Porsche manual transmission sucks or is this one just worn out?

In the friends' manual transmissioned cars (current generation Ford Mustang GT and e36 BMW M3), shifting is a pleasure. The clutch goes in nice and easy and smooth, the shifter hits each gate precisely (the Mustang is even better than the M3 believe it or not). When I get in my dad's 2002 Carrera 2, it's a big pain in the butt. The clutch is heavy, very heavy (even my dad who drove stickshift for the first two decades of his driving life thinks so). If I'm wearing leather soled loafers, the shoe will twist as I push the clutch because of how stiff it is (I saw loafers because lace-ups are more rigid so they don't, of course). The shifter goes into each gate in a wobbly mush, shaking side to side as you go into each gear. The guy at the dealership insists that this is how Porsches are. My dad says the clutch was once light (I don't remember since there was a year or so where I didn't drive the car) and then he took it in for a broken cruise control and once that was fixed the clutch was heavy. So, is the dealership right and Porsche manuals are absolutely horrible, or are there some common wear and tear items at fault here. It's on it's 2nd clutch and only has something like 55k miles. Could it be because when that first clutch was replaced the flywheel had to be remachined (done by whoever these guys use http://www.autothority.com/ , I imagine it's good)?

His clutch is worn out. He may want to have another look at how he shifts. Two worn clutches at 55k is not normal.

My first impression was the clutch is heavy in these cars too... I have drove manuals most of my life. That said, I cant "FEEL" yours........ If I were you I would pop down to the dealer, and ask them to sit in one that is in and around the same year as yours... Press the clutch and compare. It should not be so heavy you cant drive, sounds like a problem, but go compare and you will know

The clutch is heavy in the 996, you get used to it. Jump into a 944 and press the clutch in and it will go through the floor because it's so light. The gear shift is long, that's why the majority of us install a short shift kit.

I just replaced my clutch. It was heavy before replacement and light as a feather after.

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Hmmmm, ok, I guess only driving it now and then every few months (I live a few hundred miles away) isn't enough for me to get used to it and in his advanced age he maybe cannot get used to it. With the gearshift it's not the length that bothers me as much as how wobbly it is. I mean, sure if it were like the shifter in my friend's Mustang that would be nice, but length doesn't really bother me.

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+1. I was just going to say that. I had become used to the heavy feel, but wow is it light after replacement (at 42K)

I should note that last time he had it in the shop my dad asked the tech to check the clutch and the tech said it's fine (it only has a few thousand miles on it).

How did the tech know for sure? Mine wasn't slipping at all so there was no indication it was worn except that it was heavy. I was getting the RMS fixed so they could do a visual inspection of mine and see it was near the end of it's life. If the clutch only has a few k miles and feels heavy I don't know what it could be. Maybe someone else will chime in. You could also try posting over at RennTech.

Both of my 911's clutch is what I consider normal. Soft soled shoes/barefoot not a problem. The GT3 has a hard clutch and shift, but even so I got used to it within a couple of days.

Is it possible that the clutch spring is weak or even missing? There was a thread on this about guys actually removing the helper spring or replacing it with a softer spring to improve the "feel" of the clutch. Clutch Spring

It's definately a heavy/stiff clutch but I wouldn't say it's to the point that it makes it anywhere close to be difficult to drive. Had an '87 924S and I'd say the clutch wasn't much lighter in there than the 911. Also, the term wobbly isn't one I'd throw around in normal shifting. I'd say there might be a problem there.

I wouldn't say it's difficult to drive, but it's unpleasant to drive. I'll tell him to look into the spring.

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It is a heavy clutch compared to some others. When I bought my 996 new I was coming from an Integra GSR, and the Porsche clutch is definitely heavier than the Honda one, even when brand new. I also borrowed an NSX for a few months when my 996 was new, and even then there was a BIG difference in clutch feel. But if its really feeling very sloppy, not shifting cleanly, etc, then I'd say something is wrong. I'm now at 85K miles, still on the original clutch, and it isn't much heavier than new, and it's definitely NOT sloppy at all. Bob

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+1

I'm pretty sure the dealer tech who said the clutch is fine was fixing a leak and visually inpected the clutch.

Hi, Don't mean to jack the thread, but is the consensus that a heavy clutch is a sign that it's nearing the end of it's life? I'm asking because I've been looking at used 997/S, and I have no experience with Porsches or how their clutches feel, and a couple of cars that I test drove had very heavy clutches. And I was surprised that the "heaviness" of the clutches varied a lot between different cars. Thanks for any reply.

In general, that would hold true that a heavy feeling clutch is more worn than a lighter feeling clutch. If I were you, I would attempt to test drive a low mileage or new '08 car to get a feel for a new clutch. Then drive a car with higher miles to feel the relative difference. It should be noted that not all clutches will feel exactly the same, even right off the production line.

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I agree with our good friend Tim, and also: what makes the clutch lighter in a new clutch job, is the new pressure plate, which has the new spring built in. I would check if they replaced the clutch, but NOT the pressure plate; usually, when you buy a new clutch, pressure plate (which has the "tooth" like spring, comes in the same package. After replacing my clutch, my clutch was super light. Soooo, it is not the clutch disk that makes it lighter, but the pressure plate that comes with it, which has a spring right in the center.

Here it is the brand new pressure plate on the left. The spring bellow (center of the plate) is what lightens the clutch, not the actual clutch disk (on the right). John

Oooh! and here is the old clutch. In case you are wondering, previous owner liked "spirited" driving. This clutch had 40 000 Km. The car now has 80 000 Km, and clutch still feels like brand new. Also very light on the pedal.

WOW, that old clutch plate looks terrible. I am surprised that it was able to grab at all.

I should further add that the shift sloppiness doesn't feel like it's in the gearbox but in the shifter. Let's it's made from flexible plastic that isn't fit together properly (then again, I haven't popped the cover off, so maybe it is)

Funny how people can describe, even a bad Porsche clutch as being difficult to depress. Even a binding release bearing wouldn't make a hydraulic clutch as difficult to disengage as the old cable driven American muscle cars. The hardness of the pedal is not an indication of anything being wrong by itself. It is the change in the pressure needed to depress the pedal that gives a clue that something is changing. As the disc wears, the angle of the release lever changes and, due to a reduction in leverage, there can be a slight increase in the effcort needed to disengage the clutch. Shafts can get dry requiring more effort. Air in the system or a bad slave/mc can also be the cause. You could also have a bad booster spring at the pedal. It is also possible that there is no change in the pressure needed to depress the clutch pedal and that it is imaginary. This phanominom exists with the brake pedal as well. As we get used to using the pedal, it can appear that more pressure is needed to apply the brakes. Yet, when we just lightly touch the brake pedal with out left foot, we go through the windshield.

<raises hand> Umm, excuse me, but if you want a shifter, I know where there is one really really cheap! PM me if interested.

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I wonder if that's it, as my dad says it was fine and then they fixed the cruise control and it stopped being fine. IIRC there is something around there that impacts the cruise control and maybe they mucked it up.

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It would vibrate while grabbing, but my fear was damage to the fly wheel. It turned out to be fine. Just before I decided to repair it, the Porsche service Manager took it for a test drive, and his verdict was to "just drive it like that" !!

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Well that inspires a huge vote of confidence ehhh? Then in the same breathe they say... "yea, but for sure get those muffler bearings replaced....." CHA CHING - $1700

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Did you check ou the link I supplied in post #11? That (the booster spring) is what I was referencing in that post. The link shows a diagram of the clutch pedal and spring in post #4.

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Exactly; in this case, had I kept on driving, I would soon have to replace the fly wheel. Also, +1 on the booster spring check-up.

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Yep, I was just reiterating that that's where my focus will be, at least initially.

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I was "taught" that with 1980's 911's, 1st gear was to just get you moving, 2nd gear was to really get moving to 3,4, and 5th. Also, when at standstill, or just rolling slightly, move the gears into 2nd then 1st. This evidently aligns the syncromesh and prolongs the gearbox life. I would presume the same applies to 996's - well that's what i do, and so far so good at 65000kms. I never "drop the clutch - 996 OEM clutches are "soft" i am told. So, easy the clutch out in all gears, then you can "floor it" when fully engaged. Hope this helps!

Hold on. I've driven a new Mustang GT and the clutch was HEAVIER than in my 996. Frankly, the 996 is super-light for me compared to my old 993 and other cars I've driven. Me thinks there's something odd about his Dad's 2002 Carrera. Totally unrelated - Want to feel a light clutch, try a Toyota Yaris. OMG, there's almost no resistance, I feel like I could put it through the firewall.