Next Handling Upgrade?

Just wanted to solicit this group's opinion on which suspension components to upgrade next. I have a 996 C2 that is a second car and primarily used for weekend drives, occasionally to/from work and DE track days. Current configuration: - Bilstein PSS9 - 18" BBS RS-GT - Performance alignment Next: - Anti-roll bars: H&R? Any others? - Solid end links? - What else? I would like to keep the car fairly streetable and somewhere in the middle of the mild to wild spectrum. Currently, I am pleased with the PSS9's, but they actually rebound a bit more than I had hoped. From other postings, I have a hunch it's due to being lowered too much for their effectiveness. At any rate, what else should I be considering? Many thanks in advance.

definetly sway bars.....

If sways, then which ones? Are the H&R's a good compliment to the PSS9's or should I consider the GT3 sways?

GT3 sways and adjustable droplinks B&M short shift

Yup...sways are next. What's the car's primary use. For a street car I'd lean towards the H&R's. You can use them with the stock drop links which eliminates the possibility of noises creaping up. If you've ever had a car with heim joint's on the sway bars you know it's not a matter of if they'll make noise it's when. The downside to the H&R bars is they're solid and heavy. Solid doesn't necessarily mean more ridig than hollow, just heavier. If you've ever held a H&R bar vs. a GT3 bar the difference is weight is drastic. Andy

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How low did you go? I'm sure you read this elsewhere, but the PSS9s have a small window of opportunity before you start hitting the internal bump stops. GT3 ARBs are more expensive than HR, especially when you add in the extra drop links the front GT3 bar needs. Call Ira at Tarett engineering if you want to have the latest setup for GT3 front bars. Also, he might have blade adjustable sways now (IIRC he has been working on them for a while). A couple other bits you can get that won't harshen up the ride too much: GT3 lower control arms will allow more negative camber and a wider track. Upper monoball mounts will allow more camber as well. -td

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Agreed 100%....go for H&R.......i have them and the ride is more crisp,precise...u cant go wrong

Got it fellas - many thanks. Next steps... - Raising the Bilstein's (they're currently at the lowest level and are always hitting the bump stops) - H&R sways - Re-alignment

Dedicated wheels and tires for track.

First off - apologies - I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread!!! Just trying to be efficient! Okay - timing is right for my question... I just installed PSS9's - wanted to wait on sways to see how the handling changed with the new coilovers. I've overdone suspension mods on a street car before so I'm a little shy of going "too far." I'm doing about 5-6 DEs and a few AutoXs a year - so I'd say I don't want to sacrifice street comfort to the point where I can't get my wife in the car with me for a 2 hour road trip - anyone else feeling my pain??? Seriously - the PSS9's and a set of dedicated track wheels are done, and I'm running about 1.5 neg camber in front and about 2.1 neg rear. The car feels way, way better than it did on stock US spec suspension... Sways are next for me but I'm concerned about any comfort sacrifices. Most will say "you can't tell a difference in ride" - but everything is a tradeoff.... Fact is that the car feels very neutral now, I'm pleased with the balance and the slight amount of roll is really not objectionable to me. Can someone give me a logical, technical explanation of the benefits of going to H&Rs or GT3s for DEs, what I might expect to gain and sacrifice on the street? Here's my setup - - 2002 996 C2 - stock - 18" wheels (PS2's street, will mount PS Cups on 2nd set of wheels after next DE) - PSS9s dropped 30mm from stock height - can't go much lower, set at 5F/4R for Street, 1/1 for track - Pagid Orange Pads After/if I do the sways - I think my next modification will be harnesses and seats (safety 1st). Looking forward to any constructive comments!

eDoug, Couldn't have said it better myself. We're both in the same boat. Curious to hear more people's opinions and no problem 'hijacking' the thread

If you get the GT3 sways, they are adjustable and can dial to your needs on the street for oversteer and understeer. People here are saying you should get H&R because they are cheaper because you don't have to buy new adjustable and avoid clunking noises from the adj drop links. I feel differently because you have spent the money on PSS9s. If you have bought ROW MO30s or X74, then that is your suspension setup. If you bought coilovers, then GT3 sways compliment the coilover. You can PM Insite, Kevin, for adjustable drop links for around 50% of street the price. I have been running them for the past 2 years. They are race proven and have not heard any clunking. My car is dialed in where it is a street car but once you bring it over 4k rpm, it is a complete different animal with a lot of fun.

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FWIW, HR are also adjustable. For the 996, via the rear bar. I have had both, and you can dial the car in just fine without the front bar also being adjustable. Also, virtually everyone that DEs their car dials it in once and neer touches it again. IMO, the front GT3 sways with short drop links are not the optimal solution for the 996. You can achieve better results (including loaded suspension geometry) with (1) HR front bar and stock links, (2) front GT3 wheel carriers and GT3 sway bars, or 93) the new Tarett sway mounts with GT3 sway bars. -td

What about just going M030 sways? I've been pretty shocked at the elimination of understeer so far just from using them with the stock struts. My PSS9s go on in June. Definitely feel the pain regarding wife factor. I can tell the M030 sways are a little bit harsher in the bumps, but nothing a wife would notice. I can't comment on if the understeer is gone for autox or track, but just on spirited on ramps it seems to maybe even tend a touch to oversteer.

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Understood. I was offering OP full adjustability. His "mild to wild" is anybody's guess. I don't think he even knows. I adjusted my sways from full soft to one before full hard several weeks ago and love it. If I ever need to dial it back, I know I have many setting to choose from and will not upset other handling settings.

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Thanks for the thoughtful reply... Anyone know anything about the Tarett sways & drop link kits? Looks like a good alternate with 4 & 5 setting adjustability... Guess I could always soften them up when not at the track.... My last DE was in full wet conditions and I felt like the car was extremely neutral - had plenty of control over balance using only the throttle. I don't think I'd be comfortable with any more oversteer than I currently have dialed in... Okay, so last question is what will sway bars do for me if balance is good already? Crisper turn-in and flatter through the corners, hence slightly more traction -> slightly higher speeds? Again - wondering how much of an improvement I should expect for the $1k or so investment.

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Tarett provides the GT3 swaybar, not an independently engineered version. The updated drop link system is not listed on the website. Call Ira directly. Sway bars have 2 main functions: 1) controlling lateral weight transfer. This keeps the wheels working better during cornering resulting in a better balanced car able to set quicker - and ultimately going through and exiting a corner faster. One huge benifit of bigger sways is limiting body roll in chicanes, another benefit is reducing alignment (camber) changes during cornering. (2) controlling over/understeer on a macro level. For fine tuning, you should adjust you bump/rebound. Adjusting front/rear grip can be beneficial when you change tires widths or profiles. If your handling is already good, you don't necessarily need better sway bars. However, if you are running stock or ROW M030 sways, they are typically considered inadequate for heavy track use. The "bigger" bars are substantially stiffer, and mesh quite nicely with PSS9 (or other) suspensions. I would be very surprised if you upgraded sway bars (from stock or ROW M030) and did not notice a marked improvement. Keep in mind, the sways are just one component in a complex system that needs to be tuned properly. -td

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Ahh - I see now that I read the description on their website... will call them before making the move - seems like a great solution - and again, if I find them a little harsh on my local roads, then I can always soften them up. Link to Tarett Front Swaybar Kit Looks like $1,100 for this setup vs. about $600+ for the H&Rs, but seems like it's money well spent to get set up right. I'll also ask them about the prospect of the blade sways...

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Suncoast might be cheaper on the parts, even Tarett links: http://e-partssales.com/Merchant2/me...=996Suspension Also, you shouldn't notice much difference in harshness due to sway bars. Stiffer springs and tight bump is the primary culprit. -td

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Hey! - So I ordered the setup from Tarett this morning, GT3 sways front & rear with the Tarett drop links. He's still working on the blade-style bar for the rear, might be ready later this year. However, for my application, the GT3's are probably just fine - and about half the price. I would've used suncoast, could have saved a few $. But I'd rather throw my business to the smaller guy doing all the work, and by the time the shipping charges were negotiated, it was only about $11 more to go with Tarett directly. I'm happy to support small business! I've heard awesome things about Tarett by the way, great customer service, awesome products, and they stand behind everything 100%. Once I have them installed in a few weeks, I'll plan to repost. But I will say, that I've been extremely pleased with my upgrade path so far, the PSS9s were a sweet deal and the car looks and actually rides better than with the stock US suspension... I have a DE scheduled at CMP mid-May, so I can also post impressions after that event. Cheers....

pdobbs, I hope it`s ok to borrow your thread! I have same question for you guys. Curren setup: KW V3 Coilovers H&R ARB`s GT3 front lower control arms for camber MPSC`s Light weight wheels GT2 Brakes Performance alignment So what do you recomend for the next upgrades? I was considering rear dog bones, bumpsteer kit (front & rear) and monoball top mounts. Some thing else? Are there any use for monoball top mounts when I already have enough negative camber (F -2.6 & R-2.3)? Thanks!