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YOUR RESEARCHDrive 14hours in new used 996 without IMS Guardian? (would you?)
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enough "piece of mind"
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Reported cause
Over 100,000 other cars with nary an ims problem was enough "piece of mind" for me.
Drive 14hours in new used 996 without IMS Guardian? (would you?)
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Leading evidence: 'enough "piece of mind"' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'enough "piece of mind"' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Inspect with magnet and strong light' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
Pull just the oil filter and inspect with magnet and strong light for ferrous material.
Drive 14hours in new used 996 without IMS Guardian? (would you?)
Recommend given the low miles vs age of the car
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Suggestion
I recently acquired my 2004 996 and submitted a question to PCA asking what service they would recommend given the low miles vs age of the car.
Drive 14hours in new used 996 without IMS Guardian? (would you?)
Repair bills.....you'll be sleeping in it
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Suggestion
After you pay a few repair bills.....you'll be sleeping in it.
Drive 14hours in new used 996 without IMS Guardian? (would you?)
Replace bearing every 8 hours or so
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Suggestion
Once bitten, you realize why it's worth the hassle and expense of having to replace the bearing every 8 hours or so.
Drive 14hours in new used 996 without IMS Guardian? (would you?)
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Nothing's broke but the ash tray lid and I fixed it.
I'm looking at buying a 2003 996 C2 that's 14hours away. The car seems to be in great shape. Maintenance records are in tact, etc etc. The car has about 40k on the clock. My question is: would you be afraid to drive this car 14 hours without having the IMS Guardian warning system installed?
thoughts?
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
http://jmsmith.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/facepalm20collage203.jpg
http://3ch.ru/z/src/133340154767.jpg
Personally, I would drive it. As an owner who proactively replaced the IMS on mine at 42K, and subsequently found it to be in perfect condition, I would. Mine also had a solid maintenance history. If it has had regular oil changes, the IMS would be last of any concerns.
^^^^ Capt is funny!!!!
Yes, do it. Short of a retro fit on the IMS thats about the best you can you can hope for.
You are aware that thousands and thousands of these engines have never had even the slightest syptom of failure, right?
Oil changes have been done per the maintenance schedule. Wish it were more often. Yeah, I'm quite paranoid. I can afford the price of the car and am cool banking 5-6k for maintenance but, if that thing blew on the way home, I'd be toast (wife would de-nut me).
Car is a 2003 if that affects opinions.
Thanks for your input!
Jason
I know I know I know... part of my job description is "risk mitigation expert" at work... what can I say!
Again, I really do appreciate the insight and CANT FREAKING WAIT TO HAVE MY FIRST PORSCHE!!!!
Have them check the oil filter if you are worried, No oil leaks or issues than drive the car home with a smile.
I put many miles on my 996 before doing the IMS upgrade as have many of us here.
Relax, enjoy and welcome to Rennlist!
Love it. Capt, you rock! I have to assume you had the graphics stored for just this occasion.
Gr8hifi, once you get the PPI and buy, welcome to Porsche ownership. This is a great board and you're in good hands. Enjoy the drive!
You happened to ask a less than great question, but you seem sincere and use reasonable words in a sentence (despite the all caps in one of your posts), so I won't simply say, "use search function."
The IMS is a risk, not a certainty, in these cars. For that discussion you should use search. None of these cars "need" the Guardian system, although there are those that won't drive one without it. For every engine that blows, there are another 8-9 that don't (approximately; data not based upon rigorous investigation. Poster claims no accuracy). There's no way to know without a Guardian (sometimes even with) whether your IMS is about to go. Simple as that. You're taking a risk buying a car without the retrofit.
So, quantify your tolerance for that risk and go buy the car. If you hear a funny sound from your engine on the way home, pray that your cell phone's battery hasn't died.
Meanwhile, can we try to guess all of the faces on Capt's post there? I got Jean Luc Picard; Homer Simpson; Ms. Crabapple; and Jesus. And what I thought was Jon Stewart and an autobot. Prob a few more; I'm no Japanese Anime fan is the problem right there....
What MY is it ? I would get a good PPI that checks for any of they typical warning signs (search the threads lots of info). IMS guardian has a lot of suported here. For me, I would be more concerned about the basics you would want to check before a 14 hour drive (coolant, alignments, pumps, belts etc). Enjoy the ride !
Ok. Thanks for the helpful advice. I've been lurking for a while so I respect the opinions of the responders. I'll ask for a little extra inspection with regards to the oil during the PPI. If all is well, then I shall return to the board and try to ask less stupid questions with my new fantasy car in the garage.
Jason
Model year is a 2003.
Add to the statistics - purchased an 04 with 22k miles in 07. Put 50k miles on it so far including a 3k mile round trip shortly after I purchased it - still running with original IMS - stll own and still drive it
Purchased an 04 C4S with 23k miles in 10/2011. Intened to fly out and drive it home 3k miles, work life got in the way so had it shipped closed carrier. Drove it 1100 miles round trip in 11/2011, now have 32k miles on it - still running with original IMS - still own it and still drive it.
As others have suggested - do your due diligence including PPI - which anyone should do regardless of IMS fear.
PPI is no guarantee that a car won't have an issue, but there is never that guarantee. If it passes and the car seems like it is "your car" Drive it home and enjoy every moment of bliss.
I do not have Guardians - not IMS Guardians anyway
If you are that paranoid - and have budget for maintenance why not have local indie do clutch, IMSB, AOS, Water Pump etc. before you drive it so you have peace of mind .... probability of issue is very low (have them pulling Oil filter during PPI would give you even more confidence as stated above) - but yes it can happen and you seem to value your nuts ..... (if car was stored for long periods of time or oil changes were not frequent I might be a little bit more worried). The work might not be a bad investment for a good condition low mileage car at that age - but again - you can see from the reaction to your question - how divided the opinions are about this ......
I would not.....
IMSB issue for sure
The engine will explode in less then 5 hours drive....
A friend of mine told me that.....or maybe i read it somewhere....or maybe i just heard it.....or maybe my mechanic told me....
anyway i would not buy this car....a 14 hour drive...i would buy a Toyota....maybe not ...you know the brake or the gaz pedal.....
Robert
2000 C4
Robert
+1
If this thread has ANY merit then the 996 is complete $hit and Porsche should be out of business.
Really??? You cannot purchase a 996 and drive it home without 1st making serious preventative maint. Give me a f'ing break!!!
Do those of you who believe there has not been fear mongering here still believe this after reading this thread??????
If so, your choice of car shows that you have a serious lack of judgment.
Nice job Jake... Congrats!!!!!!!!
You could probably do 13 hours no problem. 13.5 hours if you want to push it a little. But, definitely not 14 hours or more. Now, if you drove 7 hours the first day, and then another 7 hours on day #2, you'll be good-to-go becuase the IMS does not keep track.
FYI I just picked up my 996 a few weeks ago drove 13.4 hours then had the damn IMS bearing fail..... Sike.... I just stopped for this awesome pic But seriously.. Buy and enjoy if you think it's to risky even after a good ppi don't do it. Simple as that.. No one here can tell you what to do with the "risk" placed on your bank acct.
I would suggest you get new ims bearing, guardian, new clutch, rms, tires, brakes, and possibly some snappy new rims before you drive it home. You may also want to hire an F1 support crew to follow you on the drive with a full mechanics truck and possibly a spare car on your drive home.
Or, simply hop in the car, and enjoy the 14 hour drive home in one of the best performance cars ever produced. Over 100,000 other cars with nary an ims problem was enough "piece of mind" for me. I drove 10 hours in a 99 from Chicago back east. Fantastic drive. Would do it again in a heartbeat.
When I bought my car in 07, I had no clue about the IMS scare, and let me tell you, I was more worried about some idiot hitting my car, than having a mechanical failure! Ignorance was bliss!
If the PPI checks out, just enjoy the ride home!
I was asking my service advisor at the local dealership about the prevelance of IMS engine failures in 996/986 cars. He said he would estimate 10% and his theory is the majority are cars that are seldom driven
If the car passes PPI, is up to your standards, has what you want, doesn't break your piggy bank...I would exchange $ for title, fill it with premium and start an adventure home in your new Porsche.
Wow, this board rocks. It's almost as fun as reading the drudge report and CNN back to back!
Anyway, I've emailed the seller letting them know that I'll be planning to purchase the car in the next week or so depending on how we can link our schedules. My other big fear is "do I park it at a hotel or drive it the whole way back?" ... anybody wanna hold my hand on the way : )
And, for what it's worth. I will put in the upgraded bearing once I do the clutch. I plan to do that much myself (when the time is right). I'm pretty mechanically inclined, this is just my first "real" piece of machinery so I'm just a touch nervous right now apparently thanks to what some are titling "fear-mongering."
We'll see how it goes. I'll post back what happens when the time comes.
Thanks again,
Jason
As has been stated already - 14 hours is *way* too long to be driving any M96 equipped automobile without first replacing the IMS bearing.
I think so far the record is only 8 hours before failure, and that was a special case where the car was being driven hard not soft as I expect you will be doing.
The good news is that the government is working on setting up a network of IMSB bearing replacement facilities along both major roads as well as some of the more enthusiast oriented roads throughout the nation.
The government is doing this because of the growing problem of disabled hulks lining the nation's roads and in many cases these hulks are blocking emergency routes.
It certainly makes you wonder why anyone would buy a modern Porsche - but that's only until you drive one. Once bitten, you realize why it's worth the hassle and expense of having to replace the bearing every 8 hours or so.
You've made a good choice - and it's a good thing you've put some money aside. I only budgeted enough for 3 IMSB replacement - and I used up almost all of my 24 hours of driving time within the first two weeks so now I've got a hulk in my garage which I can only drive for about one more hour, and that's not long enough to get me to the nearest IMSB replacement facility.
It's a real dilemma. Plan accordingly.
Don't forget to put band-aids on your fingers before you post. You never know when you might bruise your pinkie typing!
Kidding of course. Welcome to the forum and please enjoy your new toy.
After you park it and turn back to admire it (and you will), don't look at the car directly - use a mirror instead. It's much safer that way.
Welcome to the forum...you have been assimilated.
This thread reminds of the one a few month's back about Porsche's being safe to drive. I tried to find it in search but no luck. Remember the quip, "I'm too afraid to even sit in mine". That was hysterical!
I would worry much more about some other part of an 8 year old car that I didn't know having a problem or failing on a long drive than a very specific issue that only became an issue on a very small percentage of these cars. But if you are mechanically inclined, than you should be able to triage the issue on the side of the road assuming it is not anything too severe.
Who else
NEVER
thinks about their IMS when they are just out driving and enjoying their 996's?
Defo the way to go. Take a sleeping bag and kip in the car on the car park. lock the car from inside via a button on the dash. Don't worry about anyone stealing it. When a Porsche thief sees its a 996 he will probably say "f**k that, the engine will explode before I get off the car park" so you are safe. haha
Talk about a great theft deterrent system, thieves being too afraid to steal 996s due to fear of the engine exploding and leaving them easy pickings for the cops. LOL
You mean these things have two drain plugs???
Do they make guardians for the other parts of the car (transmission fluid, diff fluid, blinker fluid, etc?)
I drove my car from Lubbock Texas to Miami FL. It was a 3 days straight highway trip. The car drove like a charm, not a problem at all. Yes I have the original IMS.
This has got me thinking, should I let my wife drive her Boxster on the freeway? It's a '99, she's had it since '01 when it had less than 8k miles on it. It's on the original IMS, RMS, AOS and all that other stuff. I forgot these cars are a ticking time bomb. Should I tell her? Hummmm... maybe I should run the car by the dealer and let them have a look see. Nobody's put a hand on this car except me since it went off warranty in '02. Nothing's broke but the ash tray lid and I fixed it. Heck, that was 10 years ago. This is getting really scary! I won't tell her, she's got a cell phone and I'll get a call if one of her cars even hiccups.
I am a relative newcomer coming over from the aircooled world, and am not trying to hijack this thread, however, I would like to provide the counterpoint on this issue regarding the "risk" of IMS failure (maybe in support of OP's question?). I recently acquired my 2004 996 and submitted a question to PCA asking what service they would recommend given the low miles vs age of the car.
After providing info on routine maintenance issues, they added "To that I would add that you need the LN Engineering IMS Bearing Retrofit Kit. We have been losing some engines, and replacement engines are very expensive now, so this is a MUST" (their emphasis on the word MUST).
This certainly caught my attention and being a person who wants my P-car to perform its best, and believes preventative maintenance is a large part of that(as most of us on these boards) I began the mental debate of how far should I drive, how long should I wait vs the potential risk of damage (and higher cost) before having the retrofit kit installed. I still don't know the answer to that question. I am not trying to spend money needlessly, however I tend to respect the advice of PCA as I do the members of this forum. So for every story about the risk being low, there is probably another saying "don't risk it". Maybe some real empirical data would be helpful, but I suspect it is not available since the cause and effect is not always associated and Porsche is proabably not interested in advertising the extent of the problem. Sorry for being so long winded.
Most will choose to do the retrofit when you need a clutch. The labor is the same as installing a clutch so just do the IMS and RMS at the same time. How many miles does your car have? Have you installed a new clutch yet? Also we need to see pictures of your car so get them up quickly.
Does the PCA even know that the 996 exists? No mention of a 996 on their PCA shirt at this years Hershey Swap Meet. So take what they say with a 'pinch of salt'. They are trying to cover their bases and anyone who reads this forum can make that suggestion.
My point would be that the PCA representative that wrote the quote is just another enthusiast with an opinion - they have no more greater authority on the matter than many of the rest of us.
I think wellardmac is correct but on the other hand I don't think the PCA gave you bad advice. You have a very low mileage car and will need to make your own decision on when you want to do the retrofit. Weather that be now or later when you get a clutch. Unfortunatley there is really no set number of miles or time that is generally recognized as the time for the new bearing. Some will say do it now no matter what an others will say wait. Ultimately it will be whatever makes you comfortable. I got mine done at 62k with a clutch. Nice cab by the way and welcome to the group. Is that meridian metallic? Looks similar to my color.
Thanks for the welcome. This forum has been a wealth of knowledge in learning about the car. I previousy had a very nice '88 Targa which was great, but this car is unbelievable. I believe the color is called seal gray. I would be remiss if I didn't mention how impressed I am by some of the work I have seen done by forum members, including some home garage IMS retrofits. Very impressive.
