track day oil pressure - what is normal range ?

I was on the track last saturday and I was paying attention to my oil pressure as some have seen drop in pressure on their car. I saw the oil pressure in average in the 3 to 4 range, but on some turns I could see it drops in the low 2. All this at relatively hight RPM, always above 4k RPM Is that normal pressure ? when at 2, the pressure would usually come back after 4 or 5 seconds. I never looked at the pressure gage before...keeping my eyes on the road Any confirmation on this topic would help. My car is 2003 MkII 3.6 engine, base Carrera see the video on youtube, oil pressure is not easy to see but you can tell when it drops You Tube Phil

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IIRC the factory manual calls out oil pressure at 5000 rpms to be (approx) 6 bar with the oil at 90C. Two problems with the above. One you do not know the oil temp and two you do not know the oil pressure. The dash oil pressure gage is probably not very accurate. It is as is the coolant temp gage more an idiot light than a genuine trustworthy oil pressure reporting instrument. The oil pressure at other lower rpms at 90C can be lower/will be lower but as long as the oil pressure warning light doesn't come on things should be ok. Should be. Generally if they are not the oil pressure light is a lagging indicator... There are several variables... what oil were you running? How fresh was the oil? What was the oil temp? At the track the oil temp may have been (probably was) way hotter than 90C (194F). Under hard driving on curvy mountain roads in 80F heat I've seen coolant temps of 226F ( but never hotter) in my Boxster and the oil temp has to be that hot or hotter. So the chances are very good the oil temp was at least that high maybe higher in the case of your car. As a point of reference in talking oil pressure over with Porsche techs they have told me that in the new DFI engines with variable oil pressure it is a bit unnerving at first to rev the hot engine and hold the revs steady and see the oil pressure go up as usual but then drop to around 3 bar. But of course the DFI engines do just fine at this pressure. The earlier generations of Porsche engines were fed oil at too high a pressure which wastes gasoline and heats the oil and this is one reason why variable engine oil pumps have started to come into vogue.

I am really looking for a good way to get precise oil pressure and temperature. i saw some post on boxster forums but I'd love to hear feedback from 996 people as to where I can put sensors for those values. http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-r...mp-sensor.html With all the blown engine fear, I am surprised there are not DIY to install at least an oil temp gauge.. :S

BTW. I am running less than 1000 miles 0W40 Mobil1 oil (oem recommended) The water temp stayed right on the 180F mark, sometime the needle would go in the middle of the '0' digit, which I assume is 200F. The track temp was in the 80F all day. when oil pressure was low, I tried to see if releasing or pressing the gas hard would change anything, or even putting to neutral (clutch) and the pressure would not change much. I tried those exercise for only 1 or 2 seconds as I was on hot track

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Install good gages. I installed an oil pressure gage in my 1st car, and 510 Datsun. Used a T-fitting to connect the oil pressure gage line to the same place the oil pressure switch for the low oil pressure warning light got its oil pressure from -- the main engine oil galley. I installed a coolant temp gage but I do not recall now where I connected its sensor but probably at the same place -- with a T fitting -- the engine coolant temp sensor connected. In the case of the 996 engine the oil pressure sensor is located at the top of one of the camshaft covers. This is where it is located on my Boxster engine, too. My Turbo's engine has a similar distant oil pressure sensor location.) The techs point out this location is about as far away from the oil pump as it can be. It is this distance that has some nervous Nellies seeing a slight delay in oil pressure at engine start that has them in a panic the engine is operating sans any oil pressure. Sorry I digress. Anyhow, you'd probably rig something up to take oil pressure from the same location or you could possibly pick up oil pressure -- maybe even oil temperature -- from some location (already tapped!) on the block that has you getting oil pressure/temp from a main oil galley.

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Some coolant temp sensors/gages are pretty responsive -- relatively speaking -- and some aren't. You really can't know how hot the coolant temp is/was from the needle's position until you "calibrate" it by noting where it is and the how hot the coolant is using (as I have) an OBD2 code reader to view the real time coolant temp. If you tell me the radiator fans were on the coolant was at least 212F and if the fans were on high the coolant was at 216F. My WAG is based on what I've observed with my Boxster and given you were on a track running the engine hard is the coolant temp was much hotter probably close to if not at 226F. Oil temperature was at least as hot as the coolant and probably hotter yet. Another consideration is the oil pressure sensor may just not be working very good. They've been know to fail, supply false readings. But before you replace this you probably want to verify the sensor's accuracy by comparing its reading to that provided by a known good gage. Or if the sensor isn't that much and that much trouble to change out just replace the old sensor with a new one.

using the OBD reader to check the value shown on the dashboard is a very good idea. I'll see if my durametric can show me some good data. what obdII reader to you suggest ?

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If you have a Durametric it should be able to do what you want, at least regarding coolant temp. Not sure if it can read oil pressure/temp from the engine controller. (My 02 Boxster doesn't provide an analog oil pressure reading. All the engine has is an oil pressure sensor that signals either no/or not enough oil pressure or some/enough (?) oil pressure. I have a less sophisticated generic OBD2 code reader/data viewer from Actron that I use. I use another device once in a while. It is one my employer produces/sells and one for which I'm the primary firmware engineer. I do not wish to name this product as it might seem like I'm touting it here. There are other devices on the market, too, besides the ones I mentioned above. Shop around. Ask around. Find out what others use on the track to gather engine telemetry of the type you wish to gather.

Phil, if you have an Android phone or tablet, you can get a mini Bluetooth obd ii adapter for $15 and get the Torque app for $5. Just search in Amazon and eBay. Torque has tons of features for diagnostic or entertaining purposes and it's so convenient to use. No generic obd ii scanners can read the transmission temp though afaik.

I actually have the bluetooth for iphone thingy, calle bt1. what is the full name of your app ? I looked for torque app and could not find anything obd related.

ohh I see this is android stuff I am on the apple team lol I'll look into it,

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Consistent with what I saw the one time I tracked my 3.4.

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Improve the weakest link 1st, your oil. Search for recommendations & change right before the track day.

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Since there are a million discussions that all quickly deteriorate in quality, can you just tell us what you've found to work well at the track to minimize these fluctuations? Thanks, S.

Phil do you have a X51 oil pan and were the 2 bar readings on both left and right hand turns?.... As for oils (God help me), I race on 15-50. I know cups were recommended to run 0-40, but most racers I know go thicker.....

I do not have the x51 sump yet I have just bought a used j3 motorsport oil sump plate and x51 replica baffle, I'll see if it helps. I believe the 3 bar where on left or right turn alike but homestead has most left turns thought. FYI: I was running on Yokohama ad-08 I am hesitant to use thicker oil but I might try it someday.

I will see 2 bar on some turns. I have used all the Mobil 1 oils (0-40 5-40 5-50) and I get the higher pressure with 5-50. My car is a 3.6 with a x-51 pan and running slicks. I would use a 5-50 or 15-50. 0-40 is too thin for FL for the track.

glad to hear some people seeing same as me the 2 bar

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I suggested a search to avoid the deterioration. My post was in reference to Mobil 1 0W/40's reputation of premature viscosity deterioration. I only run Michelin PS2's on my car for Streets of Willow STS & autocrosses so no fluctuations or tough oil tests. The only mod I have done to the oil system is enlarging the stock baffle openings.

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Get this done, and I honestly don't think you need to worry about oil pressure any more. That's really not the big issue with these engines, nor is the other thing that we shall not mention. As far as oil, like JR, I run a thicker oil in my race car, but race cars REALLY get flogged. For a street car doing DE's, I think you are fine with what you are running.

youtube added on page one showing the pressure drops

Exactly like mine.

Phil, not to start anything but thats not track or race oil, correct?

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The car is not a race or track car per se and its engine is not a race or track prepped engine. It is hoping quite a bit that using some "race" or "track" oil is all that is necessary to transform a relatively high performance sports car made for the street into a race/track car. In the OP's case the oil may not be responsible for the low oil pressure (assuming the oil pressure was in fact really low and not do some oil pressure gage inaccuracy). The oiling system simply may not be able to deal with the foaming that is occurring. The oil pressure drop might have been due to too much air in the oil that the swirl pots simply can't deal with given the usage of the engine. IOWs the oiling system is where the real problem lies, not with the oil. While another oil may have less propensity to foam it may come up short in other areas.

I have heard many people using the Motorsport AOS, what do you think of that solution ? My problem is that my car is under extended warranty and if i add the motorsport AOS, I am asking for trouble if I have engine problems. I am not sure what to do

I would go with what the warranty calls for if that is the case.

DId you ever replace oil pressure sender ? WHen these go bad - seems to stick at 0 or 5 - but that could be another source of the problem .....?

just because other people have seen 2 bar in turns doesn't mean its ok. you ask me, 30psi of oil pressure when at 4000rpm+ is a recipe for spun bearings sooner rather than later.

Dont tell them you track/race the car. If it blows on a track, there is no warranty.

I need to check my oil sender unit with the durametric number to see if may be the oil sender unit is simply defective. If it is, may be it willbe an opportunity for me to add a 'T' with an oil temperature sensor as well.

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I think it's a overpriced $600 part for a car that's predominately used for the street. Hell I don't even run one on my race cars, I just switch them out if they start smoking. The $110. stock ones seem to last about 2 years....

Problem is that the AOS cost $500-600 in labor to replace, so changing it every two year... I might be better off with the more expansive Motorsport version in the long run. Question for you JR, does the car smoke all the time when the AOS dies ? My car really doesn't smoke on regular basis, nor it looses any oil. But from time to time, I do have a cloud of black smoke coming out when I restart after a spirited session at the track. Nothing I can see from the driver seat, but my passenger saw it as I started the car and he was behind it. Is that enough of a sign for me to change the AOS ? Phil.

Oil smoke is blue-ish, not black. If your friend sees black, that indicates fuel.

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Don't tell who - the dealer? I go to my dealer for all track day inspections. The form they use is from pcna. I think they know some of us track our street cars

my friend tells me the smoke he saw was white... but if it was blue-ish.. hard to tell I assume.

Ok, you wrote black... No worries, probably oil smoke then. It lingers longer, vs water smoke that clears fairly quicker (and smells sweetish).

I stupidly assumed the smoke was black but I never have seen it myself really Only had people at the track sometime mentioning it I thought I had seen black smoke once when starting the car after it sat for a while but I assume those are two completely different situations

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Try allowing the car to idle/cool down 1 minute before you shut off engine. this allows oil in heads to be pumped back to the sump where it can't seep past rings.

Funny you mention that as I always keep the car at idle for a while when I go back into the pit because I believe it is better then stopping it right away. But now that you mention it, I think that before the smoke event, I stopped the car right away once into the pit because I had left the track because a CEL light came up, so I did not want to take any chances. Lucky for me I had my durametric handy and it was a simple O2 sensor message. I reset it and it did not come back.

get the x51 pan and run a 5w50 or 15w50 oil... you will see a difference of at 0.5 - 1 bar more pressure. also get yourself a 3rd radiator and do the "fan" mod... cooling cooling cooling... the cooler your oil and coolant the thicker your oil will remain and the higher the pressure you will see...

I run 15w-50 with x51 pan.... always run 4+ bar on the track. When at idle it is 3.5 when hot... Im a big fan of thicker oil. Also have a 3rd rad and the fan mod with a charger.... A must for the 3.4.

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3.5 at idle doesn't sound right. Much too high. You sure about that value? Charger? What kind of 15-50 do you use?

not to high... thicker oil will do that. Totaly diff than 0w40. I use mobile 1, the VF supercharger likes the thicker oil as well. Awesome at the track.

Phil, why are you still tracking your car with all these warning signs? Your may be on the edge of disaster. The stock M96 is a delicate POM. Stop pushing the envelope until you make your car track ready. Try pretending there is an egg between your foot and the go pedal, that seems to help.

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The car shows no sign of problem so far. This is the first time I see the oil pressure decreasing. I don't think I ever looked at the gage enough in the past to see the pressure problem. I am driving on street tire and no engine mods. The car should be able to handle it. If it doesn't, that is why my expensive warranty will have to kick in. I am about to install the X51 baffles, I hope this will help. Last time I was at the dealer to replace my water pump, I asked them about adding a 3rd radiator for the track days and they told me it was useless, so silly me I listened to them but I might add it in the future if I can't deal with this pressure problem. But before that anyways I need to check if my gage is accurate, by using the on board computer readings. I have not had time to do that yet. I'll report back when I have more info. Anyways, I can't have the car babied just because of the forum worries. That is why I spend a fortune in extended warranty... so that I don't have to worry about it.

Smart move on the warranty. Plan to use it

Well thats positive thinking, problem is no warranty is going to cover track/race use. I would imagine there is a disclaimer in the fine print of such use. I watched your video. There is no way that would be considered normal use. The car was not designed for that. Hurdi, why havent you weighed in on this?