Sway Bar Links FINISHED!

Ok everyone saw our other post about the prototyped sway bar links for the 996 C2. We finishing testing them through crappy weather, road racing, daily driving, couple of out of state drives... Results... GREAT!!! We ran the links with the factory sway bar and noticed the rear end a bit more stiffer. Less flex kept the rear of the car rigid and gave us more over steer. For racing we put a set of H&R front and rear sway bars on to increase our handling. Paired with the Agency Power sway bar links, they performed awesome on a track day. The test links never had bearing failure, corrosion, or any issues. We were pleased with the look, design, and improvement. So now we made them! Check out the "Official" spiel below. With performance handling in mind, Agency Power has released their all new Performance Rear Sway Bar Links for the Porsche 996 Carrera 2 and 4. Why sway bar links? The factory sway bar links utilize a simple design, ball joint and thin connecting rod. This style of links can be found on several makes and models of different vehicles. However, for the purist, the hardcore driver, and the weekend racer, these factory links are not enough. One of the first performance modifications you make in handling is the sway bars to assist with over and under steer. During aggressive driving scenarios, these factory links will flex and create a non rigid feeling. The Agency Power Rear Sway Bar Links for the Porsche 996 will change this immensely. These rear end links are made of high grade 6061 CNC machined aluminum. The link maintains the same thickness throughout the length giving it a very strong structural integrity. The spherical bearings (monoballs) are used instead of urethane bushings for longevity as well as reduced noise. The bearings are sealed to prevent from wear and tear caused by dirt, water, mud, etc. Each bearing is held in place with a C clip to allow easy maintenance if desired. All hardware is stainless steel to prevent from rust and long term corrosion. The stainless metal collars are designed to give the link the correct alignment when attached to the shock body and sway bar. Each bolt uses an allen head for easy installation. Finally, the Agency Power Porsche Sway Bar Links are anodized in Royal Blue and engraved with the stylish AP logo. Not only standing out in your rear suspension setup, but offering you an edition that will truly enhance your handling performance. Retail is $220, Rennlisters get them for $180. Let me know. Dan 1-866-44-VIVID x222 [email removed]

Where are the seals? I'm seeing exposed spherical bearings in the pictures.

A dumb question. So by replacing the links, the rear of the car is a little stiffer and thus gives the car a little more understeer than the typical understeer these cars have built into them? If so , can these links be used with the Row suspension? Thanks for the help.

Sorry for the typo. I ment to say by changing the links, this gives you more OVERSTEER.

Dan, Would these work on a Mk.1 GT3? Ciao, Johannes E.

This is what I have been waiting for... Woo Hoo... What is the best way to order a set of these links.. and to make certain... will these fit the Mk II GT3 sway bars.. Thank you David

Sorry for the late response...been building up our Porsche section here - http://store.vividracing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=38 Still a work in progress as we are always adding new items. The monoballs (bearings) are not exposed so grime, water, junk, funk, and everything else will not affect their performance. Yes you can see them, but the monoballs are built for this type of use. Similar to a HYME joint on suspension parts. Anytime you stiffen up the rear suspension including bushings, sway bars, strut bars, control arms, lower braces, you are keeping that rear end more rigid which will give you more OVERSTEER and flat turning. So yes the sway bar links are a building block to improved handling. I am running them with the H&R sways we sell and the balance is great! I did run them with stock too. Mr. C4 - The rear shock and sway bar setup is the same as the C2. So yes they will work. Apx2Apx - The upgraded GT3 sway bars are the same fitment, just different diameter I believe, so yes they will work too. You can call me to order or you can order online here - http://store1.vividracing.com/catalo...oducts_id=7545 Enter in COUPON CODE 0110a9 in the checkout field and receive 10% off. Thanks! Dan

From the looks of your car you are running the GT-3 adjsutable sways - so these will work with the 15mm decrease in length that is required i believe For the fronts - do the links need to be shortened as well? - Anyone know?

I read this as they are in fact not sealed, but you feel they will hold up to the use. FYI, it is HEIM joint - named after the H.G. Heim company that originally introduced these in the US.

why don't you show them actually bolted onto the car, rather than loose? It looks to me like there might be a couple problems: does the sleeve keep the link away from the flat vertical swaybar surface, or does the link come in contact with the swaybar? I'm no engineer, but... - do you want the link to be angled as shown in the pic? don't you want the link absolutely perpindicular to the "plane" of the swaybar? - on the other hand, if it snugs right up to the swaybar when tightened, you're losing the benefit of the bearing. Just curious, some more pics with the units actually fastened into place might be useful.

Dan, On the Porsche PET5 CD the droplinks for the C2 and GT3 have different part numbers?! Any advice? Ciao, Johannes E.

Cup Guy...If your refering to me...I am running the H&R sway bars. I also ran it with stock sway bars. The sway bars all fit the same, just have different diameters or adjusting holes. Mr.C4 - Take a pic of the underside of the rear suspension and post it or email it. Most likely the same as they have different part numbers for the year and model. I could be wrong. I could also send them out and if they do not fit take them back as long as they are undamaged. Chuck Moreland - my bad on the spelling as I type fast, and think later Like I have said in other posts...these sway bar links have been used in many other vehicles, the application has NO failure and is used in daily drivers, road racers, autox. Everyone from HI to Maine has run these in all climates for years in other cars with no issues. In fact ours our better due to the thickness and hardware we use. No more needed to be said. stiles_s... This is the picture with the links full tightened down... http://www.agency-power.com/images/996linkinstall2.jpg The reason that one pic does not have it tighten as I was shooting pics for our install instructions. I apologize. Nothing wrong with them! I have each step of the install on the hard drive. If we smashed the link right up against the sway bar, the monoball ( I should have not used the word bearing) will not be able to pivot. So you use a steel sleeve to give it that pivot point. Monoballs are more rigid, last longer, and do not make noise like urethane bushings do. If you notice, most suspension companies use monoballs instead of the bushings. Any other questions feel free to PM or call me Thanks Dan

Okay, but you haven't answered my question. I quote your opening post - "The bearings are sealed to prevent from wear and tear caused by dirt, water, mud, etc." The pictures you post clearly show un-sealed bearings. Are they sealed or not?

BTW Chuck...I love the look of the Old School Porsches...Post some pics of your Targa!

I was confusing in my wording...they are monoballs not bearings. Bearings, like in a skateboard are sealed but have internal pieces that allow the center to move. These need to be greased and kept oil which if not they gunk up and fail. THESE SWAY BAR LIKES do not work like that. The swivel or pivot point is the only thing exposed. The rest is sealed from the outside. Since the pivot point is a moving part, yes dirt can get there, but not build up and cause it to not perform. The tolerance is vey tight and there is no room. This part needs to be open like a HEIM joint. Hope that makes sense.

BTW here is the picture of the links after testing. On the car for 1 month. Drove to LA, Vegas, 1 full Track Race, Heavy Rain, daily drive 15 miles.

Heim joint is just a trade / brand name, much like Kleenex facial tissues. The proper industry term is "spherical bearing". These certainly are bearings, they are in the catagory of plain bearings. Spherical bearings are not sealed. Water and dirt do get in and will accelerate wear of the part. In fact the life of the bearing is dictated much more by environment and contamination than it is by cycles or loads. Spherical bearings can be sealed, but this employs an external seal typically made of rubber extending from the bearing housing to the shaft. Think of a typcial OEM ball joint, this is a sealed spherical bearing. Your product is not sealed. I don't have any good pics of my targa. Here is a couple of my coupe.

Nice pics Chuck! I will leave the debate in your favor. For those that have a 996 C2 or C4 and interested in the product, we do offer a 90 day warranty against manufacturer defects on the product. I can assure all users as well, from years of racing with other cars and using this product and components on other cars, that these monoballs will not fall apart, wear out, or cause you grief or we will replace them. We would be the ones to know, we use them, test them, and made them.

Chuck...these swaybars and swaybar links advertised on your site use the same type of design for the older 911..??? Why so hard on our design? http://www.elephantracing.com/images...rs/swaybar.gif

I'm not being hard on the design. I'm being hard on the mis-statement of the feature. An acknowledgement and correction of the error would have silenced me after my first post. In fairness to your product, unsealed spherical bearings are commonly used in this application.

Bump! Still have plenty here!

ok vivid i might bite - but your using them with GT-3 sway bars currently? what is the weight (grams) of these? what is the exact length of your bits? my toss up is - cut and re-weld a stock set -15mm or these - the stock set is cheap, proper welding is cheap. The weight might be less (but were talking small amouts here) dunno - this is not Linton quality stuff. But an important piece none the less. If bob linton made these out of Ti (or any other material) - i would pay a ot more than $180 for them b/c i would know about the little stuff. <edit>dyslexia sucks </edit>

Rob... Titanium would be extreme overkill for these. Unlike springs or control arms, these are not unsprung weight. Aluminum is actually very light and strong for this purpose. There is NO WAY you can bend these. I dont have a scale to weight here...but side by side the Aluminum ones are probably slightly lighter. The focus is on strength rather then weight. If it was a pulley I can see the point. I must be a newb as I dont know who Linton is... I have run these on the stock sways and the H&R sways. Correct me if I am wrong, but the GT3 sways are the same fitment, just larger diameter? If so they will fit.

Since people are on edge...I will give FREE 2 DAY SHIPPING TODAY so you can test on the weekend to the first 5 people. 186644VIVID x290

Ti - would be appropiate for these parts when weight is a consideration (btw - springs and control arms are sprung weight). for this part the strength that is required is linear not torsenal that is the secondary consideration - it transfers force to the sway bar in a linear manner. sway bars are un-sprung weight since they are not suspened directly by the suspension. so strenght ->light weight are primarly factors Do a seach for R.D. Linton in the 964 forum and you will see what i mean about his parts (which are not for sale btw.)

I still haven't seen any data showing there's a *need* for these. do you really think Porsche would design swaybar links that bend? Do you think they'd design a specific part for the GT3 and not have it be engineered correctly? they're shiny and pretty, but what's the point? You just said these are sprung weight (although I'm not actually sure about this), so a few ounces isn't going to matter. You'd be better off removing your sunvisors -- at least the weight is up high The link posted above from elephant racing shows a completely different animal, IMO. These are infinitely adjustable race sways, with race hardware. Also note that race hardware isn't always the best for the street. Unsealed bearings are going to get grit in them, wear, get loose and start making noise over time. There's a good reason Porsche doesn't use them in their street cars.

I am sorry I meant SPRUNG! Not unsprung Quick timing, not enough thinking... Do you think Subaru, Mitsubishi, BMW, or anyone else would engineer a car to have parts bend? The answer is yes cause we are talking about racing parts. Have I seen these thin metal links bend, yes... Do the sway bar links need to be adjustable like the Elephant Racing ones...not on the 996 as there is no room for it with the axles. The adjustability is on the sway bars, that is why you buy adjustable sway bars from H&R or such. If manufacturers made everything perfect, there would not be a Billiondollar aftermarket industry. Bottomline is things can be improved, but somethings are no for everyone. I have made the point of the advantages of these...those that feel if it is not Porsche then it does not belong...I am sorry, look at companies like Turner Motorsports that provide many aftermarket racing components for BMW. Look at Hotchkis who makes many sway bars, sway bar links, and such for many high end performance cars. Like I have said over and over again. These are the same factory links that PORSCHE uses that you can find on BMW, Subaru, Mitsubishi, VW, and more. And these are the same type of links that can fail, have failed, and can be improved on.

not trying to bust your chops.. 996 GT-3 stabilizer (sway bar) 996.333.701.90 (1999) Link - 996.333.069.90 normal C2 stabilizer (1999) 996.333.701.12 Link 996.333.069.02 the differences are GT-3 is thicker and has 3 adjsutment holes the 996 has a single link attachment hole. From the pictures of your car it is running a GT-3 rear sway bar b/c of the 3 adjsutment holes. the gt-3 link is 15mm shorter i believe i'm just trying to figure out what we have here and if it will work for the GT-3 bars in the rear - i think the answer is yes. my second question is it worth it over the stock part - i.e. lighter stiffer, what are the advanatages.

What do you mean "we're talking about racing parts"? Are you saying that Porsche's GT3, when used on the track, is held back in any way by its swaybar endlinks? If so, do you have any data to back this up? I'd love to see it. Stressed parts, blown bearings, video of the links bending, anything would be useful. Just because these parts sell well for Subaru, Mitsu, VW, BMW, etc, doesn't mean that there's a need for them on a 996 unless you can tell me that Porsche is using *exactly* the same links as these makers (which you seem to imply above), and therefore experiences on other platforms are directly transferrable to the 996. Unlike Rob, I actually am trying to bust your chops You're selling parts under the guise they're going to provide some performance benefit. I'd like to see data other than "look at how big the aftermarket industry is" to back up the claim. I'd expect that from any vendor, so I'm not singling you out. I was up till 2am with a screaming infant last night, so today I'm an *** on the internet

I have all smiles for you Rarely will you find data on products other then about the product. Comparison charts, video, and what not is not found. Yes the 996 links I have taken off are the same design links as used on the front and rear of a Subaru STI, the front of a BMW M3, the front of a VW R32, and many more. Yes we sell aftermarket links for these cars too. Yes they work. The only thing holding anyone back on the track is the driver...but to assist the driver in becoming a better driver in a better car, there are aftermarket parts which improve performance. I would love to forum argue, but phone debates are better plus I got alot to do today. How about I send you a set for a slutty price, you use them, and enjoy them... Thanks!

Oh one more thing...if your nice to me I will send you some free Vivid shirts and stickers have a better day!

BUMP

Hate to stick my nose into this thread with a long post, but I think there is a lot of marginal information here. First, the endlinks are unsprung weight. They move up and down with the strut/wheel/wheel carrier to twist the swaybar. The Porsche ones are very light and use a sealed ball-joint type of construction which I think I've seen in BMWs (M3?) but certainly not in your average car which typically uses a significantly cheaper sandwiched rubber setup. The Porsche swaybar bushings are also first rate. Despite being light, while doing A/B comparisons, the Porsche end links do flex more and this manifests itself in maybe "a hole" or less worth of adjustment difference. Unless you're running at the extremes of swaybar adjustment holes, you could go one hole more and be about in the same boat with a more reliable endlink. Also, the GT3 front bars are VERY different than the 996 (or 986) base bars. That is why you need the shorter endlinks. The ends of the bars are flat. The H&R bars are more like the 996/986 front bars in that they bend down to move the connection point significantly lower. The H&Rs that I've seen pictures of are either not adjustable or are not "really" adjustable because they do not change the lever arm length of the swaybar (up and down doesn't really count). You need to change the lever arm length to make the front adjustable which you get in the GT3 (or TRG) bars, but in doing so, the ends are flat. In addition to being flat and requiring shorter end links, this causes another problem. That is that because the attachment point is the wheel carrier, they pivot and can cause extreme binding unless you run the middle position (or softer). Porsche gets away with this problem by (again) using very thin steel end links. I have the original trick aluminum TRG end links and they bind at the two stiffest settings on their own bar (which has a little greater range of adjustment than the GT3 bar). The newer TRG end links are thus curved to better work with their bar. In the process of trying different bars/end links, I've actually resorted to making my own (thin) end links due to this problem. In summary, $180 bucks is a deal considering how much the Porsche and TRG end links cost, but considering their construction is so thick/bulky I don't see how they could possibly fit on the front of 996/986 cars using GT3 or TRG swaybars even if they were shorter. They probably work fine in the rear, but I don't really know if you need it back there. The front is the problem. Not trying to discredit anyone, but I've spent a couple of years on the front end link issue, and that's what I've found...

What say u to that Vivid?

These are rear endlinks only. They work with the OEM or aftermarket sway bars as repeated several times. This entire thread is about the rear swaybar, not front. If you would like me to make LONGER front endlinks, we can. The front is a problem. Because of the length and similar construction, flex is there. It is hard to analyze and pick apart a product when you have not tested or used them. But that is why opinions are allowed.