WTB C4S Tip - couple of questions...

Firstly, I'm back and have come to my senses after a Porsche "sabbatical" of several years having owned a 951 until around 2005 (Rennlist was an excellent information exchange at that time and it looks like it hasn't changed ). What have I been up to meanwhile? Well, I had a couple of years with an E39 M5 which was a fantastic car but manual which was a pain on my daily runs in traffic) and then switched to a E46 330Ci Cab Tip which I still have. Great car in the summer but ... well, not fast enough, fun enough etc. Midlife crisis now dictates that I return to the Porsche fold ... Firstly, I'm based in Geneva, Switzerland so won't be able to look at any cars over in the US (which is a shame since the market is soft and the exchange rate is brilliant for me ). But I am tending very strongly to a C4S Tip (Coupe since the 330CiC will stay in the family). That being said, I've identified 2 potential cars and would like your input on a couple of things (I've searched and found some answers already). First car is a May 2002 model with 107K Kms (US$56K) while the second is a April 2004 model with 109K Kms (US$61K). Both seem similarly specced (SatNav and comms, litronic, 2 sets of wheels etc.). Finally, the real question - what changed between 2002 and 2004? I know about the radio (CDR23 vs. CDR21/22) but nothing else (i.e. they look the same)... RMS resolved in later car? Improved Tiptronic mgmt (I understand there was a change in 2001 for this including 250 possible maps...) ? SatNav is DVD in 2004? Does either have modern comms (i.e. bluetooth, aux-in for audio etc.)? Since seeing either would involve a significant trip, if I can eliminate any travel up front, it would help. FWIW, I prefer the colour scheme of the 2002 (Black / Black) instead of Grey / Black of the 2004. Logic, however, leads me to the newer car ... Opinions / comments? Regards, Gary.

Gary, Welcome back to the Porsche world. Very little changed between '02 & '04. As you noted, the radio is one thing that did change. There is not a bluetooth or aux-in for audio. I am not sure about the '02 model but I do know that the '04 audio uses MOST. While I don't think '02 has MOST, I might be confusing it with another model year. Maybe someone else can verify '02 being MOST or not. Good luck with your purchase.

Welcome back.... I love Geneva ! I spent a 2 weeks there about 3 years back. We stayed in Gaillard France though because a 2 room apartment with kitchen was less money than a single room in Switzerland. Every night we took the train to the end and walked across the border to the apartment....wonderful place to visit!!! My friend who lives in Geneva (Ch�ne-Bougeries) was a gracious host and we spent some good times seeing the city (some of what we saw were things he had never seen and he grew up there, so it was good for all!) I hope to visit in the summer one day, but the exchange rate is so bad now I fear that might not come to pass. It was quite expensive then (for us) Very good to have you on board! Ed

Ed, I love Geneva too! She had a very long legs and a pair of the biggest, roundest ti..... oh wait..... you were talking about the place, not the person! Never mind!

Yes sir, and that CAT was the best piece of... whoops!

- 2002 was the start of the 996 Mk II series. After that, differences were minor to the end of the model run. - I think they used the same stability control for all Mk II's, but it is worth checking to see if the '04 has an improved version. - The '04 may be rated for 20 more hp. - One issue is financial. If you can buy a 2 year newer car for about the same price, it may have higher resale in future years. - While I would not consider the RMS/intermediate shaft issues to be resolved, it is likely that the '04 will have an improved RMS over the '02. Most important is to get a car in good condition that puts a smile on your face. Most of what you pay are entertainment dollars (the amount greater than what simple transporation would cost). The '04 may have more logical strengths, while the '02 may have more emotional strengths. What you know is that with patience, a black later model will present iteself if you want it. Hope you find a great car.

Interesting at the difference in Porsche prices in U.S. vs Europe. 996 2002/04 with approximately 60k miles selling for high 50's and low 60's.

Thanks for your feedback folks gota911: Thanks, I've been trying to discover about the radio - looks like there are relatively inexpensive add-ons for bluetooth and Aux-in fortunately. It has the Bose system option also, don't know if this makes a difference... ivangene: Yes, Geneva (Switzerland in general) can be expensive. But it's a great place to be though (especially as a family person rather than single) RF5BPilot: Thanks for the useful info - both cars are rated at 320bhp so I guess they are the same in terms of engine. It's an excellent observation related to the resale price; I hadn't thought of it like that. I, rather, viewed it the other way around and asked myself why it was cheaper than other comparable cars (albeit in manual form) currently for sale in Switzerland. The owner has confirmed that the car has never been in an accident, has been fully Porsche serviced and he is the first owner. He (by chance) owns an Audi / VW dealership also. Russo: yes, I had also noticed this discrepancy (vs. what I had seen related to prices on this forum). Clearly due to the rapid change in exchange rates I suspect. A few months ago it was 1.25 to the US$ which would align with your current prices. However, it's now 1.1 or thereabouts....

I'm jealous. Spent four months living in Basel and have made numerous other trips to CH. Amazing country. I've owned 911s for years, but was never as impressed as when I saw a C4 in the snow of Arosa; the match seemed perfect. In other words, I love your choice of model. Good luck.

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Interestingly enough, the car I'm more closely looking at now (the 2004 model) is up near Basel - a fair haul from Geneva but I'm sure that since I have the will, I'll find a way to get up there If you were in Basel, was it connected to the pharma industry by chance? Indeed, to qualify my choice further (which I guess I didn't really do in my opening note): The Turbo shape is fantastic - when I see them around, I never fail to be impressed; not the same feeling seeing the normal C2/4 It is for everyday use (come rain or shine) and since it's regularly snowy/icy in Geneva and the surrounding areas, 4WD makes a lot of sense (with snow tyres obviously) Given that a good portion of my driving is in traffic, it must be automatic. The clutch and gearbox of the M5 were really great and required no effort but I got fed up with the 1-2-1-2-1-2-3-1 routine. For more or less the same money, I could have a 2001 Turbo but honestly (and many will think me old and/or senile for saying this!), I don't need the extra power nor the associated extra costs attached I could also have an early 997 (but not 4WD and with no options - I love gadgets by nature ) I've got to have a 4 seater for taking the 2 kids to school sometimes (we've got other cars better suited but I don't want the Porsche to be a garage queen of any sort). So, there you have it. The logical and thought out justification for spending up to US$60K on a used car Best, Gary.

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RF, I have a 2004.5 and the RMS had to be replaced at 30K, so no luck there.

My vote would be for the car owned by the owner of the dealership. I would think that any and all problems would have been properly taken care of. Just my $.02 JIM

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Thanks Jim; yes, that would be the 2004 model that I'm tending toward (I completely agree with your assessment on things being fixed properly by him). Best, Gary.

Yup, pharma. Actually, it is my wife's job that has us in Basel reasonably regularly. By the way, I agree with your review of the turbo shape of the 04. I have an 04 C4S Cab, and to my eye, it's one of the better looking Porsches ever built--tied with certain 993s. Now obviously, everyone's taste is different and I'm sure others would disagree, but that's what makes the world so interesting. Good luck with your decision. Let us know how it comes out.

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Well, out of the 2 C4S's I've mentioned in this thread, I've driven (and eliminated) one already. It was a great car in superb condition (well looked after) but it was 2002, the nav system was the single DIN Becker unit, seatbelts were bright red (!) and my wife mentioned she prefers a more silver colour (includes seal grey). That leaves the the 2004 model I mentioned (same price and mileage and higher spec)... I will see this next week but now, a dilemma. In discussing with my wife, she has mentioned that we already have a 4x4 (XC90) and do I really need the P car to be 4x4 also? Fair point (based on my usage - more below). Although I really like the look of the C4S, I have also seen a 911 Carrera (325hp) from 2005 (997) which has the same miles / price as the 2004 C4S. Comes with PASM and DVD Nav plus usual extras (phone, sunroof, leather etc) and is Silver rather than Seal Gray. With the simpler mechanics, more modern / upgraded interior and more standard features, would I be an fool to pass it up or am I missing something? My journeys will be to work and back mostly with the very occasional track day. There may also be some long highway runs in the frame if my business life changes direction as it seems to be at the moment (for the better before you ask ). I'd really welcome (and value) your comments / advice despite the fact that I'm on the 996 forum ... Regards, Gary. PS need to do something soon ; I kind of become "consumed" when I decide to change car . Just one of those afflictions that takes place every couple of years (much to my wife's dismay... ). One day, I'm hoping to find a car that I can actually stick to for any serious length of time but I'm not holding my breath

Gary, You can't go wrong with either car, but if you don't really "need" 4-wheel drive, then the 997 sounds like the better of the two options. The general consensus here has always been to buy the latest model you can afford because you get the latest technology (within that particular price range) and design from Porsche. If it were me, I would pursue the 997.

I would pursue the 997 C2 as well if my choice is between the '04 C4S or '05 997 C2. If looking at a C4S, an '02 would be a better value choice if mileage is similar because there is very little car difference between the 996 '02 and '04 model. Most of the depreciation is already priced into the 02. Its not about resale value. Its about taking the depreciation hit IMHO.

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Gota911, Thanks for your advice, it's kind of where I'm heading with my thoughts I'm a bit of a technofile so will appreciate the new / upgraded gadgets for sure but am also quite keen on the PASM which will not only get me through the twisties quicker but will be great for long journeys with the "Normal" setting (from what I understand). Gary.

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Thanks for this - I really do like the C4S look and the fact that it's a tour de force of the 996 range but from a technological / practicality point of view, am tending to the 997. Having said that, the market is kind of bizarre here - the prices clearly reflect the odometer reading rather than the age. Therefore, for the same mileage, there is little if any difference in price between the 02 and 04 C4S's ... Hence my preference for the later given the other variables being equal ... Regards, Gary.

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Looks like I'm going to pull the trigger on this one (been talking to the owner, there are more options that aren't list in the add also like extra wheels and heated seats!): Sorry it's in French but it's fairly self explanatory (includes pics also): http://www.autoscout24.ch/AS24Web/De...winactive=true Best, Gary.

Gary, Nice looking car. Enjoy it. Post your own pics when you get her and give us the run-down on all the options.

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Thanks for your encouragement - hopefully, it will bring the enjoyment and pleasure I'm looking for during my (accordingly to some at least ...) mid-life crisis Best, Gary.