27 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHWhy do winter tires handle so badly?
Leading reported evidence
Test by yours truly
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The advantage of winter tires on snow and ice has little to do with having a larger contact patch or the tread pattern--in fact, narrower tires are recommended when driving on snow and ice.
Leading evidence: 'Test by yours truly' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'winter tire compounds may simply be too soft' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Recommend when driving' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Other enthusiasts who have tested these seem to concur the the snow/ice traction is excellent as well as handling - unlike most snow tires.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
i use Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 and it handle great on dry cold road ( 295 rear ) just like my summer Bridgestone,very good in snow and ice and very quiet for a winter tire,i use Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
i use Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 and it handle great on dry cold road ( 295 rear ) just like my summer Bridgestone,very good in snow and ice and very quiet for a winter tire,i use Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
I suspect the winter tire compounds may simply be too soft to work well at higher temps.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Recommend when driving
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The advantage of winter tires on snow and ice has little to do with having a larger contact patch or the tread pattern--in fact, narrower tires are recommended when driving on snow and ice.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
i use Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 and it handle great on dry cold road ( 295 rear ) just like my summer Bridgestone,very good in snow and ice and very quiet for a winter tire,i use Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
i use Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 and it handle great on dry cold road ( 295 rear ) just like my summer Bridgestone,very good in snow and ice and very quiet for a winter tire,i use Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
27 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T190023Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
I have Bridgestone LM-25 V-rated winter tires on the C4S. V-rated is as high as you can go for winter tires, so presumably these are pretty close to the top end of winter tire performance.
But they handle like crap! Much lower limits on dry roads, even at the low temperatures they're supposedly optimized for. I understand there will be some more squirm from the open tread pattern required for snow, but why should they stick SO much less?
Put another way, is there a winter tire that would turn the same lap time on a dry, 0�F track that a PS-2 would on an 80�F track?
AFAIK, good "true" winter tires use a different tread compound that stays more pliable at lower temps. Performance summer tires get "hard" at low temps, and lose alot of their grip. Winter tire compounds are also not known for their longevity. I've used Vrederstein winter snow tires, and if left on the car will not last much past 10K miles, versus 30K plus on other tires. I suspect the winter tire compounds may simply be too soft to work well at higher temps. "All Season" tires have some sort of compromise built it, so as to work reasonably well year round.
Not all snow tires handle badly though as mentioned above there are a variety of reasons why most don't handle as well as people with sportscars would desire. To be effective the tire tread needs to stay on the pavement and thus snow tires tend to have higher profile sidewalls with more flex than performance Summer tires.
Having driven on quite a few snow tires, Blizzacks IME have the most wander/squirm/instability of all the snow tires I've tested. These are some of the trade-offs that result from increased ice traction where Blizzaks tend to excel slightly compared to other brands. The soft compound and many sipes reduce dry traction in many cases.
I can say from personal experience that the Dunlop 3D WinterSport tires have far better handling than any other snow tire I have ever driven on. Other enthusiasts who have tested these seem to concur the the snow/ice traction is excellent as well as handling - unlike most snow tires.
The improved handling may be the result of the fact these tires are manufactured in Germany and intended for A-Bahn use? In my experience the WinterSport 3D handling improvement over other snow tires is dramatic without any compromise in snow/ice performance.
YMMV
Pirelli Snowsports N rated are fairly good on dry when it's cold. I'd say there is some "squirm" for sure on dry pavement when it's warmer, but I really like em. On my second set of them. They wear out pretty fast - especially from fall and spring on dry pavement.
"..is there.."
No.
And for very good reason.
Winter specialty tires have less roadbed contact, CSA, to grip the surface.
That's why summer tires are so much better on hard pack snow or ice.
If there's no "roughage", looseness to the roadbed surface, for those winter tire treads to "grip" then they will be of little or no help.
My '01 F/awd RX300 has run on nice and quiet, comfortably riding, summer tires for 80,000 miles now, winter and summer. Tire chains ALWAYS on board for times of need, two sets during the winter period..
There are trade offs. For best performance on ice you get a soft and squirmy tread compound. There is a lot of variation between brands and models. My favorite all round winter tire (and we get a lot of snow here) is the Nokian. It is more biased towards snow-ice than some but superior to the Blizzaks in my experience. Pirelli Winter Sport is another good tire for handling in the cold and dry but gives up some grip on ice.
Your LM 25s will get better after the tread wears down a bit.
Really? Mine rock!
Pirelli wintersports on my C4S and they've been great!
You should get your alignment done for winter tires...take some camber out (especially out of the rear)
Changes they way they handle in the dry a LOT.
sean
I have LM-25s on my C4S, and while it's not the same as the summer rubber, it's not awful. Very acceptable for cold weather conditions.
Don't forget you're dropping down from a 10x18 wheel with a 295 tire width in the rear to a 9x18 with a 265 tire with - that has an impact too.
We must not have the same summer tires. My 4S on PS2 cannot climb a very mild slope on ice.
Accroding a seminar I went to, engineers have discovered the best friction on snow is .. snow. That's why modern winter tires have tread patterns similar to summer tires. Mud tires have an open, blocky tread similar to "snow" tires of old.
On ice a lot of tiny and very soft sipes work best according to the Michelin guys. Summer tires freeze at around 40 degrees and are too hard to conform to the surface.
W rated michelin pilot alpin 3, pa3 the winter ps2 ;-)
nice handling on dry, good traction on snow, good speed rating for the trips on neighbor's Autobahn.
Swiss Alps tested by yours truly.
Have not tried Michelin Alpin, but I have had Pirelli, Bridgestone and Dunlop wintersport tires and the Dunlop tire outperformed the others in all aspects of winter driving.....Had these tires on E39 2000 M5 and also 2003 C4s..........there is a drop off from high performance sport tires as expected...
As others have said, no. But, if you put snow on that 0�F track, then the snow tires would perform better than the PS2s.
I suppose that's why they're called "snow tires".
The laws of physics don't apply in those areas?
The advantage of winter tires on snow and ice has little to do with having a larger contact patch or the tread pattern--in fact, narrower tires are recommended when driving on snow and ice. The composition of the rubber is MUCH more important, and the same properties that make a winter tire work good in the cold make them work like crap in the summer, and the properties that make a summer tire work well in the heat make them useless in the winter.
Hell, it's illegal in many parts of Canada and Europe to even use summer tires during the winter months...there's a reason for that.
I figure my winter tires are narrower and have an open tread pattern, which (combined) places probably half the contact patch on the road. It's adequate, but if I horse the car around, they may stick reasonably well, but I'll be leaving a trail of ground rubber behind me. They shouldn't be 'awful'....but I don't expect them to be close to summer tires....even in Dubuque.
i use Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 and it handle great on dry cold road ( 295 rear ) just like my summer Bridgestone,very good in snow and ice and very quiet for a winter tire,i use Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D
on my Cayenne and they are very great and quiet ,
I love the Pilot Alpin but the Dunlop would be a good choice for the Carrera.
I had narrower Nokian and Bridgestone before and the handling was horrible.
Pirelli are another great tire for winter great handling and quiet.
"Whay do winter tires handle so badly?"
Has a lot to do with how winter roads handle badly. Hot asphalt is better traction. Then wet asphalt has as much traction as dry concrete.
There is as much variation in performance between winter tires as there are between summer tires. My experience with dunlop wintersports and falken HS439s is a good example.
The falken's are much better than the dunlops in the cold and wet. We haven't had significant snowfall yet so I can't attest to snow performance.
To the OP I would suggest that you'll have to do comparisons of winter performance tires much like one would do for summer tires.
Also, avoid snow and ice tires as they tend to have the worst dry performance in cold weather and can sometimes fall victim to chunking. A good example is the difference in performance profiles of the blizzak LM series versus the WS series.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
