had some issues (leaking valve cover gaskets, needed a recent service (75k I'd guess since the car had 76k on it) and something else. The valve covers were not a slight leak, oil was almost literally running down the motor and onto the exhaust manifolds on both sides, leaving puddles of oil underneath the car. The engine bottom of the engine was covered in oil and grime, maybe a RMS too? Interior wise, I like the 996 interior more than the previous years, the updated gauge cluster is refreshing compared to the older AC cars IMO. Seats were nice, ac worked decent, certainly well enough in the 50-60 degree weather yesterday. The car drove great, I love the suspension (stock) compared to the 964's, even compared to the 964 RS America. Brakes felt great, steering was excellent in feel, weighting and communication, turn in was quite nice, shifter was good (not as good as the S2000, but I've yet to find a shifter that feels as nice and positive as the S2000...). I really enjoyed driving it, even just going down the highway at a steady pace. There definately is something about a 911 that you don't find in other cars. Hands down the better car to drive. Power was fine IMO, lacking compared to the Z06, but it was good enough in my opinion. The mechanical problems somewhat removed the enjoyment of driving the car since the little rattle on startup, all that oil leaking, etc was in the back of my head when I was driving it.... obviously I didn't get a chance to really test it's handling... 2003 Z06: Unlike the Porsche dealer, the Chevy dealer actually fixes problems they detect with their used cars, it was actually in the shop getting the passenger side door lock/window controller replaced when I got there to look at the car. They had to order the part so they gave me the keys to take it out. This car also may have had slightly bent shift forks (a known issue on some Z06's) as the shifter was tighter, especially around 5th and 6th, than other Z06's I've driven before. The power and torque that the Z06 has is just.. well.. you feel like a kid driving the thing. Not really sure how to describe it, it just made my laugh when I would beat on the car. On the other hand, when I wasn't beating on the car, GM's lack of attention to details really came out. The shifter isn't great, not very positive at all (again thiis one may have been a bad example here), the steering lacks feel, bumps are transmitted through the steering, but with a weird delay and a feeling of something being loose almost. Brakes are very strong, but feel and modulation weren't as good as the 996. Interior.. well that one's obvious enough. The interior isn't absolutely horrible but it's not exactly one of the cars strong points. Seats are bleh and I noticed weird things, like my wallet in my back pocket, rattles (which according to a friend I had with me were also present in the 996, but I guess I was more focused on driving to notice), etc. instead of enjoying the car. The Z06 is an absolute blast when you are beating on it, but driving it at a normal pace and in a normal street environment you really pay attention to other parts of the car.. and it's a let down in a way. I'm not sure my garage is actually wide enough to hold the Z06 and the race car..... I'm not going to eliminate the Z06 quite yet, but the 996 is definately where I'm leaning currently.

I have had all cars you are talking about. One thing to remember these are all opinions, but for me I tracked my Wife's s2000 an 05 and enjoyed it but lacked power, the corvette which was stock felt light at rear end on track but fun on street. My 01 996 which is set up for track has the right amount of power for me to enjoy the twisties but harsh on street. I guess the best of both worlds would be another gt3 but I was always worried of what could go wrong so I never drove hard and got tired of taping everything. For the money 996 is right for me.

most times that I have been to track with vettes at least one of them seems to break. I am not bashing these cars...just questioning their reliability. also build quality and safety I don't think are comparable.

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I agree. I sold my C6 to buy the C4S. The Vette was a summer only vehicle and I've always hated putting my toys away!

If you're looking at a z06, you ought to consider the later year models. The changes in the shocks/springs make the rear end somewhat more planted and a bit more controllable especially at higher speeds with small drift angles. The 996 is more fun to drive fast, the z06 is more fun to act stupid with. Stability in competition mode in the z06 is really quite good, though it sounds like you wouldn't utilize it much.

I havent read through all the post so sorry if I repeat some things. First, you cant just replace the IMS bearings unless you have lots of Porsche tooling and time or a fairly large amount of cash to pay Raby or some other shop. Second, the Z06 is numb but very powerful. I never tracked, only auto-crossed, but I would take the 996 for the track because you know when you are going to lose it. The Z06, hell no. You'd be in the grass before it let you know it was going to let go. But, for the C5 Z06 is really reliable and cheap to fix, not the P-car.

I'm confused- I thought the consensus was that given the choice of a Porsche or a Vette, the only true answer was to buy both?

I had both 04 Z06 (last C5) and 02 C4S. The Z06 was incredible at the track, very reliable once I made a few minor mods, and was pretty much an even match for 996 GT3 when running comparable tires and brake pads. Ran at VIR, CMP, and Sebring. That said, it needed real racing seats (factory ones had no lateral support), needed to change brake rotors for almost every event (though they were only 25/each at NAPA), needed to wrap tie rod ends with heat reflective tape (heat from brakes would melt the rubber covers on the ends), and it was not very friendly as a DD. It has almost no trunk space, and the quality of the interior/switchgear was no better than low-end Chevy. Excellent torque out of corners, handling was not bad, though a switch to the Chevy T1 suspension package is worth several seconds a lap if you get serious. Steering feel doesn't compare to 996. My C4S was a wonderful road car, but I never really enjoyed tracking it. The steering was great, had more tire than the car needed for its power, and the brakes were just awesome. I was running it completely stock except for PF97 brake pads, and it just didn't compare to running the Z06 on track. Could be if I'd gone to track tires and seats/harnesses, I might have enjoyed it more, but it just didn't jazz me as much. It seemed heavy and was a different kind of fast (more up top), so it didn't get my adrenaline going as much. I've also tracked front-drive Acuras, Subaru STi's, and 951's. The vette trumped them all for all-out, ***** out track fun. I still loved the 996 more than all of them as an all-arounder - so much better looking and more refined... If you can afford it, the C6 Z06 makes the C5 Z06 seem slow by comparison. I got to drive an early production model when instructing a GM engineer at the first National Corvette Museum event at CMP a few years ago. The C6 Z06, with run flat tires and stock pads, running only about 80%, absolutely smoked my C5 Z06 on slicks and real brake pads running at 95%. I've heard pushing the C6 Z06 to the limit can get pretty hairy, but I didn't have to drive it that hard to be impressed.

I go to CMP fairly often, what are you running there these days? You going to be at the LeMons race in April? I could definately see the Z06 being the faster track car and superior autocross car, but I like using the underdog sometimes too... This all may be moot as it turns out, I may pick up a 97 Integra Type-R if I can get it cheap enough to either part out or build into a Honda Challenge car then sell it, I'm hoping to get the car for less than 4k and have all the parts in the garage to finish it.. so it'll take up some money for now and more importantly garage space... Either way I suspect it'll take me months to find the right car anyways. Shuster: Have you instructed anyone with a 996 C2? Curious as to your thoughts on how it would be on track vs the C4S. Thanks.

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I've been in several 996 C2's on the track and they definitely felt different than the C4S. It is really tough to compare apples to apples, as my car was on stock crappy Pirelli Pzero street tires, totally stock suspension, and the other 996s I've been in were on R-compound tires and in some cases GT3 suspension components. Also, I found during my search for a 996 that each one seems to drive a little bit differently than the last - which I think many 996 owners will probably agree with. I didn't have the chance to instruct a full weekend in anyone else's 996, so my comments are from limited C2 experience, a few dozen laps at best. The C4S all wheel drive was not the best I've driven, sometimes it seemed to kick the front grip up a little abruptly, wasn't seamless. The car was pretty stable though a bit of understeer as expected. I actually prefer the STi, with its ability to vary the front/rear drive bias electronically. My C4S was meant as a dual-purpose DD/track car, and I what I really learned is that while I loved the 996, it didn't suit me for both purposes. It is very hard if not impossible to find a true compromise. For track car, I'd want all the safety equipment and go-fast stuff. That doesn't translate well to street car/DD.

Well I had a 2001 Z06 for two years and I've owned my '02 996 for 2.5 years. I've put twice the miles on the 996 than I did on the Z06, although as a cab I've not had it on the track. The Z06 was on the track quite a bit. The Corvette is, without a doubt, the most bang for the buck. Great performance, very nice handling, decent brakes right out of the box. With a decent alignment and a larger rear sway to take out some of the understeer and some race brake pads it does very well on the track. Steering feedback is, well, there is no steering feedback. That's the biggest drawback of the car. Oh, and it's a Chevy. My car had recalls for the brake booster, the seat, the steering column lock and something else that I've forgotten. The steering column lock failed shortly after the recall and Chevy told me to eat it. Tires are pricey, but then again, they are for the Porsche as well. Fit and finish sucks ***. Piston slap and oil burning issues made me question Chevrolet's commitment to excellence. The Porsche is the culmination of 40+ years of improving a really stupid design with the engine in the wrong place. Everything they've done is to compensate for that bad decision. However, everything else makes it worth-while. The steering feedback is incomparable. The stock factory brakes are incredible, the fit and finish is excellent and the refinement of the drivetrain is exceptional. Wonderful clutch, nice shifter, and in my experience, very reliable cars as well. I've had my 964 and 993 on the track, and these cars are a blast to drive. Just when you think you've gone as fast as you can, you learn something new about the car and you go a little faster. Until oversteer catches up with you and punts you off into the grass. Hence my earlier comment about that engine in the wrong place. Porsche parts cost more (although Chevy is no bargain) but I suspect that you will need more Chevy parts. Both cars can be bought cheap these days. When I decided to sell the Z06, I couldn't give it away. Lots of people complain about the horrible seats in the Chevy but for me, I actually found them more comfortable for long trips than the Porsche. Both cars' stock seats are inadequate for the track. As for maintenance, you will find a lot more knowledge and help on Rennlist for your car than you will on C5forum or other Corvette forums. Unless you need to ask about the best wax or which chrome wheels look better on the car. HTH, Michael