Couple questions about a 2002 CPO

Hello All, I purchased a 2002 certified pre-owned 996 from a dealership a 3 weeks back and started noticing a couple of concerns. First the car sometimes pops out of gear, it only happens with 2nd gear, only when I am not accelerating, and typically within 15 seconds of shifting to second in the first place. Has anyone had any experience with this issue? I searched the interenet and some other car forums (not porsche) said an issue like this could be due to a bent fork, or sync issues. Does that sound accuate? Also, the oil pressure seems to fluctuate a lot is that normal? The check oil light never goes on, but it fluctuates from 2-5. Any input would be appreciated, -Tom

Go to the dealership. You have the CPO. That's great. The 2nd gear pop-out is not uncommon. They will know what to do.

Thanks, I was worried what would be and what would not be covered by CPO.

I just copied and pasted this from the CPO brochure I found. My dealer has been great as long as the item is on the list. And the most important (expensive) items seem to be! ThePorsche Approved Limited Warranty offers full peace of mind that in the unlikely event of your Porsche developing a fault, the affected parts will be replaced or repaired as required*** with no deductible. The warranty coverage is limited to the following components: • Engine: Engine block and all engine internal parts, cylinder head(s) and valve assembly, oil cooler(s), head gasket(s), manifolds, flywheel, chains/tensioner, oil pan, oil pump, exhaust manifold, turbo charger, clutch master and master and slave cylinders, and all related engine seals and gaskets if related to warranty repair. •Transmission:Transmission case and differential housing(s) and all their internal parts, clutch master cylinder, clutch slave cylinder, torque converter, flex plate, and all seals and gaskets. •Drive Train: Torque tube, drive shaft assembly, center bearing assembly, and drive axle with constant velocity joints. •Suspension & Steering: Steering wheel, rack and pinion steering gear, power steering pump. •Cooling System: Water pump, fan, thermostat, radiator thermoswitch, and all related seals and gaskets. •Heating/Air Conditioning: Heater/air conditioning regulation controls, a/c clutch, compressor, condenser, evaporator, control unit for climate control. •Fuel System: Fuel injectors, throttle valve housing, air flow sensor, intake air distributor, intake manifold, pressure regulator, temperature sensors, control units, warm-up regulator, fuel distributor, fuel line, air pump, and all related seals and gaskets. •Electrical System: Fuel pump, oil temperature sending unit, turbo charger water pump, alternator, voltage regulator, starter, radiator fan switch, ignition coil, ignition distributor, hall sensor, knock sensor, distributor cap(s), rotor, ignition cables/ connectors, high beam switch, all electrical motors, pumps, and all control units for the following factory installed systems (if equipped): Anti-Lock Braking System, supplemental restraint, wiper/washer, intensive headlight washer, headlights, door lock, power windows, rear wiper, rear hatch release, spoiler, cruise control, factory alarm, Porsche Dynamic all-wheel drive (Carrera 4), limited slip differential (928), tire pressure warning (928), central information panel, on-board computer, and climate control. •ABS Brake System (if equipped): ABS wheel sensors, control unit, modulator, ABS hydraulic pump. •Supplemental Restraint System (if equipped): Air Bag control unit and airbag sensor. •Brake System: Master cylinder, brake pressure regulator, brake pressure accumulator, brake booster. Limitations. The warranty does not cover: •Batteries damaged from storage •Batteries damaged from lack of use •Tires damaged by road hazard •Tires damaged by premature wear •Parts that fail due to lack of maintenance • Normal wear and tear • Cleaning and polishing • Lubricants •Air conditioner refrigerant charge •Glass Breakage •Vehicles originating outside of USA and Canada •Unauthorized modifications •Wheel balancing and tires Validity. For added convenience, your Porsche Approved Limited Warranty coverage is included in the purchase price. Since the warranty applies to the vehicle rather than the owner, it remains intact and can be transferred with the private selling of your Porsche. Porsche Roadside Assistance. Your Porsche Approved vehicle also comes with Porsche Roadside Assistance, an exclusive support service that offers added security when travelling at home or abroad. In addition to breakdown, accident, transport and recovery, the program includes a range of other coverage services. Please see your dealer for more information. Peace of mind. With the added security that comes with comprehensive warranty cover, you can now look forwardto many thousands of miles of even greater driving pleasure from your Porsche. *** Warranty Coverage: Porsche Cars North America will repair or replace with a new part distributed by Porsche Cars North America, at its sole option, any factory-installed part that is faulty in material or workmanship under normal use. Warranty repairs will be made free of charge for parts and labor at an authorized Porsche dealer.

PS: Oil pressure fluctuation is normal. Mine runs 4-5 at 3000 RPM but drops to 2 or so at idle.

Second gear popping out seems to be a 'known' problem with the 996s and your CPO should cover any work to remedy it. As mentioned, oil pressure can be affected by engine rpm, cold vs hot engine temps etc. Nice to know you are covered though.GL

a lot of dealers have denied the 2nd gear popout issue is a fault and claim its due to the car being driven hard/badly so be prepared, you should search for 'second gear popout issue' you'll find a ton of info on it, one guy was starting a class action a little while ago but i think the dealer ended up fixing it hopefully your dealer will do the honorable thing, being that you only got the car 3 weeks ago i really cant see them saying no, if you had owned it for a couple of years i suspect you would have a battle on your hands fyi. only way to fix it is a tranny rebuild, costing anywhere from 6-10k

I'm interested to see how this works out. I'll keep everyone in the loop.

keep us posted

Just got a call from the dealer. He said their tech took it out, was able to replicate the issue. They think that something might be broken under the center console? Estimating cost at $200, and not covered via CPO. I asked about the transmission, he said, we don't think it is that, but if it was that would be covered by the CPO. Annoying, the dealership i bought the car from is in CT, I get the car serviced where i live in MA. Frustrating, as I'll have to pay the $200 myself as opposed to getting a CPO car that was not broken.

The are BSing you. There is nothing under the console that would cause it to pop out of gear. If the linkage is out of adjustment, or one of the plastic components is worn then it might be hard to get into gear, but once it is in gear it has nothing to do with popping out of gear. This is a problem internal to the trans. I would tell the dealer to "fix" the problem they see, and if the issue goes away, fine. But if it continues then they should credit the money and fix the trans.

^^^ What he said. I would ask for specifics. Don't feed them any suggestions. And within just 3 weeks, I would get your salesman involved. Be like, WTF I just bought this car, got a CPO for peace of mind, and now this?

I'm gonna be calling the salesperson tomorrow once they give me an actual idea of what they think is wrong. I'm beyond frustrated actually, maybe I just put too much faith in a car with a CPO thinking I wouldn't have to deal with this lasagna. Since getting the car I've had to get a coil replaced (Covered by CPO), which the dealership was my fault for washing the car. They also needed to replace the coolant tank or something (also covered by the CPO). In 3 weeks I've had to make 2 trips to a dealership and been without my car for 5+ days. Luckily it's a weekend car but still annoying as hell to have to go back and forth like this. I've been debating selling it back to the dealer (most likely for a loss) and getting a different ride.

you need to find a new dealer for service, saying its your fault that you washed the car on the coil pack job is just plain crazy

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Salesman carries no weight at dealership. You have CPO. Speak directly with service manager or GM. Mention CPO played a major factor in your decision to buy the car. Remind the SM or GM that the dealership owes you a reaosonable degree of skill, care, and experience in diagnosing and servicing your car and you don't feel like you are getting that kind of service. Mention you feel like you are a victim of fraud and if the dealership doesn't address your complaints to your satisfaction in a reasonable amount of time you'll feel compelled to file a consumer fraud complaint against the dealer. For the tranny popping out of gear you have to be able to demo that symptom. Note when it occurs and under what circumstances and be able to reproduce it on demand. Sincerely, Macster.

So the dealership went into the console, did some adjustments and when they took it for the test drive noticed it still was popping out of second. They said at this point they think the transmission needs to be rebuilt or replaced. They then to me to get the car to the dealership I bought it from as they refused to do the work themselves (Refused may be too strong, but highly suggested) as there was a small chance it would not be covered by CPO, and if it wasn't they didn't want to charge me out of pocket, (Kudos to them) They said the selling dealership would have to fix it without worry of charge to me, since it's such a new purchase. Had to deal with the dealership in CT, they got Porsche to tow the car they'll have it in their hands tomorrow. I'm beyond frustrated at this point, I paid more for a car with a CPO for a reason not having to deal with this crap. I could have saved 6-7k if I bought the car from a private seller and didn't pay for a CPO. I've had the car 3 weeks, and it's been in the shop 4 days already, and this is gonna take another 4-10 days (depending on rebuild or replacement of transmission).... I'm getting to the point where i just want the dealership to buy the car back. My salesguy is completely worthless. Hoffman Porsche :thumbsdown:

This is from the porsche warranty request from the dealer: "Short Description of Issue: 8/13/2009 10:18:46 AM - Verified complaint of transmission popping out of second gear and found it hard to engage 2nd 5th and 6th gear. check transmission oil. slight bits of metal in oil. otherwise looks normal. clutch wear not a issue. clutch looks like it has minimal wear. suggest reman transmission install" Are there any issues with a re manufactured Transmission? How is a replaced Transmission going to effect my resale value? I imagine it will hurt it correct?

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Get the remanufactured transmission. It won't hurt resale value nearly as much as leaving the bad transmission in car. Be sure you get warranty info: 2 years, 24K miles IIRC and in writing. Honestly, these cars not collectible, won't ever be collectible, so you should just try to take care of car and if a component fails and needs to be replaced, from light bulb to tranny, just source new part from dealer or authorized Porsche parts reseller and be done with it. That transmission being replaced under warranty clearly indicates nothing you did caused the transmission to go bad so you can use this when (if) you go to sell or trade-in car as a sign you didn't abuse or mistreat transmission or car. Sincerely, Macster.

Make sure you deal with Ethan, at service desk. He is a stand up guy. I agree with impression of sales people at this dealership. They replaced my transmission under CPO for a bad synchro, and grinding when cold. Ethan gave me a Cayenne S for the three weeks they had the car. Best of luck. Also, I did not buy mine from them, but from a dealer on LI. Best of Luck.

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Had you bought a car without a warranty that did this, you would still be without the car and then paying the bill when it was ready. Look on the bright side of life.

Got the car back today, they said the transmission was fine and that when they replaced the RMS they tweaked a cable which was causing it to pop out. Said they fixed the issue, test drove no problems. Once I got the car back, i drove it around and it was popping out again. my head is about to explode.

Is this the dealer that sold you the car? First, the car should have gone through an extensive checklist to be CPO'd. They obviously didn't do a thorough job or I believe they would have found the issue with the transmission before you took delivery. Did you get a checklist with the CPO paperwork?

This is the dealer that sold me the car. I did not get a checklist with the CPO. The salesguy told me that there was not paperwork, and that it was just registered as CPO. I called a separate dealership who verified the CPO did exist. My girlfriend just picked up a CPO Cayenne S, she got the packet you are referring to. That was from a separate dealership however. I'm waiting for a callback from the General Manager now. I told the sales manager "I have no faith in this car or your ability to fix it. I want to know what I have to do to return this vehicle. This is not what I expected in buying a CPO" We'll see how this goes, unfortunately I think I'm SOL.... Anyone want to buy a certified pre-owned 02 C2 Cab?

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You'd think the car would have gone through an extensive checklist but don't bet on it. Just noticed my 03 Turbo's aftermarket battery missing vent tube connector. Someone taped the hose to the top of the battery where the hose connector should be. Tech or whomever inspected this car for its CPO classification missed this. Do not know how the system works but it could be to dealer's advantage to CPO car even with some "issues" and let customer find them. If dealer can argue issues due to wear/tear, no warranty claim. Or if warranty claim PCNA pays. If dealer finds any issues addressing them could come off its bottom line. And if too many issues or issue too expensive -- like new tranny -- car might not qualify for CPO and then dealer's stuck with a car it can't CPO and thus ask more money for and to make matters worse has to spend no little amount of money fixed the car before it can sell it. Sincerely, Macster.

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Write a letter to the dealer stating you do not feel safe in the car and you want them to buy it back at full price. Tell them you have spoken to a lawyer and they and PCNA have had two attempts to fix the problem so far. Then wait and see what happens. If nothing happens thencontact a lawyer that specializes in lemon laws. Drop their name in the second letter. You will get your car fixed. it is not worth the price of a rebuilt tranny for them to buy back the car. It sux but you have to fight them head on. Written by a man who waited 5 weeks but got a new rebuilt engine after getting a run-around.

I'm pretty sure lemon laws only refer to new cars. Sounds like Macster hit it on the head. Sell it CPO as is, then fix what the customer finds. No CPO packet, then it's not CPO'ed correctly.

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If that's the dealer's standard practice, then it will eventually bit them in the a$$. I would imagine that PCNA pays attention to such. The car should pass a CPO inspection. Anything that it takes to make the car right goes to the dealer's bottom line on the car. If I was PCNA, I wouldn't want to foot the bill for something that should have been discovered during a CPO inspection. "Fool me once, shame on�shame on you. Fool me�you can't get fooled again." -George Bush (or maybe Pete Townshend)

Just wanted to chime in with an update: The car still pops out, but very intermittently. I spoke with the General Manager, Sales Manager, and one of the executive directors of the dealership when I drove down there Saturday and refused to leave until I spoke with them. I was unable to replicate the problem for them (as I said it happens very intermittently), so they said they believe me and were willing to give me a Cayman as a loaner while they checked it again, or if I could figure out a way to replicate it for them, they would let me trade in the car and they would give me what I paid for it in trade. They also said they would fix the problem, if there was one, but wanted to give me the option of the trade as they could tell i was pretty annoyed at this whole experience. I basically told them that no one NEEDS a porsche, i bought this vehicle because i wanted an enjoyable experience. This experience has been nothing but a train wreck, and not what I signed up for at all. Other than the 2nd gear issue, I love this car. Drives extremely strong, is in great condition, and is just a blast to be in. I'll post some pics shortly.

Just wanted to chime in with an update: The car still pops out, but very intermittently. I spoke with the General Manager, Sales Manager, and one of the executive directors of the dealership when I drove down there Saturday and refused to leave until I spoke with them. I was unable to replicate the problem for them (as I said it happens very intermittently), so they said they believe me and were willing to give me a Cayman as a loaner while they checked it again, or if I could figure out a way to replicate it for them, they would let me trade in the car and they would give me what I paid for it in trade. They also said they would fix the problem, if there was one, but wanted to give me the option of the trade as they could tell i was pretty annoyed at this whole experience. I basically told them that no one NEEDS a porsche, i bought this vehicle because i wanted an enjoyable experience. This experience has been nothing but a train wreck, and not what I signed up for at all. Other than the 2nd gear issue, I love this car. Drives extremely strong, is in great condition, and is just a blast to be in. I'll post some pics shortly.

hope this helps http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=ocatermi..._law&csid=Eoca

sorry, i thought you bought the car in MA, but then saw it was ct here's that link http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/rpt/2005-R-0871.htm

Wow, can't believe how long it's been since I've posted about this problem. I've been going back and fourth with the dealership/porsche about this problem for the past few months and it finally seems to be coming to an end. The car has been in and out of the shop for the same problem (popping out of 2nd). After porsche put me (and the dealership) through the run around over and over and over they finally agreed to replace the tranny and gave me approx 2k for the extended time the car has been in the shop. I've owned the car for 5 months, and literally it's been in the shop for 3 of those months. Ethan (sevice manager) swears the car is good as gold now, but holy ****, what a pain in the *** this was. I'll post pics when I actually get the car back, I also had them put in a short shifter.

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Wow is right. Way to stick to your guns. Sincerely, Macster.

Thanks for the update. Glad they "finally" took care of you.

So they have a 2006 997 cab, 20k miles on it, CPO'd. They'd be willing to sell me for 22k. Seems likes a pretty solid deal considering mine is a 02 996 cab with 60k miles on it. Thoughts?

Is that 22K plus your car as a trade in?

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The dealer you are dealing with seems to be part of your continuing problem with your Porsche, especially when represented by them to be a CPO car. Will the 997 CPO be as difficult as your current car ? What did you pay for your 996 cab?

mrwabam, You and I are in the same position. I also just bought a CPO 996 (2003 C2) and have had a few concerns about it. I also live in MA and bought it two months ago from a dealer in NH. The first week after I brought it home, the car would not start. I had it towed to the dealer who found a bad alternator and battery which were replaced. It should be noted that I did get the check-list and these items were cleared as fine. The other day I was driving on an on-ramp for I-93 and used the headlamp washers when one of the covers for the washers flew off (after bouncing off the windshield). This may seem minor but it doesn't build my confidence in the product. When I called a nearby dealership, they told me that the washer cover is not covered under my CPO warranty, but when I called the dealership in NH, they said go ahead and bring it in for them to fix. From everything I've read, the CPO warranty should cover all these things. I don't understand the reluctance of certain dealers to honor the warranty. I agree with you that the car is great to drive and I'm very happy that I bought it, but I have not been impressed with the build quality of the vehicle. I've always owned Hondas and Acuras before which run like clocks and feel more substantial (especially with regard to the interior - i.e. turn signal feels like it's going to break off daily). Oh well, I guess it's the price you pay for being able to drive a slice of race car whenever you want to...

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Thats completely ridiculous it took them that long to correct your problem. The car is CPO, period! Bottom line, end of story. It doesn't matter what dealer you have the car it. You don't need to take the car to the selling dealer to get warranty work done, period. I would avoid both dealers like the plague, they obviously completely imcompetent. Kudos to PCNA for authorizing a reman transmission (as opposed to a internal repair) but I would say you deserved it after having your shop in the car for three months.

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That's a steal. But I figure its 22k+your current car. Gotta weigh the price. You do have one thing straight though. You should have a good warrenty service with no run around.

Ive had 3 cpo BMW's over the years and the warranty is not worth the paper it's written on. They can always find a way out of fixing something, or it doesnt't cover the particular part. You have to do what the OP has done and cause a fuss before anything will be done. The one warranty very few dealers know about and you must fight them on is the 8 year/80k mile federally mandated emissions warranty. It covers everything emissions related as listed. If you ever have a PCM problem it is covered under this warranty because it is the heart of the OBD system. It will also cover the Cats for this period. You do not have to be the original owner, just take a copy of the warranty off the GOV site and tell them to fix it. So let this be a lesson, don't pay a lot more for a CPO car, at least not the 6,000. Maybe 2,000 It does seem funny with the little time I've spent on this forum but the low mileage cars seem to be the ones to avoid. Cars with more miles seem to have all the gremlins fixed and just keep racking up the miles.