Did You Know - IMS

Did you know the IMS in the M96 motor was desinged as an upgrade to an already exsisting IMS shaft in the early Porsche's ??? It's true I will post pics of one and explaing how it is differant/the same Thougth I would share this for you, I know I was interested and a bit surprised to learn about it. Happy Long weekend for those that have it, thanks for working to those that dont and those who work 24hrs/day (you know who you are, Thank You !!) from Sharkwerks: see the thing with the chain on it that goes to the oil pump - IMS another shot showing front and rear suppert bearings one more for good measure

Lots of engine designs use intermediate or counter shafts. The failure mode in the M96 IMS which everbody fears involves the type of bearing used on one end. The old design used oil fed plain bearings like the crankshaft. The M96 uses a permanently lubricated sealed ball bearing on one end. An unusual arrangement in the inside of an oiled engine IMO. If sealed and lubed for life ,then when the lube/seal fails then the life might end soon after. Did you realize that the pistons and con rods used in the M96 are a lot like pistons and rods used in a steam engine?

Boo for posting IMS $hit. We need an IMS free month.

Are you buying whole 996 engines now Ed?

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I agree. A fatwa. Personally, I only want to read about my intermediate shaft if somebody has something new to add to what we know. Otherwise, the endless repetition and thumb-sucking is tiresome, especially from a bunch of guys who are, by any rational measure, pretty lucky humans.

Yeah, without trying to give Ed a finger for posting this but I think we really need to redirect this place back to mods, diy repairs and anything else other than the hot topic....

I agree as well........gloom and doom is one way to start loosing members. I'm fairly certain Ed was being informational however the recent threads on the subject are horse $hit.

Interesting fact, and good pictures, I have never seen it under that angle, we always see the bearing replacement, now I understand what is behind the engine case BTW, What causes the engine destruction when the bearing fail ? bearing ***** start flying inside the engine case and break stuff ? or is it the fact that the intermediate shaft start interfering with the main shaft and cause it to loose sync and results in the piston knocking on the valves ? I'd like to understand better what are the mechanical consequences when the bearing get loose and/or break apart fully. PS: I am not bitching about the IMS just trying to understand how thing work ... and break.

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The bearing goes, the chains start skipping teeth then the valves start fist bumping the piston.

I'm with you on this IMS thing, enough. Spend the money, buy a warranty that covers the NADA retail value of the car and have peace of mind that if it grenades you'll be covered. Do you due-diligence like I did and hear it from the insurance company's mouth that if it fails your covered.

You can also not do anything about it like myself, several local friends to me and dozens of people I've spoken to at the track, PCA meets, etc. But hey, I take lots of chances, I even left my house today!

Hey guys! The intent was NOT to make another pissing pot. I am sorry you didn't see what I am trying to do. I had a long day and just got home, I will explain more later My intent to to educate. Some people think the M96 is flawed because it has some "special parts" but in reality it has very normal parts and aside from a bearing issue, a very tried and true set of parts. I want people to know the motors are not so differant, something to be afraid of, some un-proven technology. (As for the comment about steam engines, no **** - brilliant help there) people need to find comfort in their M96's and all the bad threads I thought this was a little ray of hope. Let's turn this into something useful, not a witch hunt, burn burn burn, she turned me into a newt! If I am off base tell me so, but I think knowing things helps

When I came out of the post office today this very cute Latina woman said " I was just admiring your car". Me unshowered and unshaven said "thanks" jumped in and drove off. Then I said to myself "your a *****". I'm kicking myself in hindsight. No game!! She didn't bring up IMS however.

Ed, I enjoyed your contribution and found it educational.

Ed, I also like to learn and get to know details. Thanks for posting.

btw, it might be good to start talking about the "IMS bearing" problem. Although the 2009 engine (& onward) removed the IMS, as others have said, many other engines have intermediate shafts with no issue. It was simply the choice in the bearing & how it was lubricated in the M96/M97 engines that has been a source of problems. Otherwise, the engines are largely bulletproof. Going on an on about how the engine design is flawed actually isn't true and only serves to increase fear and decrease the value of the cars. To (more accurately) merely encourage people to upgrade the IMS bearing , or at least look for evidence (in the filter or on a magnetic oil drain plug) that the bearing is doing ok -- is much less onerous. =============== Fantasy: since the grease in the bearing must be a different formulation than the lightweight engine oil, wouldn't it be interesting if regular oil analyses from Blackstone, etc., would show a spike in some element that would indicate the thicker grease is leeching into the engine oil...indicating the seal is starting to fail (long before failure) ?

Thanks for the support guys and YES! I am trying to easy fear, make you understand that these cars are not so differant and that they are - as James said, mostly bulletbroof. The thread turned and for that I am sorry. But the truth is the more you know the better you can cope with the fear of recent IMO. The original point was that "I" was surprised and frankly a little happy to discover that the IMS was not a "new concept" for Porsche - it is iin fact a tried and true method of doing what it does. THAT made ME feel much better and I wanted to share that with others who may not know in fact I am guessing most people who buy an M96 dont know that - and most people who hear about the IMS and do a search only hear of the problems. My attempt to shed some light on it as a common part and not some voodoo magic Porsche invented just for the M96 is meant to help - we know the cure - we ALL know the cure, but I thought knowing more would ease some of the unknown history of why its there....err what ever. BTW Phil, the pics are older motors, I will find a pic of the M96 shaft and post it for you to see...anyone need a pic of a piston or steam engine? here you see (stole pics) the m96 IMS which is secured at one end to the craddle that houses the crank and connecting rods, the craddle goes into the block and looks like the second one.. note the "free" end is where oil pump connects (edit I was looking at it backwards) the IMS bearing end is away from you and you can see the big gear on it there is an old youtube vid series (search Boxster rebuild) its about a 14 parts series - very worth watching - the guy did a complete rebuild in his garage -

I love ENGINE ****..... Rick 99 996C4 87 944S

I spent more than an hour the other day with the engine machinist (does the machine work for my indy) he was doing some detective work on a throw rod in #4 on a race engine... seriously, I could listen to him for ever! awesome what he knows and the way he found the potential issue and the explanation was amazing engine ****! That is sort of how this started and I love to share too.... BTW being a machinst myself it was funny because he thought what I do is magic, and I think what he does is magic...pretty great guy and I hope to get more over time. We came away with a inspection plan for assembly that should give us the real data to base the work on... knowing is everything - guessing is not so good.... so of the 4 boxes (engineers will get this) we were in the "it doesnt work, and we dont know why" and we moved to the "it doesnt work and we know why" much better spot (the other 2 boxes are: it works and we dont know why - and - it works and we know why)

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True. Google "lay shaft" if in doubt. They're common as muck.

I'm with you Ed. More information can never hurt. Doesn't matter if you're an IMS bearing hater or not, info is info; use it or don't, it's each person's choice.