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YOUR RESEARCHWhat to do when your 996 is worthless? Upgrade!
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Clean gun and mixed up some clear, you're ready
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In practice, by the time you've cleaned your gun and mixed up some clear, you're ready to tack it off and shoot.
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The surface is then blown off with compressed air and cleaned with acetone.
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This was on the advice of the professional painter who ran a votech class I took and was consistent with the recommendations of Dupont for the ChromaClear I was using.
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IIRC, I used a 1.5 for color/clear, a 1.8 for Dupont URO (a primer/sealer) and a 2.0 for Feather Fill (a buiding primer).
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I use a 7" rotary buffer with a synthetic wool pad and 3m rubbing compound as the first step.
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Suggestion
Is the damage much worse if (heaven forbid) you're in an accident or can the fiberglass be repaired whereas the urethane bumper generally has to be replaced?
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This was on the advice of the professional painter who ran a votech class I took and was consistent with the recommendations of Dupont for the ChromaClear I was using.
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So, I made a brief attempt at selling my '01 996. No response on this board, a $16k offer from Carmax, bidding on eBay went to just over $7k, and nothing from Autotrader priced at $25,500.
For me, this means the car is fair game to mod away. Can't ruin it right?
My first stop was Tony at Precision Porsche for a Techart front bumper upgrade.
Because I am in LA, I went to his shop to see what I was getting and how he works. I arrived to find his guys prepping the bumper and spent some time with Tony talking cars. He apparently does quite a few of these and is the "OEM" supplier for a couple of other bumper companies. The fiberglass is hand laid in molds he has made and test fit on one of the 7-8 Porsches in his shop.
For those of you who are considering a DIY bumper upgrade and have want more info, I will post pics of my progress. You can also compare this to another thread in which the Misha Techart bumper was installed. In addition to the information already on Rennlist, I will be painting the bumper myself with an HVLP turbine 3 stage in a simple spray room.
First things first, remove the old bumper. There's a lot of other information out there about this so I will not go into detail. Pop the hood, remove the four plastic screws and cover exposing to phillips screws. Remove the side markers and two screws behind them. (The screw behind the fender liner is a bitch.)
Remove the torx screws underneath. Remove the temp sensor next to the passenger side radiator, and pull the cover off and lay it on your waiting clean soft moving blanket underneath.
First impressions:
The bumper is fiberglass and not bad. Some details have been considered, some details are not quite right for a perfectionist. And at least one thing is pretty bad.
First, unlike Misha, Tony considered the side markers and there are little slots in the bumper that the marker fits into
and the marker fits nicely.
The front air ducts are a bit squirrelly but a bit of sanding and care should take care of it.
Like any Techart style bumper, the front bumper support needs to be cut... a lot.
If you have headlight washers, you may need to trim a bit to get around them
The initial fit reveals the real problems
the top grill is pretty bad. The lines are off, and it doesn't follow the hood line well. Further, the grill is tight against the bumper in the corners, and gapped in the middle:
However, without much effort, the bumper goes on and the marks made from the mold where holes are to be drilled line up correctly, so there's not much guessing about hole placement. The fender lines look OK so I am removing the bumper for prep and paint which will start tomorrow. I will also play with the top grill to try and improve the lines.
Chris,
Looks like a great addition. I am stuck with my cab at 66,000 mi also.
Ignore those who have (suggestions) when you are half way thru your project and did not ask for comments.
Keep posting pics !
Chris,
That will look good when it is finished. I agree with you that a little time spent on fitting the upper vent will pay big dividends in the final apperance of the bumper cover.
Chris, If you post on this forum you are going to get opinions positive and negitive. That is the point. I see you are well into your project and i also can see how negative feedback is not reinforcing your decision. If you value the opinions of the people on this board you may want to post what you are planning on doing before you do it and see what kind of feedback you get. Otherwise just do what you like and don't worry about what others say. This board would be really boring and useless if everyone just had positive feedback.
Fissionx statement was not rude or inappropriate. He was just stating his opinion.
IMO the bumper looks a little over the top for a standard 996 unless you plan to follow it up with some additional aerodynamic mods such as side skirts and a wing.
I like the bumper, but the grey colour doesn't really match the rest of the car.
J/K - Keep up the good work. Good decision to keep the P-car! I don't care what the market value is. It's still "worth" more than 16k!
I think what you are describing is tourette's. Otherwise, we live in a society with manners, and spouting an unsolicited negative opinion is considered rude whether on a board or in person. If he has tourette's, all is forgiven.
In case you have ever wondered why a body shop runs the other way when you mention fiberglass, or why those fiberglass car club tuner bodies always look so bad, read on:
A fiberglass part is a lot of work to get looking right compared to a urethane part that comes out of the mold ready for primer. There are always high and low spots, pinholes, and waviness. In addition to hard work, some proper technique is necessary to get a good looking end project. If you're interested in doing even the prep yourself, perhaps this can serve as a primer on the subject. More than saving money, doing your own prep on fiberglass will insure that the job is done right and no shortcuts are taken. I spent about eight hours today doing prep, so it's no wonder most shops don't want to take on this sort of project.
First, the supplies:
A quart of body filler for fiberglass, polyester primer, 741 base coat, House of Kolor urethane clear, some filters, some sandpaper, a flex agent, a reducer and catalysts. Yes, a quart of base coat is $46.50. Total paint supply bill a bit over $200 and that's not including solvents and lots more sandpaper.
It's a bit of a bummer that Precision Porsche sprayed rattle can primer on the bumper. Under it is the gel coat which had a release agent. It's easy to remove a release agent with acetone, but with the primer, the only way to get it off is to sand which gums up the paper pretty quickly as the primer mixes with the release agent.
I am sanding dry with 220 grit by hand and a block.
The idea of a block (you will hear body shops talk about "blocking a car") is to get as large a flat surface as possible on the part to eliminate high and low spots and waves. On a bumper with a lot of compound curves, I am stuck with a 4" block. The technique is to set the block as flat as possible on the part and then sand trying to keep the block flat. This may mean the block is held vertical and the motion is horizontal, or vice versa. Lots of sanding on contoured parts is diagonal as well. I like to sand in at least two directions on each area of the part. By playing with it a little, it will become more obvious which orientation and direction will work on each area. The best way to tell is by touch.
A bit of filler is applied where there are low spots or pinholes, then the process is repeated followed by a light machine sand with 400 grit on an orbital connected to a HEPA vac.
During the work, some quality issues arise.
The splitters are attached with exterior drywall screws, although they are countersunk and the shop did a good job with alignment. These are removed for sanding.
Also removed for sanding are the lower lip and top grill which are attached with zinc coated self tapping screws. I will replace these with stainless sheet metal screws because the zinc will rust quickly.
Two hours later:
The surface is then blown off with compressed air and cleaned with acetone.
I am spraying with a 3 stage turbine and an Apollo HVLP 1quart cup gun. This turns out to be a mistake with polyester primer. The turbine does not have enough power to atomize the polyester. I forgot that last time I sprayed polyester I thinned with xylene. The end result is a lot of orange peel and a lot more work blocking the primer.
The polyester primer has great adhesion and build so any unseen low spots will be easy to block out after the primer cures.
And of course, that means more sanding. The weather is not my friend in So Cal today so the primer remains a bit tacky making sanding even tougher. I won't have time tomorrow, so I plug on and block the primer with wet 400 on a 4" block and then finish with 800 on an orbital.
Lot's of hours of prep and f#$% Techart for all the compound curves. The only way to sand them out is with fingers or some creative blocks. I chose the handle of a paintbrush with 220 wrapped around it, and fingers. This is a tough bumper to prep, but it's doable. The prep is an experienced DIY and if you take your time, the results will be better than most body shops.
The paint? Well, unless you are adventurous or have some experience, stop at the prep and hand it off to a body shop.
the only reason that the bumper looks oversized...is because it isn't painted yet!!DUH!!!!
I have seen these bumpers on other P-cars and they look pretty damn sexy and very 21st century.....
Don't forget to keep posting your progress..... I love to see mods especially the self done ones!!
very nice work! Sounds like youve done this before... what are you going to do about the grill? Do you add filler to the middle section to fill in the gaps or shave the corner edges off to create more gap.
What I like about this bumper... is the divider between the intake... it gives it a bit of the Porsche GT2 look.... Please more pics when you get a chance.
I am not sure about the grill yet. I worked on the top lines of the bumper as much as possible, but it's going to take a lot more fitting of the grill to get it right. I may have to grind and then add some cloth. I am planning on scribing a template of the hood line and transferring the radius to the grill. I'll post pics of how that's done.
Impressive work. Can't wait to see the end result. I just started doing a lot of DIY'ing on my P-car and I'm really enjoying it (did my first oil chance yesterday which was a lot easier than I expected). Although I did a lot of bolt on work on my last few cars for whatever reason, I've been a bit intimidated by the 996. Watching threads like this give me more and more inspiration to do more to my car.
his post was neither ignorant, nor insulting, nor rude. He said it was oversized. Rude would have been saying "man, that bumper looks like crap".
I see nothing offensive about his post aside from that it didn't mesh with your expectations of high fives all around.
Back to the title of the OP--not a bad idea! Nothing like going out looking at BMW M3s to make our 996 interior, exterior, etc, look great . ..
My next tweaks? I have done a few obvious ones (wheels, shocks, muffler) but now thinking of some of the more "debatable" ones, namely a new cold air intake and/or Softronic flash.
PS: Thanks for the step by step. I save all of these and they seem to come in handy somewhere along the line.
Actually it is all three. It's rude and insulting. Ignorant, yes. FYI, free speech is legal in Iraq. He should perhaps pick a totalitarian regime rather than a fledgling democracy as an example. I really don't care, other than I wish this forum had more members who practiced a little etiquette. It makes a nice difference. Stop by the 356 or classic car forums some time and find out. People get hammered for those types of comments.
Probably not a good idea to try to inject civility into this forum. Either you have it or you don't. I do notice however the negatives come exclusively from the non paying members, draw your own conclusions.
That's my last comment about the negatives. If you're not interested in the upgrade, read something else.
Bumper is primed and blocked, time for color.
First, a word on paint technology (this becomes important if you DIY painting)
Paint has two types of bonding: mechanical adhesion and chemical adhesion.
Mechanical adhesion is a grabbing effect which happens microscopically as well as larger. This is why paint bonds better to a sanded surface because of all the rough places to grab hold of.
Chemical adhesion is when one coat "burns in" to another.
With lacquer based paints, the solvent causes the paint to soften so no matter how long a lacquer has dried, the next coat will always burn in. This is what makes French polishing work, if you're familiar.
With most other paints, one coat sits on another. Without a good mechanical bond, paint can peel off. Now that you know, you can decide how to apply multiple coats of paint...
The first coat is the base coat. This is an acetone based paint (lacquer) so coats will burn in. When spraying without a booth, this becomes invaluable. Any errors can be fixed with a quick touchup that will burn in. I am spraying a single component base coat which is 741 black with a reducer. The reducer is the solvent so the paint can be sold under VOC laws with the reducer added later.
Spraying base is very tricky but, with base, everything is fixable. Leave a little paint in the gun for touchup. The paint sags and runs very easily so there may be some sanding required. Because base coats burn in, there is no problem recoating a repair.
Because I am spraying without a spray booth, I like to sand the basecoat to leave a perfect surface for the clear. I chose to dry sand with 400 which reveals any high and low spots. Around a high spot, the paint is shinier while the high spot is sanded off. The same is true in low spots. Here's what a sag looks like during sanding. The high part of the sag is scuffed while the area around is still shiny.
After the first sanding, I wet sand with 800
Once the surface is smooth with no imperfections, it's time to mix the clear.
The clear coat is an acrylic urethane with a catalyst and for bumpers a flex additive. The flex is more important with polyurethane parts but I am adding it just in case I need to flex a bit for install.
The surface is blown off with compressed air and then tacked with a tack rag.
Clear coats do not burn in once they are dry. Also, because mechanical adhesion is prone to peeling, especially with the rigorous environment car paint is subjected to, there is a different technique. Clear is sprayed in multiple coats, one right on top of the other before the paint has a chance to dry. This makes a single thicker coat without sags or runs. The typical technique is to first spray a tack coat, this is a light coat that is given a bit of time (10 minutes is enough) to get tacky. Then, multiple coats of clear can be applied wet over wet with very little chance of runs or sags. This is the most difficult part of spraying without a booth. The surface must be perfect, and any dust that lands in the first coat is buried under the subsequent coats forever. Ahh well, a councours paint job this isn't, although once you know what to look for, you will notice how most body shops can't get a perfect clear either. The advantage of the DIY paint is knowing that you have applied a thick enough clear for long term protection and will have the ability to flatten and polish the paint sufficiently. More on that later.
Next up, color sand and buff which means, of course, more sanding...
Years of practice on furniture.
Yes, it's very rare to see paint that is as high quality as most 996s. There are lots of things to look for, sags being one (any worthwhile shop will paint without sags though.) I am color sanding and buffing next which will reveal several more shortcuts most shops take.
Thanks, hope it helps,
either to paint, or evaluate a body shop or parts supplier.
As you can see with the concurrent thread on how much to paint an aero kit, that's only half the question. There are a lot of body shops that do no hand sanding, spray base, 1 coat clear and done. Obviously this is vastly different from what is required for a quality paint job.
Great post, thanks for all the knowledge. Can't wait to see what it looks like when it's all done.
How much money are you actually saving compared to buying a ready to go bumper from Techart?
Salayc, this is one of my favorites threads. I love your attention to detail. It's mind-boggling what goes into preparing a bumper (or any other part) for painting.
I have a quick question: what are the advantages or disadvantages of having a fiberglass bumper vs a urethane one? Is the damage much worse if (heaven forbid) you're in an accident or can the fiberglass be repaired whereas the urethane bumper generally has to be replaced?
Anyway, really great write-up and super-informative. If there is one thing I'm taking away, it's that 'sanding' is an INTEGRAL and TEDIOUS part of the process, eh?
Very impressive work. And your dedication seems to have run off the trolls....... a great bonus baby!!!!!!!!!!
I can turn a wrench, but I am hopeless at finish work. Your talent is inspiring!
My costs are: $1050 bumper. $200 splitters. $250 paint and supplies. I do have a lot of equipment though. My actual cost is around $1500.
I don't know what the Techart bumper costs. I have read $4500 unpainted. Their website lists the 997 bumpers as polyurethane, but I have read the 996 bumpers are fiberglass.
The real question is, how much of a savings to paint the bumper vs. a body shop, and that is very subjective. I think a bumper like this could be prepped and painted well (the subjective part) for around $750. However, I think I would find a lot of flaws in a $750 prep and paint on fiberglass.
If you are considering a fiberglass bumper and want a perfect finish I think the best way to get it is to prep yourself and then send out for paint. You could color sand and buff yourself although I am never comfortable doing that without knowing how the clear was applied. Talk to the body shop about how they prep fiberglass and you will know more about what the end product will be.
They say, painting is prep. You could say painting is sanding because everything else is pretty easy.
Fiberglass in an accident, or even a bump, will crack but can be repaired.
I have twice come outside to see someone parked wedged into the back of my wife's cayenne. Once her car was moved forward, the dent popped out and there was no visible damage. Flex agent is imperative on urethane.
There are repairs for urethane. Shops use heat applied from the back and there are solvents to fix tears though I am not sure how well the tears can be repaired. If my wife's cayenne had a fiberglass rear bumper, we would be on bumper three by now, or at least two repairs. I tend to get a bit more room when parking my 996, so maybe fiberglass is safer on a 996.
Urethane also comes out of the mould very close to paint ready. In the case of the Techart replica bumper, urethane was not an option.
Nothing shouts "Salvage Title" more than that front bumper,--but that's just me. Can't stand the pointy things in the front on either side. It just makes it look cheap.
weather I like it or not is one thing....
but for sure - you are putting some serious effort into making this what you want. For that you get my applause!!!
Well done (or doing)... great write up and pics, can't wait to see more and the final results.
I know A LOT of people who HATE creamy blue cars!
with poopie color interiors (wonder how big hit the re-sale value takes for that color combination??)
Guys, this isn't a 'what do you think of my bumper' thread; it's a 'look at what it takes to get this bumper fitted to my car and properly painted' thread. We're getting some really good info here. Stop spoiling it with opinionated comments that Salayc clearly doesn't care about since he has ALREADY opted to move forward with the mod. And believe me, I'm all for personal opinions, but it's clogging up the flow of the info here. I think there's a 10W-40 vs 20W-50 thread that will interest some of you a lot more. If that doesn't do it, do a search on "MAF sensor AND cold air intake".
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I'm not so sure.
The MSDS doesn't list acetone
and Sherwin Williams associates a "unique state of the art resin technology" with the Ultra 7000 line, which doesn't sound much like lacquer to me.
I don't think this is a good idea in the long run. I'm no expert for sure but everything I've read about basecoat/clearcoat has been "don't sand between color and clear". Sherwin's specific comment on sanding from the
Product Data Sheet
:
I also found that basecoats flash over so quickly that dust and drips weren't a big problem. SW seems to offer a range of products to mix the paint with depending on temperature and desired drying times. Maybe an alternate reducer would have helped the dripping basecoat.
Just to be a picture *****, here's Dupont ChromaBase applied to the nose of my Factory Five Cobra (in a backyard booth):
and the Dupont ChromaClear. Clear is the challenge. You need just enough material to "flow" so you don't spend your whole life sanding but not so much that you get runs and sags, which are a real PITA to clean up w/o removing too much material. It's a real balancing act. I've walked out of the booth thinking "perfect", only to find a 6" sag line 20 minutes later.
You may be right, however the solvent is in the reducer which doesn't look like it's listed in the MSDS. To clarify I should say "lacquer like" because subsequent coats burn in and acetone burns in to the paint.
Yes, in the right environment, you're right. However, lot's of classic car guys and body shop guys who don't have good booths sand the color coat. My point is to be aware of the properties of each coat so someone painting can make their own decision. It's definitely not what the pros do.
What really helps is to tune in the air / material mix of the gun and with a turbine based Apollo, there's no good flow control.
Looks good. Glad to hear from someone else who is painting. To me clear is not a problem. Do you spray a tack coat first and then wet on wet? Perhaps this is where the turbine based gun works well.
Thanks.
I shot clear two ways: very light tack coat, followed by two heavier coats or simply two heavier coats. In both cases, I waited until they flashed over (not sticky to the touch) before proceeding. This was on the advice of the professional painter who ran a votech class I took and was consistent with the recommendations of Dupont for the ChromaClear I was using. Note that Dupont insists you
must
apply the clear within 24 hours or you have to reapply base. In practice, by the time you've cleaned your gun and mixed up some clear, you're ready to tack it off and shoot.
Interestingly, I used a turbine too. A 4 stage Citation with integrated respirator. You can't control air but the gun allowed paint flow and fan changes and (of course) different tips. IIRC, I used a 1.5 for color/clear, a 1.8 for Dupont URO (a primer/sealer) and a 2.0 for Feather Fill (a buiding primer).
Although I painted the Cobra, the next time I needed something done, I did all the prep and prime but paid my friend Eric to shoot the color/clear in the heated downdraft booth where he worked. He's good enough that when you drive out, you're done - at least to OEM orange peel standards. When I finish painting, I'm still only half way done.
For the bored, the following covers most of my painting fun:
http://home.comcast.net/~fennell18/cobra35/
http://home.comcast.net/~fennell18/cobra37/
http://home.comcast.net/~fennell18/cobra38/
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/fennell18/cobra39
http://home.comcast.net/~fennell18/cobra40/
http://home.comcast.net/~fennell18/cobra41/
http://home.comcast.net/~fennell18/cobra42/
http://home.comcast.net/~fennell18/cobra43/
That's pretty consistent with the advice I once got from a paint chemist, although you could probably wait 30 minutes or more after the tack coat. I have sprayed clear and seen the surface wrinkle but come back the next day to see it burned in. Automotive paint is amazing stuff.
Yes, I assume they want to the clear to burn into the base. It's the preferred way to do it, but if you DIY small parts, I still prefer to sand the base.
I used PPG clear with a 1.3 tip and an Apollo 5010 HVLP. I just looked and it is a 4 stage I was using. I need to move up to a 2.0 for primer. The atomization was good for clear though. I wish the Apollo had more control, they have a new gun which is more pro, and they have great customer service so it works well for us when we need quick turnaround for parts.
Yes, if I were painting a car I would love to use a downdraft. They sometimes are available for rent in and around LA. I just sent my Olds out for paint. I just don't have the time.
On my wife's Cayenne, the paint has heavy orange peel, but I have seen factory shots of blocking and color sanding Carreras. To me, my Carrera paint looks better than Ferraris I have seen.
Looks like fun.
Moving right along:
The paint is leveled with 400 to remove orange peel. I use 800 next followed by 1500 sanding with a foam flexible block and plenty of water. Not many body shops use this, but I like Mirka Abralon for color sanding. This is a flexible wet sandpaper on a foam back that fits on a 6" sander. It's great for removing fine scratches. I also use the stuff on cars every couple of years when detailing. It's actually easier to control sandpaper than a buffer when removing paint scratches. A buffer tends to heat up the paint and burn through while wet sanding is more predictable.
The idea during this phase to to level, then remove the scratches from the leveling with finer and finer sandpaper until you are left with a smooth matte surface with 1500 grit or greater scratches. It is at 1500grit or above that a buffer and rubbing compound will easily polish the paint.
The biggest problem with wet sanding is the water masking what your are trying to remove. i.e. the water acts like a clear coat so it is impossible to see the scratches that are left behind. Experience is important here, however when in doubt, polish an area, and if you see scratches, go back and sand again. When a paper has done it's job, it easily glides across the paint. When there is still sanding to do, the paper binds a bit. With a little practice, it's obvious when it's time to move up to the next grit of paper.
Here's the bumper ready for polish:
Leave the Porter Cables at home, polishing paint requires horsepower. I use a 7" rotary buffer with a synthetic wool pad and 3m rubbing compound as the first step.
And here is the bumper after the first pass. No orange peel or waviness in sight.
Next, the bumper gets fit for a final polish and I get to work on the grill.
Good job on keeping the car!
Anyone have a finished pic of this bumper on the car? It does look rather large but it might be the paint. If it were me Id shave down those saber tooth fangs on the front.
There you go, glad to see your progress!
I hope you found some gloves somewhere along the line for the wet-sanding, I can remember my fingers becoming little pieces of meat when I did my '62.
