996 C4S Issuesssssssss

Hello all, I have been surfing this site for some time now doing as much research as possible on the Porsche brand. I love the Porsche brand, culture as well as the cars. Unfortunately my experience in owning one has been less than enjoyable in the last 8 months. I purchased an '03 996 C4S tiptronic with 60k miles in August of last year. Prior to purchasing, I did a carfax and discovered it was owned by 1 owner, was routinely serviced at a Porsche dealership when it was needed. Everything checked out great with the car so I purchased it. 2 and a half months later, while stopped at a light, the engine went completely dead on me. Tried restarting the car and there was nothing. Had the car towed to a local shop that deals with Porsche's, Ferrari's, etc and they determined the engine had gone bad. Somehow antifreeze got into the cylinder head and waterlogged the engine causing it to seize. I wasn't convinced and had it towed to another reputable shop who also determined the same. As you can imagine, this was a blow to me. I was forced to purchase a new engine. The shop was able to negotiate a used 997 C4S engine for me. They did the installation and all was well for about a week until things just started going bad again. The first issue was an axle bolt that came loose somehow. I had the car towed back to the shop. They fixed the issue and returned the car back to me. Once again, car was well for about 4 days. I was driving when I lost complete power to the gears. Car was still on but there was no power going to the wheels. While in drive mode, the RPM climbed while on the gas but there was no power at all to the wheels. Once again, I had the car towed back to the shop and they determined the linkage cable had somehow got loose. Received the car back after 2 weeks. The same evening of me picking up the car, the same thing happened to me again where the car lost power in drive and I was forced to coast to the side of the road and wait yet again for a tow truck. Car has been at the shop for the last 2 weeks and they couldn't figure out what was going on with the car. They checked all the wiring, software etc and couldn't figure out what was going on so they sent it to another shop that has more equipment to diagnose the car. They too have done a thorough diagnosis of the software and have come to the conclusion that the transmission has gone bad. I have been experiencing my own March madness as I recently had to have my BMW's transmission rebuilt. In my research, I have not come across any 996 C4S transmission's that have just suddenly gone bad without warning. I had warning at least from my BMW and had a feeling it was ailing. As of now, the car turns on, the gears change on the dash when moved up or down but the car does not move. I am worn out from this entire experience and I find myself at a serious crossroad in the direction I should take. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long rant but I need a forum to just vent and this seems to be a forum for just that. Thanks

Did you have a Pre Purchase Inspection done? Where are you located?

Yes I had a Pre Purchase Inspection done by the Porsche dealership and everything checked out which is why I went ahead and purchased the car. Located in Long Island, NY

I am sorry about your bad experiences and you are certainly entitled to the long rant. It seems like a couple of your issues were related to the engine replacement itself in which some items were not completed properly - loose axle bolt, then loose linkage cable? I would stop going to third party shops, and try either a dealer that has high 911 repair volume and thus deeper diagnostic experience or someone who has extensive 996 Porsche experience to get things right. As you said, it seems like a transmission, would show some signs prior to failure. Also, in reading these boards, TIP failures are very rarely reported - in two years of reading many posts I don't recall a single example. Hopefully, your transmission is fine, and the real cause is something else that has not been properly diagnosed. I hope that is the case, John

Best of luck with your car's issues. I think each of us on this forum fear that our car will at some point and time cost enough or have enough problems that we may feel the same way. I hope that once you get through these issues you are able to enjoy your car as you did before.

thats is a really horrible story i ever heard so far in this forum regarding a 996 C4S, especially after you have the PPI done with good results. sorry to hear that buddy, good luck.

Sorry to hear about your trouble.

Page 3-11 and around there in the service manual has info that might help you track down connectors and such to check. I'd be highly questionable of the mechanics that are fooled by the problem. I hope it isn't a major problem and just a mechanic not knowing what to check. I am always remembering all the times I have seen flood damaged vehicles and wonder who takes the damage later buying them.

sorry to hear your problems. something went wrong with the engine replacement. check out those porsche shops http://www.metronypca.org/advertisers.html good luck

I am really sorry to hear this. I've always like the C4S but wondering why would the shop put in a 997 engine instead? I would have think this is how it caused the issues?

That is a truly sucky story. You have a right to complain, a lot!!

Hopefully the shops that worked on your Porsche will stand behind their past repairs and engine replacement. Otherwise it's time to seek out a better Porsche mechanic/shop as mentioned. GL

I seriously doubt the tip is just ruined. What about a torque converter? electronics? Did the indy have to change all the wiring harnesses and ecu for a 997 engine?

Thank you all for your well wishes and suggestions. @jsmirand -- The shops I went to are well known in this area for tuning Porsche's. I did extensive research before taking my car there. Not to mention a few of my friends with Porsche's have taken their cars there. The issues do seem to stem from the engine replacement. I am hoping the transmission is in good shape and it's something minor they have overlooked. @Bozbomber -- They had access to a 997 engine and so I figured since I'm spending the same amount of money anyway, I might as well put in a 3.8. It would be faster, the performance would be better and I wouldn't have to worry later on about any major engine issues. They assured me everything would bolt up minus a few hoses like the brake lines and other hoses that would change as well as a new ECU. They had done this type of modification in the past and was pretty simple to do. @Barn996 -- At this point, the shops are saying they have done everything right in terms of the transplant and they never touched the transmission. They are trying to remove themselves from any responsibility in the matter. I personally think whatever the problem is now, is a chain reaction of things that happened prior. Like the axle bolt coming loose and ending up on the floor, the shifter cable disconnecting etc. @soverystout -- I am really hoping the problem is not the tip. Checked pricing on a rebuilt transmission from Porsche and I'm looking at $9k and $1300 for the core charge plus another $2k in labor. I can't handle that right now. Getting this Porsche was supposed to be a great thing and it has turned into a nightmare.

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Yes the indy did have to change some wiring harnesses and ecu to fit the 997 engine. Everything seemed to work fine at first. Started up, no faults, all the gears changed and then the problems started about a week later first with the axle bolt and then the linkage cable and then now they claim it could be the torque converter.

You have Rick at Deman motorsports look at it?

Sorry to hear this. I think you have a compound problems I think your original problem was a problem, I think the PO knew of this issue and this is why the car was sold. I think the people you had do the work has caused the rest of your issues. Man that sucks

Sorry to hear about your troubles.... I've performed many of these swaps, maybe I can help get it sorted out... Give a ring and lets talk about the issues.. Thanks

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It really saddens me to hear this again. 3rd time now in a few months. It's like getting that date with the hot chic in the office then when you get her pants off you find out she has a weener bigger than yours. Hey you wanna hear what your wife could say to make you happy and sad all at the same time? "out of all your friends, you have the biggest weenie" Hey, Just trying to get a smile out of you regarding a bad start. Take a break, regroup. Stay on this board and we will get you straighened out and in touch with the right people. Where are you located? You just had a run of bad luck. Dont give up yet.

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Voice of experience??

I hope the shop's ability to diagnose the original problem was better than their ability to work on the car. It would be a shame to have the entire sequence start with a poor (or deceitful) diagnosis, which cascaded into everything else.

nothing we can say but, "that sucks" sorry about that

I really appreciate everyone's input about my situation. It really is a sad situation but such is life. I am going to deal with it the best way I can and keep you all updated on my status. @Rick DeMan -- I will take you up on your offer and give you a ring. I look forward to speaking with you. @The Hoff -- Thanks for the laughs. I needed that. @ivangene -- It really does suck. Things could be worse so I am keeping an optimistic attitude.

What sites do you guys recommend where I can buy OEM parts?

SunSet Porsche or SunCoast Porsche, which ever is closer to your home

GL my friend, that is a streak of some bad luck - wouldn't wish that on anyone. please keep us posted on the outcome, etc.

PPI are really a joke. they don't even pressure test the coolant system unless there is a leak. After my inspection, the mechanic said everything was fine, driving and all. After that I took the car for a test drive and the car obviously needed tire balancing and alignment, Steering shaking and steering at speed. Coolant level was under minimum, oil level was above max !!!! Pffu, you can't trust PPI.

Here is the update on the car. All the symptoms of the car are pointing to the transmission. It is being taken apart now to see what exactly has gone bad. String of bad luck indeed. I just hope after all of this is said and done, I can finally enjoy the car in peace.

Hopefully your story will have a good ending soon. It sucks when you buy a car and then you start to have issues. On the bright side, once the car is given a thorough once over it should be good to go for some time.

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It depends entirely on who does the PPI, and whether they use a comprehensive checklist etc. I've had thorough PPIs done, as well as one that was a joke where they didn't even spot a large bubble growing out of a tire sidewall.

So the latest on this saga is this: Had a transmission specialist look into it and their professional opinion about what could have happened was this: The shop that did the initial engine transplant could have possibly made a slight error when installing the transmission to the engine. Supposedly the unit that goes over the torque converter to lock it into place somehow was damaged. I will send pictures shortly. As a result, the torque converter was damaged. These are the items that I am being told have to be replaced. Torque converter, pump assembly, input K1 clutch, front pump seal, filter & gasket and an overhaul kit. The price I have been given is $6K. My question to you all is, does this make sense? In your opinion, is the original shop at fault? How can I prove they were negligible and could have caused this? Do I have a case to take them to court? At this point the original shop are denying any wrongdoing and claim they did everything properly despite the fact the car went back to them 3 times for an Axle bolt coming loose, a linkage cable not connected and the last time which they told me was the transmission and claim they never touched the transmission. I am no mechanic and this is not my field of expertise but it would make sense to me that they would have to at some point come into contact with the transmission in order to connect to the engine correct? This whole situation has been very stressful to say the least. What are your opinions?

The transmission shop should be able to look at the torque converter and pump to tell you if the install was bad. I don't know the exact procedure for the MB unit in your 4S, but if you do not seat the converter to the pump and use the locking tool on the ZF units, you will destroy the pump and converter. I know of a couple of cases where this has happened to folks with ZF units. The crank also must be locked at a specific location. Based on your description, this could have happened. It does look like the converter has some scoring on the face of the hub at the 5 o'clock position, but it is hard to tell from the photo. Query your current shop concerning this and have them look at the engagement area on the pump as well. Other things that can go wrong on the ZF install is 1) Confusing the vacuum lines to the switch valve will result in overheating fluid temps and 2) incorrect filling procedures which will also destroy the tranny in short order. I It would be very difficult to speculate on the exact cause without personally inspecting the parts involved. I think your current shop would be in the best position to give you a complete picture of why the MB unit failed. Ask them to carefully document their findings along with supporting detailed photographs.

For death blows a court time would be nice. If you could get the cost on their insurance company then it would force them to pay attention very much to making good by you. Most company's operate off of what the insurance company allows or doesn't allow. Yah I'd say the engine swappers fouled up the trans. With documentation of the trail of errored install problems it should stand out that they screwed up having an unfit mechanic do the job. The PPI should say the car didn't have most of the problems till somebody wrenched in there. I don't like the lawyer games but most prefer the game for financial rewards and righting the problem. I think the bill is past small claims. With a lawyer involved there is going to be initial costs to you but I'm sure the lawyer will try to settle you down with going for damage awards for you. Of course he gets a cut of that too.

Here's the best advice you'll get.. RUN RUN RUN AWAY FROM THAT SHOP AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!! Axel bolts only come loose when there not torqued. shift linkages only come loose when there not installed properly or removed improperly. The mechanic working on your car is the problem first and foremost, you need to find a reputable shop to fix the damage they have caused..

What StephenB said. Have the current shop document was found. Take pics. Lots of pics. Then consider small claims court. When you take your car to an automotive repair shop for work -- as long as the shop advertises itself to be capable of servicing your car -- this shop owes you reasonable skill and care and experience in servicing your vehicle. You did not receive that, your vehicle did not receive that. This then violates the business agreement you had with the shop and you are entitled to some compensation. Ideally the cost of undoing or correcting the damage the 1st shop did to the car, to the tranmission. You'll have to research small claims court rules/regulations in your state to see just what you can ask for. There is also the possibility you can file a consumer fraud complaint against the 1st shop. Research consumer fraud in your state. The county has a consumer fraud division and if it like here there people there who are willing to advise you and help you file a complaint if one justified and I think -- not a lawyer though -- it is. Sincerely, Macster.