911s & Kids in the Back Seat.....Help!

Hey everyone, At present I have one 5 year old child and drive a 2000 Corvette Convertible. Love the car, but have had little issues with a 3 person family and a 2 seat car (SUV is our family car). Now we have decided to adopt a 12-15 month old child from Russia, and the Corvette has to go. Naturally, the first car that comes to mind is a 996 Cab, and I can swing the $$ for a '02 Cab even with the $35k or so we are spending on the adoption. Now the hard part. Test drove a nice '02 Cab at Advantage Porsche here in H-Town. The 5 year old fit fine, but when we put in a car seat (behind the passenger seat) to simulate an infant my wife became quite cramped. The question is I'm sure there is a way to get all 4 of us into the car somewhat comfortably, and I'd like to know what brands of car seats you folks use that might be smaller than our test model. Or are there any modifications that you can do to reduce the length of the car seat? Looking at ours, I think I could grind off 1-1.5 inches of plastic that really doesn't serve a purpose. The other cars under consideration are the M3 conv (which is a blast to drive, but isn't a true sports car) and the Audi S4 cab, which is a problem since they were just introduced last year and the depreciation hit would be severe. Shark

Well I have to say that a baby seat in the back will cause a problem for your wife in the front seat, I did this exact test when my daughter was about 1 1/2 old (she's now 3). The cab is going to be tight until your youngest can sit in a booster seat. Rob

You pretty much need the booster seat. When I got my 996 coupe I tried our Britax seat in the back but it made it too tight of a fit for the front seat passenger. I imagine it would only be worse with cab.

Thanks for the replies, I understand that you can't legally put a 12 mo old in a booster seat, they must be in a rear facing standard car seat correct? Thanks, Keep 'em coming

I'm sure that is probably correct. I think they need to be a certain height (around 40") and certain weight (around 30 lbs). My daughter, who is just about 3 has only just started sitting in a booster in the past couple of months. Sorry. Have you checked with a Porsche dealer about options they might offer? Or you could consider a Cayenne? Haven't driven one myself but I here they're pretty good. Another suggestion, I had a Saab 93 Viggen Convertible which was a pretty sporty little car. Wasn't on par with the Porsche but still plenty of fun. Our car seat fit back there with no problem even when it was rear facing.

Porsche makes car seats especially for this reason. They curve in at the top more than the typical seat. They have seats for all ages. They are more expensive but they work. I have three (two for the back and one for the front with the airbag deactivation bar). See your Porsche dealer. P.S. The cab has the absolute worst rear seats of all 911s since they incline forward at the top. Consider getting a Targa instead, which has a hatch back that makes it easier to access the rear seats.

I second TD in DC observations. I have a coupe. I was able to use a Britax Roundabout seat in the forward facing position in the rear, albeit the front passenger lost about 3 to 5 inches of comfort. Rear facing in the back seat is possible with no front passenger. When my son was ready for a booster seat, I tried a few and actually ended up with a Graco Turbobooster. One thing that sucks about booster seats in the 911's is that since the rear seats are very straight, when little ones fall asleep they tend to lean forward, and don't appear to be in a safe position IMHO. So try different ones not just for fit within the car, but for fit of your children in them. IMHO I would consider a cab for much older kids (5 yrs or more), who can use a small cushion booster or none at all. But don't let our opinions discourage you from getting a 911. I bought one because I wanted to share my dream with my family. And in my opinion a 911 is the ultimate family car.

My kids are 8 and 6, we all four ride in comfort, no issues. The kids actually prefer it to my wife's Expedition. Get the porsche car seat, it's the only one that really fits well. Why not just get an SUV for your wife, like the rest of us?

Ekename, Thanks for proposing some alternates, but first and foremost we all want a cabriolet. Now although there are cheaper "beater" convertibles out there (Mustang Cobra, regular 3 series, CLK320, Volvo, Saab, etc.), like I told the Porsche salesguy today "I want to replace my Corvette without losing ANYTHING" (OK, I do give up trunk room for golf clubs). I've even considered buying a really cheap beater convertible (ie Chrysler Sebring) and keeping the Corvette for Fridays only, but logically that doesn't make good sense, plus putting up with a beater 4 days a week would be frustrating. I'm thankful there are cars out there like the M3 & S4 that work very hard trying to be sportscars and come pretty darn close. But the only real replacement for a Corvette in terms of performance and heritage that has 4 seats and is under $100k is a 911. I'm sure all of you feel very fulfilled car-wise driving home every night.

On the Porsche seats, the dealer is getting some dimensions for me next week. I went to Babies-R-Us tonight and measured all their car sets vs. the dimensions I took at the dealer. I hope the Porsche seats are designed a little more efficiently. I didn't care for the Targa as compared to the cab, just not enough exposure to the elements for us. Fast 40th, we bought the same Graco booster for our 5 year old tonight for the SUV, what is it they say about twisted minds thinking alike C4S Surgeon, yeah the wife has a Lexus RX-300 so the primary people mover is set. This car would be my daily driver, taking the kids to school/day care, and cruising with the family on weekends or weekend getaways. Its great to hear that older kids can ride in comfort, but my wife wants to adopt a baby.

I have similar concerns with a 3 y/o and another on the way. But my wife fits OK in the front with my 3 y/o behind her. Adding an infant will be difficult if we are all in the car. However, for all four of us we would just use my wife's Cayenne S and, if its just me and two kids, I will put one in the front seat with the airbag deactivation. What does your wife drive? BTW, the Porsche mid-size car seat IMO does not fit well at all in the back seat and, unless you need the Porsche airbag deactivation seat for the front, I would not recommend the Porsche mid-size seat. In fact, I plan to make a trip to Babys R Us or something similar soon so I can take samples out to my car and try to find something that works better (I have the Porsche mid-size seat now).

Shark, I don't blame you for not wanting to compromise. I traded in my Saab the same day I drove my Porsche for the first time. There really is no subsitute. I hope you can find some sort of arrangement that work for you. Cheers mate.

Not sure I'd want my kids THAT exposed to the elements if we had a bad wreck IMHO, but to each his own... My 18mo old fits fine in the back of my coupe in a Britax seat. The car is pretty functional and safe (not a big fan of rear facing in the front seat) once you can turn the seat around to where it is forward facing. Sounds like a similar dilema a lot of us are in... just keep your kids' safety as your first priority...

Itradem, The car seems fairly safe for rear seat occupants, with all the active (psm, traction control, good handling and braking) and passive (pop-up bars) safety features. Is this a dangerous car for kids?

My kids have been riding in the back of the Porsche most/ all of their lives. I used the Porsche car seat and various other infant seats- most will fit in the rear no problem. You can also stow a fold up lightweight stroller easily on the shelf behind the rear seats. Now the boys are 5-7 years old and they don't need much more than a booster, if at all.

Doug, How did they do when they were younger? Did you ever have to do the rear facing baby seat in the back with 4 people on board? Thanks

I bought a 996 cab 2 weeks ago and have one 5 year old and one 6 months old. The Graco turbobooster does not fit in my car very well, its too wide. I am looking at getting a more narrow booster (the Cosco one is 1 inch more narrow) and the Porsche one for more younger kid. http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalo...sche_cars.html /d

Dan, Your kids are the exact fit for what we are trying to do. If you don't mind, I'd like to PM you in a couple of weeks to check out how the fit is working. Are you setting up for both kids to ride in the back? On the Graco, is there any way to elevate it an inch or two to buy more room (as the angled slant in the seat opens up)?

Shark, we used a rear infant seat when there were only 3 of us, by the time his little brother came along we had the middle size Porsche child seat. All 4 of us fit, albeit slightly cramped, using 2 regular car seats, luckily they grow up fast. But, many a time I have taken the 2 boys with me on a little road trip in their car seats, no problem.

Shark, I think the 996 cab is probably one of the safest convertibles you can have from a technological standpoint. I may just be a wuss here, but I would not want my kids to be in the backseat of a convertible with the top down, and have a rollover accident. The pop-up restraints would likely keep anyone from being crushed, but there could be lots of other debris flying around that you are totally exposed to... BTW, I bought my C2 coupe for the exact same reasons you are talking about, and my wife and I gave up a convertible... at least for a long while. My daughter loves riding in the p-car.

I second itradem's opinions. Convertibles are wonderful cars, and P-car convertibles are the best. But over the years, after seeing many terrible accidents, losing friends to accidents (not for speeding & not their fault) and such, I feel that any additional level of safety offered in a P-car coupe, to protect my loved ones, is a well worth compromise over open top enjoyment. Hence why I ended up with a coupe. SharK: If I still haven't scared you away from a cabriolet , You may want to check a 997 cabriolet, since I understand these will come equipped with additional side impact airbags, not available in the 996 cabs. Just my 2 pennies.

Seconded; I sold my Cab in '01 for the same reason. The Coupe works out better for multiple forward facers. The Porsche rear facer in front with de-activation bar still puts the wife in the back seat to glare at you directly or indirectly through the rear view mirror.

Like to add my agreement with the last speakers! I'm currently driving a 997 coupe. The cab was out for two reasons: 1. Open top safety (not only during roll over, it is also a big attraction for kids to stick out arms and heads and so on. I know, safety is relative), 2. Functionality of the rear seats. I have four kids. The younger two are not allowed yet in the P-car beyond our street, they are almost three. The other two (6 and 9) sit perfectly without booster in the rear seats, even on trips longer than 2 hours. They feel so comfortable in the rear seats that they start to ask about movies and so on..... The mid rear console is a perfect design for the tired heads. I also considered the M3 (cab and no cab) and the S4 (cab and no cab). I also came out of a Corvette. So, pretty close in the same boat. After sitting and driving everything, the decision was made. My advise: take the decision to leave the idea for the cab for a few years, you will enjoy the coupe. Let me know if you like to see how things fit. I'm in H-town too.

Wow, this conversation is going into unexpected places Honestly, for me one of the covenants of being a true sportscar is the open air experience. If a 911 coupe was my only option, I'd get a pick-up truck like everyone else in Texas I think this car in a cab would be much safer than small coupes, like a Mini for example. The car has many safety features, has a low CG to prevent rollovers, and the rear seats are set so deep that I don't think kids could stick out hands or heads. Unfortunately I'm not hearing much positive about getting 4 people in the car if one has to be in a rear facing carseat Other than the guy who suggested the wife sit in back.....she was none too happy reading that If anybody else has any experience at shoe-horning kids into the back I'd be glad to listen

I still think that you may be discounting the Targa unnecessarily. Take it for a longer testdrive. It seems a lot more open than you might expect, and it would be an even better solution than the coupe in light of the rear hatch. It is ideal for 911 owners who need to haul kids around.

Shark. Congrats on the adoption. A couple from our church adopted a baby from the Ukraine I think. BTW - great thread. I'm reading in anticipation of the same hurdle.

TD, Is the rear seating area actually larger in the Targa as opposed to the cab? Our basic problem is that to put in a rear-facing childseat, my wife is practically impailed on the dashboard......remember that scene from Braveheart And I'm not sure changing to a Targa or coupe solves that problem, or does it? nota_troll......thanks for the good wishes. There are an estimated 1,000,000 orphaned children in Eastern Europe with governments far less able to support them than ours. Our 5 year old Katerina (from Kemerovo in Siberia) is a wonderful child to parent, makes these car issues trivial......of course there is that Ferrari Mondial cab from the late 80s with a rear seat

OK, if space is your only consideration and it needs to be a fast cab, you need to check out the S4 at the same dealer, if that doesn't work, you need indeed to consider a pickup. The interior rear space of the M3 is not much better or even smaller than the 911. Last week I had 4 kids in the P-car. One (12) on the front seat and three (6, 9, 9) in the rear seats. They had a great time for half a mile.

Shark, YES, absolutely the usable rear seating area is LARGER in a Targa (which is the same as a Coupe) than in a Cab. The problem is that, due to the retractable roof, the rear seats on a Cab tilt forward at the top, which causes babyseats a big, big problem. The rear seats in a Targa do not incline forward, and thus you can fit a baby seat in much easier, and still have room for your wife in the front. I have done it before. In this regard, the Targa and the Coupe share the same advantage, a big one if you need to haul kids, over the Cab. The Targa has an advantage over the coupe because there is a hatchback, so you can actually access the rear area more easily and use the space either for storage or to drop the babyseats in from the top. In other words, it is much easier to deal with the logistics of the babyseats, including attaching the rear harness strap to the back, which I imagine would be difficult without the hatchback. Finally, the Targa is a nice compromise between the convertible and the coupe. It really is much more open than you might imagine (I moved from a Boxster S to a Targa). I now like it even more than a Cab because it remains light and airy even when the top must be up due to rain, snow or cold weather. Seriously, the Targa is a good option for the needs you have articulated. Take one for a longer testdrive and play around with the top (It is also great for kids because you can put it up or take it down without slowing down -- I have done it at triple digit speeds). In short, try it, you'll like it. TD

PV, I take it you live in Houston also since you know that dealer also has Audis I actually took measurements to establish rear seat sizes for the following cars for comparison: 996 993 M3 S4 Lexus AC 430 MB 430 Volvo C70 Jaguar XK8 The smallest back seat belongs to the Jag & Lexus, while the Volvo & CLK had the largest. The M3 and S4 were within 0.25 inches of each other, and 2.5 inches longer than the 996. For comparison, my wife's Lexus RX-330 rear seat is 6 inches longer than the 996. You should have see the looks on the salesguys faces "sir, can I show you a car today"...."Nah, just here to take some measurements" So yes, the M3 or S4 does not buy much additional legroom. Damn, I'm starting to get so **** about this that I'm thinking of designing my own car seat Fabricate from aluminum, E=MC^2, Newtons 2nd law, have child fold legs like a pretzel......yep it fits TD, There are 3 parts of the rear seat as I see it, the seat bottom, the carpeted mid-area that is part of the rear firewall, and the upper part that folds down in a cab to make a golf club shelf. The way I understand your explanation is that the upper part in a cab tilts forward some. While I was test-fitting the car seat into the cab (rear facing, so the back of the car seat fits flush against the rear of the passenger seat, and the baby faces the rear of the car) I actually thought of removing the upper part of the rear seat altogether (should be easy since it is hinged). The problem is I'm not sure that the baby's feet wouldn't be elevated enough to make the removal matter. I may take the seat back to the dealer and measure that out again. In any event, I may see if a dealer in town has a Targa I can measure.

PV and Shark. I have an M3 with a Cosco forward seat. The rear is 'commodious' for a coupe. Having said that I wish I had a 996 to shoehorn my family into.

Greg's baby seat how to

First, none of the dealers in town has a Targa for sale and they claim they only see 1-2 per year so that is out. At lunch today I went and looked closely at the cab seats. It does appear like both the upper seat pad and the lumbar area located pad can be removed which would save 2". Along with shaving an inch of useless plastic of the back of the car seat would now make the 996 rear seating area longer in leg room than any other import cab I've measured. Next step is to find a baby to measure leg length from the back to the knees and knees to bottom of feet to see how far the legs would protrude from the car seat. "Maam, can I measure your baby?"....Is that how Michael Jackson started out

May I request pics of this setup? My wife is due in Sept. with our first. I am quite interested in this. Chad

Hey Shark, My wife is a prodigious record keeper and I bet we have measurements for our youngest from all of her various well-baby check-ups. If you really want some baby measurements I'll get her to find ours for you.

Congratulations on your upcoming arrival! You're in for a lot of fun. I was really nervous when we had our first but I love being a Dad. Tim

Ekename, Yes, I'd appreciate any information you have You can reach me at [email removed] Thanks!

Thanks for confirming those numbers of the S4, M3 and 996. I tried to find them via the manufacturers without success. I didn't measure, but indeed created some interesting faces when I stepped into the dealships with a couple of kids and let them disappear into the rear seats. I checked almost the same list, except the Lexus. Yes, indeed in H-town.

I bet there is a internet forum with all the details discussed off every bone :-)))

Congratulations! Wanna trade cars? Clarity is a little off b/c I had to resize but you get the idea.

The dealer has confirmed that the seatbacks are easily removable, and will get you an extra 2" of leg room for a front seat passenger I think other than grinding excess plastic off the back of the seat, it won't get any better Does anyone have dimensions (length & width) for the Porsche car seats? Neither of the two dealers in town can get measurements from the factory

Shark, You might want to double check that the seat will still be stable once you remove the seat backs. I had the same thought on my coupe, and it did significantly improve the distance between the back of the front seat and the front of the child seat. The problem I had was with the tether strap. My Britax Roundabout install was MUCH more stable when I installed the seat with the seat backs on, AND used the tether strap to the rear deck connection point. Use of the tether strap was key to a solid install in a coupe IMHO. When I removed the rear seatbacks, I couldn't succesfully use the tether strap... it would simply pull the top of the child seat back because there were no seat backs to prevent this tilting... I'd prefer the no seat back approach, but I could not get it to work. This may not be an issue with a cab, but just keep this in mind and let us know what you find. Also, I'd say that you will need ~6-12 inches between the front seat back and the front lip of the child seat at a minimum...

have you considered a Targa? I know a guy in Seattl that has two kids in Recaro carseats in the back which works fine.

Itradem, You bring up some good points. When you had trouble with stability once the seat back was removed were you using a rear or forward facing seat? Yes, the use of tethers is important for seat fit. Where is the rear deck tether connection located? Still having a hard time figuring why the baby seat was unstable just because the seatback was removed. Depending on the age of the child I agree with the 6" spacing

OK, after a week of seeking out and measuring car seats I bought the smallest I could find, a Cosco from Walmart ($40). Took it to dealers of both cars I'm looking at, a 996 & BMW M3 and the observations are: M3: Easy fit, no trouble with the wife being comfortable. 996: The first thing the salesguy did was remove the lumbar-located pad and seat bottom (both are velcro'ed on). Understanding that removing the upper back seat will free up another 2" we jammed the car seat against the rear seat back. The wife was a more cramped than with the BMW but feels for weekend fun stuff she would be OK. So bottom line we feel we can all fit into the car Now have to decide WHAT to buy and WHEN. Thanks for everyone's input on this

Good one Shark! Be sure to post some pics once you get the car!