Just had 45k mile service done, need rear tires

Brought the car down to a local mechanic that one of the guys on the board raves about. Everything checked out great, except my rears are apparently shot. The right rear in particular, to the point where cord is starting to show on the inside. My question is, I currently have Toyo 285s (i cant recall the exact model right now) on the rear, with matching 225s up front. I know the rears are prone to wear faster, but will I burn through another new set of rears before the fronts need attention? I don't really want to stick with the Toyos mainly for the price. At about $300/tire, it's expensive. I remember hearing good things about the Sumi Z III's, but is it dangerous to mix and match brands? I was supposed to pick the car up today, but if it's as warn as they say, I may leave it for another day or two until they can replace em. Otherwise I'll have 100 or so highway miles before I can get it back to the shop. Any advice? And can I up it to 295's in the rear? I think 235/295 fit, and was thinking of going up to that, but would it make more sense to get 295s now, or 285s again and when I replace all 4 up the size? edit: Car is my DD. Will never see a track or autox. I'm aware I'll need winter wheels/tires still, since I doubt any all seasons will give me what I want in warm or cold weather.

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Get new rear tires, to match the fronts, and have car properly aligned by a shop that knows these cars. Proper alignment critical for maximizing tire life. Based on my experience with N-rated tires (have never used non N-rated tires on my Porsches) by time rear tires worn and need to be replaced fronts will be very close to needing replacement, in fact close enough. I get 2 sets of rear tires for every set of fronts. While the fronts don't wear out they get very hard as they wear and are heat cycled and they get noisy, very noisy. Pirelli tires worse than Michelin tires in this regard is my experience. When time to replace all 4 tires then you can switch to another brand/type. I prefer N-rated tires -- Pirelli, Michelin, and my Turbo has Contis -- but some swear by other non N-rate brands of tires. Sincerely, Macster.

Never mix tires on a perfomance sports car.

Listen, your car is a DD, mixing tires will mess up the handling but unless you regularly push it past 7/10 it won't matter a whole lot. Which is not to say it won't behave differently but for going to work the only thing you'll notice is that they're quieter and maybe the ride is a bit softer/harder. It would be fine to switch to whatever you like in the rear while you wait for the fronts to wear enough to warrant replacing them.

Even just being a DD, I don't want to negatively effect handling at all. It's not worth saving a couple bucks if the cars going to ride funny or make me not feel confident on the road. So it sounds like if the fronts have enough life in them for another set of rears, buy matching rears? What type of mileage do you realistically see on a DD car? Ive heard as bad as 7k for rear tires (Ive put on about 6.5-7 since getting it bc of the drive home) to numbers in the 10-20k range. I just dont want to buy matching rears for the front to need replacing in 2-3k miles while rears still look brand new edit: Also, for those of you who have recommended the Sumi HTRZ III tires, would it make more sense for me to get 4 new Sumi's in place of the Toyo's on my car? Sounds like 2 rear Toyo's will be 600, and that's about what the Sumi's look to be (maybe 650 after shipping). Are toyo's a superior tire?

Scott, A full set of Sumi III fronts and rears will cost around $700 plus installation. Your Toyo rear replacement will cost $600 for the pair. Sell your current front Toyos used for $100 for the pair and take care of the problem this way.

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Haha good timing. I was just adding that option in. Were you telling me I can run 235/295 w/o trouble? I threw those in the cart at tirerack, and I got some error about load being too high.

The original owner of my 99 Porsche put N rated Dunlaps @ 27,000 miles. I bought the car with 35,000 miles from owner #2 with the same Dunlops. I put on rear Sumitomos @ 45,000 miles and the Dunlops on the front are still running with lots of tread left. I don't track , but do drive vigorously and have not experienced any handling issues.

I see no problem whatsoever with mixing tires on a DD as long as it's one pair in the front and another pair in the rear. Remember we can't rotate em. Saying that all 4 tires have to match perfectly is nonsense.

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Thats good to know. If the fronts are still perfect, maybe I'll try out the rear Sumi's and if that works I'll run that setup until it's time for all 4 to change out. I decided to leave the car at the shop for the night because I have to look at apartments in an hour and don't want to be flying up and down the highway if the rear tire is really to the point that they say. I have them checking out prices on the Sumi's too. Think I should stick with the 285's in the rear then if I do end up keeping the 225s up front (if theyre good)?

Ive been changing my own tires for years. unless you have AWD you can run different brands front/rear just not side/side. (duh). I think ANY Porsche driver would say to not drive on less than 4/32nds. let alone cords. I have hydroplaned with 4-5 32nds on the rear. danger will Robinson!!!

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I agree! +1

oh yeah, sumitomo HTR's are decent tires for DD but poor for autox. I have Kuhmo XS's now. (I dont put too many miles on her at once, {since these arnt high mileage tires})

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I run those sizes on my car and no rubbing issues. Just more grip.

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Sticking with 285s is a good bet for a DD. And I will be changing to the Sumi's myself in about 5k miles. Driving the tire until the cords begin to show in the corner is ok. It's almost always the inside corner b/c of the stock set-up. That's what I do, unless some other issue pops up prematurely.

i have the sumi's on my street car. if that is all the car is going to be used for, they are acceptable. would rather have yokohama es100 if they are still available. tire wear 2:1. although with a really good alignment and proper tire pressure, i've already gotten my 87 carrera's ration to just about 1:1. damn, i wish i had that car back.

If you're not going to get N-spec tires, I'd go for the HTRZ3s, a good tire wear alignment, and call it a day

I've mixed tires on plenty of performance cars, for a dd not a problem. I don't like the Sumis. Try some Falken 452s, Azenis, even the Ziex 912s aren't bad, grassroots gave the 912s a good review for the $, I have them on the front of my TT and Michelin PS on the back. I had some good luck with Hankook too.

I have the Sumitomo HTR ZIIIs on my car. It is my DD. I do plan to autocross it, but I haven't yet had the opportunity. After approximately 5,000 miles on them as a DD, I am very pleased. They are not as noisy as the Pirelli P-Zeros that they replaced, and they seem to be showing good tread life so far - not any real noticable signs of wear. I'll look them over more closely when I put my snow tires and wheels on in about 2 months. If I were making this choice, I'd buy a new set of four Sumis and be done with it.

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Thanks. Yeah that's what happened. It just started to show on the inside corner of the right rear tire. I think that's what I'm going to do. I wanted to get an alignment done anyway, so I guess this is a good excuse to finally do it. Sounds good that other people are using the Sumis. Im going to call the shop in a few minutes and see what they say about pricing. Hopefully they can get it for close to what tirerack does, because I'd love to have this taken care of by tomorrow. Kinda need the car over the weekend.

I guess Toyo's have run up in cost. A little less than two years ago I had a full set installed for about $800 total. If you want to extend the life of your rears get symmetrical tires and swap the rears after a year of use.

I actually drove over to the Tirerack store in South Bend, IN to have my Sumis put on. It's only about 40 - 50 miles from my house. As I recall, it was only a little more than $600 to have them installed. Here are a few camera phone pics:

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Alright got through to the shop. Have them check the fronts. They're getting low too. They estimated ~3k miles, maybe 5k. I told them to order up all 4 tires. They can't get the tires in until Monday, so I'm picking the car up tonight and going to use it as little as necessary til then. I'll also double check that the fronts are on their way out. Price was good. Came out basically the same as I could find them online but including mount/balance. Are normal porsche alignments specs fine for the street? I saw some old threads, but it was mixed with different suspensions. I just have the basic suspension bc I dont remember seeing anything about the m030 when I checked the option codes Very nice. I wish I was that close to them. Tack on shipping and that's pretty much what I'm paying.

mostly DD ? +1 for pick up 4 HTR ZIII's !! I have these and I think they are fine thru the cones as well as a DD - yea theu are not super grip... but for the minute and a half run time of an autocross I can live with a little squeal and slip... they rock on the road to work ! quit screwing around and push the buy button!! Takes a week to ship and install - HURRY !! hahaha

It's nice to have them so close. The warehouse is absolutely enormous. They also have a very nice autocross track at the facility to test tires, and to hold autocross events. Many of the local clubs use the facility.

SKooT1027, I saw a post that you were looking at a Texas car some months back. Was this a white cab with brown interior from Monroe Motors?

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That's the car. Guys at Monroe were great. Drive home was fun, but wish I had time to stop and enjoy it. Did it in 2 days.

Apologies for intruding into your thread Skoot. I am in pretty much the same situation - will need new tires soon. The car is currently on Michelin Pilot Sport's and I am not sure what to replace them with. I want to stick with a reputable brand. I am contemplating between ContiSportContact 2's, Michelin PS Rib, and Yokos AD07/AD08 (all at about $1K). The disadvantage of the Yokos is that they are not N-rated and their treadwear rating is lower (180 v/s 280). On the other hand, I have read very good reviews about them. What would you recommend? If I ever track my car, which of those would fare better (in terms of durability mainly)? P.S. Despite their low price and good comments, I would stay away from the Sumitomo's, as well as any other budget brand. Especially in a 180-mph car! There is much more to tires that a fancy tread pattern... JM2c$

The Sumitomos don't have a fancy tread pattern at all. It's actually somewhat conservative - moreso than the Yokohama AD07 or AD08. If you're worried about the implications of buying a less expensive tire, then I'd stick with N-spec tires. Here's what the Sumitomos look like (from the Tirerack.com site):

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Scott, Call Glenn and ask when he will have my winter tires on your car done. He is working my my wife's pathfinder today and did not get around to my Pcar's oil change. He will be busy with the pathfinder... Sumitomo is owned by Dunlop. If you look at the tread pattern, they are from Dunlop summer tire tread pattern. Do a little bit of research on the 996 and 993 board.

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Alright I'll give him a call in a few. I expect to get there around 530 so hopefully they're on by then. Thanks again! What happened to the pathfinder?

I'm the guy who had it Park Place and got the PPI. According to the dealer it needed over $4000 of work including the RMS. I was working with them to make some of the repairs when they suddenly said the car was not available. I said why not and they said Manheim was supposed to disclose all problems and this one had so many issues that they turned it back in to them. I pressed them on this shaky story and said "you sold it elsewhere right while we were negtiating" and they said absolutely not--no way. I was furious with them for lying to me outright and not even offering to reimburse me for the PPI. If we didn't have a final deal I guess it's fine for them to sell it elsewhere but they didn't handle it right. I'm sure they didn't give you the same PPI and I know Park Place wouldn't have either after I paid for it. Of course, I bear no ill will toward you at all and hope the car is great for you for many years to come but those Monroe guys are liars and unethical. I hope others beware

Just top clarify it was Monroe who I was negotitating with and they were the snakes--not Park Place who is servicing the car I ended up buying and has been great.

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Sorry to hear that. They mentioned someone else had taken it in a day or two earlier for a PPI, but had not put a deposit. I asked what their process was, and they said that a few people have been interested in the car but no one was able to secure financing, and that it's available until someone leaves a deposit. I do believe the part about the financing tho b/c I was able to push them pretty hard on the price and they still accepted my offer. All Park Place mentioned was that the car had been in for a PPI. I asked if they could tell me anything and they said little more than that the car looked clean and there was nothing major being hidden. I don't recall if it was Monroe or Park Place that told me the front pads needed replacing - I think it was Monroe and Park Place confirmed. Given the mileage of the car, part of my negotiations was that I wanted the clutch replaced along with RMS, IMS, and anything little that gets done while you're in there. Took a bit of persistence, and I had to stay on top of them, but they ended up covering the entire bill. Came out in the $2-3k range at another local shop, not a dealer. I don't think they expected it to be that high. Sorry to hear they weren't even honest with you, tho. I really have to say the experience I had with them was by far the best I've had dealing with anyone selling a car. They were slow at getting some things done, but thats about the only negative I can say for them on my side.

That's all "technically" accurate. Finance was not an issue with me as it was a cash deal. Following month I did a cash deal with a guy in Virginia. Like I said, for them selling to someone else, they could have just handled it differently and I was asking for the same thing--for them to cover the repairs. Yes on break pads, clutch, RMS I believe there was an issue with the left or right door handle? and various missing interior parts, jack, spare and tools. And yes, $2-3 at an indy is equivalent to $4 at park place. Again, congrats on the purchase and I'm glad your experience was good. Wish they had just told me they were working another deal instead of stringing me along.

Meant "fine for them selling to someone else"

Glenn looked at your car and said that the car was never in an accident and in good shape. RMS was not repaired correctly or never repaired. Because of this, I am suspect about your clutch being replaced. Only front brake pads were replaced. Rear pads will need replacing at some point. Wait until the light comes on your dash. Good news is that you have a clean car. Bad news is that you may have some maintainance to take care of down the road.

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Hey Chao. That's very good to hear! Yeah he mentioned that the RMS had a slow seep again. I'm very surprised by this. I have the receipts from the shop down in TX, so I do trust that it was done, but apparently the RMS was done wrong. Glenn didn't seem too worried about it, but I'd expect it to be dry after only 6-7k miles. Only the front pads were what I was told and told the shop to do. They were in need of changing, where I guess the rears still had some life left. Yeah Ill wait for the light. I'll have him keep an eye on the RMS each time I bring it in. If for some reason that shop really didn't do the job, I'll deal with it when the time comes. Glenn's still usually around at 530 or so, right? Thats about when I expect to get there, maybe a few mins earlier Yeah there are some odds and ends trim pieces broken or missing. I meant to get them all right after getting the car, but put it off. I'll take care of that in the near future. It's nothing serious. One piece of the brushed trim thats by the door (like a 2" piece) isnt there, along with one of the side seat control plastics and another random plastic piece or two. Nothing more than minor cosmetics

Glenn is around until 6 or 6:30 today fixing the pathfinder brakes. I will take the RMS comment offline. BTW, Glenn said that you don't need an alignment as the wear on the tires appear to be worn evenly. Are you experiencing something different? I would wait until the new tires are on the car before doing an alignment. Look at your old tires for uneven wear pattern before wasting money on an alignment.

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Oh thats even better. No I just dont know when the car was last aligned, and I figure if I'm putting new tires on all around I might as well make sure it's set up properly. I have no complains with how it's riding right now. I was basically going to ask him to align it if it looked like it was necessary. When you change wheel sizes, do you need to realign? I figure I'll pick up some 17" with snows for the winter. I dont think it'd be necessary, but I cant remember

I was told that you don't need to realign when dropping down wheel size. When I was looking into getting 19" at some point and keeping 18" as winter, I was told that a realignment is necessary for going up in wheel size but not for going down. Perhaps others can chime in.

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I disagree to an extent here. I'm not going to say you can never mix/match (I've done it myself before), but you must be aware that it will make the handling unpredictable. 364 days out of the year, you'll never notice a lick of difference... until you have to make a panic stop and actually need 10/10 of those tires, and THEN find the difference. The risk here is that by having different tires on the front than the back, each of the tires can have significantly different characteristics. Meaning that your car will alternately understeer or oversteer depending on the conditions, which can be quite dangerous as a DD. Worst-case is mixing high-grip summer tires with all-seasons, which can have very drastic consequences. Having very grippy front tires with not-so-grippy rear tires on a rear-engine car is just begging for oversteer. And you have to further compare this for dry, for hot, for cold, for wet, etc- you really don't want to be in a position where you're used to safe predictable understeer, but depending on the weather, you may take a corner a bit too fast and suddenly find yourself driving tail-first... Hopefully, you have PSM, but PSM can only do so much. That said, I don't see a whole lot of risk in putting on comparable summer tires with comparable wet and dry grip, as it's not going to be much different than normal uneven wear between front/rear tires of the same type.

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Very good info. Thanks! Seems to make a lot of sense. I was thinking of mixing and matching with summer tires, so I wasnt going to throw all season or anything in the mix. Basically I didn't want to throw away a perfectly fine pair of fronts if I didnt have to. The fronts ended up not really having enough tread to confidently last through a new set of rears, so I had the shop order up all new tires. I'm going to measure the tread on the fronts over the weekend and see what type of life is left. Maybe someone local could use em.

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Plus Juan. I've done it a few times in my M3s while transitioning to a different brand w/o incurring any detrimental effects. I've even driven w/ mismatched front/rear pairs at the track for some fun. Here's something to ponder about : somebody mentioned heat cycling. Let's say you do replace the rears w/ the same brand tire. Those new tires are, more than likely, going to be grippier (after tire break-in) than the fronts, which have been heat cycled and worn. I remember reading about Bridgestone Pole Positions tire composition from back in the day being described as an M&M -- the tire starts out hard, then gets soft as it wears, then gets back to hard when it reaches the wear bars. Personally, I wouldn't make it a habit of running mismatched front and rear pairs, but at the same token, your car isn't going to careen into a fiery death w/ a concrete barrier either; well, unless you regularly drive like a maniac. I'm more worried about all the non-auto-savvy people out there that don't inspect their tire wear regularly AND are running 2-4 different brands of tires. Heck, my ******** co-worker knew 4 months ago that he needed new tires on his 330i, but waited until a chunk of tire flew off before garaging his BMW. ///Michael

The tire debate could go on forever, and there are lots of things that affect tire performance other than design. I actually had an interesting opportunity to experience tire characteristics a few years ago at Road Atlanta. I took a class offered by Saab for people who purchase the 9-5 Aero. The class is called the Aero Academy. Our instructor was Cass Whitehead, a well known Porsche driver and instructor. I had an opportunity to make back-to-back slalom runs in three cars. Each car was a similarly equipped Saab 9-5 Aero. The first car had Pirelli P-Zeros that were badly worn. The second car had new Pirelli P-Zeros. The third car had "pseudo new" Pirelli P-Zero tires. What I mean by this is that they were essentially new, and had never been previously mounted on a wheel. However, for whatever reason, they were set aside in the warehouse (think hot Atlanta summer) for about a year and a half. They were new, but "aged". The difference in the tires from a non-scientific, seat of the pants perspective, was remarkable. The difference in times was remarkable. The worst tires were the "pseudo new" tires. The best were the new tires, but not that far from the worn tires. I bring this up because there could be other factors that influence performance other than treadwear and/or manufacturer - age being one of them.