Negotiation with dealer

I've just sold my 86 911 and I'm looking to buy a 2003 Coupe from a Porsche dealer in the MidWest. It's a Porsche Certified Pre-Owned vehicle listed at $59,888. I drove it yesterday together with a new M3 and if I can get a decent price I'm going to go for the 911. My question is for a car listed at $59,888 what do you think I should start negotiations at and how much would you think I am likely to get it for. Thanks Ed

Wow! $60K seems REALLY high. Considering, you can get into a brand new 06 997 for just 10K more. Maybe some of the guys that have bought recently can help out?

The car does include a number of options: hi fi sound, PSM, 18" wheels, xenon lights, power seats so for a new 997 equivalent it would come out to mid to high 70's.

My primary question is not so much on the price but rather how much under what dealers are asking have people been able to get their cars for. Thanks Ed

Most of what you reported just now is standard on a 997. Besides, options don't influence the pirce of the car that much. Some, but not substantial on a used car. My guess would be in the low 50s (50-55) for that car.

How does the asking price compare with similar vehicles? I have the feeling you haven't done enough research to know the market. Let this one go, and start charting prices for a few months.

ebay is a good price to start with

In my area the asking price for CPO '03s in decent condition is around $60K. I have no idea what the actual selling price is. If I were you, I'd offer them $54K and go no higher than $56K. Good luck.

Happened to be browsing the dealers website today and they just dropped the price by 2k to $57,888. Ed

I think dealers alwsays mark up a good 5k above what the market commands. You should be able to get a good 996 03 at 51-52k if it's around 20k mi. Add $2-3k for warranty. The thought of asking $5-7k less than asking may not be comfortable for you. However, keep in mind that that's what the market is and if dealer won't budge, buy 3rd party instead.

Thanks for the input djantlive. I have no problems asking $5 to $7k less than is being asked. Will be making my offer today and am more than happy to walk if I cant get it for the price I want to pay (also looking at a new M3 as my second choice which I would keep for 2 years then buy a used 997).

I'd negotiate over the phone. This way, you don't waste a few hours in their showroom. That's a typical tactic for car sales. After 2-3 hrs of negotiation and waiting, you feel like you should buy the car or else look stupid walking away with nothing. On the phone, they call you back and if the price can't be agreed upon, you just tell them you'll keep looking. They'll call you back w a better price.

in case if they don't want to talke about price over the phone, ask them if the price is firm. also, check carfax.com, you will find lot of information about the car. even how long the dealer has it for sale!

I must have missed alot of info. What color, milage, condition etc... Low-mid 50's isn't bad if it is a great color and great condition.

It is getting close to winter and 996's are not strong winter cars. I would suspect that you could take a fair bit off the price. Also, post some specifics like miles and color (is it lime green???)

I just recently got back into a '99 911. I had a Boxster to trade. The difference in total cash price between 2 dealers about an hour apart was $13,000. Starting price on two very similar certified 911's, was about $5,000 and the cash difference in the trade was $8,000. I am sure I could have worked the more expensive dealer a bit, but when they start that far apart, you have to wonder. Basic difference was one dealer in a high priced neighborhood with expensive showroom and not hungry, the other was very hungry and didn't have all the overhead. It pays to shop.

So here's the latest. They would not move at all on the price apart from throwing in the Porsche child seat. I offered them 4k less so walked and bought a new BMW M3 over the street which was my second choice for 6k under list. This will keep me going for 18 months to 2 years by which time I'll be ready to buy a 997. Thanks for all the input.

Welshed: Not bad... M3's are nice! You've got the right mindset to be successful in future negotiations (and I mean ALL negotiations, not just cars). Having a plan B makes the process that much easier and effective for you, and sometimes makes plan A happen as well. In my case when I bought my first Porsche last year after waiting 30 yrs to make it happen. I was in no rush, to buy one, so my plan B was I've waited this long for one - I can wait a couple more years if I need to. And with such mindset, I was able to get about $20K off MSRP on a brand new 996 - my plan A. Mind you things were also working in my favor with the introduction of the 997. But after negotiations in 4 different dealerships, I was successful in 1 of them. Never take no for an answer!

Congrats on the M3, great value and performance. Enjoy the new car. Your Porsche dealer is smoking crack for not moving on the price. Some salesperson are idiots for pricing their cars sky high and not leaving room for negotiation.

Check NADA and as gas goes up,Year comes to and end temp goes down so will the price. Also end of the month is the time to press !

The dealer was only smoking crack if they never sell the car (and Im sure they'll sell it). I see a continual disconnect from reality on the forums. The forums insist the 996 has no market and that the car is "max" $5-$8k less than what every dealer/private seller seems to be charging. Then you hear stories like this where sellers dont budge and the reaction is usually that the seller is delusional. Meanwhile, the cars are selling. If they werent selling, the sellers WOULD move. NO salesperson is "stupid" when it comes to this. They live by comission. It's also interesting that I was also cross shopping an M3 when I bought my 911. The dealer budged VERY little on my 911 yet the BMW dealers were willing to move a LOT on the M3. I decided to not settle and bought the 911 anyhow since it was what I really wanted. I've got to wonder just how bad the 996 market is when legit dealers arent willing to deeply discount clean, honest cars. I think a lot of the bottom barrel prices that drive the perceived "average" are coming from cars with a history that have been cleaned up. The 996 ran a good 7 model years. The wrecked/resurrected scrubbed title junkers are starting to circulate and pollute the market. Lots of people will buy these examples for a "steal" and think they are PERFECT and then wonder the first time someone brings up that they think the car was in an accident or had paintwork. I used to see this a LOT with the NSX. It started to seem like 50% of them had been totaled at one point.

996 is from 99-04. That's 5 yrs, not 7. Dealer price is higher and that's why their cars sit for 2-3 months on average. If they still can't move it, they usually auction it off if they run out of floor plan. Use car is very profitable as dealers get lease returns and trade-in a lot. Their prices are significantly higher than 3rd party prices even if the car isn't certified. With most buyers, they feel safer buying from a dealer than some stranger. Unfortunately, they also pay for that. Dealer cars are often detailed and cleaned up (no dings, scratches) before putting on for sale. Therefore, their prices are higher too. I've bought 2 used cars - one from dealer and one from private party. If you get a good PPI and do some research, you can avoid cars w history. It doesn't matter whether it's from dealer or private party. Dealers get their used inventory from people which don't disclose history of the car either.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 996 is from 99-04. That's 5 yrs, not 7. It's actually six: 1999 to 2004 and I guess you could consider 7 since you could buy a 996 in 1998.

Actually, the 996 era is '98 to '05 (TTs, etc.) Buying a new M3 now with the new and impoved model coming up next year is insane......you can almost hear the value dropping Since they have changed virtually nothing on the car since introduction, a low miles '02-'03 makes much more sense.

Wow, didnt realize I was going to cause so many varied comments. Buying a new M3 at list price would not be a good deal but buying one at 5.5k under list seems like an ok deal to me. If you look on Edmunds at True Cost to Own a 2003 911 comes out very similar to a new M3. Also, let's make sure we get the facts correct. The new M3 will not be on sale until 2007 and will likely be priced quite a bit higher than the outgoing model. 4 years included service with the option to extend it to 6 years for $1200 is also beneficial.

Fair enough, nice car. I'm just gun shy after the massive depreciation from my last new BMW.....ouch