08 Nissan GTR - is it the real deal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jXrc...ver-tv-review/ Impressive and 1/2 the price of a 997 TT. Lets hear it.

It's been discussed heavily in the Off Topic section... C.

Yeh well done datsun, finally you're getting something right over there.

they've gotten things right for a while now. no matter which way you slice it, it's a beast of a car that's legitimately faster in every way than any 911 save for the GT2 which is nearly triple the cost. the only weakness is the lack of brand prestige (based solely on the insecurities of the market audience; should never underestimate), but that'll change in time. i have mad respect for it, but would i ever buy one? maybe not sure. i'd love to see one slammed on some 20" BBS LMs or Work VSXX wheels. heck maybe even 21s.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH8ix...eature=related Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFU0n...eature=related Even more depressing...after watching these clips

It doesn't matter what they slam it with, I hate the shape - again as I always state different strokes for different folks.... Peace

hate is a strong word. can you really hate an inanimate object that can't ever steal your gf/wife from you? there's always a deep desire to want it if you really do hate it. i think it looks insanely unique so i give it credit for that. just imagine this thing next to our 911. it makes our cars look like a damn vw bug for real.

Sorry BC, I'll stick with 'hate', I would never buy this car.... but again as I said before there doing something right so more power to them and mad respect!

It's sure odd to hate something you have mad respect for... kinda like how people hate or love Kobe... how can you hate the guy when you don't even know him? How can you hate the shape of it if you've never seen it in person? But I get your point... you just don't care for the shape or looks of it. That's fair. But hate? C'mon, dog. I want to drive one.

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It's not hate in the respect "I hate that bloody car", I'm almost convinced it's gonna be fantastic, what's not to like (except for the shape 'imo') price,performance and I'm sure there's more.... You know what I mean mate......

I believe the performance to price ratio is near or at the top of the scale. I do not mind the looks, much like I don't mind the 350Z looks. My desire to drive it would be fueled only by the performance. The car itself, as a whole, does not light my fire. Not even close to the level a "slower" 996-7's does. The Nissan just does not have the intangibles, the all around package. The 996 lines/styling, for example, has the it factor that does not seem to grow old. Maybe is just that bubble *** I love. The Nissan is far from "sex on wheels" as some of you rennlister put it. As far as my 996 goes, babe's got back, plenty of junk in the trunk to keep me

Still - I wish Porsche would take note. With ~320 hp in the base models, there are more and more cars out there that match or beat that. Would it be too much to ask for each model to bump up an extra 100 hp?

Why is this piece of Scheisse in the 996 forum? You heard it.

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And my question to you - where does the hp end? It's not always hp my friend but the overall package....

Sure, it's waay fast for the coin, but for me it's fugly and I will never own a 4,000 pound "sports car". Prefer the nimbleness of our 911s, gents.

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I love Porsches, but have you seen the videos? 4000lbs...not quite, on the track it out performs the 997 TT.

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I would not complain having a bit more hp on my 01 996. As the years roll on Porsche has slowly bumped up the hp. If anything I wish it was easier to mod it and get say 50 hp more w/o spending a ton. An improved standard factory exhaust note would also be a plus Still though, all in all I am very happy with the athletic capabilities it has with the looks that go with it.

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No problem...it's called the "turbo" and they're readily available. With the packaging of the car, the limitations of technology, and fuel economy to think about, I've no doubt that it actually WOULD be too much to ask for an immediate extra 100 HP. How much faster are you looking to go? Speaking for myself, my 296 measly horsepower certainly isn't the limiting factor in my C4 and I suspect that that's pretty common.

WHAHAHAH now it's so fast and capable you guys discount it by asking totally asinine questions like: "how much faster are you looking to go?" "When does the hp war end" then make equally insecure comments like: "piece of ----" "nimbleness of our 911" in regard to: a "4000lbs" sports car that will roundly kick your 320hp (and the 100hp+ ones) lighter car's **** in the straights, in the chicanes, in the braking zones etc and will likely keep its value much better since porsche is making tons of 997s and will surely make more and more of future iterations. like exlon, just admit you don't like the looks since we don't find every wife/gf beautiful, but fully respect what nissan has done and that it'll absolutely embarrass the living snot of our n/a 911s as well as our forced induction models save for maybe (maybe) the 997GT2. c'mon i know you guys aren't that insecure. man up and admit it. you can still be happy with your 911, but to even begin to discount this car and its epic performance level is.... myopia/denial/fallacious-absurd-specious-nutty snobbery of the highest order. look guys i'm on your side... i'd have a hard time letting go of my dated porky 996 4s for this car... just cuz i am a vain snob where brand name counts... i admit... with that said, the last thing i'll be thinking about when i run into this car on the streets is anything related to cutting it down... i'd be in awe and respect it for what it is and i'd tell the driver yo nice ride bud.. it is an awesomely capable car that i'm very happy to see in the market. it makes the competition better and that includes your holy porsche engineers... it takes them back to the drawing board right quick. the beast from the East is here ready to eat your children (your 911s) alive. ahem, now back to my flu meds....

There are plenty of cars faster than a normally aspirated 911...vettes, vipers, whatever. Who cares? If you want one, by all means go for it. I'm very happy with my measly 345 HP, and I'll be very happy with 415 in my next 911. To each his own.

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C You should try to limit your intake of meds. You were Fing dreaming just the other day and now you are pumped up on Nissan Look up from your P-car, not down Get some rest

Ten years from now the 996/997 will still be admired for its timeless good lucks, style and overall performance but the GTR will be long forgotten. IMHO

Different take (maybe)... When I owned my S2000, I bought it for the combo-package of fun, reliability (perceived at least), etc. However, the reality started to set in at about the 3rd (that's right third) time that it was ripped open, and all the interiors were taken. Each time at about one month of ownership apart, for a total of less than 6 months of total ownership and < 1500 miles (barely out of break-in). Each time brought in several weeks of it being in the shop, $1000 deductible, yadda, yadda. Sold it for 'whatever they offered' at CarMax, just to dump it and end the nonsense. A few months later, I began to look for the replacement and found myself oogling at many cars, but mostly the ones offered by Nissan (350Zs and the Infinity variants). I tought they'd be super. However, it all became clear one day when I was at the parking lot at the movies, and a kid drives by with a very souped-up 350z, radio blaring some of that new 'music'. And right then I knew that I should've stuck with my first instinct which was to buy a Porsche. I'd neglected that rationalizing and going for the 'safety' of a Honda engine (they are bulletproof right?), and landed smack in the middle of the most worried I've EVER been about people jacking me for my car, my seats, my wheels (i mean, who steals stock wheels?), my Instrument Clusters, perhaps even my life. Enough of that, these cars may bring a nice package chockful of promises, but they are still viewed as 'part stores' for the ones out there that want to soup up their cars at your expense. And to me, the Porsche has everything I need with regards to performance, in a very refined package, and the kids don't mess with them. My car actually brings the peace of mind that it will still be there wherever I parked it....whole. This Nissan...won't...you'll never sleep again.... I know it's kinda off topic...but it's my take... (nice...cute...no thanks!!...I don't even come close to the limist of my car anyway...but I always grin when I look at it...) Pete

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You seem to be responding to me, Ben. Take a look at my signature and ask yourself if I seem to be enamored by sheer speed. I'd rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. Asking someone how much power they're expecting does nothing to diminish the performance of the GT-R. I sure haven't been discounting the Nissan's performance...hell, I think I'm one of the few people defending it. I'm not sure why you reacted like you did just because I questioned how much power someone was looking for... Anyway, that said, if you're thinking that we're all a bunch of Porsche fanboys, I suppose you're at the opposite end of the spectrum; you don't seem to like your car one bit and openly dream of the day that you can be seen in a Ferrari. What's with the constant concern about what everybody else chooses to drive?

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Uh, yeah...I wouldn't be so sure about that.

I'm not sure if it's legal, but I'm a fan of both. I had a 350Z for 3 years before I picked up my C2. I loved the car for it's looks, price and performance, but couldn't stop lusting after a Porsche 911 (993 in 2006 that fell through, then the 996 that I picked up last year). My dream was owning a Porsche when I was a kid, not a Nissan. Owning the P-car is a whack of fun. It has plenty of performance. In this little berg I get lots of looks of admiration. And I'll admit it, there's some pride in having a 911. I quickly realized there'll always be faster cars out there, so I'll just relax and enjoy what I've got (aside from the suspension and aerodynamic upgrades slated for this Spring). Kudos to Nissan, that car's a beast in performance. I'm not feeling the looks, but that's just me. Hopefully Porsche won't just rely on their history and will come out with something a little more competitive.

I like the GT-R but have always had something against RICE BURNERS, not sure why. Take your base P and RUF it, after that the GT-R has no chance. Just my opinion. A

Don't care too much for Rice Burners. Sorry!

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Why do you guys automatically think any sort of critical take on the 911 makes it a you v. me thing? Seriously, check yourself on that. Think on it. And I couldn't care less about your 911 or your Miata or your cousin's car. I don't know you. Am I really concerned? Not possible. Same goes for you for me. If you don't get a sense from my posts that I don't like my car... seriously, you need to have read a bit more growing up or something because sometimes there's more info in between the lines than what's "on the line" itself. I'm picking on the suckers who are nit-picking and "hating" on a product that's a great thing for car fans like me. I'm hoping there are other car fans here as well without the chip on their shoulder that's so easy to read up on. It's disappointing to read, but then I've come to learn just like in the real world it's hard to meet good people even on 911 forums. You'd think with their wealth and success they'd know better, but it's the same deal. Money is not an indicator of... good people (duh, right?). Bottom-line, hate or love the styling, the GTR is a car to be reckoned with. It's an incredible accomplishment whether it come from the US, Germany, Japan, Korea, Botswana, etc. I respect it and will surely congratulate any owner who chooses to run it here in Seattle and abroad.

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IOW, take your car that already cost $10k more than the GT-R, throw another obscene amount of money at it, and at that point the cheaper car won't have a chance. Nice logic. And the term "rice burner" makes me cringe.

You guys are missing the point, I kind of agree with Grasshopper(Ben) I love my P car but the GTR is making a huge wave in the super car arena. The GTR is no Viper, Vette or Mustang, is a very capable complete track car...for $80,000. Watch the video and if you did, you can't deny the GTR is to be reckon with among any Porcshe model....unless you're being baise.

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imagine walking up to a dude and saying nice bratwurst powered ride... wouldn't go over so well. i'd love to see this guy say that to another GTR dude's face.

Easy guys, I just don't think a Nissan is worth that much, 70's, please!. We'll have to wait and see long term, how the car will do. Nissans in general don't last. How many 1970's, 1980's Nissans or Dat's do you see on the road....now how many P's? get my point? Also, I purchased my P used, so the price plus the RUF would still be cheaper than a new GT-R. I am not saying I will RUF mine. It was just a thought.

I don't think this is the first car, or even first Japanese car, that is faster than a 911...at a cheaper price. Feels like the NSX hype all over again. I am sure it outpreforms a Ferrari F430 Modena as far as lap time goes as well. I am as likely to buy a Nissan GT-R as I am a Subaru STi - which is to say not at all. Speed (or similar measurable) is hardly the only - or even main - criteria for judging a car. It would be like judging how good a meal is...by portion size. That said, I fully recognize that others may dig it more than I do - good by me!

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For the same reason you ranted in post 19 about my horsepower comments. Ben, you're the one that seems to make it a contest all the time. Should we take a poll in the 996 forum about who needs to check themselves? I'm ready if you are. Thanks for the advice, but I'm not sure that anyone cares whether you like your car or not. You always seem to be shocked that people that spent big money on their Porsches...actually like their Porsches. Did it ever occur to you that most of us could drive almost whatever we like? If I wanted to drive something else, why wouldn't I be? I'm not religious about my 996, but there's a reason I bought it (not just to be seen in like you and your wet dream F-car, LOL!) and I'm not sure why I should be ashamed of it just because we're talking about a car with better magazine numbers than mine. Have you even been reading my posts? I've said multiple times that I think the GT-R is a GREAT car. It does nothing to diminish my desire to own my 996, though, and that's what seems to offend you so much...that someone could possibly like one car over another even if the performance isn't identical. Sure, "good people" like you that respond to people's pictures with such insightful criticism like "that's ugly" or "you need to paint your seats". BTW...WTF is your infatuation with...painting seats? Who cares? Wow, it took your entire argumentative post to...agree with me. I've read your ****. I've given you a chance. Hell, I've defended your actions in the past. However, you seem to think that because you're communicating on the Internet instead of in person, you're allowed to be a jerk under the guise of "you don't know me". You're comments tend to be confrontational, then you act like you're taken aback when someone calls you on it. <cue Ben's "I don't care what anyone thinks of me" speech>

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Say, what would your guess be on the difference in usage and mileage of the average mid-70s Datsun versus a mid-70s 911?

nsx = hype? yea good one nissans in general don't last? = "" i'm amazed by the biased, provincial views by some of you... amazingly disappionted.

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WAHAHHHHHAHHAAHHHHHHHHAHHAHHHHA

I am not really sure. I have a couple of friends that have nearly 200K on their P's 70's model. I know you see a lot more older P's out there than any crappy Jap car. Also, Choi, take a chill pill. RELAX and know that the GT-R is temporary.

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another quality rennlist member

I am sorry - Ben, I think you misunderstood. I am not suggesting the NSX was not legit (I think that is was you are inferring by saying nsx = hype) BUT wasn't there not a lot of hype over the NSX (where hype means excitement)? I remember when they were launched, dealers had them behind velvet ropes and were charging $$$ over sticker. I remember the Ferrari comparisons and the "First Japanese Supercar" articles. I also know that the NSX did not ultimately, at least in this country, prove as popular as some thought it would be. Ultimately the dig that seemed to resonate the most was that it lacked soul. Given the comments from the driver in the video, feels like history repeating itself. That's all I was suggesting.

It's all apples and oranges guys.

I give kudos to Nissan for their efforts with the GT-R. Having said that, realize what they set their sights on as a template when undergoing this challenge...Porsche. I think Nissan (and others) have superceded Porsche in engineering in some aspects. The new engine in the GT-R is an example, as is the transmission, driveline..it's an engineering accomplishment - not so much a styling one!! We will see aftermarket kits taking 350's and G37's into close clones very soon..Porsche 911 is timeless design, 'nuff said there. If the goal is beating a P car as the youtube vids show the GT-R has done, then they've accomplished doing so - and, who cares? I had a '90 FORD Mustang coupe that would walk away from most P cars, straights and corners - all for about the same MSRP as a G37 As a P car owner and having owned a plethora of other makes before, I searched for a couple different things when looking at the P cars.. My 951 is just FUN - not stock motor or suspension - it's no drag racer, not gonna take down a C6, but, I LIKE IT! In searching for a 996, I wanted a widebody - not looking for ultimate performance..becasue I LIKE IT!! I'm a newbie here and it's disgusting to see others post using derrogatory terms and being P car homers. It's a public forum, everyone's entitled to their two cents, but, at the end of the day, keep it real, these are JUST CARS - no need to step on toes and measure your manhood at a keyboard. As P car owners, we're only people - we've been blessed to drive what's only a dream to others -- isn't that good enough? If not, you're allowing your blessing to be a curse - think about it

I hate the car body style, it is all wrong to be a super car. Performance is there to compete with super cars, I give it that. But it is definately not the car to drive up to Valet Parking and expect to get the same respect from the valet if you drove up driving a F, L or P car, unless that Valet is young. So basically this car fits into an age gap IMHO. Yes I used the word hate, I use it when I just watched a movie I didn't care for at all and really wasted my time doing so, and so I hated it. Hell, even NetFlix has a rating for the movies they rent and 1 star is 'Hated it'. So the word 'hate' is used in different situations. Hating someone is bad....hating something is not bad. That's all I have to say

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Oh no not the H word again.... LOL on a side note i hope everything is going well Steve!

So I see some true colours on this forum and some are very dark and others quite colourful. I did not buy a P car to get respect at the valet ???? Sad to know some do. I did not buy a P car because it is not Asian engineering either. I also didn't buy a P car becuase it is more realiable than a Honda or Toyota. It was its looks and race heritage that I have always admired...that having said the Japanese on the other side of the world has theirs too. Take a moment a count how many Japanese product you own and use in your daily life. You may be surprise how far they have come.

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Well I would think people on this and any forum should be true to what they believe in. I say this because, if you met the people in person, which happens, I would want people to know who I am ahead of time. I am wondering if I am 'dark' or 'colourful', doesn't really matter. I used the 'valet' as an example and not as to why people buy a Porsche. And I can tell you that there are thousands of Porsche owners that are not on this forum that bought theres just for respect and to be viewed differently in there life as they drive around in it and nothing more. It's just another car in there garage. When it comes time to take there significant other out for a nice dinner, instead of driving the DD car, they jump into the Porsche. Why you bought the Porsche falls into the main percentage of why others on this forum did too, and good for you. But again, don't think that every Porsche owner did. I can tell you I bought mine because I wanted one for multiple reasons and not just a couple, and I am not afraid to say taht one of those reasons was because I wanted to be seen by my peers has achieving goals as I grow in my career.

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+1

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Believe it or not, for me, I can only give a +.5 to this one. While I do like the recognition on one side of the sword, the other has me playing down my car more often than hyping it up. Call it my inability to accept compliments well... Anyways, I know it feels good to pull up in your 8 year old car and still get love, but honestly, the GTR is going to get more love than your 911 even in LA. Times are changing, guys. The foothold Porsche had when you were growing up is no longer and will continue to slip in 5 years if competition continues to kill like Nissan is doing here. Remember how a 3-series got you mad love in the early 90s? It's no longer the case. I couldn't care less if that chick/dude was rolling a brand new spanking 335 or Infiniti G35. It's all the same level of perception to me and that's a big change from back in my hs days since Infiniti didn't even leave any sort of mark with the G20, that I30 thing IIRC... etc. Progress... Porsche 911 needs to step up its game and the GTR is gonna make sure of it. So you guys can cling onto your 911 timeless stick for a bit longer and huddle up together in this 911 cozy corner of the internet, but believe me... that stick is starting to look more like a dated twig nowadays (e.g. R8). If anyone's got a shot at keeping its position on the throne, it's Porsche. We'll see how things go. My money goes to the winner. So enjoy your rides for what it is... so don't tell me I didn't warn ya when that GTR is getting much more love when you're parking lot pimpin'.

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SELL...SELL...SELL your car it obviously does not mean anything to you

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wtf

Back to basics GUYS.......Porsche....there is no substitute!

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Exactly +++++1

HEY BEN Do you have a deposit on the GT/R? I think you're coming across with an heir of hypocrasy when you nay say the very car you drive is a timeless design! Do you have the same feelings for the C6 ZR1? Surely the GT/R will draw it's fair share of attention in a parking lot ( MORESO FROM A PARTICULAR DEMOGRAPHIC ) Dare I say the majority of people who do and or/don't know anything about a 911 or GT/R would pay more attention to the P Car?

Not sure which folks you�re referring too in your last post? I don't need to personally justify why I bought this car but what I will say is that I don't drive down the road hoping people will just drop there things and stare at me in praise. A Porsche will always be one of the top marques in my book regardless of what other manufacturers come out with, prestige goes a long way Ben. Regardless I'm not going to wear out the tips of my fingers anymore as you have proved that your simply part of RN to bash and 99% add negative remarks. I love my 996 and intend to stick with Porsche for a long time regardless of what others say. Porsche doesn't need to step up anything; it's proved time and time again that it will always be there... Folks enjoy your P cars because there's a reason you bought one and don't let Choi's negativity get in the way � oh also I think you need to sell your poor C4S and pass it onto someone that will appreciate it for what it is�. Said my peace, unsubscribing....

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That is the bottom line. Not sure why all the hate over it. Much of all this is a bit funny and I'm taking it as that. I love my Toyotas for what they are and bring to the table. The bratwurst burning P-car just so happens to bring out the sauerkraut in me. No need to cut down the Japanese made cars over it. Hp is not everything, size does matter though The term jap car is weak. C C C unit, lighten up on those meds pal, go back to F dreaming

Amen my friend!

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I think I made it pretty clear bud that I wouldn't buy this thing or trade my pork4s for it. i can still love my car and still recognize game at the same time. it's not an either/or proposition nor is porsche or X brand car a religion for me, but i see this is really getting to some sensitive parts of Rennlist and i find it absolutely comical. yes, the GTR will get more attn period over any 911.

JAP car is short for crappy JAP car, lol! Just kidding. Take it easy! I bought a P because I always wanted one. Nissan has brought back the GT-R, way to go, awesome power and control and thats fine. At the end of the day.....its not a Porsche. Lets give it 6 months to a year and see how it holds up.

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Why don't you tell a Japanese person esp those that happened to be forcefully moved from their homes (imagine you removed from any access to your own bed and nice garage with your porsche inside it) to a remote part of the nation for no other good reason than you happened to be of japanese decent living in free America.... to take it easy. your life stalled that youll never get that time back, men women and children . you should give your $15 back. next

If you only knew where I came from, then you would keep your mouth shut. Try North IRAQ!

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Not any 911, just some. The newness and styling will likely wear off a few "new" model years later. The fun factor will not. Not many cars become legendary. Those that do seem to have passionate owners

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Something that not everyone on this forum has obviously.

Ben, I can tell you from firsthand experience the GTR does gather an initial crowd. As ls911 pointed out, it's the newness...I was allowed to do about anything but drive one and the same remarks I kept hearing from others was "mundane, Infiniti, and disappointed". It is a technological wonder - that's what held my interest as I inspected it. I concur, anyone wanting attention for at least 6 months should fulfill their wishes with the GTR - after that, they'll be just another face in the crowd...and that my friend I'll happily wager with you. FWIW, people are saying it's $70k ish, -- that's not the case, not even for employees..I've got a neighbor has worked with NNA for years and even she couldn't get one at MSRP (she wont lose sleep-she doesn't like the looks either). Look at $20k average mark up depending on region. One question Ben, name 3 cars costing less than $200k you find more appealing than a P Car. I'm interested in seeing what someone who thinks the GTR is an attention getter thinks.

Bottom line..as a Canadian I can't speak for the majority of Americans in this particular forum. But at the end of the day, you have a German machine in your garage not an American beast like a Viper or Vette. So if the German's are man enough to take their hats off to the Japanese, you should too. Patriotism does not apply here, be open minded instead.

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Regardless of what Ben says...i think you are missing the point. The GTR is a marvel & well engineered machine. Who cares if it is an attention grabing machine or not. At $80,000 (called Nissan Canada to confirm) you can't deny that you are paying more for just the P car name (which is fine with me by the way). There was more hype when the R8 was brought to market, but the views on this forum was very different. Why? because its an Audi - watered down version of the Lambo.

I'm sticking to my "apples and oranges" comment and not debating that one's "better" than the other. I'm closer to the "religious" p-car fanatic. But, I still appreciate and respect in some fashion other examples of heavy iron. No matter what continent it came from (yes even including Japan and NA). Am I going to sell my 996 for the freshest meat? I don't tnink so. A lot of my love for the 911 comes from its racing heritage. As much as I appreciate other cars, somebody has to start racking up some wins in the motorsports arena with it for me to start considering it in the same esteem as a Porsche. Regardless of the price/performance factor or even cosmetics is of the street versions.

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I gave Nissan much kudos for the engineering on the GT/R in prior posts..as for attention grabbing, I was simply responding to what Ben said. Reading comprehension - getcha some EH

blackness, omni, jake.. thank you thank you level-headed people. omni, along the $200K under front and i'm assuming used is OK 1) Ferrari 360 Modena 2) Aston Martin DB9 with mansory kit (i'm in love with the way this thing looks) 3) lambo gallardo but i've said this before... above the 911 it's very very hard ... heck above a $30K car these days it's very hard to get an outright better car unless you're spending double or triple the money. so in the 911 it's even harder to get an outright upgrade. the above 3 are examples where the pluses outweight the minuses enough for me that i'd trade my car in for 1 of the 3 in a heartbeat given the right circumstances. and lest you guys not have enough foresight and wisdom to surmize as such.. i am a big 911 fan and love my car, but i give credit where credit is due. i simply cannot stand "loyalty to a fault". what i'm learning here is that some of you have made the 911 and porsche into a religion and i can appreciate it. i'm just giving you guys another perspective from someone who respects the 911 and loves it enough to have spent his hard earned $ for it but understands there are better out there and there are worse and there are "in the near vicnity". this reminds me of that witch hunt event back in the New England area way back when from history class. LOL

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disappointing coming from you, we'll have to battle it out over some brews... just make sure you bring your porsche t-shirt and cap to the bar and let me take a photo to use as your avatar. the folks here would love u but i'm not sure the chicks will at the bar not that u care about that kinda stuff.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] http://www.blowdogfiles.com/08gtr/gt3/image17.jpg

Hmmm....those hips don't lie. I am an a$$ man Game over

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Wow, slightly more mature than the rest of your comments. Even while you're riding people about being 911 fanboys, you laugh at the idea that we've all got other options. I'm not even talking about your precious Ferrari...as I've said in the past, I've got one child and don't need to babysit another--give me a solid daily driver any day of the week over something that needs thousands of dollars of maintenance every year. Oh, I'm sorry--you still think everyone's biggest concern is women watching you drive by the outdoor cafe with 26" chrome rims <rolls eyes>...

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WHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH

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yeah, I agree - I don't care if it laps the track however many seconds faster...I'm sticking with my girl and she's got an A$$ OH WHAT AN A$$

Yes that GT3 S is sweet, but for almost twice the $$$ of the GTR??? I guess money is no object for you. LOL

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Who are you referring to? Geez, they spoke some English last time I visited Canada..when did anyone imply we were the owners of a GT3S??? Eh? I've got a 951 and C4S - both of which have nicer hips than the GTR

Wow, I'm suprised this choi guy has gotten away with this nonsense for so long. It's a car, and guys bought the car for a reason, and all of those reasons are not in a GT-R. So now everyone that doesnt want a GT-R is a 911 fanboy? What kind of logic is that. He talks about a 911 likes it's junk. By all means sell it, and a GT-R will never be parked with the TT's and Ferrari's in L.A., you are mistaken. Choi, get over yourself, loving a car, it's type and the experience is more than just track numbers, try getting Porsche service for your Nissan, try finding a local dealer to service it to begin with. Join Nissan club of america as well.

That's a Nice Un.

I have to say that this thing has been totally blown out of proportion. So Ben likes the Nissan, great. Even if the case was more so than his 996, who cares, his taste. No need to take it to a personal level over opinions, right? I like big butts and I can't deny. Drove mine nice and hard today, thank God winteris behind me. Peace!

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I actually like the GT-R myself, but it's kind of like the "911 versus Vette" thing--I suspect that for most people, if you like the one, you won't want the other. The GT-R gives the Evo and STi crowd something to upgrade to...I think they'll all happily co-exist. No need to bash either car, but Ben seems to be continually surprised that people that bought 996s actually, you know, LIKE and defend the 996. His posting style bears much resemblance to the action of walking into a Harley bar and asking loudly "Hey, buddy, is that your Honda out front?"

Why is it so shocking to some not to like the GT-R? I think the Enzo is about as ugly as it could be, am I blind as well? And nobody knows that much about the GT-R (me included) beyond spec sheets and pictures. Wait till we can actually drive one! Isn't that the real test?

Because some people think that because a magazine calls the GT-R a better car than the Turbo based on track figures, that no one should any longer want a 911. The influence of the media over the feeble minded is very astonishing.

Im loving it I hope you all can handle the pictures, just dont kill me Its realy BIG!

WOW that is big...looks like a Maxima on 'roids

Siq pics - I can't wait to see one lowered on some proper Work mesh wheels or something to that effect. i love that **** shot with the deck wing. My buddy was in Tokyo recently and told me the GTR looks stunning in person (he's the one who owns the Ferrari I drove with the nice aesthetic/sound mods).

Pretty cool looking car but, IMHO, the front looks a little cluttered or something...not really sure. With that said, I am a FAN of Porsche and was even back when I was driving BMWs and earlier when I had a Toyota Celica in the early 80's which, BTW, was an INCREDIBLE car. But, as I said, I'm a FAN of Porsche, as are I think a lot of people on this site. Therefore we, by defintion, tend to defend our "team" vehemently and can't understand when some seem to imply, "it's just a car", referring to the 911. And please, I don't want anyone to think I'm talking about anyone in particular. The problem is that sometimes fans get a little blinded and go overboard in defense of their side. But every year there are cars that come out and the press says "Ok, this is the next 911 killer", and then they fade away from the forefront. Who's left? The 911...still taking shots and standing up to all assaults. There are LOTS of great cars out there and many outperform the 911 in one way or another but they are not icons...and the 911 is no paper tiger, simply sitting back, resting on its laurels.

I've loved the Porsche 911 all my life, with passion but not prejudice. I think most of us fully acknowlege there are other cars with better specs, numbers, prestige, pricing, etc. Ben, I'm not entirely clear as to why you'd equate that passion with disparagement of the GT-R? One has nothing to do with the other. I know you're already aware of what all goes into making a car "better" to an owner. The fact that I thoroughly love and want my 911 much more has nothing to do with how fast the GT-R laps, how much cheaper it is, or where it originates. I couldn't be happier that Godzilla is back and meaner than ever. Cars like the GT-R are great for the car enthusiast community all over the world. I love it, but certainly nowhere to the point of replacing my 911. I don't drive my Porsche down the streets constantly verifying the admiration from the ladies, onlookers, or valets on a daily basis to validate my purchase decision and ownership experience. I also don't frequent the dealerships to feel self-important. I certainly don't peruse the periodicals mag-racing just to ensure self-affirmation. I fully respect all opinions of the 911 or Porsche brand that are vastly different from mine, but none of that diminishes my passion and desire to own one. More importantly, other manufacturers' products (no matter how "spectacular") have no impact on my quest. Just as I wouldn't think any more or less of my wife, with regards to public opinion or the caliber of other guys' wives. Perhaps some of us have expressed their passion in a "negative" manner, but I don't recall anyone disparaging the GT-R's performance numbers. They may not think of it as highly as you and I do, and that's fine too.

this is insane but still love my Targa. http://youtube.com/watch?v=yDoJdQXmwu8

Again, just my opinion, but those pics confirm what I thought before - aesthetically the car is choppy, lacks balance, looks like molded plastic and is some kind of ugly. I mean if you are critical of the new design ethic at BMW this has got to send shivers up your spine. dan

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Read the thread bud read the thread... these guys are scared out of their minds and are expressing it via excuses outside of the silly **** comments about the car to make it less than what it is. typical. seriously. and fellas complaining about the looks of the car pls feel free to post up pics of YOUR 911. let's see how your 911 is so pure and classic.

Geeee in even looks good in RED. Love the agressive angles, it reminds me when I liked Volvo 740 TOP SECRET already got their hands on one, looking great! And two last pictures... One more, this chrome wheels realy does the UGLINESS on a nice car like this!

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I did read the whole thread, and what I gathered were some subjective criticisms of styling, iconic stature, emotional feel, brand prestige, etc., which weren't totally baseless. Are you seriously going to debate someone's personal preference? Lest you forgot, the styling, iconic stature, emotional feel, and brand prestige were the very same factors you valued in your comparison of the F-car and P-car. The GT-R isn't less than what it is. It's everything just like its predecessor. Most of us (911 die-hards) just don't think it's a "better" car than a 911. You needn't pop a vein over someone's passion.

it's not just personal pref... it's the way they spill words out like hate... and then talk about timeless design of the 911...and when's the hp war gonna end? it's an either/or proposition for these dudes - it's totally comical. do you understand and see beyond or are you just... like i said, it's a religious thing and i find it comical people make a damn material good into a religion. and if you can see my veins, i advise you stay a few feet away from me as i have the flu. and as for my f-car comparison... i'm not anywhere near words like "hate" and describing my porsche, my 911 as anything but good and well sorted out. do you see the nuance here? c'mon man. i know you're smarter than that. most of you are advanced degree dudes aren't you? i'm the lowly undergrad BA - Business guy.

Ben, if you haven't realized by now, I tend to ignore posts with such careless use of superlatives. Words like "hate" or "POS," unless used in jest, aren't worth the time for a response. There's nothing for me to read or see beyond. Why you bother to address them is what's beyond me.

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because it's posted by rennlist members and because we're on a porsche website so the whole point is to respond and engage

Go to the Off-Topic board B.C. if you want to engage, not a board that brings fellow 996 enthuasists together to discuss there passion and love for such a wonderful car. Moderator...close this out of control thread or move it to the off-topic, it does not belong on the 996 board. Why is it here in the first place

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Ha, listen to the continual comparisons to what -- WHAT?? 911 Turbo..timeless classic, benchmark of sporting heritage. Here's another view of the "GTR" To each their own - I've exhausted saying Nissan has made technological advances (some surpassing the 911), but, having seen the car in person, touched it, heard it, watched it in motion - aesthetically, it's a flash in the pan. I inquired with my neighbor this morning about real sales pricing and volume. First year approx. 2400, followed by a five year run with a continual decline in production ending in 2013 with fewer than 800 units! If anything this may be a viable option to expanding your portfolio!!

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why don't you come on up and take over my mouse and keyboard LOL

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Officially blocked

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a lil' sensitive these days? btw you're welcome for the help with OZ wheel fitment bud

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HA!! Seriously!! For a "man" with tattoos (oooooh) and into "death rock" and the like - what a sensitive lil guy

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i'll never take it to the personal level like this esp with speeddemon, but yea i am surprised why he'd block me (not that I really care about it, but do care since it's so abrupt) because of the things i said here. it's as if i made fun of him or his car (in porsche heaven now). i guess he just had to get out of the kitchen anyways, next

Yo mama is so fat...

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fat people jog around her for exercise

Well..umm, back to the subject at hand - the GTR is a technoligcal showcase for Nissan - but, in MY eyes it's aesthetics won't carry it into the next decade, much less the 40+ the 911 design has. I like my P Cars and I think everyone who has posted to this post can say the same - okay, I'm done -- Ben, pop me a Chimay I'm thirsty

fat people deserve P's too, lol

hehe i only got hard liquor i think porsche has the challenge of making its 998 a departure from the 997 callback to the 993 while still pleasing all you ultra-right p-wingers here. i for one am not enthralled with the 997 design and would def be a potential future buyer of the 998 if done right. with the R8 getting mad love and the aggressive design of the GTR (on top of the legit competitive perf figures), porsche would be remiss to make the 997-998 transition as subtle as the 996-997 both performance wise and style wise. if anyone can do it, it's porsche. rah rah pom pom in hand right?

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Say, I wouldn't mind seeing SpeedDemon do exactly that...

he's got my info

That's a tough call, Ben. Porsche has already done it once, as the reminder of the 993-996 transition is still all too fresh. Don't rush to judgment too soon. Keep in mind the Z06 Vette hasn't done to the 911 what you're claiming the GT-R will do.

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I'm eagerly waiting for the 998. Very curious as to how it's going to turnout, but no Porsche has ever failed in this dept save for the Cayenne (except I do like the refreshed version) so I have faith. I'm a more open-minded, modern/contemporary guy (always prefer peak lapels to the notched) who likes the Bangled BMWs for the most part and like taking a bit of risk to make a clear departure from the past, but not too far off if you get my drift. Again, read my words. I wasn't rushing to any sort of conclusion on the 998. As for the Z06, that's another planet in the sports/gt car market. I know no friends of mine who currently run Asian/European sports/gt cars that want a Z06 or any Corvette for that matter (myself included). However, the GTR hits much closer to Porsche's target audience. P.S. My money tells it all - I like everything fundamental piece of the 996 more so than the 993 though to be quite clear, there are 993 cars I'd buy over a 996.

We seem to be taking the thread a new direction - so, I everyones opinion what's been the most significantly improved production model year for the 911 (ie. 964 to 993). I'm glad we're all happy again - Ben, I hope you got your Karate, pit bulls and your AK 47 ready for duty LOL. intranetz gangstahs FTW

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Excellent Post. Stop being a drama queen, the guy said he hates the styling, not the brand or the car itself, and you keep blowing it out of proportion to make a silly little arguement over people preffering a Porsche 911 over a Nissan GT-R and you havent even driven one yet to really even know what the cars about. If car magazine said the grass in England was better would you sell your house and move? At least get the car and let the car do something for a while before you go declaring everything else worthless.

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WHAHAHAHHAHAHA did i **** u off?

You're just another aggravating fanboy.

Here is something to chear everybody up...............back to basics guys! The true reason of Porsche lovers! http://youtube.com/watch?v=KRbzJ0L1Zn8

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read and weep

ben you got PM

*** Nissan is fine for some Porsche is all good for me Feel the love

I do feel it, thanks

"However, the GTR hits much closer to Porsche's target audience." Ben, you can't be serious. Like LeMans is to the Fast and the Furious. Not even close.

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We have to all keep in mind that Ben is currently sick and under some serious medications. This meds are allowing him function but not at full capacity, not even close. I'm confident that in time he will be well again, relative terms.

The fact that Nissan chose the 911TT as the development and testing benchmark for the new GT-R is a tremendous tell. It says it all about whom they regard as atop the sports/GT car hierarchy. Godzilla has no one else in its sights except the 911, and it has arguably succeeded in its objectives. The GT-R has made a big splash, but it remains to be seen whether it can win the hearts of other contingents. In the illustrious 40 years of the 911, surely this isn't the first time the throne has been so called "threatened." Surely there were (and still are) many cars posting better specs and numbers, and yet the 911 has continued to thrive. How can a car with relatively inferior performance numbers (and the engine in the wrong place, for goodness sake) still compete in the marketplace? Purely brand prestige? Countless fanboys with deep pockets? OK... There needn't be panic in Stuttgart over the GT-R's performance specs. The 911 designers and engineers have all seen and been through this before in the past 40 years. Has the 911 always had the best track lap times? Certainly not. So how in the world has it continued to win the hearts of automotive journalists and enthusiasts alike? It's gotta be magic, right? Ben, as for your comment that the GT-R hits much closer to the 911's target audience than the Vette? I'll chalk that up to your flu meds. That's akin to saying the STi is remotely close to the M5's target audience.

I think this one is a snap better then z06 " The newest supercar from Japan has finally received firm U.S. pricing. Nissan�s GT-R will go on sale in Japan early next month, and U.S. sales will kick off in June of 2008. Until then all we can do is drool and daydream. Oh, and pinch our pennies. Not that the GT-R is a bank-buster. In fact, for the performance, the only thing that�s getting busted is the Chevrolet Corvette Z06�s reputation as performance per dollar champion. Coming in at a cool $69,850 the base GT-R slides in nearly $2,000 under the base Z06. The Premium trim GT-R, which adds Bose audio, heated seats and side air bags and more, rings up at $71,900 - a far cry from a fully-loaded Z06 3LZ, which will run you $77,545. It�s not just the Corvette that�s getting spanked in the performance per dollar comparison - in fact the Z06 is the closest competitor. For comparison consider the Porsche 911, which starts at $72,400 for a stripped RWD-only version, and runs to over $120,000, or the Mercedes-Benz SL-class, which you won�t find under $90,000 new, and can climb to over $180,000. Those cars can barely keep up with (or not keep up at all in the SL�s case) the much less expensive GT-R. On the other hand, cars like Audi�s S5 come in significantly cheaper (the S5 starts around $50,000) and offer about two-thirds of the performance of the GT-R, with around 354hp compared to the GT-R�s 473hp, putting it in a similar league in terms of value, but still far behind the GT-R in absolute performance. Stats and figures on the GT-R are unchanged - which means you can get a car that�ll "

Those who are in the market for an SL are looking for something totally different than a Nissan GT-R can ever offer. Again it is apples to oranges as it with the comparison to the 911's. The GTR will appeal to its own crowd/type much as European cars and American muscle does. A simple BUT very flawed way to look at it is to compare it to everything in its price range and say it beats it, so it is the best. The GT-R bust your ***** power can not be denied and it is impressive to say the least. For pure money to power ratio it stands alone and will have its own following. But many car enthusiasts are not just looking at or desire those stats alone, impressive as they may be. I (as many) would gladly pay more for style, class, and heritage to mention a few.

post #128! I think Ben is onto something. The folks on here (and there are many) that can blow $100,000 + on a CAR are 100% correct in utterly ignorging the new GT-R. For the other 99% of the population (including me BTW) this new car is VERY relevant. I love the leather, fit and finish, looks, etc. of my Porsche way more than my old Corvette. That said, if it weren't for snow (my 996 is AWD) I would get pretty tired of getting smoked by new Vettes that cost as much as my used Porsche! If you have the money, only a fool (IMHO) would prefer the GTR to a 997 TT! Then again that is like comparing a GT Mustang to a Z06 Corvette. One is TWICE the cost of the other!! Of course if I have the money (that I want to spend on a car, mind you) I would prefer to buy a 997TT. But, when the time comes that I've saved enough for the "new" car, if I have only enough for either a N/A 997 or a GT-R which do you think I'll choose?? That is what (I think) Ben is getting at. 110% the performance of a 997TT at 50% of the price, that is awesome. And it is AWD for a 50 state Daily Driver to boot. BTW, I LOVE my Porsche, but I am not part of the religion... Gotta give credit where it is due. Even if it were a Hyudai you have to see the potential of this car...

Mr Jackel I also love my Porsche and !'m no part of the religion either. Put I am part of the passion, as many here are. The issue here is that this thread got off track and started comparing two cars that are not in the same league nor have the same following and passion (religion as some will call it). Ben is correct in the fact that Nissan has put out a beast. But this does not mean Ferrari, Porsche or any other high end European manufactorer has to go back to the drawing board. They are playing against eachother in a different league. But Toyota and Honda should take note.

gtr is nice.... but lacks the prestige of the porsche

i thought there'd be a lot better response here given there are so many "performance" enthusiasts. what's up with the elitist "its not a porsche" view... and some of these comments coming from ppl who probably paid $40K for a used 996? i'd give credit where it is due i have friends in the industry (one at costworth) who cannot stop talking about what a great car the gtr really is. the motor is spec'd to handle 1000 hp. nissan is also being very selective in terms of aftermarket performance. i believe top secret was one company that was selected do far. in any event, a great car... and while not the same as porsche, u cant say there is no heritage in the gtr... nissan has created a storied line of great sports cars in the skyline since 1955... most ppl just trace it back to the R32 Gt-r (1989ish)

and ill add, if i had a choice of cars, id take a 997 C2S over the gt-r.... i do still prefer the p-cars =)

I've always been a fan of the Skyline's performance, which has been compared to the 911 TT since the first day I was introduce to them back in the mid 90's. The problem for me has been the way it looks. Maybe seeing the '08 in person will change my mind but as of now I'd take the RS8 and it's "Starski and Hutch" stripe over the looks of the new Skyline. According to folks from my old Nissan club, mark ups on the GTR are going to start @$15k above MSRP just cover the dealer cost to sell and service them.

I can't help but note how the auto media keeps comparing it to a Porsche. However great it may be, and, after owning a small fleet of Z-cars, I have much respect for the engineering efforts of Nissan, the fact is that it can never actually Be a Porsche. One has soul, the other does not. It will be an outstanding car for sure, but will it be one that stirs our spirits? Maybe yours, but I'm not going to rename my slowly-growing GT3 fund the GTR fund. Simply put, in my opinion, There is No Substitute.

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Soul = fancier badge on front

If you have time to read: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122409

^^ Good article. Sounds like "more of the same" that we've been hearing, but I guess I'm not surprised.

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This was an interesting post following the article: "I'm very sorry, but as much as I love the article and it's great and all...it's a little bogus to me. I highly doubt the GTR would beat the Turbo...and yes, I know it did on the ring...that's not my point. My point is that, if any of you saw the video for part of this review, you would see that this idiot test driver, I don't care how good he is, CANNOT drive a porsche correctly. Is this saying I can? No. It's saying that seeing him over-steer when he's trying for a fast lap is idiotic. The Turbo has such immense traction, and if you don't know how to trail-brake, ESPECIALLY with a Porsche, which he obviously didn't, you end up with slow times. If he actually drove the Porsche well, then I'm pretty sure it would have a much better time, if not beat the GTR by a very small margin of <1 sec. Sorry for the rant guys, I just don't like comparisons based on lack of PORSCHE (not general) driving skills." I like the Nissan. The closest thing I ever owned was a G35. But when I got in my wife's 330i, it was clearly missing something. The G35 could leave the 330i for dead anytime. But it was less fun to drive. Now, comparing the 330i to the 996 is just laughable. How would the GT-R feel? I don't know. I know I don't care much for its looks, especially in white. Do I care if it beats the 997 on a track? Not so much. If I made my living driving stock cars on tracks, then I certainly would. Right now, I like the engine in the back. I like the sound of the six, more than I like the sound of a V-8 (talking R8). Trucks have V-8's. I like riding close to the road. It would be nice if my car shifted like most Nissans. But I don't want a Nissan. At least not right now.

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+1 on a good post, great reading, thanks A beast from the East it is, no arguments about that. BTW SpeedD, what do you mean by "or ????" any front runners (M3 or ????) Just curious is all.

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This article was something I found, but I still do not care for the GT-R...but the results speak for themself in this case, and at least it is outside of the world of Nissan this time around. ???? = no front runners. I am going to take a while before I pick my next car.

Ok Take your sweet time, I'm shure you'll be rewarded with a nice something something.

the more i look at the gt-r the more im not really feeling it....

More fuel to the fire: Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWAficaFl3c Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IMWhKciBDs&NR=1 Looks: Big and ugly... but has appeal in some areas. Pedigree: Not the same history as the P-car, but Skylines & Z's go way back with some impressive vehicles. Feel: Based on size, weight, and all the gadgets, you lose out compared to the P-car. Performance: Incredible. Price: For the performance, incredible.

It's the "real deal" if you're a FNF fan but I don't think it will win over many p-car buyers. They may have used the TT as a benchmark during development I doubt Nissan plans on taking much of the p-car market share. It's like the Vette vs Porsche comparison...no matter who wins the performance contests, either you want a Porsche or you don't. I really think a very small percentage of buyers cross shop so those whose primary motivator is bang for the buck may end up with one of these.

Gents, CHECK THIS OUT http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/92...hanks-ben.html

Way bigger and taller. So i really doubt its capabilities on turns.. as you could see in that youtube clip in the first posts... "not as agile as the porsche" ...adn looks like a dodge charger to me. Nice electronic gizmos though

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Not as agile as the Porsche? See SpeedDemon's CAR magazine article...the 997 had a peak lap speed of 114 mph, versus less than 110 mph for the GT-R. I'm not sure how they could pull that off with a "less agile" car. They also claimed to be holding back a little with the GT-R so as to not wreck the poor owner's new car.

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Huhhh??? Isn't 114MPH faster than 110MPH??

Let's face it, no matter what its areas of excellence or how much mega HP they load it up with, a 3,800 pound 4wd car will never be as agile as a 3,200 pound rwd car.

The front end reminds me of the Chinese Pug dog breed. One of the ugliest dogs around. Fast or not I'd never buy one.

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Yes, but the 997TT's overall lap time was longer. If the 997TT runs a slower lap time with a faster peak speed, it implies to me that the GT-R is more agile through the corners, because it sure isn't in a straight line.

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Sad but true. Through the corners it beat the TT (with that driver anyways). The GT-R is a performance monster.

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money no object i'd pick the 997TT everytime, but you guys haven't the perception nor reading comprehension nor open-mindednes to get this out of my posts. but money is an object else none of us would be b!tching and whining about CPO, warranty, RMS, can i lower on just springs, or even driving our bastard (yet loveable) child of a 911 that is the 996. this GTR is a highly relevant car because 1 it's got supercar worldclass performance 2 it's the new hot car (though the GTR name itself does have a rich history overseas) 3 the 997 911GT3/TT/GT2 is the measuring stick in this class. so for much less money, you get to instill fear in the 997 $150K car guy to which then 997 $150K will reach into his bag of excuses powered by insecurity and cut down on the car by using racial slurs, it's huge in pictures, it's fuqin heavy, its interior sux, bringing up valet pimpin' concerns, say that stupid saying there's no substitute etc etc etc my point has been and will continue to be in this thread that this car is to be respected. respecting this car doesn't mean you gotta wanna go out and buy it. it doesn't necessarily mean it makes you desire your car less (in some cases yes). it doesn't mean anything other than you being an intelligent, cultured, open-minded, progressive car fan... can recognize a good thing when you see it. i am the above paragraph here. i respect the GTR and welcome it to the market. it only keeps the game up for all others, including porsche, to then go and out-do. so for all you suckers getting your porsche crested thongs in a wad because of my posts, you gotta really think hard about getting a life.

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wanna911, i wasn't going to bother coming back to check Choi's posts but had to for a good ol'giggle......you just made it worth while with your replies to his childish comments. Choi, time to turn over the vinyl, you've already worn out one side.

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lol.... Ben Seriously, I believe most posts have recognize and praise the GT-R on the good things in it, performance category - outstanding. I've read plenty of positive remarks, it is possible you might be a bit to focused on some of the negative lines. In this you're not alone as it is happening to your remarks as well. The thing most don't care so much about it is looks/style, me included. Pointless to argue on this. Not everybody has his thongs in a wad over this, I am....el natural Tattooing the P-crest on my d..K head is on my mod list, page 5. As far as getting a life... pot calling the kettle black (2300+ posts an counting, nice!) We are all part of this sick adiction, thanks for the company On a side note, I do hope you got over that cold/flue bug

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so you equate post count to whether a dude has a life or not? WHAHAAHHAAHHAHAHA wanna compare what we did over the weekend, bud?

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check my garage and see what car i choose to drive. you are so sensitive you can't get past your own damn bias like you're in a perpetual state of... wanting a 911... hmmmmm

People, You just have to do what I did. I made his ignore list.

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Yes. I know every time my wife sees me reading or posting she tells me to get a life, ha. Not sure if my marriage can take 2000 + posts I had a good weekend, drank a little, check that, allot of wine. One of the best syrah's to be had is form the Coeur D Alene winery . I also got my windows tinted (30%) washed and drove the bratwurst out of my 996, had a little fun with the wife (after the vino) and watched my son work his tricks in his beloved BMX bike. Thanks for asking

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+1! BC, you seem to be intolerant of any criticisms levied against the GT-R, even given the fact there's virtually unanimous recognition of its performance specs and value in this thread. Some negative comments on its aesthetics, and you accuse all critics to be Porsche zealots with deep-rooted insecurity? If someone thinks the GT-R is ugly, then they think it's ugly. If someone feels 4,000 lbs is too much bulk to be a sports car, then that's their opinion. Your entire tirade is based on your reaction to subjective opinions of others. You do realize a car can be a performance beast and outstanding value, but still be unappealing to others for good reasons, even if you don't share their views? You seem to be blind to it somehow, but the GT-R is being respected for what it is. The only disrespect here is the others' subjective opinions of it by you. I'm also not too fond of the GT-R's "Caddy" styling motif, with sharp creases/edges, although I don't think it's fugly. If that's enough for someone to not like it, then that's their opinion and prerogative. If you want to equate that with baseless disparagement and entrenched insecurity, then that's your prerogative, no matter how infantile it may be. Subjective criticisms have no bearing on objective measurements. Nobody is discounting the GT-R capabilities. Tell me again your feelings about a higher-priced, slower F-car vs. a P-car.

heck yea i'm intolerant of "crap jap car" aren't u? virtually unanimous recognition? hey get out from under your RMS engine car and check the thread again.

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I see only one poster who used that insensitive term on the GT-R, so that makes the whole bushel rotten? Go ahead, count the number of posts that didn't acknowledge the GT-R's performance specs, then compare it against the number of your posts claiming they didn't. Who's doing the witch-hunt?

sorry don't have the time nor interest - u do it , put it in an excel spreadsheet and share out

Wanna compare what you did this weekend?? Has it come to this? My dad can beat up your dad? Ben, it seems like your tweeked because one person used an unfortunate slur. The rest is just all opinion - and I think you can grant us that we all have the right to one. Yes, the GT-R has nice performance numbers. I don't think anyone here has driven one - so 90% of the reason I buy a particular model is unknown to me. I know this - I (ME, ONLY ME) don't like the styling, the look, of it. And that, basically, is all I know about it besides the fanboy stats. I look forward to the road test on Top Gear. These are cars, not blood.

I think we all need to just chill. Let's juts leave it at the last positive note whichever page that was? At the end of the day I don't like the style but as I DID state a few pages ago the performance is great. Said my peace and moving on....

and i agree. the tide has turned in this thread and because of my input, it's a much more fair assessment now. if you read the earlier posts... it's diff than what's on page 4-5. i'm the one who called out the religion or "blood" part. i'm the one who has consistently stated so u don't like the looks, but the perf of this car is to be respected and recognized. i'm the one who said my money is in the 911. i'm the one who's said i'd never buy the GTR, but can still respect/recognize it for its merits. i never said hate your 911, this car renders your car into a pile of ****. but i've built up a rep in this forum that i'm the one who trashed his porsche pom poms unlike many of the others here who shake them up and twirl them around 24/7. and for that i get the preconceived notions, the bias against, etc. and as a result people pass over the very pro-porsche sentiments that i hold onto dearly. it's all good. that's what keeps it fun for me. and when someone says get a life, sure i'm going to tell him to step up and share some notes. i had a great weekend and a life regardless of my post count. that's a silly thing to say so i reply with a statement commensurate to what was thrown out to me. get it? good.

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Ok, you're the one happy now? You threw out "get a life" and yes I'M THE ONE that made light of it. For being so blunt, which does not bother me, you seem pretty deffensive. Chill BC, I am sure you have a good life and maybe even a nice weekend

defense wins championships and guys seriously tone down your imagination level a bit - you guys read way too much out of the characters you see written on screen. enjoy spokane, bud. LOL

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These were my favorites from just the last two pages. LOL, Ben, you certainly have an entertaining way of looking at things.

shots of chilled grey goose all around cheers

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Well written Ucube, probably the best explanation I've read and totally agree with.

Grasshopper, you've found the light...thanks to my post....LOL No doubt the GTR is a Fantastic car... especially for the price...its official $81,900cad. Looks will always be subjective...imagine if it looked like a Porsche, the response in the post will be quite different. ooopps...did I open another can of worms??

I just saw a GT-R on the street this morning....it is a very big car, physically. Later in the day, I got behind a white R8...now that was a nice looking back end...I thought I was pretty fortunate to catch both out driving in the same day. I felt like I was looking at the GT-R bumper when behind (seemed very tall), but the R8 gave me the impression that it was of similar size, at least height wise.

another car i'm excited to see on the roads... the R8. was just in LA... i saw a dirty 997ish car with LED rear lights... only in LA man only in LA. likely a porsche test car or something. very cool. GTR baby yea! looking forward to seeing one on the roads up here. i really liked gundam when i was a kid. maybe that's why i like the looks so much more than you folks who have no fuqin clue what a gundam is.

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I surely do. I had quite a few model kits of Gundam growing up. Good times.

haha yes and the GTR was inspired by it and i can totally see it... it's so japanese and has its own distinct look ... which i respect. i'm not necessarily enamored with it just as i am not enamored by the e92 M3... but i do know lowered on bigger wheels... both cars look markedly better and i know i will mutter to myself damn that looks siq when i see one modded up like so (likely in LA)

The gtr would have looked better with a slightly modified 300z body style. I think then they would really sell my .02

I ran next to an R8 yesterday and was surprised by how much sharper it is in person. I panned it regularly after seeing spy shots and in car ****. Live, it was a much smoother, flowing and subtly aggressive. Loved it. Hell, maybe if I see a GT-R in person I'll change my mind as well. (But I doubt it)

the GTR to me is a young man's sports car. the 911 is for the older dudes and for younger dudes since it's been around a lot longer. the corvette is for older dudes.

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I agree the R8 is pure sex on wheels. Simply stunning. The GTR, not so much. Capable yes, but also fat and fugly.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/29/n...th-perfection/ This is actually in the manual. So there goes messing with the car...leave it as is according to Nissan

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The same note is in my 996 manual...something like "Do not modify your 911 in any way. You could seriously affect the <blah blah blah>..."

wow i can't believe i missed this. my 2 cents (OK I just finished typing, it's at least 3 cents) never having driven it, i like the new-new GTR in theory, just like i liked the NSX. I personally like to think of sports cars independently of their cost when evaluating them in a vacuum, e.g. magazine racing, but when the chips are down obviously you have to ask yourself what you spend the money on. The reason I mention the NSX is that it was so trick, so Honda F1, I mean Ayrton Senna in the tester's seat, every F1 driver at the time buying one and saying it was the fastest car for 99% of road driving situations, the most livable sports car ever, I mean the momentum Honda had at the time, the car was legendary before it was even launched. My friend's sister was married to a cardiologist at that time who wanted to buy a new car, and us kids were all over the NSX. Before NOPI and tricked out hondas, we were all about the NSX, what kid wouldn't be? Ferrari looks & handling and RACE CAR drivers said it was the ONE. Motor Trend, Road & Track choosing it in comparison over comparison over the old guard. The doctor went in to the Acura dealer, took out his checkbook, fade to black. He came back to the building in a brand new black 964 convertible. We all asked why on earth did you get that ugly old-man porsche? (because we all wanted to see that new Japanese ferrari and the hot porsche on the posters back then were the slant nose 930 turbos). He replied, "I thought about it, and for that kind of money I figured I should buy a nice car." The need for speed met the need for prestige. The modern Porsche buyer is born. (no I know not all porsche buyers are this way, but many are, and at least where I roam, I feel the plurality are) Why was the NSX never the runaway sales success in America that everyone thought it would be, knew it should be? In aiming at Ferrari, it unwittingly made a price-competitor of the 911, and anyone who has taken 90K out of their wallet (I mean the old fashioned cash, not modern financing) knows the need to feel you're getting your money's worth. The 911, without actually trying, was one of the primary reasons for the languishing of the NSX, solely because the NSX was sold in the 911's price slot. All things old become new, and no one remembers the lessons of the past. Like the NSX, the GTR is in no way a natural competitor of a like-priced modern 911. But by being priced similarly, the grand majority of people will compare these vehicles, short of the most hardcore GT-R aficionado, the most avid import racer, and of course the most ardent Porsche fan. For true zealots, who do not make up as much of the buying population as they used to in these days of mass production, there simply is no substitute either way. Everyone else shops for these cars based on price, which is why you will hear people say they are considering a new 911, CLK63, M5 and other wholly disparate vehicles. they cost the same, so they get compared. But when the chips are down, unless you really do live for the track, most people want their 80 or 90K to deliver prestige as well as performance. Most people who just want performance, I mean all performance with no widely acknowledged badge snobbery, tend to shop down in EVO-territory. Us kids would've sold our left nuts for an NSX in 1990 or 91, because that's all we had. But if you worked hard for the money, you probably buy the Porsche, the Ferrari, the Benz, the "nice car". If you had a lot of money you didn't know what to do with, you would buy both and never drive either because you were too busy para sailing with movie stars or fending off supplicants. Depending on certain age and socioeconomic and ethnic demographics, as well as weather, in certain areas of the country a Corvette may be King, a 911, an S8, an Enzo etc, and so it holds that certain people in certain places will hold the GT-R up as what it is, the long awaited US legal version of the greatest road car legacy Japan has to offer, an absolute monster of a car that gets around tracks with the best of them, and still drives home. But so long as it's in the same price range as a 911, it will never be the American sales success (measured by % market share in segment/class not dollar volume or units) that its little brother the regular skyline has been here (infiniti g35/g37 coupes). Even if it smashes every production car performance mark known to man, the GT-R simply won't set any sales records. And while I'm making unsolicited predictions, I will venture that they won't import too many, that demand will be met, and that they will not depreciate badly. They will be driven like they were stolen and stolen faster than they're driven. But most people considering a 911 won't buy one, some people considering a Cayman S may, and most people who look into buying a GT-R after reading a magazine will wind up in a black 911 cab or a new V8 M3 depending on their bias toward cash or credit. The GT-R is no doubt everything its fans expected it to be, its legacy is definitely going to remain intact, and due to its shorter model cycle will remain an incredible halo car for Nissan to keep crash testing and freighting into America. But a 911 it isn't, not here at least.

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i knew my boy would step up p.s. went to ktown le cercle on Friday nite (crazy) and then had dinner with my date at katana and met up with more friends across the street at the mondrian skybar (saturday nite and the place of my stay for the weekend) - good times, thx for the katana recommendation.

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Hey, I'm glad you had fun! I actually had to travel a little what with the underpinnings of the markets unravelling so haven't been on here, didn't realize you had come and gone! You got some good weather by all accounts. It was still nice when I got back on Sunday but I heard Friday/Saturday were quality LA weather. So... Did you like the food at Katana? Did your date slap you on account of your wandering eye? (I wear protective headgear) Did you wind up in the pool at Sky?

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actually, friday and saturday were both cloudy and somewhat chilly (but no rain whew). sunday was perfect. smog? whatever. i love the LA air. the food was good, but honestly i didn't get to focus on it too much since i had to entertain a guest. she turned out to be a quality gal. definitely lots of eye candy, but somehow i managed. le cercle was great fun. skybar was packed and i'd def stay at the mondrian again. i wish i had a chance to enjoy the pool on sunday (more eye candy just dressed in less), but i got up at noon and had to check out rather briskly. to keep this somewhat car related, spotted a very nicely lowered 20" deep dish wheels V10 M5 on sunset - looked fantastic. saw your bevy of bentleys and porsches including what i believe to be a 997/8 test mule as it had the LED rear lights that i've seen in spy shots on this site. just eye candy all around town both mechanical and biological. i'm going to PM you if you don't mind.

Back to the real reason for this thread, although it still should be in Off-Topic: GT-R vs. GT3 http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetev...rsche_gt3.html

evo and car are my fav auto rags - very nice showing

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I don't know. The GTR may almost have more in common with the Veyron than the GT3

The GTR will be a great used car to buy when the fuss is over and you don't have to pay $20,000 over MSRP to get one. I'd rather a 996TT personally though and I'm a Japanese car guy (bought my NSX before my 964).

there's no way i'd take a 996TT over a GTR. 997TT diff story. now a 996GT3... tougher, but i'd still take the gtr. 997 GT3... no doubt. 997TT yea, but not as no doubt as the GT-Treezy

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I guess it's the same reason I bought my NSX instead of a C5 Z06, the Z06 would have been a lot faster, but it's not what I wanted. One thing I was wondering about is who do you get to work on your GTR, the GTR is a very complex car, it's like a computer with wheels, I just can't imagine most Nissan dealerships having mechanics that are ready for this car.

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Only the dealerships that sell the GTR will be trained and have the equipement to service it.

I was at Irvine Cars & Coffee on Saturday and saw a black right hand drive GTR with a temporary Florida plate on the back. My guess is it's a demonstrator. Anyway, it had a huge crowd around it. I took a good look at it and noted that it is a huge car. The car's looks were not for me, that's for sure; big, blocky and with too many inclusive angles for my taste. Everything I've read and seen, however, says that this car is superb and almost unmatched in every performance arena. There might be a handful of cars that can beat it in one or two areas, but in an overall sense I'd say that this car might be the most accomplished car ever made. Btw, Nissan has a proven competition record. Look at the GTP and IMSA cars of the '80's and 90's. Would I buy one? Probably not. It just doesn't look good to me. YMMV, of course.

Well, consider this: Given the apparent limitations on tampering with a GTR ECU, turbos/wastegates/blowoffs, etc, or even the wheels (apparently you cannot run aftermarket rubber on them, at a recent show the rim manufacturers actually had to roll the cars in on the stock wheels, jack em up an swap on stage) I think a 996tt with even factory x50 or a little aftermarket juice will make enough power to keep you real close to a GTR, depending on your mindset maybe much better, and the GTR cannot be made to make more power by all current accounts from Japan I've read. (or to look quite as nice IMHO) Given how soft the 996tt market is, I bet you could pick a decent one up in the low 50s, mod the motor to 600+bhp, fit DOT slicks, coilovers, brakes, and still have enough left over for a kawasaki zx-14 and a trip to the track to vmax both for less than a GTR wil cost you this year. Or skip the kawa and all that frivolous handling/braking nonsense and convince someone to lease you the GTR for the year for the difference, side by side comparison. If anyone wants to test the theory, why not start on an old car? Hennessey in ATL has a CPO 996tt, high miles but hey you're going to wind up rebuilding the motor soon anyway right? "2001 Porsche 911 Turbo Coup�, $ 44,982" (price listed on the porsche usa preowned search, figure you walk for 40)

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I'm actually surprised I'm seeing as many R8s as I have been this past couple of months, and excited for the future. I can't say I like the blades much, or the christmas lights on the front lamps, however it's definitely a nice looking car and sounds better than I thought it would. But it will be a bargain in the used/certified market, will depreciate like a stone once a hi-po RS version comes out. This is why I love Audi, catastrophic depreciation to my benefit! (and beautiful design inside and out of course)

How about instead of the Kawasaki and modifying the 996 TT, you buy a 996 TT and an Ariel Atom, the Ariel Atom will be faster than the GTR and you can daily drive the 996 TT.

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1. $45K for a 996TT is not typical, but you can find a lot of early turbos now in the $50's. Have you looked at the cost of rebuilding a 996tt motor? How about $20K+. You are always better off paying more and getting one with a good motor. 2. Although a used 996TT is cheaper used than a new GT-R is new, that 996TT was over $110 new. The base price of the new 997TT is $126K. The is no queston a GT-R is a bargain. If all you are looking at is performance numbers, why do you own a Porsche and not a Corvette? A Z06 is the same money as a GT-R. You could buy a base LS3 Corvette and put an APS twin-turbo kit (700+ hp) on it with a total spend of over $10K less than a GT-R or a Z06. 3. Mines already has an ECU upgrade for the GT-R in Japan. Mines has also already announced they will sell GT-R parts in the US. They will have both an ECU upgrade and an exhaust available before the end of the year. 4. You do not have to fill the tires with Nitrogen if you are using aftermarket wheels and tires. This is done from the factory for some minor handling improvements. Nissan dealers will be installing Nitrogen filling stations for tire changes. There are several tuners in Japan already using aftermarket wheels and tires with traditional compressed air and no ill effects. 4. The issue for any comparison is not power. A 997TT has the same power, 75 ft-lbs more torque, a much broader powerband and 300 lbs less weight than a GT-R, yet still seems to lag behind the GT-R on a road course. The GT-R is in fact slower in a straight line than a 997 Turbo and it lacks the variable geometry turbos the 997tt has, so the difference has to be in handling.

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http://www.arielatom.com/UsedCars.aspx I wish! Unless you know something I don't(which believe me is way more than likely!), I don't think you can find an atom in the usa for less than 50, and really well sorted examples are pushing 80-100 (i have been watching prices, been considering keeping one out west). now that tmi are going to be building in the us, we might see costs come down marginally but usd to gbp FX won't help that anytime soon.

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Oh don't get me wrong, GT-R is a bargain and is magic-quick in the magazines, probably much easier to drive fast ala EVO vs. cayman etc. My post was a bit more tongue in cheek, but all of your points are of course valid, and the corvette of course can make BIG power on the cheap. I wasn't aware that anyone had defeated the GT-R nanny systems, that's awesome

Here's to knocking on 15 pages...will we see 20?

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Nitrogen filled tires, does not improve handling.

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It will be interesting when the first independent dyno's start being reported. I'm guessing (looking at the acceleration numbers) that the GTR is under rated by the factory.

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Totally agree with the passion part, I love my Carrera. However, these cars are in the same league as far as performance. The fit and finish are miles apart, just like with the Corvette. Gotta say if money was no object I'd take a TT everytime. But we're talking 997TT performance with a great car for less than a N/A 911! Great to see what Porsche will do now though! I hate to say it, but I will probably buy a GT-R as my next car. Part of the allure (sic?)of the Porsche is it's handling and power with comfort. The AWD and 997TT power with a loaded Caymen price tag is hard to beat. Love my car, but... Anyway, until that day (a long way off for me) I'm loving the car I have and may just keep it for good. The folks on this site are great too. Adios,

It's easy to get caught up in the raw numbers and the car may well have been designed to put them up on the board. However, few of us can own the cars at the top of this list. I'm guessing most of us don't want that car anyway. To me it's the whole package including aesthetics, history, sound, cost, soul, maintainability, depreciation, performance, handling and perhaps even status. Each of us puts more weighting on some of these factors than others. If I was in the market for something new I wouldn't even look at a Nissan. I'm guessing many will but probably the younger folk.

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180371 Narrower: Can't even see the NSX other than the roof through the GTR's window: Rear bumpers -even positioning: GTR is slightly longer, and tire is as high as the NSX's hood:

That NSX looks so much better, it's not even funny. It just needs a LoveFab setup. Edit: Here's the actual thread the pictures are from, with the NSX owner comparing the two cars in post #23. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101802

Wow, that GTR is HUGE... I hate to say it, but I think the older NSX wins (by a wide margin) in the looks department.

Man, that GT-R looks massive compared to the NSX!

NSX supercharged for the win!!

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+1

Not surprising that the GTR weighs 3,800 pounds - it's GINORMOUS compared to the NSX, or most true sports cars. Kinda a poor man's Bugatti approach to performance - just load up a pig with lots of power.

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[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

After seeing the GTR and NSX side by side I have to reevaluate my earlier opinion. I've never seen a car that looks like a muscle car, but handles and accelerates like a world class sports car.... Its freaky, really it is. That isn't natural...

Traction and chassis tuning...

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All speculation. Their has been GTRs driving around with aftermarket wheels and tires. They also claim that nothing smaller than an 20" wheel will fit on the GTR... But 18's DO fit over those huge 6-piston monoblock calipers on the GTR. The GTR is a cool car and fun to drive. It has nearly R-compound tires from the factory, so given equal tires and equal power (GTR is ~ 480 WHEEL hp -not crank), I think you will have a much different outcome in many of the recent comparisons. 0.02

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With AWD don't you usually estimate 25% drivetrain loss? That would put the car at well over 600hp at the crank.

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You can't generalize drivetrain loss, their are far too many variables between different makes and models, heck, even the same model cars will have varying drivetrain loss and power levels. Different tire models (weight, diameter, etc...) different wheels (weight, diameter), engine oils, tranny oils, etc... are all variables for drivetrain loss. GTRs have dynoed at 450-480whp. Regardless, its far above the listed "480 crank".

it's straight up Godzilla and isn't shy about it - respect

The GTR is def growing on me... defy the laws of physics.

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put the pipe down already - we all know you've got a stiffy for the GTR

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it's ugly

No question it is fast, but it is also big, heavy and ugly IMHO.

I got a test; take my 24 yr old FI technology 911 with a single turbo, and run it against the GTR. I have PSS9's, strut tower brace, and bigger sways. 447whp. With the same tires, etc., I bet my car could take it............muhahaha That my friend is respect.

Cory, historically I've done very well in testing, but, your "test" - I don't understand (EDIT) *I think we are going to see 20!!!*

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Now I am

20 as in 20 pages in a post dedicated to a fat Infiniti G37, albeit a technology-filled, (fast) fat G37

such weak sauce man oh it's ugly oh it's an pumped up infiniti your 911 is slower, dated, and shares the same history with the VW beetle. weak right?

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Woah there Tonto... YOU'RE the one saying weak! I think it's ugly (so do many others) some like it - yeah! Don't like what others think whahahahwhahahahah..you're gonna be okay bud. It's rather evident (for whatever reason) you've decided trump everyones opinion about this cars looks, technology, etc....if it helps you sleep LOL I did everything but drive the car last year at Goodwood and judging by prior posts, we seem to agree on other cars' beauty - so, no need to throw stones and refer to my disliking this particular car as being weak

wtf, i said i like the looks but never said everyone should admire it like it's the damn mona lisa. i said respect it, but don't harp on it with insecure comments like it's an infiniti, datsun, it's ugly... straight outta grade school and you all grown **** dudes (i think). it's a monster performer. respect. i happen to like its looks, too.

Ben, you and the GTR should get a room.

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we're in the room right now aren't we? get the fuq out

Poor Ben.... I seem to agree with him but with a more diplomatic approach. Looks are always a subjective issue, especially on a Porsche enthuiast forum...no kidding you like Porsche. Looks, brand name aside, for the value the GTR is to be reckon with and you can't deny the facts. The 997 GT3 is currently the best street Porsche ever produced and it got beat by a $80k stock car from factory. Come on....show some respect. (See vid on my other recent Nissan GTR part 2 post) I was blown away myself and I love my P car.

same here, i love my 911, but am very impressed by what nissan has done. now imagine if the nissan puffed out white smoke after a spirited run in the your backroad like the M96. image the load of crap it'd get from this very crowd. totally hypocritical.

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Ben, you're spot on with this one. I can't believe the childishness (is that a word?!? ) of people's reactions to a freakin' sports car...it's like they're OFFENDED or something because Nissan didn't design it to their nostalgic specifications. If you don't like it, don't buy one, but let's not pretend that it's not one of the best bang-for-the-buck sports cars available or that Nissan will have ANY trouble moving every one they build. If you don't like the looks of the GT-R, it's probably not for you, but I'll bet the 20-something crowd that grew up with Playstation and has enough expendable income to upgrade from their modified Evos and STis will be MORE than interested in this "lowly" Nissan. "But, but...it's got no SOUL [?!?] and it's HUGE and <whine whine>..." Nobody cares--the GT-R has essentially proven itself already and it's barely for sale yet.

If it looked moderately better and they raised price $10k I'd buy one. For now, no thanks..mechanical wonder notwithstanding. "Respect" - something I could never give unless it had a heart or created by nature!

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Desperate to spend some money, eh?

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LOL! Pay much attention to the market lately? Actually "bang for the buck" keeps getting touted - that's all good, but I'd actually pay a bit more if it looked better (if they kept the same price and it looked better, I'd take one tomorrow)(and keep the C4s)

Man, I've been following this thread and now i do not know what i want to do. I was going to get a 05 turbo S but now i am thinking of ordering a GTR for August delivery (been working with a dealer already) before the GTR had the recent press, I was having a dilemma between: 04 Turbo X50 05 Turbo S 06 or 07 C2S or C4S with aerokit and Sport chrono 03 GT2 I want the GT3 but it costs more than 997 TT I want the 997TT but it costs more than what I want to spend now. now a $80k option aka GTR is in the way. What should I do?? here comes another 20 pages i think LOL

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Wait until you see one raced for 12 or 24 hours (don't hold your breath), or even tracked for a weekend, and then decide.

i cannot wait that long, tomorrow i need to put a deposit for the GTR if i was to get the car for august and i was able to find one about 100miles from here for 8k over msrp. my local dealers are asking 15k 18k 25k 35k or 50k over msrp. At 8k over msrp it seems ok to try it and see what all the fuss is about.

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WHERE ARE YOU? Anyone in Dallas can get one from a dealer here for $5k over MSRP and have it here by mid June. Lots of variables go into a decision where that many cars vie for your cash..don't be in a rush. What's the rush doing the deal tomorrow and how "lucky" of you to just "stumble upon" this thread the day before you make this decision...hmmmm

I completely agree. Sort of.

i am in the san francisco bay area. as a matter of fact, my friend who lives in dallas called a couple of dealers and told me they want 10k and 12k over msrp.

bay area delays like to jack people. back in 2001 they want 50k to 75k over msrp for a 996 turbo 25kk over msrp for m5

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okay, I'll be your friend and let's make it 8k over MSRP

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I think you should buy both. If I had ANYWHERE to drive cars with this much power I'd do a GTR new and a gt2 or turbo s in a heartbeat. finance them to limit cash outlay, decide which you'll keep after a few months, you're unlikely to lose too much money aside from taxes (I hate taxes) as we're going in to summer anyway. more than numbers, you'll have to live with the car, and intuition tells me that the porsche (any of those mentioned) will be more satisfying to live with, but hey only experience will prove that wrong.

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I know the first 997 turbo i saw in LA the guy driving told me he paid 50K over, the first i saw in NY he said he paid sticker sticker sticker

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I own a few german cars and I have to agree that we make a lot of allowances for them, since we're making the same argument (better bang for the buck, better reliability) against the italians all the time.

I've been a porsche guy for a long time, had a 2000 c2 aerokit, 2003 turbo X50 with ceramic. I've been drooling for a turbo S since they are down to low $90s but then now the 997 tts are down to the low $110s which makes it a better deal than the turbo S. I am trying to not pay over 100k for the car which eliminates the 997 turbo for now. I plan on leasing the car so I only half to pay half the tax.

All the cars on your list (except gt3 & 997tt) are available for less than $100k!! If you're trying not to pay over $100k and are seriously in the market for a 9977tt - I'd think you could work a deal..that is, IF you're serious . How do you summize you're only paying half the taxes on any auto just because it's a lease? Seems you've had a car or two, I'd think you'd know different.

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It's probably registered to a business.

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Okay, but, how does that behoove the state allowing the buyer to pay half taxes? I understand benefits of a corporate lease (for the business), but, no matter who buys the car, they're going to pay the full tax on the car albeit deffered over the term of the lease. In Texas most leases require the tax/title/license paid up front

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varies by state. some states (including most states with no state income tax) require tax to be paid on full price, some only require tax be paid on portion leased (price-residual).

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That's interesting, do those same states charge an annual lease tax based on residual value of the car?

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when you lease you only pay tax on the portion of your lease. so if the car is 100k and residual is 50k then you pay tax on the 50k that you use over the 3 yrs etc. if you buy a car vs lease you pay sales tax on the whole car and if you trade it in, you pay sales tax on the new car agan vs walking awayt from the lease and pay half the tax. if at the end of the lease, your residual is less than what the car is worth, then it makes sense to buy it and keep it at which time you would pay tax on the residual amount.

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i would go that route but, i probably will not keep the car for more than 3 yrs so it may be a bit overkill to buy two and get rid of one of them at a significant loss. If I was able to get a 997tt, it would probably be good for 60 months.

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Not sure what you mean by if i am serious about a 997tt. There are no 997TTs for under 100k, several at about 110k to 115k

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If you're serious and are a semi-proficient negotiator, I'd believe you can get close to your 100k number, provided you're not in a hurry - which you've already expressed you are. So, did you put down your deposit on the GTR or what?

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filled out the credit app, they said they will fax or email me the order guide. no deposit is made yet. I've been looking for a 996 for a couple of months, came close a couple of times but did not close. 997 tt is not possible below 100k. i've been keeping an eye on them on ebay, autotrader, porsche preowned db and google.

why are we debating whether one can buy a 997tt for 100K and d!ck measuring negotiation skills? negotiate a damn peace treaty between north korea and the world - that's skills, otherwise move along. eat a GTR suckas!

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Interesting info from the GT3 thread on this car.... If true the question isn't so much "why is the GTR faster than a 997TT or a 997GT3". My question is if the GTR chassis is so advanced, why can it barely beat these cars with an extra 75 - 140 hp? If true this car has over 25hp on a GT2. Little wonder it's fast.

GTR Dyno http://www.nissan.co.jp/GT-R/R35/071...000002y0ac.swf This dyno shows just south of 600 hp

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looks like about 575. But this is in the car?? did you see the exhaust manifold glow?

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i am back. I had a GTR triple black on order with deposit put down for $6k over then....... saw a 997 GT3 and another 997 TT on the road and realized that I am still a porsche guy. Flew to LA and drove back this past sunday in my new ride! http://www.flickr.com/photos/6135272...28223676/show/ this will be my 3rd 911 and 2nd turbo. What the hell was I thinking all this time??? the GTR is still a badass car tech and performance wise but nothing beats the fine leather interior of my 997 TT. I will have no regrets

^^You should. You could have flipped that GTR and sprung for the full leather package on the TT with the profit.

i would have flipped it, but adding tax and license since the dealer specifically said i need to buy the car, not someone else. it would have added another 8k to the price for a total of 14k over. it starts to become harder to sell.

do the new Nissans rust as easily as the old Datsuns used to?

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Another thing I heard is that if you sell the car within the first year the warranty becomes void.

for the last time, it's the real ***** fuqin deal -game over, thank you, goodnite

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nah, i dont think that is possible

Nissan GT-R V-spec gives a suprise at N�rburgring! A laptime of 7:25!!!!

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Yes, metallurgy has advanced over the past 25 years for every major automobile manufacturer except Nissan.

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Yeah something like the base GT-R's 7:15 timed by bystanders.

It is still just ugly. It looks like a monster, not so elegant. If that is your thing then Porsche is not your marque anyway.

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Where you got that from? The 7.25 is the record on N�rburgring with GT-R and its also tuned to approx 550hp.

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Speak for yourself. This Porsche owner would desperately like to try a GT-R.

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NO it's not the record, the LFA reportedly ran 7:24, and the neither of the times are official. I'm sorry but "bystanders" at the ring isnt exactly credible in this world.

I just saw a GT-R in San Diego: possibly a press car? There were 2 350Z's following close behind. Watch for that article in MT or RandT!!

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+1. Would love to drive one.

I don't doubt the car is fast, but I think we should really study the fact that the initial press released cars are not what they really are. I remember back when the turbo Supra came out and they were as fast as most super cars in the quarter mile. What happened over time it seems that true showroom cars were actually slower by 1/2 a second in other road test. My point is that the Skyline is very fast, but the intial test results may be due to a tuned car with proper set up. The fact remains that the car is as fast as any performance car at a lower cost. The negative of the car is the looks and driving experience. LA Times author Dan Neil wrote that the car is extremely fast with no soul and a lack of fun. I personally feel its a great engineering accomplishment, but it not something I desire to own. A few fast laps I would take up that offer.

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For the last time, cars do not have souls. Also, "proving" that the early cars are ringers because there are rumors that Toyota did that 1.5 decades ago means...nothing.

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It's just an expression. It means character, idiosyncrasy, maybe a bit of history, stuff like that. Some cars have it. Most don't. Some of us are willing to pay for it, even. If you aren't, and if you're really just about *****-out speed, you probably have the wrong car. I think the GTR is a legitimate supercar. But, to my taste, it looks like the box it came in and I bet it would be as much of a yawn to drive as every other fast Japanese car I've ever driven was. Just me.

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my car tells me to do ..things

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+1 I thought I should go drive it, but I'm just not interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrd8VzfZzN8

I wouldn't buy one just as i wouldn't buy a Z06, but driving it for an hour or two is a blast. The car makes power like a rail. The only car I've ever driven with this much oomph was a 700+ HP Supra with no interior and a 7 gallon fuel cell, and it handles like a 914..........unbelievable until you drive it

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Thanks for posting. The driver wasn't going as fast as the GT3 will go with all this drifting, lots of time lost sideways. I would expect both cars to be very close on any given track, the question remains whether the GTR can take a season of racing as this GT3 did, it's an exciting time to be a car enthusiast! Regards, Chris

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You will agree that it's much EASIER to be fast in a GTR than a GT3. You can spin it which ever way you want. I faced a similar delima with the e46 m3 vs 996 and I chose the 996 obviously.

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Just what we needed this thread resurected..... The Nissan GTR..........living proof, that with enough HP you can make a pig fly.....

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Stock Z06 and 08 Viper went 1:31 and 1:32 with that same driver. And another "pro" went 1:34 in a stock 997 TT on PS2's. There is no way a healthy GT3 runs that slow.

Read this... http://jalopnik.com/5056908/porsche-...ring-lap-times 'nuf said.

I drove one back to back to back with 7 supercars at the supercar sensation hoopla in charlotte. we got to drive it along with 911 TT, Ferrari F430, gallardo, M3, Mercedes CLK 63 AMG, and Aston Martin. there were 14 or 15 of us, strangers for the most part. I think everyone of us was highly impressed with this car's raw power. While there is no comparison to it and the F430, it feels faster. The 911TT with tiptronic didn't even seem to be playing in the same game with GTR, F430, and Gallardo, and Im a Porsche guy through and through. It was the only car that was broken loose all day with traction control on. I hate to sound like one of the ricer guys, but that car is amazing, but I agree it looks like the box it came in.....great line

How were you driving it? Laps? or what?

I wish. We left charlotte early in the morning, went up into the WNC moutains, got back to charlotte about 9pm. It was the virgin run for a new company. He posted in this forum for volunteers, and I was lucky enough to go.There was also a DE instructor from the Charlotte PCA in the group. He took a ton of pictures. It was for filming, pictures, etc for the grand opening on 11/24 I believe. There was a second run a few days later, as we ran into bad weather and didn't finish. I let my son take my place for the second trip. One of the best days I can remember since college, but I knew my son would never forgive me if I didn't pass along the opportunity. I will post the link in a follow up post. I'm on the wrong PC right now

Evidence of the bad weather and other photos. Check out David's website. He is a great guy and I would recommend you take a day and try his products if youre anywhere close to Charlotte, or an airplane. I am not affiliated, just lucky enough to be one of his first customers. I believe he is working on details for a track day option, but that isn't ready yet. I hope he gets it started. I'll be firsst for that too, if at all possible http://harveyy.smugmug.com/gallery/6...89859130_fQubo http://www.supercarsensation.com/

Wow, that photo really puts the size in perspective. Kind of surprised.

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wierd, I get that too... well from my car (not yours...)

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Surely. And similarly, the 997GT3 is far easier to drive fast than, say, a 964RS. I guess this is evolution! Regards, Chris

I stopped at the Nissan dealer last week with my Pathfinder (my other car) for service and they had a GTR in the showroom. I must say it does look very nice, not saying I'd buy one, especially when the price is close to a 997, but it did look very nice.

I hate those kind of videos.........drag racing a Porsche? and testing an AWD against a RWD with a driver who slides around the track in one car and sticks it in another? (dont get me wrong, he is obviously a skilled driver) Plus, who cares who can beat who...the Porsche IS the standard benchmark... go ahead beat in one catagory, loose in another. In the first few lines they said the Nissan was designed to beat the 911 Turbo, so why didnt they challange that car? Just a stupid video IMHO. But I like the drifts, cool looking!

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No. I had a 1986 Pathfinder which DID rust. WHen I bought the 2001, that was my FIRST question. This one has not rusted at all. I think just about all the car companies are using some sort of Galvinizing these days.

Hitler's GTR??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOAXJTTc__w

This one beats them all. Thanks for sharing.

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Oh man, I haven't laughed that hard for ages. My wife was breaking up too. thanks! PS: kind of fun to see the GTR in the two recent episodes of Top Gear. And yes, they did engage launch control.

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i had read somewhere that 2010 GTRs will not have launch control.

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thats a good one

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I just put it here yesterday.......

It's a Japanese Corvette. Take that any way you want.

My brother owns a GTR and I've had the opportunity of driving it a couple of times, unfortunately never on a track. Although I prefer the 911 styling over the GTR, its performance is unreal. Its straight line acceleration alone is worth the price of admission, and with all of its electronic aids, it's possible to drive this car extremely hard with little concern about losing control. It's the antithesis of a 993 I use to own, which just loved to do a 180. When I think about it however, I think most 993 owners take a great deal of pride in learning how to push their 993s hard without losing control. Bottom line is that I would never buy one for myself, but I would never pass on the opportunity of driving one. Also, if you see one on the road, I wouldn't engage him in spirited driving, unless your car is highly modified.

fast1 has it exactly - well stated.

this car is as dumb as the nsx and anyone who buys one is equally dumb

I owned a G35 6mt for a few years. Not as fast as this car but plenty fast and, of ourse, very similar. The key thing to me is that it is a totally different car than a 911. In all facets it's just different. To me they are much less cars than a 911 or to quote dallasboats, above me, "this car is as dumb as the nsx and anyone who buys one is equally dumb." However, they have their place in society. I owned the Infiniti for 3 years, took it in for scheduled maintenance but never once had any problem with the car. It was mechanically perfect for the whole 50,000 miles I drove it. I bet if you read GTR/Z/G35 boards they would not talk about engine problems like Porsche boards do. However, if I had $80k to spend I would much rather buy a new 911 than a new GTR and it's not even close. To me, GTR, NSX, etc... are just not as exciting as a Porsche 911.

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I saw the GTR few times at Car N Coffee in Irvine, Ca and would not buy it over the the Porsche 911. It is big and bulky. However, your statement is a bit too strong.

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They may be dumb, but they'll be the dumbest folks at the front of the pack. The GTR is hella fast - on and off the track. -td

The car is definitely fast; however, most of the credit does not go to the driver but the multiple driving aids. The 911, Z06 on the other hand requires a commitment to develop one's driving skills to a much higher degree.

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Actually there are several people that have shelled out over $20,000 (yes TWENTY THOUSAND) on new transmissions because theirs failed and Nissan denied the warranty. The GT-R not quite so reliable as other Nissans/Infinity's, especially when you track it.

I'll give it its props when it comes to performance, but ugly is still ugly. It doesn't even make a blip on my bucket list radar.

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Regarding the NSX, oh, I donno, I think Gordon Murray is a pretty smart guy... ///Michael