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YOUR RESEARCHHelmet Needed
Reported or suspected cause
failure of his helmet
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Reported cause
According to the Snell Memorial Foundation, his death was due to the failure of his helmet to protect him.
Leading evidence: 'failure of his helmet' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'failure of his helmet' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check rules' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Replace every five years, and many racing sanctions adhere
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Snell recommends that helmets be replaced every five years, and many racing sanctions adhere to this philosophy as well."
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But, I was unable to find any used helmets after hours/days of searching.
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Suggestion
If you are going to be wearing a head sock, test fit the helmet while wearing the head sock, it likely won't make a difference in helmets that are in XS/S/M/L/XL type sizes, but can in Helmets that use hat sizing instead (since the differences between each size is a lot smaller).
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Suggestion
And you cannot make the statement that it will burn after less (or ever state that it deals with fire suppression) exposure since the testing isn't mandated.
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I am going to sign up for my first Drivers Ed and am in need of a helmet... not sure if I will continue to do DE's, so would prefer not to pay a couple of hundred bucks at this stage.
Any recommendations re renting one in the Charlotte area, or a cheaper alternative than buying a new one? Thx.
Check with the track you are going to and the organization you are running with. Some rent out helmets for cheap. Our local track rents helmets for $10.00 a day (and racing suits for $20).
-td
Snell M2005 helmets start at about $100 and are fine for autocross, but not for DE. You'll need a Snell SA2005 (or SA2000) helmet for DE. Which track are you going to, can it be open-face or must it be full-face?
Are you in PCA, SCCA or any other car clubs that frequently do HDPEs? Have you asked your local club if anyone has a helmet in your size they'd be willing to loan you for the weekend?
Edit: I should qualify this with "usually" I suppose- every track/event seems to be different! Club loaners vary, too- the clubs around here have helmets so clean, you'd think you're the first person to have ever worn in. I wore a loaner pretty much all season because there was no incentive to buy my own!
If you're planning to do the PCA Zone 2 DE at VIR in March, SA2000 or later is required.
http://zone2.pca.org/drivered.htm
wierd, I just checked our rules:
"A helmet minimum standard of Snell Memorial Foundation 2000 or later is required; M or SA rating is acceptable. SA is recommended for increased fire protection. A limited supply of loaner helmets will be available for a fee."
This is for DE
... are you sure they require SA2005?
Just my 2 cents - I tried the same route, Dutchie. But, I was unable to find any used helmets after hours/days of searching. The guys in my group of Porsche friends who are experienced with DEs reminded me that a full-face helmet usually has some history of sweat and breath, which didn't appeal to me. So, for $250, I was willing to bite the bullet and buy my own for my first DE. After the fact, I was very glad that I did.
I bought a full-face, flat black helmet from Apex for $250 and a pair of driving gloves. Both were great. Another piece of advice from my Porsche friends - Don't skimp on your head.
Bob
Depends on the PCA chapter, but mine is okay with M2000. Some guys have gone to bike shops and rented M2000 or M2005 for about $15 a day. Don't spend the big bucks on a helmet if you're only going to try a DE once.
He's in Charlotte NC so I assumed he was talking about the upcoming DE at VIR, which requires an SA2000 or newer helmet for DEs. Honestly, I always thought the "fire resistant" requirement was a bit silly, considering nomex suits and face shields aren't required, and an M2005 or K2005 helmet burning through is probably not an appreciable added risk. But SA helmets ARE built to different requirements than M helmets (SA withstand multiple impacts as your brain bucket bounces off every piece of metal in the car, for example, while M are rated only for a single large impact), so it's not unreasonable to require one for a DE where the risk of a high-speed rollover accident is elevated.
http://zone2.pca.org/drivered.htm
For autocross, seatbelts, airbags and slow speeds seems to make helmets completely superfluous, so any decent helmet is sufficient.
This is the deal, for the PCA Carolinas Region the following helmet is required for DE:
All drivers are required to have a SNELL SA2000, SNELL M2000, SNELL SA2005 or SNELL M2005 approved helmet
They basically require the most current certification (Year 2005) and one earlier (Year 2000). This means that in 2010 when Snell comes out with their 2010 standard, they will not allow the 2000 anymore. Hence, I should at least get a helmet that is 2005, so that I can get 6 years out of it (assuming I will buy one versus borrow).
I am hoping to do the late feb DE at Carolina Motorsports Park.
I have NEVER heard of my region (Carolinas) allowing a motorcycle helmet for an event. I am going to talk to our DE chair and CDI to verify. If that's the case it needs to be changed ASAP! A moto helmet offer a completely different level of protection than one for cars.
**yes I realize that it is in the acceptance packet**
Dell,
I went to the Carolina's Region Winter Track Seminar at CMP yesterday and there were some detailed questions re helmets and Brian Powell (DE Chair) and Marty Barrett (Chief Instructor) both confirmed that M2000 and M2005 helmets were allowed.
I'm a first timer at DE, but given your reaction, it sounds like you would definitely recommend getting the SA type helmet? Any recommendatios on where to get one? I want the best protection for my head (I only have one of them), but not sure how often I will use the helmet after this DE weekend (will I catch the bug?).
M & SA deal with fire protection. In a stock car, you should be more than fine with a M rated helmet. To summarize what the two ratings are, the M rating is for motorcycles where SA is geared for racecars. Basically the M rated helmet will burn or melt after less exposure to heat than the SA. If you plan on racing w2w, then you'll need and SA helmet. There's more to what helmet is safer than just SNELL ratings. Do some research on
www.SMF.org
and other sites. In the beginning, I'd suggest that a basic M rated helmet that fits well and you've prepped your car (brake fluid) and learned as much as possible be safer than just spending money on a SA rated helmet.
edit: I didn't come onto this site for this reason but did write a resource for people just like yourself (and once me too)
www.GoAheadTakeTheWheel.com
. Since I'm a negative profit effort, thought it wouldn't be too bad to post it. <sigh>
Dave Gran
Depends on the glasses. I was able to wear sunglasses with my helmet. If you have a big head like mine, the fit is snug and means you have to carefully wedge them into their place.
Dave,
No, fire suppression is NOT the only reason. And you cannot make the statement that it will burn after less (or ever state that it deals with fire suppression) exposure since the testing isn't mandated. The MAIN differences between the two are that the M designation is NOT subjected to fire suppression testing or rollbar impact testing.
I talked to Brian last night (our DE chair) and sure enough, M rated helmets are permitted. With that said, it all comes down to risk you are willing to take on the track. Do the research and if you still feel that a M rated helmet is the level of risk you are comfortable with, then go that way. If we were closer (or if I was able to make it to the event) I would have just let you use one of my helmets. If you are in the Raleigh area before the event, let me know and you can swing by the house and pick one up.
Dell,
That is very kind of you!
One of your earlier message made reference to the different rollover testing for M versus SA rated helmets. Are SA helmets 'stronger'. Since I have a cab, this may be important.... Less roof to protect me!
I wouldn't say that one helmet or the other is "stronger" than the other but rather BUILT and ENGINEERED for a specific application. The moto helmet is engineered for an entirely different type of protection.
If the car was absolutely stock (no harnesses, no race seats, no rollbar/cage) then I think the M rated helmet is acceptable but still not appropriate. Once again, it all comes down to the level of risk you want to take with your safety. It's not up to me or anybody else to tell you what decision you should as this is a decision that should NEVER be make irrationally. We're not exactly talking about playing 9 holes at the local muni, but rather a sport where the danger is real and life-threatening when things can go wrong.
I never said it was the only reason.
Dutchie, not sure how but I had previously given you the wrong URL for the SNELL Foundation. It's
www.SMF.org
. Lots of information for you there...
Here's a bit more information on the whole Snell Ratings, but again, take a look at their website. If you decide to do more DEs, it would also be worthwhile looking into head & neck restraint systems. ISAAC and HANS are two of the big players - I personally am a big ISAAC fan.
"William Snell was an amateur automobile racer who passed away in 1956 during a racing accident. According to the Snell Memorial Foundation, his death was due to the failure of his helmet to protect him. In memory of William Snell, the Snell Memorial Foundation was formed to improve helmet design and capabilities, as well as to provide users a way to ensure helmets meet specific safety standards. Each year Snell tests and destroys thousands of helmets during the certification process. The two common Snell certifications are SA and M. The SA certification is directed toward auto racing safety concerns while the M certification is for motorcycle helmet safety. The SA certification requires flammability and roll bar impact tests, while the M certification does not. Helmets with an M certification do have a wider visual field than SA. For helmets that have either of these Snell certifications, a label is affixed somewhere on the inside of the helmet. On some helmets, it can require that you check under the padding flaps that can easily be moved or on the chinstrap. A word of warning: Just because a helmet has a sticker on the back of the helmet with a Snell rating does not mean it is truly certified. Look for the official Snell rating sticker with the associated year’s rating. When buying a new helmet, learn what is the most recent Snell certification date available. Some companies will sell a Snell-rated helmet that just became outdated by a newer certification, or is very soon to become outdated. Snell recommends that helmets be replaced every five years, and many racing sanctions adhere to this philosophy as well."
Most clubs that I've seen allow you to use a M rated helmet for HPDEs. I used one for years, heck the only reason I use a SA helmet now because I needed one for W2W. I still don't wear my suit, gloves, shoes, head sock, socks, etc for HPDEs...
That's not to say that you shouldn't, I'm just too lazy to put on all the gear to drive a street car at 8/10ths.
If you do borrow a helmet, make sure it fits. Proper fit is more important than the M/SA difference. A poor fitting SA helmet will protect you less than a proper fitting M helmet is most collisions... especially in the case of a too large helmet that could leave your head....
I've sent 2 friends to OG Racing in the past for rentals and both were happy with the helmet & service. Think it was $35 for 10 days.
http://ogracing.blogspot.com/2008/08...t-rentals.html
My approach was to buy an ARAI full faced helmet on sale, use it a couple times and re-sell it for a net loss of only a few bucks and some time. I would have a new helmet to wear. This only works on high end helmets as getting money out of low end stuff doesnt normaly work...
This plan went well till I descided to keep the helmet and use it more ! ! ! LOL
make sure you TRY the helmet on before purchasing. Different brands have different fitments. Since I have a huge head, I find Simpson helmets to fit me more comfortable.
If you wear glasses, that is also a consideration as motor racing helmets have smaller eyeports (full face)
Bell and Simpson both fit me well enough, the few Arai's I've tried haven't been that great although I couldn't find any of their SA helmets to try on. HJC never seem to fit right to me either.
If you are going to be wearing a head sock, test fit the helmet while wearing the head sock, it likely won't make a difference in helmets that are in XS/S/M/L/XL type sizes, but can in Helmets that use hat sizing instead (since the differences between each size is a lot smaller).
Make sure you attach the chin strap and tighten it correctly, then make sure that the helmet fits, won't come off, isn't too loose, etc.
Even with the chin strap attached, I can yank a XL HJC off my head, obviously not a good thing if I were to get in a wreck with it on.
I'm currently using a Bell M4 Pro, and would suggest the M4/M4 Pro for anyone that wears glasses (it has a big eyeport) if the Bell helmets fit you.
Also, if you plan on using a head and neck restraint system it can be easier to have the manufacturer of the helmet install the attachment points for you, for HANS attachments some manufacturers already include them as a standard option (some may even be included by default now.. not sure).
Ok, after reading all the posts, and browsing the web for a couple of days... I decided to buy a helmet. Dell's advice and insight was very helpful and made me put things in perspective... I am spending money to drive a $100K car around a track, I am buying new tires and flushing the brakes, but should I go cheap on protecting my head...?? Would be a clear cut case of penny wise and pound foolish!!!
Hence I decided to buy the right helmet and get an SA certified versus the M certified.
At the winter track seminar I did last weekend, someone told me to drive up to Mooresville (20 miles North of Charlotte) and go to the Simpson race shop. I did that this evening and bought a Simpson Voyager helmet... normally $379, but got it for $200. Snell SA2005 rated and a special custom paint... silver/grey metallic, just like my car!
Thanks again to all and especially Dell.
If you are looking for a helmet, I have a white Arai GP5W in size large and SA rated that I am selling. I have worn the helmet just once and is in new condition. I purchased it for over $950 and will sell it for $500.
Thanks
Smart move Dutchie. Enjoy your DE, and your safety. I hope that after your first DE that you will decide that buying a good helmet was the best thing, since you'll want to use it more and more.
