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YOUR RESEARCHIs the GT3 mkI the most reliable, best handling WC engined Porsche ever built?
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C4S is the M96 motor, most likely the worst for reliability.
Is the GT3 mkI the most reliable, best handling WC engined Porsche ever built?
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Leading evidence: 'worst' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'worst' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace with a 3.8l m97 and take your sc' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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If it blows up, replace with a 3.8L m97 and take your SC with you
Is the GT3 mkI the most reliable, best handling WC engined Porsche ever built?
Run away
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Even the F430s with paddle shifters aren't running away from the cup cars.
Is the GT3 mkI the most reliable, best handling WC engined Porsche ever built?
Run could just be the air oil separator
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Suggestion
Yes, the engine smoking at startup and smoking while running could just be the air oil separator.
Is the GT3 mkI the most reliable, best handling WC engined Porsche ever built?
Run upside down, also it's g50 bolt pattern
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trans would have to run upside down, also it's g50 bolt pattern
Is the GT3 mkI the most reliable, best handling WC engined Porsche ever built?
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My nick says 'Power' but i am all about handling. That's the reason why i bought a Cayman... because of its handling 'Prowess'. However, I won't be keeping the car because of reliability issues with oil smoke upon every cold startup (it didn't matter if the car was driven for long or just for a short trip).
So, now i've become interested on the most reliable water cooled engines from Porsche which equipe some of their best handling cars. Is the 996 GT3 mkI the best example?
C4S is the M96 motor, most likely the worst for reliability. They were plagued with RMS, porus castings and slipped sleeves causing intermix issues, IMS bearing and breaking issues, faulty and shortlived MAF sensors on early models, AOS issues and some I probably missed. Porsche missed it with this, as it's a crapshoot if these motors will last 50k miles without major issues or even 100k without replacement. Once you make it to 100k or 125k you're probably good to go and can relax.
The GT2, GT3 and TT are free for all the above to my knowledge. The TT have their own issues which may be a little disconcerting but not catistrophic. The GT3 is probably the best handling and the most trouble free in my opinion.
Did your cayman actually experience any "reliability" issues?
I read a lot about the problems with 996 reliability, but from my perspective they're some of the most reliable cars on the road. I say that as someone who's good friends with several people that have owned them for years, and acquaintances at shops (independent and otherwise) who work on them, service writers, etc. not to mention seeing them w/out problems on track rather often... Of course my two 996s have been just fine as well. Sold with 9x.xxx and 115.xxx miles, total of about 45k miles covered in them.
On my old 996, smoking on startup was just a symptom of too much oil. Did the CS board not have any suggestions for the oil issue? There are some tech gurus over there.
As for the CS vs GT3, it's apples and oranges. If you need a daily driver, you should probably borrow someone's or test drive one. They are not the most comfy Porsche for the street. They are quite low, harsh, and will beat you up a bit on bad roads.
As mentioned, you can't get a 6GT3.1 in the US.
-td
My 944 took 7yrs of thrashing including my daily driver for 5 years...while I was in college. Just keep an eye on the timingbelt!!!
Pervert.....(I was thinking the samething)
Now, that would be the thing for me!!!
As for the Cayman smoke upon EVERY cold startup all i can say is i won't keep a car which does that especially if it was bought second-hand. No sound engine should do that at anything like that rate. Period. BTW, it was a 09 Cayman 2.9.
Competition-derived engines will always be more reliable... is the GT3 the only 996's example? Is there any exception to that in the 996 world?
The GT2, GT3 and TT engines are rock solid.
Now the only issue that they all have and even the 997's is that the cooling pipes are glued into the engine block. Which results it them sometimes spilling out all their coolant. Not very safe when that happens to splash the tires and for the people who drive over it behind them. Coolant is very slippery and driving over it or it splashing on your tires will result in an accident for sure.
Also, they are all dry sumped engines.
Are they the only dry sumped engines on the water cooled Porsche's engine world?
Which one handles better?
Can you please elaborate more on that?
I'm glad you brought the 997 example... how does the DFI stands against the above mentioned dry sumped engine models as far as reliability is concerned?
997.1 GT2, GT3, TT.1 and GT2RS all share the same engine as the 996 GT2, GT3 and TT
The 997.1 shares the same M96 engine as the 996
I didn't bring the 997.2 9A1 DFI engine into the picture. We don't know what issues will come up with it. Though the Cayenne DFI engine has been out the longest and carbon built up related to DFI seems to be starting to rear it's ugly head.
I personally think that the new engine is a lot better then the M96, no more IMS and the oil pumps seem to be a good alternative for a dry sump.
I think if they dropped the DFI it would be a very reliable engine but then it wouldn't be able to get the fuel management that all the governments have put in place.
See the post above with the coolant issue. Happens on all the cars with this engine.
Which is the best handling 996 stock. The 996 GT3 RS is, followed by the GT3.
I've just read about the coolant issue. Thank you jumper!
So, are you suggesting that the 2.9 9A1 engine, which is not DFI, is the best bet on terms of engine reliability?
Not much on the power department, but handles like a dream... i guess i was unlucky then with the smoke issue!
I should have bought it new instead...
Yes, the engine smoking at startup and smoking while running could just be the air oil separator. Though smoke at start up is not uncommon and nothing to worry about for an engine that is horizontally-opposed. Oil can easily leak through the rings during cooling periods and lie in the cylinder and at start up be burnt off.
not easily, and not without a Stupid Large Budget, unless someone has figured some major stuff out in the past year.
engine mounting points are different
trans would have to run upside down, also it's g50 bolt pattern
ecu
ruf did a few, 200K+
just buy a supercharger, or a turbo kit. If it blows up, replace with a 3.8L m97 and take your SC with you
Total of 2 or 3 motors ever returned to Porsche for porus castings.
As far as 'slipped sleeves'... pretty hard to slip them if you don't have them in a M96! Read Adrian's book (
http://www.amazon.com/Porsche-996-Es.../dp/1845840968
) where he lists this and other issues as old wives tales.
I agree, but I would do SC/turbo first (he's talking about a cayman s, so 3.4L updated motor anyway) and if that motor blows then go 3.8L.
I think all this stuff is a little crazy, putting 20K+ into a 35K car so it can perform like a 996tt you can buy for 40K today so you can sell it for peanuts down the road doesn't sit well with me, but in a Cayman S I guess if you prefer the mid engine platform then it's the way to go. Me, I'd sell the cayman and buy a legitimate turbo, which does have the M64 block the OP seems obsessed with, and flash that sucker.
I think there were a lot of people with 2.5L boxsters who got new motors back in the 90s due to porous blocks, but again I have to re-read adrian's book to see how that number was arrived at.
Adrian if you're still reading this board, maybe a clarification on porous block statistic?
Best,
Hans
It's a misnomer to call any engine bullet proof.
If you speak to the actual Porsche independent shops, they'll tell you the M96s are reliable and the GT1s as well.
I know of cases where the GT1 turbos have gone to **** and that's an expense that well exceeds any M96/7 replacement project. And you're not even getting a new engine.
Just buy it, drive it, enjoy it. It's a Sisyphean endeavor this thread.
Can you recall seeing a sound GT3's engine smoking from tailpipe ?
Is there any sensible reason to NOT prefer a mid engine platform? Do you have any doubts that if Porsche somehow managed to fit the 360hp GT3's engine in a Cayman, so as to have a sort of Cayman GT3, no 911 GT3 with equal power and weight would match the Cayman handling, corner speed ability and fun factor?
Those who buy 911's - and i just might became one - are only buying what Porsche is willing to offer... not the best they can offer for the same money!
Yes, I have doubts. Hypothetically, it seems that the mid engine platform would be better - but in practice, I have not seen this. On our home track, in either the 3.1 or 1.7 configuration, 300 HP 911s [older 996s] are faster than 300 HP Caymans [newish Caymans] with the equal setups.
How about this food for thought: By the PCA Racing Rules, a SpecBoxster [mid engine, with a hard top - so essentially a Cayman] weighs 2650, with 217 HP, and a LB/HP ratio of 12.21. C and D class cars have higher LB/HP ratios [around 15], and E class cars have closer ratios [around 13]. If you look at the track records, you would think that the mid engine, better ratio Boxster would fare better right? Well, D and E class cars are often seconds faster, and you will even see a C class car besting the Boxster as well.
Sure, this isn't a perfect analysis, but it does illustrate the "doubt" you mentioned. The mid engine platform, with equal HP/WT is not necessarily faster than a 911. There is a lot to be said for the rear engine car. Even the F430s with paddle shifters aren't running away from the cup cars.
-td
