Job done - Bought Clutch and Flywheel - Should I get my IMS done too?

Looks like its time to replace the clutch and possibly the flywheel too. I know Suncoast has a good price on the Clutch but can't seem to find the Flywheel on their site. Any suggestion where to buy OEM clutch and flywheel for a good price? Thanks

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https://napaonline.com/Catalog/Resul...+50062+2062003 Clutches are made by Luk. Just an option. Very quality product.

$900 for a clutch kit??? I'm looking for best price not bad price...LOL

Check pelicanparts.com & suncoastparts.com they are west coast & east coas respectively so buy whichever gets you best price + shipping. Sach's kit is a good deal for the $$.

Jake, you most likely dont need a Flywheel. Get the Factory Clutch Kit from Sonnen Porsche http://www.porscheoemparts.com/partl...?siteid=215405 your Part Number 99611691102 $508.63 USD. Call in and talk to them rather than Email. They also ship USPS to Canada. If you really want a Flywheel get the Sharkwerks LWFW http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=151 but this is the Factory Part # 99611401204 for your car $921.35 USD @ Sonnen. Ask Sharkwerks to Match that Price!!

I knew you would come through once again...LOL I don't need a LWFW just an oem stock flywheel...may not need to be replaced but just to be sure so that once they remove the trans there will be no surprises.

+1 for sonnen porsche. They have all the others beat on price.

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lol wellcome! Yes you really wont need a New Flywheel. Just have a Re-Surfaced onces its all out. Flywheels very rarely go bad You know what give EU Autowerks a call and ask them what they think about it... im sure they will give a Convincing answer

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on ebay with a buy now shipped price!!

Brand new flywheel $595 FS now on Pelican Parts 996 forum.

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Sunset Porsche in Beaverton Oregon had the best price on a Sachs kit (OEM parts)

$452.95 shipped to lower 48 states is a pretty good deal for the 3.6L http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-03...Q5fAccessories

Yeh I saw that on eBay...want to make sure its quality stuff??

Thanks everyone. Bought my Sach clutch kit for $453 and LUK Dual mass flywheel on eBay for $600 shipped. Sonnen, pelicanparts & suncoastparts couldn't touch those prices.

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Link?

Should I get my IMS done as well with the clutch job???? Holy F....$$$$ If so where to get the kit?

well since you are in there... LN Engineering..?

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I mean this in the nicest way possible. You'd be a fool not to do the IMS and RMS while doing your clutch flywheel. I'd also suggest the Air Oil Separator while you have the gearbox out.

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Heck if they don't. Half of these cars we see with miles that are needing a clutch usually also need a flywheel.

Try EBS for the IMS kit. http://www.ebsracing.com/getspecials.epc you need to call or e-mail him it is not in the catalog.

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I am planning a clutch replacement and am interested in your knowledge of needing a flywheel. I will probably have it done at the 70k to 75k mile mark. What would the symptoms be of needing to replace the flywheel? Would a driver notice or is it something that a good mechanic would see? When I had the trans replaced, about 25k miles ago under CPO, the mechanic said I had slightly greater than 50% of clutch material left and advised to use it up instead of replace. I am not having any issues but I noticed the pedal travel to engage is noticeably higher and it doesn't "feel" like there is as much meat left in the transition from disengaged to engaged. Car is an 04 C2 with 65k miles. Purchased as a CPO with 24k miles and dealer claimed that they replaced the clutch pack when they did the RMS as a part of qualifying the car for CPO. After reading on the board it seems like I might not be getting the mileage out of the clutch as I read of people with 130K on the original clutch? I am an old school manual guy so no, I don't ever slip the clutch nor do I bang shift like I am driving a 70's muscle car. I just had the brake fluid flushed and blead while I had rear rotors and pads replaced. On the brake note, I was a little surprised that I needed to replace the parking brake shoes - one split when they pulled the rotor - dealer said that it is extremely rare for this to happen. My dealer is really cooperative and allows me to provide my own parts and when I do they are O.E.M. My thought is to accumulate all of the parts, including the IMSR bearing, before I have the clutch replaced. You sound really knowledgable and I would really appreciate any input or your comments. Thanks in advance

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zook? what is this now? as I see it the flywheel surface is not the main reason these go bad, the dual mass units fail the return test due to being worn or internally broken...and who is re-surfacing dual mass flywheels? - and who would run LWFW on street car? sorry maybe I missed something +1000! +2000 and 500 more

Hey John, Bottom line you need to have a mechanic that you trust and hopefully a good one too. The clutch can wear to a point when the flywheel is affected too, hard to say but according to my mechanic better safe than sorry. If I don't need it, I will just sell it or return it. I have about 60K miles and the clutch is hard and higher than usual, I also notice lost in a little power on the higher gears. You CANNONT resuface a daul mass flywheel, it will throw the balance of the flywheel...I was told. The LWFW is a nice upgrade, but no for me as I dont track my car often. Its also recommended to do the RMS and IMS while the tranny is being removed. Will update when jobs done....hopefully soon.

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Just dropped my car off today to get the clutch, IMSB, RMS done as well. Who is doing the work for you? u in the GTA?

MVS Motors up in Markham and Steels. Not an endorsment but I have taken my car to a few popular spots used by many here on the forum and these guys I am very happy with.

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sorry and I mean to be nice, but this is just wrong. 1. yes it can but that is not always what makes the flywheel bad, there is a test where you rotate the 2 parts and see how they return to the initial point..often times flywheels that "look good" are completely worthless and need replacing 2. Clutch action would have zero to do with this unless it was slipping...the clutch either works or slips it is not a power robbing part for your motor 3. you cannot resuface them because when you hold the back the front can move..its like trying to resurface a piece of jello...it wiggles - (indirectly that throws the balance off, but balance is not the concern, holding it is 4.LWFW = nice way to split your crank shaft into 2 pieces, do a search. street cars have had issues with this, its well regarded as pretty high probability on street...less so but still happens on track - there isnt enough gain to gamble that in my book unless you have a spare motor you are just dying to stick in. 5. good advice, dont forget the AOS, check the chain tensioners very closely for mushrooming that will cause them to stick

LWFW benefits (other than lighter weight)???

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John, The signs of a worn flywheel would be subtle to the driver. Especially with a clutch that is worn also. One the flywheel is out though, you can check for the amount of movement in the center section. There is supposed to be some movement however most FW I see are worn to the point they need replaced because the movement has more than doubled. Now I'm talking primarily cars with miles and are still on original clutch. It sounds like your car has been nicely maintained and perhaps the flywheel was spared due to an early clutch replacement. Are you planning on keeping your car? If so, without question, I'd replace the FW if it were mine and had 75k on it. If you are thinking of selling the car in a year or so without many more miles, I'd put the old one back in ONLY if it were in excellent shape. Any sign of wear, replace it. Your shop can likely give you a good assessment. For sure include the IMS and I would also change Air Oil Seperator. Hope that helps!

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Engine revs quicker because of lighter weight in rotating mass.

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First - Thank you for your response! I do plan on keeping the car, and even if I sold it I have a very bad habit of over maintaining my cars and I have never had a problem knowing that the next owner is getting a well cared for machine. Again, I am lucky to have a good relationship with my dealer, they have saved me many times by telling me "we didn't install it because you just don't need it". ( I have a tendancy to show up with additonal OEM parts and say while you are at it.....) When I purchased it in 2007 I thought I had a plan to trade up when the CPO expired in 2010 - but I really really like the car and life has thrown some serious crap my way, so now I am planning on enjoying it, hopefully beyond the 100k mile mark. I recently used the PCNA site to build and price a car as identical to this one as I could and the MSRP topped $101,000. My thinking quickly changed considering that mine is paid for and I am rationalizing that even in a worst case scenario the repairs will cost less than the purchase of another used and unknown car. Another round of questions for you - I typically purchase true O.E.M. parts - in your experience should I stay that course or consider an alternate manufacturer for the clutch kit, fw, and AOS? And is the IMSR from LN the right choice? Any idea of the average service life of a clutch in a 996? I get that this isn't go to be inexpensive and that is why I am trying to plan and build my parts inventory in advance. Thanks again - I really appreciate your straight forward and sarcastic free answers.

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Have only heard that affecting 3.6L engines and not 3.4Ls so far. I am thinking about throwing in a LWFW during my engine out R&R.

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my only advice would be to talk to some of the so called experts and form your own risk/benefit opinions - I would talk to J.R. he is easy to talk to and can offer a better opionion over the phone...for all I know its the best thing going...but I would ask first

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John, No problem, I just did these exact services on my 90,000 mile C2 and see these cars torn down all of the time. I get to speak with a couple of top notch Master Techs and gain their insight. In addition, the amount of knowledge on this site is astounding and quite helpful. I would for sure use OEM parts. And trying to save money on getting your own parts can backfire sometimes. If said part is bad or has a problem after install, the labor is on you. Reputable shops stand behind the parts they supply and if there is a problem, they eat the labor to replace it. I'd ask the dealership or shop for two favors on this major service. One, you will agree to buy all parts from them but want them at 20% or less over cost. And also that they look at the over lap in labor involving the additional services you will do while the clutch/flywheel is being done. The LN IMS is a product that carries a warranty when done at authorized dealers, so I'd have your shop look into becoming an authorized dealer and go with that. If they will not, I'd go to another shop. You want the LN product in your car. End of story. The AOS part of the job is a slight pain but shouldn't be more than 1.5 hours labor with the gearbox out. A new RMS is cheap and will not be but an additional hour or so of labor also. I think the clutch is 8 hours book time so that will give you a range for what you are looking at for labor. Hard call on clutch life. Some start to squeak, others slip and then there are those that get so hard you can't hold them in traffic.... all of that varies with mileage. I'd say a non abused clutch is good for at least 60k on average. It also depends a lot on if those miles are city or highway. It makes it nearly impossible to put a real word number on it. Are you using a independent or dealership for the service?

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I am using a dealership, the one I purchased the car from. As to the parts, it was actually the dealer who suggested I purchase the parts from Suncoast because other than the 10% PCA discount of up to $100.00 this dealer will not discount parts. I purchased my rear brake parts from Suncoast and the price compared to my dealer was very close to getting 2 O.E.M. rotors for the price of one. I will compare part prices for this service and will have to balance the good old risk vs. reward. They have been good about the over lap labor charges so far. For example, when they replaced the trans they also replaced the RMS and IMS seal and the clutch release bearing. I paid for the release bearing only and had a bill of $oo.oo for labor. The RMS was dry and the IMS seal I would call damp, but they said they ALWAYS replace the RMS when it is right in front of them. They did tell me to wait on the IMSR until I needed to replace the clutch - and specifically said that if I did the IMSR at that time that the labor for the bearing would be under one hour if things went smooth. But I will double check on all of the anticipated work. I have a lead on a indy not too far from here, but my preference is to have all service records at a dealer. Plus, I really like the fact that the dealer is close by and I can also stop in unannounced and speak to the mechanic and observe him working on the car, (and of course ask him a few questions along the way) I am sure that some might have a different opinion on this. And I'm certainly open to hearing about that as well. I will most likely stop at the dealer this week and ask some questions and let you know what I am told. Thanks again - keep the good information from experience flowing.

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I have a similar relationship with the dealer near me. Talk direct to the tech, go under my car while it's on a lift, and get a Cayman or Benz as a loaner.

I'm curious as to what you have been quoted for the jobs. I'll probably replace my clutch this year and I asked about the IMS retrofit and was told that they would do an extra 8 hours of labor on top of the clutch, which to me seemed excessive considering the fact that the transmission is already out for the clutch. It would be good to get a sense as to what people are being charged ($ and time) for the clutch, IMS and RMS jobs.

^ many DIYs and indy shops here have quoted the IMS as an extra hour and a half on top of a clutch job. This also includes the RMS.

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That sounds right.

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Suncoast pricing is really usually quite good. And it sounds like you have a good relationship with your dealership so I would stick with them. Not all Porsche Dealerships are bad

I had new clutch, LN IMS upgrade, AOS, H2O pump, RMS and couple small items done in april at a pcar dealer for just under $4k. All parts from dealer, they ordered the LN IMS. I am very Happy with my local pcar dealer! John, Are you using WVM?

For what its worth, I have an '02 C4 Cab with 39k miles and I just did the IMS (LN Enginering) upgrade so that I can just sleep better at night. No one knows or is willing to say just how many 996's are affected by the IMS issue but the cost to replace the engine if it fails just isn't an option so the IMS upgrade was the best solution, at least for me. The IMS Guardian for $400 was a thought but since the clutch was likely going anyway, it was a no brainer just to go straight to the IMS replacement, which has at least some history behind it whereas the IMS Guardian is still new and relatively unproven (personal opinion only). While I know enough about cars to be dangerous, I'm no mechanic so read what I write with that in mind. The clutch was very stiff and caught very high which was leading me to believe that it was on its way out as well so while they were doing the IMS, I had them inspect the clutch and it was confirmed that it was near the end of its life cycle so in the end, I had the IMS, RMS, Clutch and Flywheel done. I am very happy with the indy I used but holy crap, the invoice almost caused me to pass out. Admittedly, I had some other minor stuff taken care of while the car was there as well (replaced the driver side window regulator, installed an antenna booster, and adjusted the e-brake) but living in Fairfield County, CT definitely brings a premium with it! Needless to say, it is like driving a new car now. The clutch works so incredibly smooth that i thought something might have been wrong. It shifts easier and quicker and there's significantly less jerking motion. The leg strain is no longer there at all. +1 for the indy for what appears to be a job well done. -1 for my wallet as its going to take some time to recover from this one. Fortunately, my wife doesn't read these forums.

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Thanks! I'll see if I can get a recommendation for a local indy to take the car to.

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Here is an update: I managed to visit the dealer on my way in this morning and although not completely nailed down here is what I have. They suggest that I purchase the clutch kit and flywheel from suncoast (they cautioned me that the flywheel is expensive), suggested I purchase the AOS from them to pick up the warranty. They assume that they are authorized to perform the LN IMSR because they are an authorized Porsche dealer - I will check with LN on that one. They again told me that they can't get close to Suncoast parts pricing and that there is never any warranty for a wear item. In their experience the risk of a manufacturers defect on a true O.E.M. part, for the parts I am replacing, is near zero to none. They confirmed that the core repair is where the labor charge sits, I am assuming that in this case it is the A.O.S, assuming that because that is the only part they recommended I purchase through them and I am assuming the trans needs to be out for that but I didn't think to confirm it. All other labor is time only, LN still expected to be under 1 hour, trans remove and replace is still ball parked at $800.00 to $900.00. I keep hearing mention of water pump replacement, is that also something that is cost beneficial while the trans is out? Getting closer to investing serious dollars guys - but I realize that the price you pay is not necessarily the cost you incur. I am making a swag that I will be somewhere between $3,500 - $4,000 in the end. Thanks for all of the continued input - it really does help.

Well, Finally got my car back couple days ago....WOW...car drives like it should be from day one. Needless the say the shift is smooth and no more squeaky stiff clutch. I had everything that was needed to be done while the tranny was removed. - Clutch - Flywheel Stock - RMS - IMS - AOS Cleaned up all the small leaks oil residue from the RMS and AOS. If anyone wants a recommendation for a class A mechanic in Toronto, feel free to PM me. These guys are maticulous and knows what they are doing...especially with RMS and IMS upgrade. The work may take time but not many know about the technique to replace the IMS and wait time for RMS to seal completely. Thanks for everyones feedback and if I can help with my experience, please do not hesitate to reply to post.

Many thanks for the update. Out of curiousity, what was the condition of you factory IMS bearing? Mine will be getting much the same treatment that you just did, including the IMSR.

Haven't had a chance to check out the condition on the old IMS bearings, was in a rush to get the car back for the long weekend. Will update when I get a chance...regardless, the condition of the IMS should be find or it would have been too late for any kind of upgrade.