Metal in Oil Filter

Looking at a fairly pristine 996 with around 63k miles. PO did an oil change at around 59k and found some metal in the filter. He ran it for another 1k miles and found more metal. At that time, he had the IMS pulled and did an LN bearing and the RMS. When they did another oil change about 1500 miles later, no metal in the filter. My question is, with no metal in the filter at the next change, should I still be concerned with an engine failure just from previous debris? Everything else on the car (water pump, AOS, timing chains, etc) has been done so the car is fairly pristine and the price seems right. Thoughts? Feels like I'm worrying a bit too much, just don't want to get a car only to have something happen 500 miles after I get her on the road.

Te term Metal is unfortunately too vague. Some alloy might be attributed to shedding of original casting surplus, etc.. Ferrous metals & copper can be much more concerning. The amount, size and shape might provide useful info. If there is nothing more to rely on than what you have described, while it could be acceptable shedding, I would probably pass. Don't mean to be a downer. Better safe than sorry. Lots of fish in the sea. GL in your search.

What yr and what was done on the timing chain? That's not a normal or preventive maintenance. 1500 miles sound low to me to prove its good...but that's just me.

Timing chains were done at 39k. Has been serviced it's entire life at a Porsche dealer. Will call back the service department tomorrow (or Monday) to talk to them about what kind of metal shavings. When I talked to their service manager, he said that he wasn't concerned with what they found in the filter, especially after the LN IMS had been put in.

Also, it's a 99 3.4 Obviously has the Dual Row IMS

this car should put your mind at ease for a good while: You Tube

Except for the fact that I dont' want those mods. Looking for a Cab and, btw, that year is the single row bearing which means I'm still checking on it for a while...

new water pump, AOS, Timing chains, IMS, no metal in filter good service records... afraid to buy it? Are they asking $60k for it?? Maybe find a nice 1998 993.

Asking a very fair 23k. The metal in the filter from the previous oil changes prior to IMS scared me a little is all. Only had air cooled cars before this and the demons of the net have me second guessing myself!

To change ALL the timing chains the entire engine must be disassembled. To the contrary the single row allows retrofit application of the IMS Solution. :-) FYI- One of my customers has a 2003 Cab for sale with our 3.8 engine, its a tiptronic with 45K miles.

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But for the Tip, that sounds like a VERY appealing car.

jake, maybe it was timing chain tensioners that were done then. regardless, and i know you'd have to see car first, but does having metal in the filter previous to IMS LN retrofit concern you? Esp since there has been none since the retrofit was done? What is your customer looking for on the 03 cab with the 3.8 Didn't realize they had done a 3.8 Assume it's a donor engine from another car...is IMS an issue in that engine?

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There's literally nothing more annoying that people making videos of stuff that isn't a video. You have text and pictures, what in gods green green earth compels you to think "this should go on youtube?" /rant off

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Hmmm.... so you are upset/ranting @ Jake Raby, right?

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$23K fair? fair to the seller not the buyer - there are lots of well serviced low mileage 1999 996 examples in the $17k-$18K range.

I dont' know where you're seeing 99 with less than 100k for sub 20 prices. Just looked at two in LA (where I live) that were 16 and 15.5 respectively. Both those had 100k+, no IMS and, while they had service histories, they weren't the best in terms of throughness.

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So people will watch it, just like you did. I guess it was effective?

...and worry about if the valve guides/SAI ports will cost you a surprise $7K. ...or an SC that might cost $8K for a simple tranny rebuild.. ...or a 3.0 that might need new head studs. I can't think of a single generation 911 that doesn't potentially have a very large surprise repair bill around the corner. Just not the cars to own if the potential for large repair bills is troublesome. But I agree, $23K for a 63,000 mile '99 C2 seems very top of market to me.

^ Thanks for an accurate perspective on Porsche ownership.

Agreed that it's high, but the ones I've seen around LA for 15 - 18k usually have 100k plus miles and a spotty service history. Even if I got one for 15k, I'm going to have to put in 3k for the LN engineering part and assume another 2k for AOS and Water Pump. That basically puts me right back to 20k on the car with 40k more miles and an unknown service history. Would I like to pay less, 4000%. Not sure if I can find one around here though that is as well taken care of for same price.

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+10000 it seems all porsche have their thing.

My '88 Carrera 3.2/ G50 has near 300K miles and has had only a clutch job on two occasions. Its now to the point that I need to go through the gearbox since its growling, but I just keep driving it. If I have the choice of driving a 996 home or my old Carrera I choose the one without the radiator... But thats just me.

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I definitely agree that buying a cheap car that needs work isn't a great idea (though if you need to spend $5K for an AOS, water pump and an IMS bearing, you need to look around for a new mechanic). My thought is to go the other way... Spend $2K-$4K more and look for a super clean, 50K mile, no engine swap 2002-2004 C2.

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Would LOVE to go that way, but I'd still have to do an IMS fix for another 3k so it's more like spending 5k extra for an 02 - 04. Also, here in So Cal, you're looking at 26k for an 02 bare minimum. Found a good 02 but it had 90k on the clock, had been in an accident (though no frame work) and had a wilting cab top. That one was 22900 and still needed the IMS.

To the OP: If your expecting to own a 996 on the "cheap" it just aint going to happen. All the M96 problems aside, EVERY part for the car is ridiculously overpriced. If you have the service done at a dealer, expect even more price gouging. I understand the free market and priced to the extent of what a consumer will pay but I for one refuse to pay it (except when forced to on a part). The only thing that is a bargain on the 996 is the purchase price, that is, if your informed and cautious before you buy.

These cars are Porsches. The only people who think they are overpriced to work with are the ones that buy the cars too cheaply. These days most people can afford to buy a 996, but learn quickly that they can't afford to own it. Those who come from the aircooled breed understand what owning a Porsche really is cost wise, the newer buyers generally do not.

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Really? Not my perspective at all. *Air-cooled* parts were silly expensive... I've found that 996 parts are actually quite reasonable. What parts have you found to be ridiculously overpriced, especially parts without a high quality aftermarket alternative? As for a dealer overcharging for parts, what else is new? Has nothing to do with Porsche, and nothing to do with 996's... Online prices for common 996 replacement parts... Seem quite reasonable to me. Air/oil separator (Porsche genuine): ~$90. Water pump (Porsche genuine): ~$260 Coolant expansion tank (Porsche genuine): ~$110 Full clutch kit (sachs): ~$450 Idler pulley (Porsche genuine): ~$70 Air filter (Porsche OEM): ~$25 Set of plugs (Porsche OEM): ~$36

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$3K sounds expensive for just an ims bearing. Most shops will do a full clutch replacement, rms seal replacement, *and* IMS bearing for that price... But there is another alternative... If you are concerned about IMS issues, you could also install a Guardian. Now that the Guardian Jr. is available, piece of mind for $260? Sounds like a win. It seems to me that a 996 owner who doesn't need a clutch in the near future and wants to prevent a possible IMS bearing failure from causing lots of secondary engine damage, a $260 Guardian Jr. is a great idea. Jake, I'd really love to hear your take on this... It's your design, but I don't see you mentioning it very often...

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If you want to pay up for a Pcar, shop only for cars in high income districts or in the alternative in markets where there much oil under the ground. There is no such thing as a cheap Porsche. Which is why its important not to pay top of market for a used one in the first place. Also, I would be leary of moderate mileage cars that have not had much repaired or preemptively replaced. My car didn't make a peep for the first 70K miles. By far the most reliable car I've ever owned. Then once it crossed the 70K mile marker a few sets of repairs (which I was fully expecting) ran $4K-5K each. All were common Porsche weak spots.

I was referring to Porsche OEM. For lack of time, I'll start with just a couple. SAI $1700 The only wear items in this assembly is 2 sealed bearings ($10 each), maybe motor brushes. C4S tail light $585.34 Seriously?? You have a different concept of overpriced than I do. Just trying to caution the buyer about repair costs.

I really appreciate everyone's responses. Just want to make it clear that I'm not expecting to jump into what was an 80k+ car and not expect to pay for upkeep. I just don't want to buy a car and have it grenade on me. Maintenance costs I can handle 20k for a new engine is another issue altogether.

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I'm gonna nit pick and say a few parts aren't like pumpkins and GT3 brake ducts. LOL Lately "Engine Guardian" has turned into "Trade-In Alert Sensor" according to Jake...

I was just the developer of it and had the idea. I have passed on the marketing and distribution of the product to others. The units sell very quickly and often times are out of stock. The IMSG gives an often symptomless problem a symptom, so action can be taken, but it doesn't solve the actual problem. Unfortunately people have been using the device in a manner that we never intended as they are disarming the unit after an alert, or removing it from the car and then trading the car in to "scatter" on someone else. One person recently called it a "trade in alarm" and thats when I realized we had created something that breeds dishonesty.

Bummer. I guess it's the SoCal market, but on the East coast that price seems high. I would be concerned with metal bits in the engine, but then I guess that's what the filter is for, and it seems that it worked, right? My motto is, if you've got questions and not a good gut feeling, just walk away. Plenty of other fish.

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OK, so we have a $250 device that can in your own judgement effectively provide early stage detection of IMS bearing deterioration.... But because of some stories about people trading in a car they suspect was in for big repair bills (hardly unique to 996's), you now don't ever mention it, and recommend preventative IMSB replacement at 10x the cost of the IMSG? That doesn't make sense to me. Unscrupulous Car sellers have been selling vehicles without disclosing known issues since the Ford model A, and Porsche buyers are far better than most at sussing out these bad deals. It seems to me that not promoting/recommending the Guardian Jr. as an effective, low cost way of detecting the early stages of IMS failure and preventing it from turning into major engine damage is doing a larger disservice to the Porsche community than a few unscrupulous sellers dumping cars. PS: Jake, just want to say that although I might provide a contrary (some might say argumentative) opinion, I do recognize and appreciate the R&D you've done for the M96, and further appreciate that you take the time to post/respond on forums like this.

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Body parts can be expensive... But again, hardly unique to Porsche. Ford charges ~$200 for a single tail light on my late model F150, which has a production volume of over 600,000 per year.

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Honestly I don't mention the units because they speak for themselves and because they sell so fast that we can't build them in enough quantity to meet the demand. Things that really work and provide benefits really don't need much mention or advertisement. As far as the unscrupulous sellers go there are always people who are not going to do the right thing and there is no way to avoid them, but honestly it makes me sick to think that something that we have developed can be used in such a manner. Thank you. I truly want to help people with these engines and their idiosyncrasies and misunderstandings but its very difficult at times. I have basically determined the best thing I can say is nothing at all, and just let people learn the way we have.

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Wow, they've even gone down even more. I would have to say this is one of the cheapest OEM upgrade you can do(debateable though on a street car). http://www.ecstuning.com/News/Porsche_996_Brake_Duct_Upgrade_Kits_Carrera_C4_C4S_Turbo_Boxster_1997_19 98_1999_2000_2001_2002_2003_2004_2005/ES2526435/

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IMO one would have to be a chump to actually pay those price at the dealership counter for those two parts... The SAI can be bought for around $300 new in a Bosch box instead of the same manufacturer's item in a Porsche box. It is the same part made by the same supplier. The definition of OEM. As far as the taillight goes, the newest 996 is over 8 years old. If I (and I think most other people) broke a taillight somehow I'd be looking on ebay or a used parts shop for the same factory part that is about as old as the rest of my car. Heck, buying one new one you'd probably find out that that the plastic on the other side has faded a bit and then you'd be buying a second one so they match (think 964 with the tails fading to pink...)