Suspension upgrade for track

I was hoping to get a few opinions and perhaps solicit a little help with a search. I'm planning on upgrading the suspension of my 2001 C4 for the upcoming track season. Here are my criteria: 1) I want this purchased and installed before the season starts. 2) I still plan on driving on the street, especially to get to DE events, so this has to be somewhat reasonable. 3) I'm not the sort to play with settings all the time. I believe in getting it right once and leaving it. I also think a lot of adjustable suspension setups probably aren't set up correctly to begin with. So I was planning on a non-adjustable suspension. Okay, based on my searches/reading/etc it seems the X74 suspension would be a great choice. I've tried Carnewal but they're out of stock and are waiting to hear back from Porsche. Any other suggested sources? If the X74 really isn't available, what other non-adjustable options are out there? If the X74 kit is made up of Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs, I'm sort of wondering if the offerings from those two companies for the 996 are basically the same thing as the X74 kit. Any information supporting or contradicting this thought? Another option is the KW Variant 1 setup. Factory set damping and rebound, but adjustable height. I've heard great things about the Variant 3s, any opinions on Variant 1s? Thanks, Shawn

Shawn- You need to exhaust your resources for the X74. There is Gert at Carnewal, Suncoast and Sunset.....and probably a handful of others you may contact. The kit is fantastic!!! Go get more cowbell!

I got the X73 (turbo version of the X74) from Carnewal. It is brilliant and worth the wait if Gert can find one for you. There are other good suspension kits out there like the PSS10 or Moton, but they all seem to have minor quirks like funny noises in specific situations.

Shawn, For your specific needs try to find the X74/X73 kit. I have a client looking to sell a used X74kit... but he is asking a high price.

I just installed PSS9 (re-manufactured to new) and they are great, but the best part is the adjustment from soft to hard, make a pretty big difference in stiffness. So you can really adjust from decent to rock hard if you like. And they really take 5 minute to adjust, no lifting or anything necessary. you can reach the front adjustment by laying on the ground and extent your arm around the wheel, for the back adjustment they are on top of the shocks so they are inside the car, can't be easier. The softest setting ride a lot like the RoW-030, but the hard is pretty strong. I recommend those suspensions and you can corner balance as they are coilover. X74 are great, no settings necessary so it is simpler but they are rock hard...all the time.

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+1.... We ran the PSS10's on the first versions of the 996 Spec and they were every bit as good as the 2-way JRZ's we switched to....

I wouldn't call the X73/74 rock hard. Stiff maybe, but they are well dampened and not harsh except on the roughest roads. Even then it doesn't skitter and the wheels stay planted. I don't race, but the car just didn't feel like I expected on the handling front. The X73 makes the car feel the way it was supposed to from the beginning. Just my .02.

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^+1

Shawn: I have a suggestion. Dependnign on just how many track days you are going to do, you might want to change drop links and sway bars first. See how that feels and see if you like the difference. This will give you time to learn the new set-up. If you want more, then think about replacing shocks, having the front end re-aligned and the height adjusted. The sways are a less expensive way to begin to change your set-up, b4 you go the shocks route. You can then scour the sales in here and look for the shocks/coilovers you want after asking a bunch of questions about each and figure out your budget. Just my .02. Chris (@LC) and others (Mr. Gordon), in here, have way more experience and knowledge than I.

I ran PSS9s, until switching to JRZ's. I PSS's are great for double duty track/street setups.

Thanks for all of the feedback so far! Responses to a few comments: Country911: I've got a GT3 bar sitting in my office and I'm trying to track down a rear as we speak. I'd be on board with your suggestion if my existing shocks didn't already need replacement. I don't feel like replacing the fronts with a new set of stock shocks only to have to change them out again later. PSS9/PSS10 crowd: I've heard a lot of good reviews on this setup, but I've also heard plenty of complaints. Things that concern me about the) setup are: 1) clunking in the front, 2) rusting in NE weather (pointed out by a local P-car specialist), 3) getting the system dialed in correctly to start with. I'm an engineer and I enjoy tinkering, but without proper measurement equipment I feel like I could easily be spending most of my time at the track changing settings trying to get things "right". I prefer a setup that's been set correctly and left alone. X73/X74 crowd: I'm on board, but haven't had any luck finding the parts! Suncoast (my go to for inexpensive factory parts) quoted around $4k and wasn't sure when the factory would have them. Gert has a good price but said he wasn't sure when he'd have them back in. That was in December. It takes several weeks and emails to get a response from him and I haven't heard back. -Shawn

Shawn, I had heard (thru my factory contact) that the X74/X73 kits would not be produced anymore or only on a limited basis. This would be why Suncoast is now marking them up to $4k. Gert is in a better spot as he can get his hands on items that are not availible in the states. When I need to contact him, I find just picking up the phone is the best method... as he or his wife will answer everytime.

Shawn, Having been down the same road of analyzing every different suspension option for a 996C4, with a very similar objective of wanting a no nonsense plug and play solution without the adjustability that would be useless for me, as i know i would never change the settings. I also planned on using the car for both track and street. The finalist came down to the PSS10 and the X-74, the PSS system required a number of additional parts such as camber plates and drop links for the best desired outcome, which also added an extra $1k to the total cost. Again i was sure i was going to really take advantage of the adjustability. The X-74 was installed 2 years ago now, and really transformed the car on the track, its like having a new car. Especially noticeable was the way the car now rotates beautifully around corners. I feel very comfortable recommending this suspension package. I guess the only downside being the greatly reduced ride height for high driveways and some common everyday obstacles you may need to be more attentive to. I got the entire package from Gert without a problem. Hope this helps, Good luck,

As Rob said, it's like a new car. Also, don't forget to get the Porsche Sports brake pads to go with the x74. You will regret you didn't upgrade sooner Not sure where you live but if the roads are bad, x74 may not be the bset choice. Where I live the roads are fine and I just slow down for the really bad sections.

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PSS10 must be re-valved from what they come from factory to be used with #600+ springs at which point they become more expensive than new JRZ RS. but JRZ RS are not monotubes, if that matters.still, imho, to have an adjustble rebound is well worth the price diff. to minimize 'clungs' on the street from any dual spring package just get a black electrical tape and when car is jacked up - tie a piece of tape around lower spring, upper spring and plastic piece in between making them 'stick' together. it will stop making most of odd noises after that. if you still get metal 'clang' at each bump that means either sway bar links are loose or some monoballs in other suspension pieces are shot.

KW V3, that's what I put on my 02 C2, not too harsh for road and amazing on track. Good enough for Manthey, good enough for me, without spending $$$$ obviously.

Shawn: You might want to check with Chris at LC Motorsports. He is on top of his game and might be able to help you with MCS or something else for coilovers/shocks. He knows his stuff and might have an in for you regarding someone who is switching out their current set-up. Just a thought.

Actually, I might be able to hook Shawn up with a used set of PSS10's... Currently, we are reworking them with some higher spring rates (still streetable an below a need to revavle)... The owner might be convinced to sell them (as he really would like the MCS dampers). Give me a call and let's chat.

Scott, If you have the time give me a call as well....

Chris, done, at home today, working on Motions. *Paging Shawn* *Paging Shawn* would you please pick up the......

A few more thoughts in the mix: Whatever you do, make sure your components are balanced, and that your car is properly aligned in proportion to the components, tires and wheels, and that ride height, corner weighting and balancing are properly proportioned as well. One of the benefits of the x74 is that it is an integrated package, each component designed to mesh with the rest, and with specific alignment and height specifications to dial everything in together. I'm learning the hard way that balancing and proportionality are critical. I've been working with Chris Whaley to define a better spring package for the PSS10s for focused track use--you can go up to 700 lbs with no revalve. BTW, no noise with street use (I've had the Bilsteins on for about 1.5 yrs). The stock PSS10 mains and tenders provide weights/rates of 255 F and 515 R. That's "fine" for street use, and ok for fun track days with stock sways, or marginally thicker/stiffer sways. Those rates are not good for very stiff sways and more "aggressive" cornering. The result is an unbalanced car--very bad in a 911. There are many other factors, but matching springs and sways for corner entry and mid-corner to exit management are at the top of the list--thinking about track time in particular. A previous post mentioned looking at sways first, align the car and see where that gets you. That's actually better initial advice--in my personal view--than X, or Y or Z coilovers are great or the best, etc. The reason is that its important to think carefully about the type of driving your going to do (track vs street; DE enjoyment vs dialing out every second possible from corner to corner). Again, my own opinion here, but consider looking more closely at what current handling characteristics or dynamics you want to change, improve, remove, etc. That's the real trick, and, unfortunately, is not a simple as slapping on a nice set of coilovers, getting a "blind" alignment and heading off. You may certainly see some "improvements" in feel and certain handling characteristics under limited and more manageable circumstances. But, if you then put the car on the track, you may have an unpleasant surprise. Hopefully not, but it pays to plan and work step by step. Ok, one guy's diatribe. As they say, YMMV.

I happen to have a 996C4 with a modified PSS10 system that I am currently getting ready to sell. I changing my car from a street/track to a track car and will be switching over to the MCS system with the help of Chris Whaley. The rears are the the standard PSS10's with 515lb setup but the fronts were reworked last year by TPC. TPC changed out the front 200lb springs and put in 500lb Eibach springs, reworked the valving and added the TPC monoball camber plates. The standard 200lb springs are too soft for a C4 but with the new 500lb springs its now much more balanced. Let me know if you might be interested. Marc

Hey guys, Thanks for continuing the conversation. I do need to give Chris a call and follow up with Gert via telephone. Sprint, I understand what you're saying in regard to a well design and integrated system. That's the primary reason I'm interested in a non-adjustable setup that has been well engineered and tested from the start. I will say that one of the reasons I'm hesitant to consider revalved or modified setups is that I have no idea what the experience level, engineering competence, or testing capabilities of the people doing the work are. If you tell me Porsche designed the system I'm on board. If you tell me a company like KW did the testing with a seven post shock dyno and was later used in the 996 with the fastest time around the ring... I'm on board. I'm in the process of switching out the swaybars so I am interested to see how everything works together, but as I said, the shocks are dead and need replacing. The KW Variant 1 setup is on par with the X74 setup in terms of price. Does anyone have any concerns about this setup (assuming I can't get my hands on the X74)? It has 600 lbs springs in the rear and progressive springs up front (not sure on the range). I need to gather a little more information on the setup. -Shawn

Buy the PSS10's listed above. You won't be disappointed, they're great shocks....

Shawn, If you work out a deal with Marc these will be a great option. I would be willing to have Marc send them here ... look them over and work with you to get the car squared away. These are a nice set of PSS10's.

I also forgot to mention that I have a set of H&R swaybars available. Marc

One additional--important--factor to look at is the spread of your spring rates. If/when you do connect with Chris, or anyone else your talking about this with who understands the 911/996, you may hear them state a preference for a front to back spread of 150-200 lbs. That's a data point, something to talk about, and something to look at when shopping for coilovers. With high end coilovers, you choose your own spring package; with kits, you obviously get what comes with the package. You might be surprised at the spread . . . Factor in a possible spring change when pricing your options. BTW, you can get a Bilstein factory rebuild or revalve for $125.00 per shock (facility in CA).