33 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHRemoved Oil Pan Looking for Metal Shavings
Leading reported evidence
Inspect 3 of the filters, the stock porsche one
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
My '02 also had nothing, zilch, nada, no bits of anything when I dropped mine at 47k, and I had pulled the magnetic drain plug at each change, & inspected 3 of the filters, the stock Porsche one that was on the car when I got it, when I changed to spin on for full filtration, and 2 of the spin ons, the last the same time I pulled the pan when I installed the IMSG.
Leading evidence: 'Inspect 3 of the filters, the stock porsche one' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check brake fluid level by giving it a glance' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
My '02 also had nothing, zilch, nada, no bits of anything when I dropped mine at 47k, and I had pulled the magnetic drain plug at each change, & inspected 3 of the filters, the stock Porsche one that was on the car when I got it, when I changed to spin on for full filtration, and 2 of the spin ons, the last the same time I pulled the pan when I installed the IMSG.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Check the brake fluid level by giving it a glance when you open the front trunk.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I check the coolant level once or twice per month, same with the tire pressure.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
To my surprise after reading the doom and gloom IMS posts, it was clean, not shavings, no chunks of cam guide.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
My '02 also had nothing, zilch, nada, no bits of anything when I dropped mine at 47k, and I had pulled the magnetic drain plug at each change, & inspected 3 of the filters, the stock Porsche one that was on the car when I got it, when I changed to spin on for full filtration, and 2 of the spin ons, the last the same time I pulled the pan when I installed the IMSG.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I am sure you already know that UNLESS written documentation is available, the only OTHER way to know with certainty is to open up the engine and physcially inspect the IMSB
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
My '02 also had nothing, zilch, nada, no bits of anything when I dropped mine at 47k, and I had pulled the magnetic drain plug at each change, & inspected 3 of the filters, the stock Porsche one that was on the car when I got it, when I changed to spin on for full filtration, and 2 of the spin ons, the last the same time I pulled the pan when I installed the IMSG.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
33 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T113718Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
After reading the posts about others finding metal shavings in the oil pan, I couldnt resist and pulled mine to see. I saw no metal, nada, zip, nothing. Is this good or bad? Does it mean this engine was rebuilt? The service records are incomplete so I dont know the full history. Any ideas?
I also included a pic of the rear main area. Should I dig into the pickup and AOS's or just leave well enough alone?
I am sure you already know that UNLESS written documentation is available, the only OTHER way to know with certainty is to open up the engine and physcially inspect the IMSB
I know thats the only way to know for sure but it would suck to tear into and find it had been replaced. With 56K miles, shouldnt I have at least seen some brown bits from the chain guides?
According to the engine serial number, it is the original 2003 engine not a reman. It poses a delima because I was about ready to at least do the RMS, IMSB, clutch, and maybe chain guides but now I might wait.
If the RMS and Clutch and chain guides are not defective, why bother messing with them? That being said, chances are that your IMSB is original. Jake said somewhere recently that there are 7000 LN replacements out there. That's not a giant percentage relative to the total number of engines, thus it is more likely that your engine does NOT have one. Then again, there are many engines that have more miles than yours that are running great with the original bearing.
Maybe you should just have Jake pick the car up now and have him do a full rebuild... :-)
I change my oil every 5k miles. I check the coolant level once or twice per month, same with the tire pressure. Check the brake fluid level by giving it a glance when you open the front trunk. Keep an eye on the belt. Inspect the oil filter when you replace it. Keep the car clean, put energy into polishing at least once per month. My car gets polished every other week.
My advice is drive it enjoy it, don't beat on it, after all it's old. Do not be a paranoid Porsche 911 owner. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
You should have easily been able to tell if the oil pan had been removed before, just from the look of the sealant at the pan/block joint. My '02 also had nothing, zilch, nada, no bits of anything when I dropped mine at 47k, and I had pulled the magnetic drain plug at each change, & inspected 3 of the filters, the stock Porsche one that was on the car when I got it, when I changed to spin on for full filtration, and 2 of the spin ons, the last the same time I pulled the pan when I installed the IMSG. Never anything in any of them. I just assume I got a decent engine wear wise. Sounds good for you , too. I thought I needed a clutch soon, too, but turns all I needed was new motor mounts.
Excellent advice but in case you have not already noticed...this is the home of the paranoid 911 owners...
I still say that the moderators should put a sticky at the top of the 996 forum warning that "Reading this forum could reduce your enjoyment of your 996."
Can someone else name a car/forum where the owner, after close inspection, finds no evidence of engine wear/problems but still seriously contemplates a serious engine tear down and rebuild...ridiculous.
I took my sump off this winter, my car has 42k. To my surprise after reading the doom and gloom IMS posts, it was clean, not shavings, no chunks of cam guide.
My car is still on its original IMS and I plan to leave it that way.
Put your car back together and enjoy it, change your filter regular and check it for debris.
+1
I�m also a ferrari owner and before I registered in this forum I thought ferrari owners were paranoid (and we have real facts to be paranoid about) but oh my! After reading several posts here I feel like my 996 is going to grenade itself the moment I put the key in!
People that barely use the car, early 00 porsches with less than 70K miles... I put almost 10k miles in my ferrari last year and I have very little time to drive it for gods sake!!
Just use the car as much as you can and don�t fear about breakdowns. As I read once in a ferrari forum:
"Not putting miles into your ferrari is like not having sex with your girlfriend so that she�s virgin for her next boyfriend" (or something like that)
Apply that to your porsches
I think its just part of the experience of owning a 996. Unfortunately a replacement engine cost is over 50% of the cars total value, so it pays to prevent a meltdown if possible. If you find bearing metal or cam/lifter particles in the sump, its game over for the M96. Better safe than sorry.
Still deciding what to do from here. My opinion is everyone should at least pull the pan to look inside and get an idea of the wear going on.
does anybody has pictures of an oil sump with particle of cam/lifter ?
I thought those particles would only be visible in the oil filter ?
When I removed my oil pan I found a couple small chip of cam guide but rest was clean. I am glad I opened it up because I also was traumatized by the forum posts
lol
I did my imsb a few months ago due to finding some shavings in the filter. While I was down there I pulled my sump cover and found nothing. It was clean! I've had the car about 6 months now and feel much better with the LN bearing. I agree with some of the other posters, if you have no indications of a problem, don't sweat it.
I think it is normal not to find anything. I removed mine last year when i installed the IMS Guardian, didn't find anything and it looked like it was never taken off before. It was at 80K miles.
can you post pictures of how your oil filter looked like ?
any pictures of your IMS ?
I mean it would be nice to see how bad the IMS damage were, and how the oil filter looked like at that time. We have never seen such pics on the forum.
KSter....your sump is clean and you think something is amiss? Really? My lord....you have the biggest glass empty syndrome I have ever seen.....and just when I was starting to warm up to you
I started a thred a couple of months back on renntech forums. I'm on the road with my iPad so it's kind of hard to give you the link. I wish I saved the picture of the filter, no idea how it got deleted? I really wouldn't consider it to have had a ton of shavings but enough to freak me out. Once inside the block where the bearing lives there was considerable very fine metal particles. Almost like silver dust. The original bearing really looked pretty good. Do a search over at renntech, if you can't find it I'll link it when I get home in a few days.
It is good in that there is no sign of any debris in the oil pan/sump.
If the engine was rebuilt or even partially opened up in the past without paperwork it is hard to say.
Had an experienced tech been doing the work instead of you he might have been able to spot signs the engine has been worked on in the past.
In some cases bolts/fasteners are marked with special paint and if this paint has been disturbed (by the use of a wrench) the tech obviously can tell the fasteners have been touched since the car left the factory.
Beyond that there is enough variability of the engine's appearance from the factory that the opinion of the tech based on the engine's appearance and what he sees as he removes hardware may be inconclusive.
Unfortunately even though you found nothing scary this does not mean there is no chance of something going wrong in the future.
Now I'm not trying to fan any flames I'm just saying all cars start out with zero problems but over time every car will develop problems. Most are not serious. A few, I believe very few, unfortunately develop more serious problems.
The simple fact the oil sump is clear even the filter element is clean is no guarantee this will always be the case.
What should you do then? Nothing. Well, nothing after button that engine back up. Afterwards, enjoy the car.
Oh those black pots are not AOSs but oil swirl or oil defoaming pots. Oil is pumped in and the shape of the pot has deaerated oil flowing out the bottom while air (still mixed with a goodly amount of oil vapor) flows out the other way.
Unless you can see some physical problem -- like a crack -- there is no reason to replace these. They do not have any moving parts and have no scheduled replacement schedule.
What you should look at is the baffles. I have heard that sometimes these can degrade. Infrequent oil changes can result in the acids in the oil attacking this material, at least those cars with the rubber baffle flaps.
If these are degraded to the point they are not able to perform their very critical function of helping to keep the oil pump intake at all times as deep in defoamed oil as possible under severe driving conditions (high speed cornering and braking such as would the case most often on the track) the engine oil pump might pull in a bit of oil with more than a tolerable amount of air in it.
Those swirl pots may not under all circumstances remove all air from the oil. The reasons are varied but one is from running oil too long that gets too contaminated with water/unburned fuel and is thus more prone to foaming. (As an aside when venturing away from an approved oil one risks running an oil that entrains more air and for which these pots are less likely to remove as effectively...)
Mac,
Thank you for your reply. I am familiar with tool marks on fasteners and looking for deviation from factory installed part vs. changed or altered, because thats something I received training in. I saw no tool marks on the oil pan bolts.
I assumed the "swirl pots" were part of the AOS system and they are referred to as AOS on Pelican, so sorry for the confusion. I am referring to the item(s) marked as 4. Do they become inefficient with age/miles and need to be replaced as well as the top side AOS part or baffle?
Pelican:
Air Oil Separator (Inside Oil Sump of Engine, 2 per car), 996 Carrera/Carrera S (1999-04), each
Model: 996 (1999-2005)
Category: Engine Lubrication
Description: Oil separator
Quantity Required: 2 view diagram...
Hope that helps. These are not expensive but dont recommend replacement, right?
Pan baffles looked fine.
that part should be good for the life of the car.... dont be so paranoid. BTW, maybe you should consider an x51 pan... it is more efficient holding more oil in the baffled where the oil pickups are located. Its nice knowing you have it, especially at the track.
What Ferdinand said...that part, those two parts should be good for the life of the car.
They are only accessible with the oil pan removed and that is not something scheduled ever.
AFAIK, They have no moving parts.
The only time they would be replaced is if upon opening up the engine something was spotted like a cracked housing or mounted flange, something physical was wrong.
If you replace one or both with no reason other than you are "there" you create a slight increase in something going amiss because you are putting in a new part. The new part could prove to be defective (primarily arising from stresses causing the part/housing to crack) and you have to deal with this again.
If it ain't broke don't fix it. Always a good motto to keep in mind when working on one's car.
Oh, about those items being labeled air oil separator. They are that. Sure.
They are I guess a better descriptive term or phrase would be the primary AOSs. They are responsible for dealing with the very aerated but still quite voluminous air/oil blend produced by the scavenge pumps.
The bulk of the oil in this frothed up mixture of oil and air is separated from its load of air and the resulting mostly oil is routed to the oil sump.
The air with a goodly amount of oil vapor in it is returned to the crankcases.
The secondary AOS -- the one we all know and love, NOT! -- is responsible for removing the last dregs of oil vapor from crankcase fumes before these fumes are then routed to the intake and ultimately burned in the engine.
The secondary AOS has problems, can have problems because it has moving parts to deal with the varying vacuum/pressure conditions inside the intake manifold and the crankcase and these can wear out (fail due to material fatigue) over time.
