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YOUR RESEARCHGasp.....Replicas??? Where to buy
Leading reported evidence
Repair more than once and do not balance well
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No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Be careful with used rims; my indi has a set of used Champions that look great on the outside, but he told me they have been repaired more than once and do not balance well.
Leading evidence: 'Repair more than once and do not balance well' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'tire i am running' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Recommend n3 tires' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Wheels and tires are often the first things that get changed on a modified car.
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Be careful with used rims; my indi has a set of used Champions that look great on the outside, but he told me they have been repaired more than once and do not balance well.
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Suspected cause
One other thing is to make sure the wheel does not rub with the 19" lock to lock mine just bearly does and think it is due to the tire I am running.
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Suggestion
The Turbo came riding on stock chrome wheels and factory recommended N3 tires.
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Be careful with used rims; my indi has a set of used Champions that look great on the outside, but he told me they have been repaired more than once and do not balance well.
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Suggestion
Ya, I think with these particular Champions, they were tracked and had too many R & R's done, so the ring has been weakened to the point of no return; IDK what it would cost to replace rings, but I'm sure it aint inexpensive...
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Be careful with used rims; my indi has a set of used Champions that look great on the outside, but he told me they have been repaired more than once and do not balance well.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
I've wrapped the hubs with a little teflon tape and it has helped, but it's still not perfect.
I have been looking for a set of Champion wheels for my Turbo and haven't seen any for sale lately that I like (they are either narrow body fitment or 19's, etc). It's just not in the budget right now to go out and buy new (buyign another home). So, for just street use for my drives to coffee, etc., I have no problem with a good quality replica wheel.
So...anybody know a reputable company that sells Champion replicas?
and yes, I have tried fleabay and craigslist.
I know what you mean. I love their RS98 but it is only available in 19". Did you call Champion and ask if they have any used rims available? I would also try 6speed FS section or just post on the 996TT forum. There is more 996TT traffic on that site.
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/w...lications.html
Good luck on the hunt. This is completely a luck thing with used rims..
I recently thought I was "settling" for replicas, too. I got over it real quick when I realized they were significantly lighter than my OEM turbo twists. It sounds like you're looking for 18"? I looked at a lot of places and will try to remember where I saw some...
Be careful with used rims; my indi has a set of used Champions that look great on the outside, but he told me they have been repaired more than once and do not balance well. so they sit in his shop basically worth the aluminum only...
About a year ago, after slamming a curb I sent all four of my Chamption RG5s to
http://www.wheelcollision.com/
to repair and refinishing. Although one rep says all work is done in-house, another guy I talked with said they're shipped out for repair. The finished product was top-notch. They're not cheap, but neither is a $1000 per wheel new.
-- May be worth a shot.
Ya, I think with these particular Champions, they were tracked and had too many R & R's done, so the ring has been weakened to the point of no return; IDK what it would cost to replace rings, but I'm sure it aint inexpensive... IMO, better to buy Pre-owned wheels from a trusted friend or RL'r who may know the history on the wheels.
Thanks for the link.
Looks like these are the ones that would peak my interest. However, it looks like I am stuck with 19" and I'm not quite sure how they mount.
Yeah, there are definitely cool. Look like the BBS Motorsport wheels. Just don't understand how they mount. Looks like odd bolts with an insert required to torque down?
yeah, those are nice; I think they are sold und Avant Garde name also; they have some 19" Fuchs style on ebay too. I didn't catch the different lug bolts style til now; a fellow RL'r has them on his 996 cab.
I had 19" that mounted nicely...... but couldnt deal with the way it drove in the tri-state roads. Thats to bad they dont have them in 18".... they look great and would freshen the look.
BTW, Dell//// those are tuner lugs, they just look different.... you can use stock style lugs.
^^^those look like real Champions but the older versions. They appear to be true multi-piece wheels. You can tell by looking at the interface between the center and the barrel. There's a space/gap there.
I think I saw those Champion replicas on Ebay also. an importer was located here in Miami, FL but they were 19's and like $800 / set. $150 shipping.
Look up porsche RUGER 18 or 19 on ebay.
Porsche replica 19's are all over ebay...
There are two members on this site happily tooling around with those wheels from wheel dynamics Dell, the make is "avant garde" or something, I like the look but will not run 19s on a 996 again if given the choice. Those wheels are only in 19 right now
If those were 18s I'd buy them , give it a year someone will be selling them for 500 bucks in 18 (like the 997 turbo replicas in 18 are 500 or 600 bucks)
For me the ride isn't worse, but
1) bent wheels, you're driving like an old man dodging every pothole and surface irregularity
2) tires = 2x the price
3) I feel like oversteer is much more sudden , not as progressive. Maybe this is because the limits are higher, maybe this is because I am running a 315 rear and 255 front (I do not have PSM), but I feel like the car doesn't warn me as much when it's about to swap ends. Not a big deal on the street.
I think 19s are great with stock porsche suspensions looks wise (half inch on either side, not noticeably larger quite honestly), 18s can look great lowered or if the wheels are spokes edge to edge (meaning without a giant lip or two/three piece design). Those avant gardes look so big because the spokes come all the way to the edge of the rim, most 19s won't look that big
+1 the ride seems softer to me on 19"s, however I did notice a taller sidewall with the Verdstein tire then with the 18" Bridgestones. If I was to get really picky I suppose the perfect size wheel proportionately would be a 18.5". One other thing is to make sure the wheel does not rub with the 19" lock to lock mine just bearly does and think it is due to the tire I am running.
How similar is the suspension/AWD/front end components between a 996 C4 and a 996TT? I seriously considered putting 19s on my car recently but decided against it and believe that they wouldn't fit properly on my C4 because of a suspension piece that might not exist on a RWD model. I've also seen other posters mention it in the past. It almost seems like it could be done but you'd have to have the absolutely perfect offset to get it to work.
Anyone?
Subscribing as I've been toying with various options for now.
I'm not sure if I wanna pay $1k for 1 BBS RS-GT rim that needs replacement...
It's really too bad those Avant Garde rims only come in 19's as the weight is pretty good considering they are replica's. I would imagine if it came in 18's, they could weigh in the low to mid 20's easily.
Dell:
I had these exact wheels mounted on my 2003 C4S today. They look incredible; and to answer your question, the ride seems better than what I had with the stock 18" turbo twists. The tires do not rub - fitment was perfect. I could not be happier! I chose Hanook tires. Rear: 305/30/19, Front 235/35/19. Perfect!
those Avants are supposed to be solid wheels from a build standpoint - a few guys over at M3forum got some sets and they're pretty much the same ones that vendors like VMR and Europeanautosource sell
I've posted this before, but re: AWD cars please read (also mirrors my experience, 19s feel better until about 8/10ths, after which they feel unpredictable)
http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...est/index.html
Porsche 996 Turbo Wheel and Tire Test - Why Change A Good Thing?
Plus Sizing Your Prized Euro
From the May, 2005 issue of European Car
By Jay Chen
Photography by Robert Hallstrom
For countless years now we've featured cars with plus-sized wheels and tires. Wheels and tires are often the first things that get changed on a modified car. Funny thing is, no one's really thought about what changing them does. Sure there's endless speculation about rotational inertia, fuel economy and ride quality-blah blah blah. As far as we know, no one's even posted basic performance numbers for a car with new wheels and rubber. So we decided to find our favorite European car, test it, slap on some plus-one high-end wheels and tires and test it again. We thought it would be an open and shut case of added traction and possibly slower acceleration. What we found came as quite a surprise and still has me scratching my head.
As far as good things go, the Porsche 996 Turbo is about as good as it gets. For tires, we picked the best street tire we know of, the Michelin Pilot Sport 2. These were mounted on 19-inch Avus AF-M02 wheels by Shoreline Motoring of Huntington Beach, Calif. Nothing but the best for our European thoroughbreds.
In each configuration (stock and plus-one) we put the Carrera through a 700-foot slalom, 80 to zero mph braking and 200-foot skidpad tests. Each test helped us evaluate whether the difference was on account of the tires or wheels. We left out quarter mile acceleration tests just because replacing 996TT transmissions were out of our editorial budget, or our insurance coverage for that matter. Each test was performed at California Speedway's test facilities on the same day back to back, which meant a lot of tire changing. I now understand why no one else does this.
The Turbo came riding on stock chrome wheels and factory recommended N3 tires. N-Specification tires are fine-tuned tires designed by O.E. tire suppliers in conjunction with Porsche to meet its traction, noise, comfort and treadwear needs. Tires are rated from N0, which are mostly snow sport tires, to N5, the tires found on the GT2. The number on the N rating is the number of times a specific tire size from a particular tire manufacturer has gone through the homologation process. N-spec tires wear an N-spec badge on their sidewalls and are available through Porsche's dealer network. The N-Spec tires for the 996 include the Bridgestone Potenza S-02, Continental ContiSportContact 2, Michelin Pilot Sport and PS2 and Pirelli P Zero Asimmetrico, Rosso and 240 Winter Snow Sport. Although these tires share the same names as the tires available to the replacement aftermarket, they are not necessarily identical. The 19-inch Michelin PS2s we used weren't N-Spec units even though 19-inch N-Spec PS2s are available for the 997.
From our initial street driving impressions we knew the PS2s were a huge improvement over the tires mounted on the stock wheels. The stiffer wheel and tire combination added a more precise steering feel and more road feedback. Grip was dramatically increased while road noise was lessened. After putting roughly 200 break-in miles on the tires, we headed for the track.
We expected the new PS2s to be the better tire, so it was no surprise to see superior grip in both the braking and the skidpad tests. With the massive ABS brakes on the Turbo, braking distance is strictly a function of tire grip. Every pass with the PS2 was significantly shorter than the best braking distance on the N3 tires, regardless of tire temperature. The skidpad results, however, raised eyebrows. As predicted, the increased lateral grip did result in better numbers, but with the plus-sized wheels and tires the 996 could maintain higher average lateral g forces while in severe oversteer. Depending on the amount of throttle steering, the plus-sized 996 could run the skidpad in slight oversteer or extreme drift angles. Most cars obtain the best skidpad numbers when driven at a speed where a neutral attitude is maintained, which was exactly the case for the Turbo on the stock wheels and tires with the PSM turn on. This made no sense, since the new rear wheels are significantly wider than stock and offer added contact patch. If anything, the car should have understeered. Clearly there was more grip, but the stock 996's vehicle dynamics controls and suspension were not calibrated for it. I assume higher lateral g forces could easily be achieved if the car was set up for the larger wheels and tires. Results were not significantly different with PSM enabled or disabled.
The slalom yielded similar confusion. Where the stock Turbo blitzed through the cones with predictable precision, the larger wheel and tire package caused it to handle with dangerous unpredictability, sometimes in oversteer, sometimes in understeer. Even just after performing perfect slaloms on stock tires, we managed to continuously clip cones while attempting to get a better plus-one time. The car could be faster through the slalom, but we weren't about to wrap a $150,000 car around a light pole to find out how much faster.
I consulted Michelin and Porsche engineers along with some seasoned Porsche racers about this. Porsche's engineers did not find our problem surprising and said, "All the fuel and chassis control systems on the 996 Turbo are built and tested around the wheel and tire size and their corresponding rolling radius. Altering the standard size not only has adverse effects on the performance and handling but most likely could end in damaged drivetrain parts such as a broken front differential or viscous clutch damage (not a warranty matter). The weight of the wheels and tires is not a major factor." This just goes to show how dialed in Porsche's cars are out of the box.
Porsche racers experience similar problems when using R-compound tires on stock cars. The added grip and increased overall spring rate overworks the suspension and effectively makes the car roll too much, thus altering the weight transfer and tire load.
Without a doubt, the Turbo looks fantastic with the 19-inch Avus wheels and we know the Michelin PS2s are great tires. On the street, this combination has more grip than the average driver can sensibly overcome. You'd have to drive this car at nine-tenths to get it to even start behaving as we've described. But if you do, be prepared for it to potentially bite you back. If I were to do this to my own Carrera (not that I can afford one), I'd stick with the factory sizes and the N-Spec PS2s. Bigger wheels and tires are great, but dialing in suspension systems and vehicle dynamics electronics better than the Germans will be next to impossible.
Wheels Tires Front Rear (F) Tire Size (R) Tire Size (F) wheel & (R) wheel & tire wt. (lb) Skid Pad (g)tire Wt. (lb) Slalom (mph) Braking (ft)
Stock 996 N3 8x18 11x18 225/40R18 295/30R18 45.6 56.4 0.91 70.4 215.1
Avus Michelin 8.5x19 12x19 235/35R19 315/25R19 48.7 57.6 0.96 67.2 191.4
AF-M02 Pilot Sport 2
Best,
Hans
Dell, I spotted these on Ebay while looking for a fastener for my wheel. They are Champoin/Kinesis wheels. They are 19 inch, but they sure would look gorgeous on your turbo. At $2899. they are not cheap...but, I probably have that into mine after powdercoating. Black is so easy to keep clean.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kines...Q5fAccessories
I bought a set of the eBay Champion replicas last year for about $600. Two minor issues that don't bother me (too much), the casting of the centers is a little rough and they are heavy. The offsets are right though and the fit my NB car nicely. The problem that keeps me from recommending them (if you can still find them) is that the hub bores are not machined to an exact size, just cast 'slightly' large. There is a slight, but noticable vibration that is not there with the stock wheels. I've wrapped the hubs with a little teflon tape and it has helped, but it's still not perfect.
