MKII C4 vs C4s

Did they make both? Are there differences between the two? I thought the C4 became the C4S in 02. Also, is it true there is no such thing as a c4s cab?

As the soon to be owner of a MKII C4S, I can tell you that they are not the same. I can also tell you that MKII C4S cabs do exist. I will now stand back and allow the knowledgeable folks to give a verbose description of the differences.

The C4 is essentially a plain 911 w/ all wheel drive. The C4S is an all wheel drive 911 on steroids. It is described as a turbo, without the turbo. You get the wide turbo rear-end, US sport suspension 030, turbo brakes, etc. A truly awesome 911. But then I might be a little biased.

They are simply different models... the C4 being an AWD version of the standard C2. The 996 C4 is based on the C2. The 996 C4S is based on the Turbo shell meaning: turbo front bumper, widebody (running 225 and 295s), sports suspension, big red brakes, full leather interior as standard ... none of which you get on the stock C4. [ oops posted at the same time as Medtech...]

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I love that red!

Malakas - That's a beautiful color! I hate red cars but I LOVE orient red. Okay thanks guys. I was always very confused about this, and for some reason couldnt find it easily searching around. Are the engines the same between the cars? And is the performance drastically different (i know suspension, brakes and tires will make an impact obviously)? Is there a c2s also, or is that just a 997?

I believe that the C4S was the only "S" model for the 996 series. The engine in the MKII is the same 3.6L as in other MKIIs.

C4 has a stiffer body, it's used in the GT3.

Damn just when I was trying to convince myself I could probably manage with a 2 wheel driver, I learn that many didn't have an LSD (i care more for snow than for performance - i dont track) and that the c4s comes with all these extra goodies. The c4s definitely comes as a vert too? Not sure if I want a vert, but the guy at the dealership this weekend insisted they only came hardtop

there was no C2S only a C4S and Turbo S I confirm that there is no engine difference between a C4S or any other mkII na model with the exception of the 40th anniversary which came with 345hp from the X51 option.

I have an ’02 C4S, would prefer a C2S, but they didn’t offer that in the 996 AFAIK. I went with the C4S because I was transitioning from an Audi and wanted to stay with the AWD, wish I hadn’t. I don’t think the AWD adds much to my driving – California, mostly good weather, but it does add weight and make the trunk smaller.

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Yeah I could see that. I'm in CT. We get all seasons and plenty of icey snow in the winter time. The LSD on my M3 (and think my 944 had it too) has allowed me to get around pretty successfully in bad weather with just RWD, but I'm not sure how well a RWD w/o LSD would fair when treking through snow

The 4S has a little more HP than the C4.

the first two pics are from my previous c4s and the last two are from my current tt. they are almost identical twins from the outside, but could not be further apart in what's hiding underneath the engine compartment. btw as you can probably tell...i love guards red.

Nice cars! I've never seen the c4s and TT next to each other to notice that. They really do look identical. I wish I could have TT as a daily I like the clear sidemarker on your TT more than the amber

Manny, Do you get pulled over a lot in those red cars? Or is that a myth?

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The Carrera (C2) and Carrera 4 (C4) have the narrow body. The C4 body is slightly stiffer to accommodate the AWD. GT3s were built on the C4 platform for increased stiffness even though they don't have the AWD. The Mk I 996 (3.4L) was available US model years 1999-2001 in C2 and C4 coupe or cabrio. No "S" model. The Turbo was introduced in 2001 with the fried egg headlights and wide body. The Mk II (3.6L) was available US model years 2002-2004 with the face lift i.e. turbo style headlights to differentiate the 911s from the Boxters. The C2 was available as a coupe or cabrio, but the C4 narrow body was only available as a cabrio in the US. In the rest of the world C4 coupes were available. The C4S was basically a turbo-style wide body car without the turbo engine. It was available initially as a coupe then later (2004-2005?) as a cabrio too. There was no 996 C2S model. The C4S and the C2 and C4 all had the same base engine.

Thanks for the compliments on the color guys! She's a beaut- I love driving this car. While many elude to the benefts of the awd system in bad weather, reading Porsche's description of the awd system (and other materials), it is clear they made the awd system foremost for better dry performance. Obviously, there are inherent wet and snow benefits from having awd - but a mechical center diff (with locking) would have been far better if Porsches goal was to make an all weather beast. That said, there really is no performance gain in the real world - in fact the extra weight cancels the better traction. But it is a different feel - and you get the sexy ****!

Former C4S owner here- had 02 Lapis/Savanna that I loved, but just didn't get to use enough and didn't need heavily depreciating 'art' in the garage Yes, absolutely there are C4S Cabriolets - Eric-Plug Guy has a beautiful one. You can see the few differences between the C4S and the 996TT are: - TT has factory rear turbo wing, C4S has one very similar to standard Carrera - TT has large ducts in front of rear fenders (I believe for fresh air to the intercoolers) - TT has a slightly different front lip spoiler - TT has torque, torque, and some more torque compared to the standard carrera engine in the C4S - TT and C4S suspension are tuned slightly differently (I read somewhere, to account for the lighter weight of the C4S) - TT came with hollow spoke wheels, which were lighter weight than the C4S wheels that otherwise look identical. (note: some of the earliest TT's may have come with solid spoke wheels, if I recall, due to supply issues with the hollows) Otherwise, as stated earlier, it's a Turbo without the turbos...

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I think it's a myth.

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Unfortunately, the C4S is nothing like a 911 on steroids. Using the analogy of a 911 on steroids, would be the the GT3 and or the Turbo. The C4S is just looks and nothing else, period. The only 996 with greater hp is the 40th anniversary edition, a 2004, that has increased hp due to engine modifications, also known as the x51. To summarize, 2002 and later are 3.6L engines producing approximately 320 hp, 345 with x51. GT3 and Turbo's producing 381 and 415 hp, with an x50 option boosting the turbo to 450 hp.

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so the better brakes, stiffer chassis and suspension are only cosmetic in your opinion?

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That's because he only considers "upgrades" as horsepower only and does not look at brakes, suspension, and overall chassis.

Can a C4S be refitted with an X51? i.e. will an X51 mate to the AWD tranny?

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Yes

This thread is not complete without a link to this: Videos Then find the video labeled "TopGear 996TT vs C4S." It is critical that you watch the last minute to fully understand the 996 model line up.

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Sure, the X51 option is an engine modification (IIRC headers, intake, cams and some other bits and pieces) nothing to do with the AWD system. You will need around $16,000 and change. Porsche claims a conservative 25 hp increase. Although in today's market for an extra $16K you could be in either 996 TT or 997 price range.

Or look for a 40th Anniversary Edition......

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haha that was a good video. He really does seem to dislike the c4s compared to the c4. Doesnt seem at all performance based tho, but rather bitter about it looking like a turbo. He made it sound like it's 100% c4 + bodykit.

Drive a C4 and a C4S back to back (I did) and if you can't tell the difference, I'll be VERY surprised. And another thing: not every p-car enthusiast lusts for a turbo, some of us prefer the lighter cars (including the C4S) with NA engines, since they will still be more capable than most of our driving abilities... unless your name is Patrick Long and your workday is spent behind the wheel of an RS.

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+1.

X51 question was more out of curiosity. I don't think I would ever actually do it -- unless I had to replace the engine for another reason.

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+1 on all of the above. C4S cabs were available in both 04 and 05.

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It could be argued that the C4S is the worst of both worlds--most of the weight of the turbo but none of the power. That said, I haven't researched the weight of the C4S... I'd really like to see how a garden-variety C4 stacks up against a C4S... Also, the only 996 I would ever own over my C4 is the TT.

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If that's how you want to look at it, but a C4S is a pretty formidable track car and I've seen them be faster than lighter and more powerful 2wd p-cars at the track (not me...I'm too slow and cautious). In the end, the C4S was one of the best value stories with the 996: great chassis, great brakes, lovely full leather interior and the best looking butt of ANY 996 model imho. I didn't even seriously consider any other 996 model and at the time, even chose my 03 C4S over a 997 (non S) for the same money.

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Some info: A 996 TT is 364 pounds heavier than a 996 C4. An 02-04 C4S is 210 pounds heavier than a 99-01 996 C4 - but because it has more power (320 vs. 300), its power to weight ratio is equal to the 996 C4 (10.1).

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and higher than an '02-'04 C2.....

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Yeah, as I recall, the TT is about 150lbs heavier than the C4S, give or take a few lbs from varying options.

Re C4S vs 996 narrow body: while aesthetics are subjective, the widebody curves (and sculpted turbo nose) are what won me over. (That, and I use it as an all-weather daily driver in BC, Canada). Personally, the extra 20HP and few hundred pounds are simply not something that I notice every day (and I'd argue most other others wouldn't either)... BUT the curves are sooo nice... yes, I still give her a glance backwards as I walk away.

Boy am I glad that my wife doesn't read these forums. Otherwise she'd think I'm cheating on her with the P-car with all this talk of curves.

The GT3, TT and the C4S are based on a C4 shell... of course the c4s and tt are just wider. I know a guys with a c4s (tip) on the track that just mows everyone down... very fast!... I have a hard time keeping up with him on my SC 996. He even leaves it in auto!... it all boils down to the driver.

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+1 on that... so much so that I'm getting the turbo-look bumper (along with aero-look side rockers) put on my C2 Cab... It's been a few weeks (I think the body shop took me too literally when I told them to take their time...) Hopefully it will be ready for me when I get back from business travel on Thursday... I'm thinking that the next step will be to beef up the rear bumper cover and put a properly proportioned wing and I'll be done with the exterior (except for the upgrade to a glass rear window). The stock stuff was plenty attractive, but I think I'm going to like the wider body parts much better... Rudy ---------------------------- '01 Arctic Silver/Black C2 Cabriolet '03 Silver F-150 Supercrew