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YOUR RESEARCHMisha Wing & Side Skirts, List to date Install
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Painted Calipers red, Remove cleaned & sprayed ( Note to self, Never do this again
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I am running a narrow 275 on the rear currently, but I can see some room for me to go to 285 and possibly 295, but will only do that once the rears need replacing.
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i ran the stock c4s 18s for a bit when i first picked up the car in San Fran and it rides no worse or better than the 19s i have on today.
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Suggestion
I could replace my 10" wide 18's rear wheels with 9" wide 19" wheels and end up with less tread on the ground.
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Suggestion
- If you replace an 8" wheel with an 50mm offset with a 9" wheel with a 50mm offset, the new wheel will EXTEND an additional 13mm compared to the original wheel, and there will be 13mm LESS inside clearence compared to the original 8" wheel.
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Well Its coming along,
Install to date:
PSS9
Elbach Sway bar (front and rear)
V1 hard wired
Aluminum Gauge Rings.
Stock 3.6L muffler PSE Mod.
B&M Short shifter
Garage Door Switch installed in Horseshoe
Spoiler Switch installed in Horseshoe. (not needed any more...hmmm... Change for A rocket switch)
3rd radiator
Intake Kit. red boot
MK II side skirts
Misha Wing
X-51 oil pan (Install pan today)
Stainless steal break lines
Free Floating front rotors, With 97 pads
High temp break fluid
Painted Calipers red, Remove cleaned & sprayed ( Note to self, Never do this again
)
Porsche Tequipment Role bar, Install for (Track days)
GT3 Replica Seats, Carbon Fiber with Leather (Track days)
Still on the list:
Seat Belts 6 Points
Track Wheels
Front Bumper
I would love any suggestions on this list
Thanks
P_Smile & Tim,
Bolt on stuff is easy,
Now I can't seem to figure out the tire stuff, as the car sits right now. If I wanted to use spacers I would need different front and rear, Is that normal?? and is the C4 considered wide??
Just trying to figure out what to do in-regards to wheels,
1) New track wheels..keep these as DD
2) new DD wheels 19"....keep these as DE
Any thoughts
Jerry
oh u are lowered on pss9s, all the more easier for you to make the biggest visualize impact on your ride which is to get a nice set of 19s.
yea, the offsets suck because the wheels are factory. they tuck in like an rv wheel when lowered.
don't bother with spacers. they suck. just get 19s and call it a day. though i have set of perfect OZs for sale, they won't fit your car as they're for c4s/turbo/gt2 fitment.
how about a set of champions? they make perfect 19s for narrowbodies... i believe 11s in the rear. don't go for anything less.
Jerry,
Since the C4 is a narrow body, I am guessing your wheels are 8" wide with 50mm offset on the front and 10" wide with 65mm offset in the rear. You coupd add 7mm spacers in teh front and 15mm spacers in the rear to get a more agressive look without and rubbing issues.
19" wheels will most likely be heavier than most 18" wheels and the ride will be harsher because of the lower aspect ratio needed for the tires. Additionally, 19" tires will be more expensive and there is not as wide of a selection in 19's as there is in 18's.
If you find some wheels you are interested in (18" or 19"), post the widths and the offsets here and we can help you determine if they will fit properly. This can keep you from making a big mistake $$$ wise.
Tim
That is what I keep reading in regards to the spacers but my front is further away it would need a bigger spacer and the back a smaller one
So what do you think of that?
Jerry
Jerry,
I "think" I understand what you mean when you say "my front is further away it would need a bigger spacer and the back a smaller one." However, if I understand your statement correctly, I believe you actually have that backwards. On a given wheel width, the higher the offset number, the more the wheel will retract toward the center of the car. Three
Changing only the offset
- If you have two 8" wide wheels, the 1st wheel has a 50 mm offset and the 2nd wheel has a 65mm offset. The 2nd wheel will RETRACT 15mm toward the center of the car compared to the 1st wheel. This means that relative to the 1st wheel, the outside (face) of the wheel will RETRACT by 15mm and there will be 15mm LESS clearence on the inside of the wheel.
So adding a 7mm spacer to an 8" wide wheel with a 50mm offset would be the same as having a wheel with a 43mm offset. By adding the spacer, the outside of the wheel will EXTEND 7mm more and there will 7mm more clearence on the inside of the wheel.
Changing only the wheel width
- If you replace an 8" wheel with an 50mm offset with a 9" wheel with a 50mm offset, the new wheel will EXTEND an additional 13mm compared to the original wheel, and there will be 13mm LESS inside clearence compared to the original 8" wheel.
Changing both wheel width and the offset
- It gets a little more complicated if you change both the wheel width and the offset. That is why is is good to have a wheel offset calculator available. This one is very good.
Wheel Width & Offset Calculator
I would suggest you play with different widths and offsets, using either your front or rear wheel specs as the "current" wheel.
If you already know all of this then I apologize for wasting your time with the length of this post. I hope this has helped. Please let me know if you have any questions.
Tim
Thanks for the info...I do not want to do this twice
If I measure the distance from the wheel to the inside lip of the fenders front and back the back is 1/4" +/- and the front is a 1/2" +/-
Here are some picks from the center of the rim shot strait up...as well as new seats installed
first pic, front
second Pic. rear
So is that 15mm front and 7mm back???
There is more space in front than in the rear, but you also have to remember that your front wheels will be turning. Many guys here have done 7mm spacers in the front and 15mm spacers in the rear without any rubbing issues. I think you "could" do 15mm in the front, but I do not recall anyone doing that.
spacers this spacers that... if u wanna do it up right, i'm sticking to my guns and recommending that you get a set of lightweight one piece champion wheels with perfect width/offsets so you don't have to go about like a science nerd and measure everything to add something to a car that is in my opinion superfluous.
19s ride harsher.. you guys seriously that old and fragile or am i just a very tolerant, open minded individual?
If I keep these as track tires? I want to get them out, so I will need spacers for them...
the other problem is, If I order 19" I do not want them to look like this,
Tim do you think I might have goofy rim's, with that much space up front or is that usual??
Ben I agree they look like an rv
Just to let you know
Put the seats in the car and well..they will stay, we (wife and I) both like how the car feels
so a stiffer ride is not an issue! right size rims is the issue
jerry
4-large, can't help u there as i have no idea what your stock wheel offsets are, but i'm sure if you do a search you'll find it or just hope someone who does mess around with stock wheels would know (likely gota911, et al).
i'm sure you won't be the first to tack on spacers on stock wheels.
If all someone wants to do is get a little wider stance and get a little more agressive look to the wheels, why spend $2,500 to $4,000 on new wheels when you can spend a couple hundred on spacers?
19" wheels will ride harsher, there is not doubt about that. Anyone thinking about switching to 19" needs to be aware of that. You "push" for 19" wheels quite often, totally for the "bling bling" factor, but I don't recall you ever mentioning the harsher ride that comes with the 19's. Like many things in life, there are usually trade-offs associated with changes, and there certainly are trade-offs assiciated with going from 18" to 19" wheels. I am just trying to make sure all valid points are brought up so someone can make an informed decision.
Oh Ben, one more thing. Just because I'm older than dirt doesn't mean I don't appreciate good looking wheels!
Tim
Do you think I might have goofy rim's, with that much space up front or is that a usual amount of space?? is this a stock set up???( I dont know)... I got the car used so ????
Thanks for your help
jerry
I know i know - you've been here a lot longer than i have so i give that up to you.
but the whole "bling bling" phobia with you and the majority of others on this forum is what keeps me coming back. you always point to side markers... good i got them... i always point to aerokit, wheels, adjustable coilvers... way more money, but if you can pull it off, it DO IT. if u can't, stay stock and enjoy the drive.
and going from 18s to 19s on the 996 has been done time and again. the dude is already rollin' on pss9s so he has additional adjustability to go softer if he wishes. i ran the stock c4s 18s for a bit when i first picked up the car in San Fran and it rides no worse or better than the 19s i have on today. the point i'mt rying to make is it's hairsplitting. did it on the M3 going from stock 18s to 19". minimal diff.
for what you "give up" from going to a narrower profile tire, you are making up magnitudes more in the looks dept which makes the ownership experience SO much better.
if a dude is rolling a gt3 and is an avid track guy, i'd never say get some 19s. there are better people to dole out such advice. again, being a man of vanity due to my insecurities
, i say go big or go home.
the guy doesn't sound like he's splitting hairs over $ either. spacers suck. the visual enhancement is minimal. no one else will notice. with the 19s the car rides great, you'll have more tread to the ground and he may in fact prefer the feel on the 19s v the 18s. let's hope he shods them with some quality tires (e.g. ps2s). let me state again. it's going to LOOK MAGNITUDES better and if he gets tired of them, you can get a decent amount of your $ back by selling them.
No, your Sport Design wheels are not goofy rims. Personally I like the Sport Design wheels even better thatn the Turbo II wheels I have. What are the widths and offsets of your wheels, front and rear? If they are Porsche OEM wheels the width in inches and offset in mm will be stamped on either side of the valve stem, something like 8 || 50 (where || is the valve stem).
Ben, just to clarify a point, I do not have "bling bling" phobia. My point is that there are more things to consider than just the appearance of 19" wheels.
Going to 19" wheels does not, in and of itself, guarantee that you will have more tread on the ground. If you go with wider wheels, either 18's or 19's, you can get more tread on the ground. If someone who didn't know squat about wheels and tires read your post, they could come away thinking that by going with 19" wheels they would automatically get more tread on the ground, and that is just not true. I could replace my 10" wide 18's rear wheels with 9" wide 19" wheels and end up with less tread on the ground.
My point in this post and my previous post is that more often than not you offer only half the story, and it is usually the "appearance" side of the story. You rarely include the "functional" side of the story, good or bad. The "appearance" part is purely subjective. What someone else likes you may hate, and vice versa. But that's OK, because if we all had the same taste, we would all be driving Silver Porsches. Yuck! (I chose Silver as the example because 1) it is the most
common
color and 2) it is also the color of your car. Just wanted to give you one of these
Now back to our subject).
However, the true "functional" side of things is not subjective, It is based upon fact, not conjecture or personal preference. Fact: 19" wheels will cause the car to ride harsher than 18" wheels because there is less tire and air between the wheel and the street.
I'll give you one more example and then I'm finished. When someone goes to a 19" wheel that is 11" wide on the rear, you chide them because they didn't go 12" wide, 'cuz 12's look better (Subjective). Fact: going to 12" wide tires in the rear will increase the understeer in these cars. You can't put a 10" wide tire in the front to counter balance the 2" wider rear tires, so the understeer in increased. (Functional).
Are you seeing the point here? I have nothing against appearance (bling bling) but there is more to the story than just appearance, there is also function. There are usually very good reasons why "
form follows function
" and not the other way around!
too much stuff to put down here for me to want to begin to type it all out.
-i recommended a specific wheel (champions)
-he is lowered on pss9s
and this has got to be the first time my car's been criticized for its color which is artic silver which tells me you are reaching... way reaching. and the whole form follows function.. people it's a damn street car. the 911... breaking news... is designed for the STREET. there are federal LAWS forcing it to be just that for our safety and compatibility with public roads. so yes, form is following function.
speed summed it up well.
Steven,
If You saw post #13, Not sure if you would of responded that way???
Two new sets of wheels is not an option.
Just trying to figure out what to do in-regards to wheels,
1) New track wheels..keep these as DD (with spacers)
2) new DD wheels 19"....keep these as DE
(with or with out spacers)
I will keep the 18 for sure, so I need to space them out? ( maybe, or run them at the track with or without ) and if I order 19 I dont know what to order in-regards to offsets
Thanks All,
Tim, I was not referring to the look as goofy but instead of the offset being goofy. So do they seem stock for a C4 and would u run 7mm and 15mm
So looking at the rim thanks Tim
Front 8-52
Rear 10-65
Spacer size
Front ???
Rear ???
New 19" (Non RV Look)
Front ???
Rears ???
So the only thing that would change all this is if 18"
wider
is better for the track???? If so then i would run my 18 with spacers and get new 18 for the track....Tim you make a good point about under steer....
9x18 11x18
Ben, I was not cirticizing your car, I was just taking a friendly (which is why I included the
smiley) "jab" at you to get under your skin a little. Similar to your "jab" at me for having supple leather seats, which is OK with me because that is personal preference.
Yes, your Sport Designs are stock wheel sizes. If it were me, I would do 7mm front and 15mm rear. If you don't think that 7mm is enough on the front then you could try this. Buy 1 pair of 15mm spacers and install one on the rear and one on the front to see how it looks and check out if there will be rubbing issues on the front. If no issues with 15mm on the front, then get a second pair for the other side. If there is a problem with teh 15mm on the front, then order a 7mm pair and you are good to go.
9x18 & 11x18 would work, it the offsets are correct. Or 9x19 & 11x19 would also work but you want to be a lottle more careful with the offsets on these because your car is lowered.
If you go 9" wide and 11" wide, you will want to stay reasonably close to the offsets of your current wheels. If the offsets are identical to your current (52mm front & 65mm rear), the wheels will extend an additional 13mm compared to your current wheel and you will also have 13mm less clearence in the inside. This should not be a problem.
Here is the process I would use to determine which wheels to get:
1) 18" or 19" - I think this decision needs to be made first.
2) what wheel widths do you want
- front 8" or 8.5" or 9"
- rear 10" or 10.5" or 11" (12" will probably not fit properly on a N/B car)
3) determine correct/desired offsets which will not cause rubbing issues inside or outside
4) select wheel design/brand
Hope this helps.
Yup.
A lot of people don't realize that tire sidewall compliance is assumed into your suspension design. Remove that compliance without somehow creating much more sensitivity in the suspension, and you get a car that has a harder time putting power down and keeping wheels from unweighting slightly over every little bump.
19s are completely about looks and, yes, they will cost you some handling performance above 7 or 8/10ths. If that's not a concern, then I agree, they look hawt.
and i've love to see how many of you 19" detractors/18" faithfuls actually have the *****/skills/oppty to go even 6/10ths of the 911's performance. really. whatever the heck 7-8.5 tenths thousandths means.
this one looks damn good (makes me almost think a non aerokitted c4s lowered on nice 19s looks better than mine - sike) and i'm sure wouldn't have any issues keeping up with your 18" superlightweightsupermanspiderman wheels.
Tim thanks this will help, at least I have enough info to figure this out. i kept reading past post and seeing 7mm front and 15mm rear, but not knowing what the had as space, and when I looked at my car seeing so much space up front ( I did not think about the turning issue)
BruceP... I never was going to run 19 at the track, Thanks for the input.
Hey, I admit it: My car does not get pushed to anywhere near its limits. But the psychic benefit you get from your car looking good is the same as the psychic benefit I get from knowing what my car COULD do if I wanted it to. Lots of toys are like that. Chacun a son gout.
I agree with you about the OP's cab, though. Just beautiful.
Ironically, what I'm talking about is actually more relevant to spirited driving on real, imperfect roads than it is to a nice, smooth track.
Anyhoo, your car is stunning.
Jerry,
actually I did read post 13 but there was no mention in that post or previous posts that your wheels are currently 18's (I cannot determine wheel size from a picture as I have tried that in the past but was wrong), there was just a mention of new 19's for DD.
So my response was what I recommend you do as that is what I am doing. But if you have already decided that 2 sets is not an option then you do have a dilemma that 2 sets would correct...IMHO
So use your current 18's for the track and street, just put spacers on them and forget about 19's for now.
Good luck with your decision.
BTW...contact Damon at the Tire Rack in regards to spacing if you still feel that the input from Tim and others has confused you in anyway. Damon hooked me up with my OZ's, but they are not cheap but are custom made to the car
Totally agree.
My OZ's are beautiful and the tyres (Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's) are great. But on the street where the road is not perfect at all for running such low sidewalls, I do have to be aware of the conditions of the road more than I would with 18's and larger sidewalls.
So for me I will be running 18's on the track so that I can experience more control with the tyres gripping than skipping.
Steven:
Ya and I miss read your post
I will have two sets of rims,
My current set which is 18
and a new set which will be ???
And yes Tim's info on figuring out my tire size will help.
I just need to get some more info on traction verses
understeer on the track in regards to width changes
Jerry
No prob Jerry.
I am going to use factory GT3 wheels on my NB for the track as they have the correct off-set and width I need (wider on the back than my current 19's).
hey speedy, do you have the specs for your oZs? width offsets? they're 11s in the back, no?
and yea, speedy's been thru this recently so he should be a much better resource than anyone else since he's gone thru it. his OZ 3s are the ****.
Front:
8.5x19 et54
Rear:
10x19 et65
11's they could not make with the Superleggera Black cneters, don't know why not but they didn't do it. I am running a narrow 275 on the rear currently, but I can see some room for me to go to 285 and possibly 295, but will only do that once the rears need replacing.
Jerry,
You can measure the available space on your current set up. Just use a plumb line and measure from the tire to the plumb line (see diagram), then subtract the width of the inside lip of the fender to get the net space available. Then you might want to allow for 4 to 5 mm as a "safety" factor.
gota911, yea that's a good look.
and honestly this 4-large guy... i have a feeling he did something totally inane and got a set of wheels like he didnt' read one word of anyone's advice here. hope not!
Tim
I have to say, having your info from your post helped when I was speaking with CCW!!
I just want you all to know that I did make a better informed choice based on this thread as well as some pm info
Thanks
Jerry
yea my bad did a search on google images and that's what it came up with.
honestly, i think the ccws look horrible including the c10s. yes yes beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but i gotta let it be known that i think it's a poor aesthetic choice.
good thing is, they'll fit right!
