63 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHSounds like Marbles, Oil Everywhere
Reported or suspected cause
<3,000rpm
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Leading evidence: '<3,000rpm' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is '<3,000rpm' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check on the cost and try' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Install under warranty, the engine will be warrantied
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Since his engine is getting installed under warranty, the engine will be warrantied for the amount of time remaining on his warranty.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
It would of been cheaper anyways to just keep the friction bearings used in air-cooled motors...that have had probably a 100% record of lasting.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
Look at the Option Code sticker located either a) under the hood (trunk) or b) located in the front inside cover of one of his Manuals, most likely the Maintenance Manual.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
I'll check on the cost and try to decide if it's worth it.
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Use a guality oil and change it every 5K miles (my oil/filter change schedule) to oh I don't know, pick a reasonable number of miles: 6K or 7K or even 10K, but I feel close to 10K approaching the oil's safe service life end.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Use a guality oil and change it every 5K miles (my oil/filter change schedule) to oh I don't know, pick a reasonable number of miles: 6K or 7K or even 10K, but I feel close to 10K approaching the oil's safe service life end.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
Look at the Option Code sticker located either a) under the hood (trunk) or b) located in the front inside cover of one of his Manuals, most likely the Maintenance Manual.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
63 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
3 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
I stopped immediately but it looks like it didn't help.
Can't believe it happened to me. Flat bedded to Dealer last night. Tranny pulled, intermediate shaft.
CPO though so hoping for the best.
The sensation is like a bunch of marbles banging in the engine. I stopped immediately but it looks like it didn't help.
Grieve then call Strasse Auto in Newport...California for rebuilt eng or re manufactured eng, their number is [phone removed]. Good luck and sorry this happened and been there done that.
I'll check on the cost and try to decide if it's worth it. Seem to recall there's a recent thread on this issue.
What I'd really like to consider is putting a GT3 engine in. It's supposed to be the best of the wet engines to date.
Raby's upgrade doesn't sound bad afterall............
Why couldn't Porsche just you a friction bearing like the older 911's?
The old magnesium cases had the IMS ride right on the case with no bearing!
I guess I see it differently. How about if all of us that
haven't
had any issues post up - would Raby's "upgrade" sound like its worth it then? Doubtful. But as usual, this is a discussion that will always arrive at the same destination, aboard the failboat.
I haven't really given it much thought yet but I'm sure you're correct. Oh well if dreams were horses... Right now, I'll settle for not being out of pocket.
Bearing failure that leads to catastrophic engine failure is unacceptable by any make IMO.
It would of been cheaper anyways to just keep the friction bearings used in air-cooled motors...that have had probably a 100% record of lasting.
As a 2002 C4S owner myself (with 49K) these threads make me nervous... but you should be all good with the CPO.
It would be great to upgrade to a X51...
Receiver,
Could you post up a little more background on your car?
service history
auto/stick
ever tracked or DEd
daily driving
oil
mods
More interested in the profile of the cars that are having problems. There are some at 40k-ish that seem to be primarily street cars and then there are others that are 90k-ish with no problems at all, and those have seen track time.
Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post it.
Receiver, that sucks! Since it is CPO, Porsche should take care of you! Please keep us posted.
If I ever get the opportunity to get another 911, I am going to try to get an '09 or later 997.
The new 9A1 engines:
do not have an IMS shaft
have 40% fewer moving parts
have apparently eliminated the RMS leaks
have DFI
the water pump is external to the engine.
Though I agree that the new 9A1 engines may not have all the same problems of the M96/M97, it will be a few years before we all see if any new issues develop... The ball bearings or fetzer valves could become a major issue. (Fletch reference)
Sean,
Sorry to hear of the 02 C4S engine failure. It is really pathetic that an engine from Porche at those miles needs replacement. (Covered or not) Based on your previous post it seems you bought the car last year after a good search. Did you say 42,000 or 72,000 miles? Did you change the oil at 5000 or 15000 miles? If you did your own oil changes did you ever examine the engine for signs of "oil" leaks. How strick were you with not running below 3000 RPM's, occasional red lines, no lugging and 5W/40 oil? You seem to be a seasoned Porche driver and I am only asking to see "if" any of this nonsence really makes any difference. I have gotten to the point of calling it "preventative driving" a Porche. For a car with such a racing pedigree this is pretty poor performance. Not really knowing the previous history of how the car was driven by previous owners really makes it impossible to predict the failure rates of these engines. I do my oil changes every 5000 miles with 5W/40 and spend some time looking for signs of oils leaks. I am wondering if more folks did their oil changes and observed their engines if the failure rates would be the same. I too daily drive my C4S and hope not to be reporting the pathetic Porche engine swap.
Covered under the CPO warranty.
Remanufactured ( read new ) engine ordered. Should have car back next week.
The bolt on the IMS seal broke and that is what the marble sound was. I'm told by some indy friends that the problem has been resolved on the engine which I will be getting as a replacement as they have beefed up the bearing and seal. Anybody know anything about this?
That's awesome.
I think I'd send the GM or Service Manager a nice Xmas card!
The only details I've been able to find out about the bolts is using some that are encapsulated with a sealant to prevent weeping leaks.
When I get the car back, I'll definitely make my appreciation known to the service mgr. Throughout the process, I'm going to try and find out as much as I can re what Porsche has done on the replacement engines to ensure that the problem doesn't re occur. My CPO warranty runs out next year and I'll have a decision to make at that time.
I've never heard of this. What is the 3,000 RPM... all about? As a Porsche newbie the rev range on this thing is much different than the old M car and I've been wondering where I should run it.
Has a class action suit against Porsche ever been attempted to get them to do a recall?
My opinion is 3K rpms is a red herring. Most engines spend their lives at part throttle and 3000 rpms is about that. If an engine has an inherent weakness then its failure can come at any time and it just so happens most fail "at 3000 rpms" or close cause that's where these engines spend alot of time.
On a road trip my Boxster for instance can spend hours at 3000 rpms. Even around town 3000 rpm is a good cruising rpm in the appropriate gear.
My advice is to give the engine time to warm up a bit. I usually wait until I hear the secondary air injection pump shut off, though with my Turbo I can't hear that but I can sense when the engine rpms drop a bit and the engine's idle smooths up.
Then drive the car reasonably gently until all vital fluids (oil mainly cause it takes the longest to warm up) are up to operating temperature.
Then just drive the car. Avoid abnormally low rpms/high loads as a matter of course and I'd not advise to keep the rpms at red line for long periods of time, but anywhere between these two extremes is just fine.
Use a guality oil and change it every 5K miles (my oil/filter change schedule) to oh I don't know, pick a reasonable number of miles: 6K or 7K or even 10K, but I feel close to 10K approaching the oil's safe service life end.
My desire is to have a pile of oil change receipts and not one engine replacement receipt. That is I'm willing to splurge a bit on oil/filter services because I believe doing so will prolong the engine's useful life at a reasonable cost in more frequent oil/filter services.
So far so good and my 02 Boxster has reached 226K miles with 5K oil changes and no engine replacement.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Sunset Porsche is promoting and engine sale. No core return required.
If you inquire about this via email they will send you a sales list of all engines available.
To me, the issue is <3,000rpm
under load
. One look at a torque curve for this engine, and you see the problem: it is extremely inefficient much below 3,000 rpm in a gear that doesn't offer a lot of torque multiplication. I am not excusing Porsche, and I'm not saying that low rpm operation causes engine failure. But I strongly believe that an engine will last longer if it is not operated under load at an rpm at which it's that inefficient.
Plus - and this may be my imagination, I guess... - once you get the image in your head of how that intermediate shaft sits in there, the idea of the engine bucking because it's being lugged is the stuff of nightmares.
You don't have to convince me to run it over 3K, I love the way it sounds there
Just kind of felt obnoxious always running it there, but now I have an excuse...the engine will blow if I don't
I saw the list yesterday. There are no 3.6 X51 motors available, but they have the 3.8 X51 motors for only $8,190. The manual 3.6 motor was also $8,190., but I heard they already sold out of them. No 3.4 996 motors on the list....
I'd be happy to talk to you about options.. Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
This seems to be a week of failures, we've had more calls than usual this week and that sucks just before Christmas.
It is so hard to believe that a 3.8 X51 engine can be bought for $8,190 while the last time I priced a 3.4 it was $11,795 plus core. Sunset is great and they do not control these prices. But how can Porsche sell a 3.8 X51 for so much less than a palin vanilla 3.4. Maybe they are taking into account the failure rate on the 3.4 and know they might have to replace it again in the 24 month warranty period.
$8190 Wow. I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't yank my Porsche reman/new 3.4L with a little over 15k miles, sell it, and pay to have a 3.8L installed by Rook or the like.
Since his engine is getting installed under warranty, the engine will be warrantied for the amount of time remaining on his warranty.
Had he paid for the engine, then yes it would have been warrantied for two years and unlimited milage.
It would appear that PCNA was cleaning out their warehouse from the list of engines sent out to dealers that were available. Makes sense since these engines really aren't items sold in mass anymore.
It makes it more profitable to the dealers to stock a motor if they don't need to pay a core charge, Sunset is just passing the savings on to the end user.
I thought it cost a lot more to put a 3.8L into a 996. Harness, wiring etc needs to be modified? am i wrong?. otherwise the 3.8 sounds like a great deal
I imagine it would be especially fun in a '99 without throttle-by-wire. Also needs the ECU. And probably a muffler? All those hidden costs really add up fast. Then include the 'swap/install' if you don't DIY.
Picking the car up today.
It's been two weeks. The dealer has been great.
My old engine is still there. Hoping to take some pictures and will post them if I think they're helpful.
No more Cobalts, Lancers and Avengers for me.
Surprised I didn't kill myself tryng to change lanes in these slugs.
Picked her up on Wed. Love the new engine. Better sound, smoother and feels peppier although I won't be pushing her for a while.
My old engine was still there and I had a look at the IMS. Not worth taking pictures as the seal and bolt were gone. I was amazed at how small the IMS is given how important it is.
The dealer was spectacular, especially since I did not buy the car form him. No problem getting the engine covered under the CPO warranty. In fact, my out of pocket was zero except renting a car for two weeks. I'm going to try and get that back as well but I won't be real upset if they say no.
Porsche came through for me on this one.
Can someone explain to me what a 3.8 x51 is? Is that a 997 motor or a gt3 motor or what? If it can be made to fit a late 996 without too much issue...I am very tempted to just buy one and store it since I have some space to let it sit.
The 3.8L motor is a 997 motor in the "S" models.
The X51 is an option (Carrera Power Kit) which can be added to the 3.8L motors to increase the HP.
The X51 added to the 997.1 motor (355 HP) will increase the HP by 26 HP to get 381 HP.
The X51 added to the new 997.2 motor (385 HP) will increase the HP by 23 HP to yield 408 HP.
OK.
The Carrera Power Kit on the 997.2 cars includes the following:
Engine upgrade to 408 hp. Comprised of modified cylinder heads, carbon-fiber air filter casing (upper part), new variable resonance intake manifold with six tuning flaps, sports exhaust system featuring specially designed twin dual-tube tailpipes and modified engine management. Note: also available in conjunction with PDK.
I'm sorry I was remiss in my earlier post.
Not necessarily ^. Since your dad's car is a 997 S, he does have a 3.8L engine, which is basically the same M96 motor that is in the 996 cars. However, he may NOT have the X51 package.
Look at the Option Code sticker located either a) under the hood (trunk) or b) located in the front inside cover of one of his Manuals, most likely the Maintenance Manual. If you find the option code X51 then, yes, he does have the Carrera Power Kit option. If you don't see X51, then he probably does not have that on his car.
The X51 option is the most expensive option Porsche offers and cost $16,900 from the factory. It can be retrofitted later, but is is even more costly to do it after the car is built.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
