Is this a reasonable Deal? '02 996

Folks- I am a long time lurker, 49 years old, and have wanted a 911 since I was 12. I am finally ready to buy a $30,000.00 or less used car, and recently found the following ride at my local Porsche dealer: 2002 996 Carrera 2 6 speed One owner, local trade in. Silver over Black Sport seats, which are in 90% condition, practically no wear. Interior overall is very good. HID no PSM Factory chrome rims with brand new P Zero Rossos all around Drives great. Motor is nice and strong. Transmission and clutch seem great. New engine from Porsche at 11,550 miles, with dealer receipt (warrantied IMS failure). Total miles = 39,000 most maintenance records includes fresh oil change, new exterior and cabin air filters The car has a recent PPI. No oil leaks or other IMS/RMS indicators. Oil filter looked good. The only PPI recommendation was for a new drive belt. (Dealer says drive belt is okay, and it would be "early" to change it now.) Clean CarFax, body is perfect except for a couple of stone chips on the front bumper. Dealer is asking $29,000, sounding like they will take $28,000. Decent deal? Also, dealer has offered me a 12 month/12,000 mile 3rd party warranty for $2000, which covers just about everything, but I am planning to "self insure."..... I really like this car overall, understand the RMS/IMS risks, and am wondering if the price sounds high, or okay. Thanks for any input. -David

Sounds like a good deal to me.

How long has the car been on the lot? Pics? Sounds low on options...I think its about 6-7K high......but it is at a dealer. Its a buyer market now. Offer 25K with the warranty included. Won't get if you don't ask. I don't think that would be a lowball offer.

Sounds good. The drive belt is about $50 and you can change it yourself with simple hand tools (sockets including a 24mm). I personally like PSM around the street which you noted this car does not have. It is a good safety net if you get too hot in a turn and/or hit a slippery/wet area. It does take the fun out sometimes; thus, some prefer no PSM. My engine had the IMS failure at 23,000 miles. Porsche paid for the remanufactured engine which feels stronger than the older one. My tech said these reman engines use an old or reconditioned block but has all new internal components including new A/C, alternator, power steering pump, etc. Instead of machines, one person assembles the reman engine. Whether true or not, I'm at 60,300 total miles and going strong. I did have two water pump leaks with this new engine. My extended warrany covered one, and I did the other myself. For $2,000 for your extended warranty, I would probably pass.

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+1 start low and be ready to buy also not saying the PPI was bad but for a couple hundred bucks I would get your own PPI somewhere other than the place that is sellign the car Welcome, you are about to have a life change

Wow, thanks folks. I appreciate the help. The PPI is from the local indie shop, and I have seen the report. I am certain it is legit, e.g. not manufactured by my dealer. I recently bought a CPO Audi A6 from this Porsche/Audi dealer. To the extent that you can get comfortable with a dealer, I am comfortable with this one. Overall, they have treated me well, and there has been no BS. I am planning to make an offer later this week, just before Christmas, to see if they willl part with it. To me, it seems like a good buy at $25,000-$26,000. For me, it is the right car, except for the lack of PSM. I'll tell you what, too. This car has all kinds of torque. When I test drove it, running third gear up in a highway merge, then a gear change to fourth, then tip the throttle, and the car lunges forward like a 'Vette that's done graduate work. Me likey.

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Having a relationship with a dealer is good to have going in...don't lead on that you had a sip of the Porsche koolaide before you buy it. Good Luck!

Sneaky Pete- It's the same color as the car in your Avatar!! I actually saw it BEFORE I bought the A6. One owner, a local physician, traded it in on a 997. I have been feigning disinterest (and grabbing Panorama back issues) all week, while at the dealership picking up Audi gear........... Do any of you folks have suggestions on how to make the offer? My experience with this dealership is that: 1) they aren't too greedy; 2) they need to make a specific amount of cash on the car; 3) I am not going to steal the car because, as far as Porsches go, it is a small dealership, and they are probably into the car for a fair amount..... On the other hand, I am planning to offer to buy right around Christmas Eve, so ir probably won't be a buying frenzy. I can walk away, but this is a nice example of a Carrera in my price range, and I will turn 49 on January 6th. I'm a straight up kind of guy. My plan is to just go in, sit down with the salesperson, make an offer to buy the car, come up a little in price to close the deal, and, if that doesn't work, walk away. The car would go right into storage until April. But, I'd best get on with it, right?

Sounds like your getting a Pcar...pics it never happened!

OR it never happened

Go in with a set range. Like $25,500 to $26,500 or $26,000 to $27,000 You could offer $26,000 and maintain that figure. See how they react; I assume they'll say they cannot do it, but they'll give you a counteroffer. Move up $500 up to your max and then walk. If they want the roll the car and it is within their range, they'll sell it. You may even walk and they may call you back the next day. You'll be surprised. Have fun and good luck.

I think it is a fair price, +- 2 or 3k may be. If you had bought it direct from the owner you might have be able to get a great deal at $24, but not much less. it is a desirable color combo. you got a new engine in it. I think if you can get it for $26 you got a great deal, at $27 it is pretty good, at $28 it is far, at $29 it is market value for a dealer purchase. In any case you are not getting ripped off at all. even at $29k if you 'love' the car, it is nothing to be fair. I took an extended warranty on mine with fidelity warranty services. you might want to look into it, if you are more the 'insured kind of guy' great car for the money, I bet you will nto regret it and will feel each day that it is a steal !

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we have a program for you Pete, you have the sign up sheets

Go to the dealer with a bank check in your pocket for $26500 and tell them that's your best offer....see what they will do. Have another check in your pocket for another $1000 just in case, maybe they'll play, maybe they won't. Good luck, hope you get the Porsche.This worked for me when I bought a 79SC from a Porsche dealer in the mid 90s...and I had to cough up the other grand to do the deal, but overall was very happy with the agreed upon price.

I just don't think $1k one way or another is that big a deal - particularly when you have found a car you like at a local dealer you have done business with. In the end so much of the final negotiation depends on what the dealer has in the car, including any reconditioning they had to do (dent wizard, wheel refurbish, etc.) and their advertising/finance costs... And they do get to make a profit! The new engine is a plus though no guarantee so the dealer warranty would be nice for a year. I'd offer them $27.5k or a bit less and demand a substantial discount on the warranty. The dealer has a lot of profit margin built in to the warranty and is probably more willing to discount that than the car. Good Luck!

good advice! shoot a little high on the car and low ball the warranty - once they know they have a deal they will play ball on the back end.....

OK, here is some shameless self advertising....but if I dont do it, nobody else will. For just a few thousand more......my 2003 is up for sale. The 2003 is the Mk 2 variant. Tons of options included (e.g., PSM) plus the gorgeous Porsche Sports Exhaust. https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...a-2-in-nj.html

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Pete, I think your nuts if you think that $28K for the car as described is $6-7k too high. It's already a very low mileage car, the PPI came out clean and its only got 28,000 miles on the motor. You honestly, believe $21,000 is reasonable? Sorry, if that were my car all $21k would be good for is a laugh.

I wouldn't pay $30K. I live in SF, and cars get a bit of a premium - my '02 996 C2 41K miles goes on the market this week. I should list it for $30K, but will likely put it out there at $27.5 (priced to sell, not sit), taking no less than $25K

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I am nutz......agreed. But who said car dealers are reasonable? They are not and never will be. They need to make money and make you believe that they are doing the buyer a huge favor. The buyer's job is to get the best possible deal. Thats it and pretty simple. 3 years ago I paid $29.5K for my car and it was not at a dealer. Dealer would have had it at 5K higher minimum. The prices are all over the place now. I also think that we are on both ends of the spectrum....the sale price will be somewhere in the middle. As long as the buyer is happy is all that counts.....and from the looks of it he will be real happy in a few days.

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Not disagreeing specifically, but I always try to give valuable and reasonable advice to a prospective buyer here on Rennlist as opposed to throwing out the most pie-in-the-sky optimistic possiblities. $27k for this car is probably a good deal. Does that mean that the buyer could get a lower price? Of course, but I would not want them to walk away mad from the dealer when their expectation of the greatest deal of a lifetime does not pan out. I think reality is the the most valuable advice. As you say though, prices are all over the place.

Paid $28.9k for mine: '02 C2 manual with PSM, 44k in perfect condition inside and out. Bought it in July 2009.

Getting a great deal can be a variant of timing, circumstance, psychology, luck just to name a few. Getting a good deal is a product of discipline, patience and understanding. Don't get trapped in simplistic thinking like, 'give a low-ball offer, they counter in the middle and you get a good deal'. Effective negotiation requires that the person who concedes feels good about the deal. If you low-ball the salesman, he will be insulted (even though he's a professional, he's human) or he simply won't take you seriously. Ego is a really big part of negotiating on cars, whether it be professional or private sellers. Ultimately, your ego needs to feel satisfied about the value of the car and what you paid. It doesn't matter what we think as there is always a better deal out there that may think you missed out on. And this from a mere grasshopper...

$25K

I'm just starting my 996 search, but the fact that it's a one owner car which should mean good records and good maintenance, would increase the value by a thousand or two for me. I am looking for an '02 to '04 996 preferably close to Houston though if anybody knows of one.

Good point, and nice cart.

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Not to jack this thread but since I am looking for the same example as 125 shifter is looking for and the OP luckily found, I found this example on ebay. It too has a recent engine replacement. I just wish I was ready with the funds to make a purchase! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...=STRK:MEWAX:IT As for the OP making the deal with the dealer, a good deal is when you find what you're looking for and you don't feel ripped off. I would go into the dealer 1 hour before closing at the end of the week or month and tell the sales rep to get his manager because you have brought your checkbook and you're ready to buy the car NOW. Pull out the checkbook, sit down and tell them you have someplace to go so no fooling around because if you don't buy theirs you have another to check out the next town over. Then offer them what you want to offer without lowballing. Personally, I don't see why they wouldn't take $26.5K to $27K. I'm guessing they would still be making about $1500 profit on it. Good luck and keep us posted!

25-27k is good

Geeforce, thanks for the link. I won't be spending $25K+ on ebay, but I will give the guy a call. I was trying to avoid a black car though since there are already three black cars in the garage!

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On the bright side if the going prices are higher than what I thought its a win win for all of us. Could it be the values of our 996"s are going back to where they should be? Hope so. To the OP......I hope you buy! You have waited long enough for your Pcar.

Another reference point... I bought my 2002 coupe with PSM and not much else in the way of options for $26.5K in July 2009. It had 70K miles, but a new factory motor at 30K miles. This was bought from a dealer in Bellingham WA. They had the car since October 2008 and they simply could not sell it. I tried to push them to $26K but they would not go there. Tires were ok, brakes were ok, trans and clutch were good. Aesthetically there was not a mark on it inside or out. It's been a great car.

Check out the buyers guide from Excellence magazine here: http://www.excellence-mag.com/resour...ide/1041874889 FWIW, I sold my '02 C4S with 61k miles a couple of months ago for $27k.

I think their is better deals to be had

It's like you found the same car that stumbled across. 14 months ago I purchased an 25K mile, 02, 6 speed, silver over met blue, no psm, factory engine replacement @ 10K due to leaking RMS and out of spec crank. The car has been a complete joy and no issues at all. "PSM is for pussies, learn how to drive". You'll be wishing for more power in a matter of time. I paid $29K for a near perfect car, no warranty, from a "P" dealer. Buy it you'll love it! -- I'm the same age, we aint gettin any younger.

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Where is Tim dammit! OH... yea, HEY, Welcome!!

Who me?

My 2 cents.... I have walked into the dealer with a cashiers check at my "out the door" goal and it worked two out of three times....

When I have played the "is this a good deal" here I have always had a couple people say it was too high. On the other hand, as some have said, what's a grand one way or the other. If you have done enough research you know when it's a good deal. Having said that, in my experience, dealers will negotiately substantially on used cars. I would look up wholesale KBB value and deduct 5-10% as what they paid for the car. Make your first offer at that number and see what happens. ALWAYS walk the first time. They'll call you if you are in the ball park. Good luck!

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No, he meant me! I now have to yell at the Newbie (Johnnyv1) for not posting pics, which I hate to do....... NOT!!!!! Johnny, welcome to Rennlist. It is customery for Newbies to tell us a little about their P-car and to post some pics. So you can consider this your "Newbie Initiation!" Come on Newbie, post the @#$%^&* pics! Ahhhh.... that felt good! Ed..... how did I do????

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Pay the man Shirley!

Another Point of reference... My buddy sold his 03 Coupe, 6 Speed, Heavily option (with Hard Back Seats), with 67K miles for $28K 2 Months ago. Prices are all over the place. I think around 26-27 is the right price.

If you like it and it 'speaks to you' get it. In an odd way, the 996 shape has grown on me. I used to think it too slabby and 'Jappy' looking and 'production' next to curvy 993 body shape. The 993 lines remind me of a buxom & voluptuous babe crammed into a short dress that's 1 size too small. The 996 never struck me in that manner nor ever caused me to do a double-take. However, after a couple years, the 996 body and roomier ergonomics look pretty good, even compared to the 997 - which to me, looks like Porsche tried to morph the 996 to look a little like a 993 and a little like a 996 - and failed, it's simply kind of a Franken-car in my mind. I think the 996 with a little more time will emerge as a pretty good car - especially if you pick up one of the 02' or newer 996's or any 996 with a Porsche re-man - you cant' go wrong.

Well ? did you get it? The dealer will call alot if you walked out.

I just bought it!!!!! From my local dealer. 2002 Carrera Coupe, 6 speed. 38,xxx miles Factory remanufactured engine due to RMS failure (w/ dealer installation receipt) @ 11,000 miles. Clean PPI. Great overall condition. Drives super strong, and scares me a little (my first PCar), for now!!!!!!!!!! Options: (X1) Arctic Silver Metalllic (AF) Black Leather (PO1) Comfort Package (PO2) Technic Package (P14) Heated seats (414) High Gloss 18" Turbo look wheels Brand New Pirelli Zero Rossos (M6A) Black mats, Porsche lettering (XPA) Thicker steering wheel (XSC) Porsche crest in head rests I should be picking it up on Thursday, 12/30/10. My rookie assessment is that this is a moderatetly optioned Carrera, no Bose or Sports seats or Aero, but it isn't a stripper tramp, either....Is that right? Tons of pics coming when I get the car home............ Thanks - David

Congrats David! Sounds like some great options. You are now in good company.

Great christmas present!

Sneaky Pete- Great color on your car. Is that the factory aero kit in your Avatar?

Congrats indeed - sounds a lot like my car and I gotta tell you...I love my car, it's great. Lower it if it isn't already, prefereably with a decent set of coilovers. It will both look and feel way better. Other than that. change the oil a lot and drive the snot out of it.

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Indeedy do! It is a factory Aero. The pic was taken at a DE earlier this year. Now that you have a Pcar you need to join PCA and get together with fellow Porsche nuts. A must is to get to know your car by doing some AutoX and DE's. The rules in place make the driving at these events very safe. It also makes you a safer driver in daily commuting. You will also have to use to the occasional question of what you paid from your friends and co-workers. Enjoy the car! And pics dammit PICS!

I am paying $27,900.00 for the car, with a dealer commitment to take care of some (sub $1000) maintenance stuff at or close to dealer cost........

Hey Sneaky Pete, may as well break me in ASAP..........

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Wow......last I heard that was from a high school girlfriend in 1980.

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Sorry Tim, I meant Tim the newbe hospitality dirrector Good Job, we miss you

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OMG I just about tossed beer out my nose !!

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Jeez, now that they've repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell guys are coming out of the woodwork everywhere, even the civilian world...

seriously... Larry47us is getting a bra OZ951 is talking about how he got Fisterd and Mawgie wants Sneaky Pete to break him in... ????? Im going to another forum.. LMAO :-)

awe - I found myself....

dam, did I say that... must have been drinking....

Forgot, I have Xenons, too. Also, you folks all piled on so quickly, drinkin' and cutting up, that my question never got answered. Is my new ride a lowly stripper, or somewhat well optioned? Note that I am posting on Christmas Eve. Starting to look like a PCar nut. My local track is Watkins Glen, less than 2 hours away. Sucks for me, I guess. I have printed the DE schedule for 2011................. Happy holidays to everyone. (Just gave myself a battery tender off of ebay for Christmas: CTEK 3300, bundled with cigarette lighter adapter and alligator clips for $80, shipped......) -Mawgie

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What does it matter now that you have bought the car. One has to assume its condition, price, color and options met with your approval or you would not have bought the car. Generally used car shoppers/buyers are most concerned with a car's price and its condition and less concerned with other things. This is not to say one takes the first good reasonably priced car he comes across in a godawful color or sans options that the shopper/buyer has deemed absolutely necessary for his needs/wants. The quick scan I made of the posts suggests you got a good car at a good price. Now get offline and get to know your new car. Talking time is over. It's driving time! Drive. Now. Sincerely, Macster.

I hear you, Macster. However, driving time is definiteley not now, at least here in Central NY! I anticipate picking the car up on Thursday, and am just hoping the weather will allow me to get it home (about 15 miles) with no weather trouble. Tha car won't be out for the season until early April. I arranged storage for the Carrera this afternoon, as my home garage is overbooked. Secure and dry self storage, at a reasonable price, but no power in my unit, so I will have to pull the battery, and keep it on a charger at home. My plan is to attend some DE events after I have the car sorted, with the primary objective to learn to sample some of the car's capabilities, and to become a much improved street driver. Happy New Year.

now THAT is a great plan !!