Peter Morgan on the M96

UK Porsche guru Peter Morgan has an article in the June 2011 GTPorsche magazine titled Hype and Reality (M96: The Truth). http://www.gtpurelyporsche.com/pastissue.asp?issueID=42 While you should read the entire piece, I took the liberty of summarizing some for the main points for those of you who may have already missed it on the newsstand or at Barnes and Noble. Much of this is now common knowledge in the 996 community, but rarely stated in such clear terms. All of these statements are quotes directly from the article with the exceptions of the general statements in parenthesis. The ellipses are mine, but I have been careful not to quote out of context. Reliability and General Maintenance Issues • Probable that the alleged issues have affected only a small percentage of the total number of cars… • … actual evidence suggests the problems are far from universal. • Officially, Porsche has remained tight-lipped on the subject… on the number of exchange M96 series engines… guesstimates suggest an actual figure of as much as five per cent of the total production was affected. • … statistically a small number and the good news today is that there’s quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to suggest that the number… has been falling as the cars gain more mileage. • … everyday care… is the key to long and happy ownership… • … consider oil changes as short as every 6000 miles and use 5W-40… rather than 0W-40… • Another key care item is making sure the coolant has the right mixture, is topped up and if refilled, bled correctly… • The Porsche coolant has various additives… Dilute the mixture too much with water or top up with DIY store anti-freeze and you’ll soon be buying a new water pump. • (strong recommendation to keep front air ducts clean from debris) D Chunk • It was a failure experienced almost entirely by the early 3.4 and 2.5-litre engines. • (various discussions of UK solutions such as the Silsleeve modification) IMS • Porsche identified the IMS problem from an early stage… • … Chicago’s LN Engineering, whose own data proposes that the IMS bearing will fail in ten percent of cases after 90,000 miles. • This is a very high estimate and, if true, point to downstream issues for a good proportion of later owners with the M96.0x engines. • Many owners will have read about the rear main seal (RMS) wear and the resultant tell-tale drips of oil on your garage floor. In fact, it’s often the IMS seal that is leaking… RMS • The RMS is the red herring in the M96 engine story. It just isn’t that important compared to some of the other alleged issues… Conclusion "Separating the myth from the fact is always easier once the actual problem can be identified. Understanding the extent of the issues – and that some are self-generated – goes a long way toward building a new confidence in an underrated 911 that has become a real bargain in the used marketplace."

I'm good with everything there except the oil weight. On one hand I hear the 0w-40 helps the variocam but then on the other hand I hear that 5w-40 is thicker and better equipped for the engine. Not sure who or what to believe...

If you're an auto manufacturer....who's sales depend on your reputation of quality and reliability....and you were facing a PR nightmare of poor reliability issues, that was incorrect and overstated, you would release numbers to prove the contrary and protect your reputation. Not to mention the resale value of your existing customers. The very fact that they won't speak about it, won't address it and won't DISMISS or CHALLENGE it.....says to *me* that it's real. THe 911 has always been referred to as having the highest reliability. Even Jeremy Clarkson, who hates the 911, said it was as reliable as a wood burning stove. All thing considered, the 996 has turned out to be as reliable as any other sportscar of the era. About average. YMMV sean

"Statistically a small number and the good news today is that there’s quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to suggest that the number… has been falling as the cars gain more mileage. Interesting comment." Interesting. Does this jibe with experience of folks on the Board and those who repair 996s? And I wonder what constitutes the mileage "tipping point" at which the possibility of IMS failure begins to decrease. (Please say 47,000, please say 47,000!!!)

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You would think that any car--sports or otherwise--that is subject to a 10% failure rate that results in an engine repair whose cost roughly matches the resale value of the vehicle must be viewed as a risky purchase. Can you think of other $20,000+ used car suggested for daily driving that fits this description... Does an M3 or CLK fall into this category in terms of failure rate and repair cost?

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I think this quote was more directed to the D Chunk problem than to IMS failure.

whether its 10% or 1%, it will always be a risk that even the best PPI cannot always find. Thats what makes it a game of russian roulette with a very big "clip" if you will. Prolly 97 times out of a hundred, you will buy a 996 that doesn't have any issues. Unfortunately for the 3% that have an issue, its a big bloody issue.

The biggest problem with the 996 is that it was the first water cooled 911.... as the same when the 911 replaced the 356.... people cried heresy. Ive been to shops here in NJ and walked out because of air cooled snobbery. My theory is, because at that time when these engines were replaced rather than built... the shops didnt make much money on them since it was all R&R. Those shops make tons of money with rebuilding air cooled engines.... the m96 threatened their livelyhood. Those were the people that spoke against the m96 the loudest.... that and the headlights. My .02.

I think the biggest problem with the 996 is that its air-cooled predecessors set the bar high in terms of longevity. Frankly, I think the 996 market is holding up pretty well considering D-chunk, cracked heads, leaky valve covers, RMS and IMSB--all expensive repairs. I believe that once the valve guides were replaced in the SC, 964 and 993 motors life was good--for a good long while.

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I think maybe you are forgetting chain tensioners, exploding airboxes and and entire series of engines designed without a head gasket, along with a host of other Porsche motor adventures over the years. Aside from the very robust 3.2 aircooled Carreras, 911s have always had some expensive engine malady or another. When you add to that the general high cost of European performance car repair in the digital computer era you get a recipe for painful experiences. Very few engines are rebuilt any more. Components are designed for replacement, rather than repair. None of this excuses Porsche for avoiding responsibility on the cylinder porosity and IMS issues, but it does perhaps put those problems in context. Historically they really are not that big a surprise. It also points out a reality that 944 owners learned the hard way a long time ago: just because a Porsche is relatively inexpensive to purchase does not in any way mean that it will be inexpensive to own. In fact, the more affordable the car gets, the more likely it will be expensive to own. Simply put, some people should not own these cars. If the cost of repairing a car could cause serious economic hardship the potential buyer should pursue something less exotic.

Have you all forgotten 911 Chain tensioner issues in early 911's, Head studs, 964 Distributor failures, CLE & premature valve guide issues in 993's ??? Ask an Air Cooled Indy what the cost of an Valve job / Engine rebuild is in a 964/993. Stop complaining - buy the model you like - and drive the car and stop whining. Life is a gamble...place your bets and move on.

I think people forget how powerful and sometimes harmful these forums are. Everyday I have customers tell me that they read "on the forums" the huge problems about the m96 engine. People truly believe that because they read on the internet that there engine is going to blow up at any second. We have a lot of real world experience racing these engine and they have been nothing but rock solid! This week we tore down one of racing engines just to have a look and it was in great shape (and this engine has been BEAT on for years now). We are going to freshen it up and run it for another 2-3 years. I get around a lot of the "old generation" of Porsche experts (one of the favorite parts of my job) and most are very close minded about the water cooled engine. One of the reason is because it is something "unknown" and don't want to take the time to learn a new engine. We rebuild a ton of aircooled engines and some m96/97 engines and if you think an aircooled engine is cheaper to run than a m96...not even close. I will agree that with these cars (boxsters mostly) are becoming so affordable that people are not ready for the maintenance cost so there are a lot of beat up cars with 20+k miles between oil changes that add to the problem. Just my .02

"I think people forget how powerful and sometimes harmful these forums are. Everyday I have customers tell me that they read "on the forums" the huge problems about the m96 engine. People truly believe that because they read on the internet that there engine is going to blow up at any second." This just made me smile because I remember the service writer and mechanic at my dealer telling me the exact same thing. They are now telling people to find something else to do with their time besides reading about their cars on the internet! I must be honest - I didn't know about the IMS issue when I bought my car in 07, I knew about the RMS but having owned a 1968 911 I was conditioned to accept oil leaks - except my 996 is bone dry. I still catch myself worrying about "when" my motor will blow and am considering the LN bearing when I have the clutch replaced at some point in the future, mechanic said he doesn't think I need it but if I really need peace of mind the cost will be worth it as long as I don't do it as a stand alone service. They are installing more and more LN bearings and only recall two cases where the original bearing was suspect. The mechanic also told me he is starting to see 996's with over 100k on the clock that are sound cars and on the original IMS. Doom and gloom is not a guarantee with these cars. Funny story - about a year ago I was close to buying back my 1968 911, my cousin owns it. While we were negotiating my father passed away and my cousin came to town for the funeral. So - I let him take the 996 for a spin. When we got back he couldn't stop talking about the 996 and then asked me WHY would I for one minute want the 1968, unless of course I had empty garage space. So - he is happy because he kept the 68 and I am happy because I drive my 996 daily, year round.

The IMS upgrade was just completed on my 2003 at 90,000 miles. Bearing was perfectly fine however was starting to leak oil past the seal. My Boxster had 119,000 on the original IMS and was bone dry. I have a hard time buying into the stigma that every IMS in a M96 engine is on the verge of failure.

Someone drew an analogy between IMS failure and Russian roulette... I think it fits. You either walk away unscathed or your blow your head clean off. No "in between". The truth is that if your IMSB lets go you have just about zeroed out the value of your MY99-MY01 996. I don't recall anyone, anywhere, ever saying that every m96 is due to suffer IMSB failure. If that were so I think a recall would have been enacted some time ago. I believe the anecdotal evidence is 15% failure rate. Unfortunately all 996 are stigmatized as candidates for IMSB failure. Why else would these near-exotic sports cars be selling at such deflated prices--surely it's not just the narrow body.

15%? Where are you getting that from? How many have you seen failed? I've read about them too, but I have yet to see one IMS failure out of dozens that I've been around personally and professionally. I've actually been on the look out for a broken 996 to buy for some time now. I've come across 2 cracked cylinders and one possible cracked head over the last year (that's across the U.S. publicly for sale, and several shops in and around NC). Considering 100,000+ cars made, that seems staggeringly low. Anyway, I'd probably buy a car that has had an IMS bearing failure at the prices people on Rennlist suggest they go for. I'd be happy to toss in $500 as a finders fee if you find me a car that's not advertised on autotrader, cars.com, craigslist, eBay and the forums (since I check those myself) that I end up buying. That's a sincere offer, dead serious.

I should add that I've owned several trouble free (to 110k + miles) 996s. My current engine is unopened at 159,859 miles, factory original. I've also replaced "perfect" IMS bearings for other people. I'm available to perform that service for anybody local to Raleigh NC by the way.

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Wow, you are truly a piece of work. Why are you here? Are you still looking for a 996 or are you simply another of the many infomercial hosts we have seen here over the last few years? 15% failure rate-HAHA Give me a break, more like 0.15%. Don't post your BS here unless you can prove it.

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+10000000000000000 I too have searched over the last year for a 996 roller to purchase and I have not been able to locate a single car for sale. In fact, not long ago someone posted here on RL that they experienced an engine failure in their 996. Another member of RL and I both inquired about purchasing the roller but, not surprisingly, we did not receive a response. My guess was that the post was an informercial which was not interested in selling the car but rather another product.

Hey dream carrera, still have the bearing you wanted to see, I sent you my address and phone number but never heard from you. If it helps I'm in Allentown every tuesday near the airport,if you'd like I can show it to you.

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I couldn't care less about seeing the perfectly fine bearing that you supposedly removed from your car. At least not enough to drive for hours to see it. Have you ever posted pics of it? You did not hear from me because I already explained to you that my parents live in Allentown, not me, and I only visit them several times per year. You live about 1 1/2 hours north of Allentown, so you are at least 2 1/2 hours from me. Do you ever get to the Reading area? Do you ever do any PCA events or car shows, DE, AX events?

Posted pics. did send you my phone number and address, at your request,but never heard from you. Why so hostile? You asked to see the bearing and the car and I offered for you to see it while it was still apart,but got no response.

No hostility here. Again, if it was convenient i'd be happy to look at your car/bearing but obviously I am not going to drive for hours to see them. Why would I do that??? I recall asking you if you were going to attend the CPA PCA swap meet in Hershey and I never recieved a reply from you. Once again, do you attend any of the events that I listed above? I attend many events and meeting at one of those would make more sense. Again, do you ever get to the Reading area?

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You had asked to see the bearing that's why I was following up with you. Seemed very interested at the time. As I said in the other thread I can send them to you. Surely you see your mom and dad more than just several times per year,I'm in town every tues am near the airport. As for pics I did post the pics as soon as I got a cable for the iPad,just search my name.

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I should have said the anecdotal data was 10%, not 15%. The 10% number is quoted frequently on rennlist and also appears on LN Eng's web site. I referred to that statistic as anecdotal--is asking for proof of anecdotal evidence sensible? Out of the four 996s that I have looked at seriously, two had suffered catastrophic IMS failures. Both were repaired out of warranty. Why am I here? To engage in technical discussions of 996-related topics.

I find it pretty hard to actually take these numbers all that serious. Mainly because the statistical bias in the source is beyond what we're able to correct for with what we have availbale as control points. Fact: The people replacing IMS bearings for a living mostly see cars with broken IMS. I'm not saying IMS is not real, I'm just saying most of us worry about it far more then it deserves. It's a high powered sports car, I'm fairly sure theft and / or accidents is far more likely and happens a lot more then IMS problems. All the forum "noise" about this once stopped me from going down the Boxtser route and I highly regret that decision. This time around, I'm going for a 996 and I'm not worried. Either way with a used car it's a gamble. Things happen. The article this thread is based on is good though, recomended reading.

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The IMS shouldn't scare you off a car,especially if you've got good service records. I have a cummins diesel that is known for developing a crack in the block( in small percentages). I don't lose sleep over it because there's nothing that can be done preemptively. The IMS can be changed if so inclined,so given it's a part that can be replaced it shouldn't be a deal breaker. Or just roll the dice like you would with any used car. Just my .02

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I use one of the best P-Car mechanics in the country, he has never seen an IMS failure, but has replaced many perfectly good IMS bearing on request. I mentioned to you before, you should look for some other car and move on from the 996's. You will never be happy with a 996, you seem to have already set up a lose/lose situation for yourself.

My Porsche mechanic, the best in Calgary, has only ever seen 2 failures that ruined engines. I went and bought the magazine just for this article. The summary at the beginning of this thread is spot on. If I had to summarize the article myself, I'd do it as follows: Look after your P-car, check fluid levels (and only use the right stuff), older P-cars with lower mileages that were occasionally used in "city" driving are probably more at risk, and most of the worst problems only affected the first 3.4 L engines. RMS is not a "big" deal, more of an annoyance (author calls it a red herring), and IMS failures are probably more rare than stated on the forums - and this is likely a big factor in why the 996 series does not command high prices and is not considered a classic by Porsche standards. In summary, cars break down (P-cars too), but it shouldn't stop you from driving them.

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Same to you chief. Unless you can prove a .15% failure rate, you may want to go easy on calling others out. If someone can make a living replacing IMS bearings, that means that its at least happen a few times. I don't think we can call IMS bearing failure a fluke. There is a pattern of it occurring. I didn't realize there was a rating system of P-car mechanics. Who says he's one of the best? you? him?

Based on no evidence. "Anecdotal data"..... I love a good fairy-tale. How many 996s were produced? Have there really been 10,000s of engine failures?

talk is cheap........... facts are rare. especially on a web forum.........

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I said it. What is your point?

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Point is, maybe he isn't such a good mechanic. Point is that maybe nobody wants him to look at their broken 996 motor. Point is that your story is an secondhand anecdote based on your guess that your guy is one of the best mechanics in the country, although you have no clue about that. He hasn't seen any failures, but others have.

This thread is like watching a few dogs chasing their tail, entertaining but really gets us nowhere Happy Sunday all!

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I never said there have not been any failures. You are wrong on your other points.

How about you two girls take your cat fight out back behind the trailer park. You've certainly managed to trash an otherwise informative thread. It ain't always about you, ladies.